The definitive Mayweather/Pac article

Hauser excels himself yet again. The man tells it like it is :o


Boxing - Thomas Hauser - Mayweather-Pacquiao, PEDs, and Boxing


"Golden Boy can take the lead on the issue of PEDs in boxing and become a beacon of integrity by requiring its fighters to submit to Olympic-style drug testing before each major fight. And in order to fight on a Golden Boy card (remember; Golden Boy has a lot of dates on HBO), it could require opponents to do the same.

In fact, Golden Boy could start by testing Shane Mosley to protect Shane from unknowingly using PEDs again. It’s interesting how Shane looked very old when he fought Ricardo Mayorga in 2008 and then improved with age when he fought Antonio Margarito in 2009.

And speaking of age; let’s have a round of applause for another Golden Boy fighter; Bernard Hopkins. People talk a lot about what great shape Bernard is in and how remarkable it is that a fighter well into his forties can perform the way he does.

I consider Hopkins a great fighter. Other fighters have moved up in weight and excelled in the manner of Manny Pacquiao. But there is no precedent for a fighter performing as agelessly as Bernard has. I’m aware of no proof whatsoever that Hopkins has used illegal performance enhancing drugs at any time in his career. Of course, to my knowledge, Bernard hasn’t undergone USADA testing.

WBA heavyweight champion David Haye is another Golden Boy fighter. David was a cruiserweight less than two years ago. His body has filled out nicely since then. Very nicely. Now Haye wants to fight Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko. Vitali tested positive for a banned substance while training for the 1996 Olympics and was removed from the Ukrainian national team. He later acknowledged using steroids, saying that he had done so after aggravating an old leg injury previously sustained during a kick-boxing bout. Wladimir’s body is even more imposing than Vitali’s.

If Haye fights one of the Klitschko brothers, a Golden Boy-implemented USADA-like testing plan would assure the world that everything is on the up and up.

Will Golden Boy take the lead in across-the-board PED testing?

My guess is that there’s a better chance of Tiger Woods becoming Pope."

As I said on the other thread: it's merely a spin article to make everything rosy concerning allegations against Pacquiao. It's clears up nothing. Ariza says Pacquiao's just superstitious (surprise, surprise... I wait I thought he was scarred of needles :p), Nevada State Athletic Commission doctors state not much is known about steroids... and goes on to talk about how Pacquiao is boxing's golden child while Mayweather is fights nobody. Discredits De la Hoya's opinion regarding his encouragement for Manny to take the tests.... etc, etc, etc. An article that pretends to have no bias involved but it's obviously there. :( A long read too, I won't recommend it.

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Originally Posted by Greig

Hauser excels himself yet again. The man tells it like it is :o


Boxing - Thomas Hauser - Mayweather-Pacquiao, PEDs, and Boxing


"Golden Boy can take the lead on the issue of PEDs in boxing and become a beacon of integrity by requiring its fighters to submit to Olympic-style drug testing before each major fight. And in order to fight on a Golden Boy card (remember; Golden Boy has a lot of dates on HBO), it could require opponents to do the same.

In fact, Golden Boy could start by testing Shane Mosley to protect Shane from unknowingly using PEDs again. It’s interesting how Shane looked very old when he fought Ricardo Mayorga in 2008 and then improved with age when he fought Antonio Margarito in 2009.

And speaking of age; let’s have a round of applause for another Golden Boy fighter; Bernard Hopkins. People talk a lot about what great shape Bernard is in and how remarkable it is that a fighter well into his forties can perform the way he does.

I consider Hopkins a great fighter. Other fighters have moved up in weight and excelled in the manner of Manny Pacquiao. But there is no precedent for a fighter performing as agelessly as Bernard has. I’m aware of no proof whatsoever that Hopkins has used illegal performance enhancing drugs at any time in his career. Of course, to my knowledge, Bernard hasn’t undergone USADA testing.

WBA heavyweight champion David Haye is another Golden Boy fighter. David was a cruiserweight less than two years ago. His body has filled out nicely since then. Very nicely. Now Haye wants to fight Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko. Vitali tested positive for a banned substance while training for the 1996 Olympics and was removed from the Ukrainian national team. He later acknowledged using steroids, saying that he had done so after aggravating an old leg injury previously sustained during a kick-boxing bout. Wladimir’s body is even more imposing than Vitali’s.

If Haye fights one of the Klitschko brothers, a Golden Boy-implemented USADA-like testing plan would assure the world that everything is on the up and up.

Will Golden Boy take the lead in across-the-board PED testing?

My guess is that there’s a better chance of Tiger Woods becoming Pope."

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Great article that, long, but well worth the read. Unless of course your on the 'Pacman is a definate cheat, and I know because I'm an obsessed internet bumboy' Bandwagon.

Great article.

Personally I think Manny should be able to accept any drug test. But that really highlights the hypocrisy of Golden Boy and just what Mayweather's motives were for causing such a stink. Did he really want the fight? :-\

I disagree with the premise laid down in the peace. It sounds balanced, but it is in keeping with the trend of spots writers who hate PBF to the extent that they would like to see him risk his life and well being in order to sate their thirst for him to get his comeuppance. If Pacman had made the demand for hard testing, the opinions and views of these writers would be the complete reverse of what they are are today.

There is a biblical saying that goes, "Thou mayest conceal they sin by cunning art, but consciennce sits a silent witness in thine heart, that will distrub thy rest, they peace undo, because it is a judge, jury, and a prison too". The sports writers that are prepared to sacrfice the uplifting of the standard in drug testing in boxing to their deep and visceral craving to see Floyd Mayweather get beat up by any means necessary, have already entered that prison. I will not allow them to insult my intelligence with their circumlocutory ramblings. Floyd Mayweather asked Manny to join him in exposing themselves to a higher standard of testing before a fight. Manny said no way. How the hell, under those circumstances can Mayweather be blamed for the fight not coming off?

When USADA accused Marion Jones of using PEDs, she filed a lawsuit against them. The sport writers did not condemn USADA for depriving fans of seeing a good race. Should the US be accused of endangering global harmony and interaction by demanding higher democratic standards from nations prior to their involvement in some multinational activities? The US took that position with regard to the UN security council membership. You know what was the reaction of some of her critics? They responded that the US should demand those changes from some of her trade pardners if she really cared about democracy. Sounds familiar?

think about this, under the present normal boxing commission rules, the floyd-pacquiao could have already been made then why it's not being made?

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

Great article. All claims are backed by solid data .

Al Berstein and Thomas Hauser are two great boxing Journalist

Agree with you totally Miron - guys like Bernstein, Hauser, Mike Katz and George Kimball are people that boxing NEEDS.

Fantastic writers, and in Al's case broadcaster as well.

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Originally Posted by Greig

Agree with you totally Miron - guys like Bernstein, Hauser, Mike Katz and George Kimball are people that boxing NEEDS.

Fantastic writers, and in Al's case broadcaster as well.

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That's (Article) the complete picture IMO. He didn't insinuate in any way that Pac is innocent but made some examples of fighters with names and date's and their cases with prohibited substances.

I think he feels that he needs to add the many errors that GBP made during the negotiation, Oscar and Schaeffer made some very elementary mistakes, Cant they remember what they said just a few months ago? and totally look moronic making statements that is the complete opposite of what they said just a few months prior.


I just wish some of the guys can write as good as Bernstein and Hauser.

:coolclick: for the thread Greig :D

Thanks Miron.

I haven't seen the cool click smiley in years!!:D

It's an interesting viewpoint but let's not forget that Hauser has shown a propensity for dislike against Golden Boy in the past. The Judah-Mosley piece was interesting but I believe that was all Jin Mosley's fault. A Mosley-Mayweather matchup may be a little trying as far as how the testing goes.

After reading this very long article I'll just go over a couple of things. First off, I am a Pac fan but I like boxing better than any fighter and I like the truth better than boxing. So I truly keep it real as far as I see. With that said, this article was not fair or balanced. Both parties made bad statements that bit them later. Freddie Roach made a number of statements as to why Pac didn't like needles, blood drawn, etc and later shown to be apparently inaccurate. I am not condemning Pac and what he is doing can, and I hope, be truly natural. But as I bicker with fellow boxing fans I do not get offended for them thinking what they think because Pac is not exactly doing typical things since moving up. The author states what Pac is doing has been done before. Really? Maybe, but who are these fighters who did this before? Pac is the only fighter in boxing history to become world champ in 7 weight classes. In Pac's 5 fights before he started moving up in several weight classes he KO'd 2 of 5 opponents. Since Pac moved in 3 different weight classes in just 4 fights he has KO'd every opponent. 4 of 4. Pac has gotten stronger p4p and quicker since moving up. Even his conditioning coach states the quicker part. Its not the fact that Pac is beating the top guys at different weight classes but how he is doing it. He basically lost maybe 2 or 3 rounds in his 4 fights against bigger and mostly top fighters. Pac may be completely clean but it is asinine to think people are wrong for thinking otherwise. Clean, done before, or not what Pac is doing is at the very least almost never done. Even ousting proven steroid cheats. Achieving more than whats been done before in light of this being the steroid era. Thats where the speculation comes from. When Barry Bonds did what never had been done before by hitting 73 HRs,in the steroid era, if you weren't a die hard fan of Bonds you soon became suspicious. Why not? He ousted everyone even steroid cheats. The author also states what BHop is doing has never been done. WRONG. George Foreman. Since BHop has been 40 he has gone 4-3. Nothing exhilarating. George Foreman turned 40 and went 17-3. Not to mention going 9-0 as a 39 year old after coming off a 10 year retirement. None of this proves anybody is right in there speculation of Pac and since Pac will not accept the random blood tests no one can say he is proven clean. But this article definitely has a purpose of defending Pac and at the very least using misleading statements to do so.

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Originally Posted by blegit

After reading this very long article I'll just go over a couple of things. First off, I am a Pac fan but I like boxing better than any fighter and I like the truth better than boxing. So I truly keep it real as far as I see. With that said, this article was not neutral. I am not condemning Pac and what he is doing can, and I hope, be truly natural. But as I bicker with fellow boxing fans I do not get offended for them thinking what they think because Pac is not exactly doing typical things since moving up. The author states what Pac is doing has been done before. Really? Maybe, but who are these fighters who did this before? Pac is the only fighter in boxing history to become world champ in 7 weight classes. In Pac's 5 fights before he started moving up in several weight classes he KO'd 2 of 5 opponents. Since Pac moved in 3 different weight classes in just 4 fights he has KO'd every opponent. 4 of 4. Pac has gotten stronger p4p and quicker since moving up. Even his conditioning coach states the quicker part. Its not the fact that Pac is beating the top guys at different weight classes but how he is doing it. He basically lost maybe 2 or 3 rounds in his 4 fights against bigger and better fighters. Pac may be completely clean but it is asinine to think people are wrong for thinking otherwise. Clean, done before, or not what Pac is doing is at the very least almost never done. Even ousting proven steroid cheats. Thats where the speculation comes from. The author also states what BHop is doing has never been done. WRONG. George Foreman. Since BHop has been 40 he has gone 4-3. Nothing exhilarating. George Foreman turned 40 and went 17-3. Not to mention going 9-0 as a 39 year old after coming off a 10 year retirement. None of this proves anybody is right in there specualtion or their defending of Pac. But this article definitely has a purpose of defending Pac and at the very least using misleading statements to do so.

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Dude man give it up, you saying youre a Pac fan is like saying Bruce Lee is a Floyd fan. Almost all of your posts are about Floyd or something to do with 1 of FLoyd's prospective opponents. You ain't a boxing fan. But a fan of one fighter.
Back to the topic at hand. Since people are trying to discredit the writer. This guy is a pulitzer prize nominated writer, he ain't no nuthugger of anyone. The article is also very well researched. It's a neutral article. Just because it does not conform to your views, doesn't mean it's a shitty article or a shitty writer.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by blegit

After reading this very long article I'll just go over a couple of things. First off, I am a Pac fan but I like boxing better than any fighter and I like the truth better than boxing. So I truly keep it real as far as I see. With that said, this article was not neutral. I am not condemning Pac and what he is doing can, and I hope, be truly natural. But as I bicker with fellow boxing fans I do not get offended for them thinking what they think because Pac is not exactly doing typical things since moving up. The author states what Pac is doing has been done before. Really? Maybe, but who are these fighters who did this before? Pac is the only fighter in boxing history to become world champ in 7 weight classes. In Pac's 5 fights before he started moving up in several weight classes he KO'd 2 of 5 opponents. Since Pac moved in 3 different weight classes in just 4 fights he has KO'd every opponent. 4 of 4. Pac has gotten stronger p4p and quicker since moving up. Even his conditioning coach states the quicker part. Its not the fact that Pac is beating the top guys at different weight classes but how he is doing it. He basically lost maybe 2 or 3 rounds in his 4 fights against bigger and better fighters. Pac may be completely clean but it is asinine to think people are wrong for thinking otherwise. Clean, done before, or not what Pac is doing is at the very least almost never done. Even ousting proven steroid cheats. Thats where the speculation comes from. The author also states what BHop is doing has never been done. WRONG. George Foreman. Since BHop has been 40 he has gone 4-3. Nothing exhilarating. George Foreman turned 40 and went 17-3. Not to mention going 9-0 as a 39 year old after coming off a 10 year retirement. None of this proves anybody is right in there specualtion or their defending of Pac. But this article definitely has a purpose of defending Pac and at the very least using misleading statements to do so.

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Dude man give it up, you saying youre a Pac fan is like saying Bruce Lee is a Floyd fan. Almost all of your posts are about Floyd or something to do with 1 of FLoyd's prospective opponents. You ain't a boxing fan. But a fan of one fighter.
Back to the topic at hand. Since people are trying to discredit the writer. This guy is a pulitzer prize nominated writer, he ain't no nuthugger of anyone. The article is also very well researched. It's a neutral article. Just because it does not conform to your views, doesn't mean it's a shitty article or a shitty writer.

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Give what up? The truth? Speak intelligently about what I wrote. What did I say that was wrong? Lets break it down. I never said it was a shitty article or discredit the author's background. And it doesn't matter what a writer wins they are still human and susceptible to being wrong or partial. Be real. I am a Pac fan as I am of many fighters. I don't like Mayweather's act but I am merely a fan who doesn't know either guy. I am actually one of the guys who bashes Mayweather for his cherrypicking in the welterweight division and I get beat up by the Floyd die hards for pointing out facts. And Bruce Lee actually sided with Floyd on the testing situation. The only thing I have said bad towards Pac is about the testing situation and thats because die hard fans refuse to accept any wrong about Pac and go straight at bashing Mayweather. If you side with the truth its hard to sound like a Pac fan on here because everyone acts like he is God and PBF is the devil. One thing that gets me is some people think just because you are a fan of a fighter it means you have to ignore the truth of that fighter. I talk about Mayweather and I'm called a hater. I talk about Pac and now I'm not a fan. Hilarious. Well, I put boxing before any fighter's nuts. The sport has been my life since I was a kid. I pointed out what this writer was wrong about(BHop's and Pac's accomplishments) and backed it up with facts. Debate that. Not if I'm a fan of Pac. Are you a fan of Pac? Be honest, do you think he is wrong about anything in the Pac/PBF debacle? Both sides blew that fight for the fans its not just Mayweather's fault. Not a boxing fan??? Laughable. What you meant to say is I'm not a Pac nuthugger. I have been boxing, training, and coaching boxing accumulatively for over 21 years now. I guess I do that because I'm a Floyd fan and not a boxing fan. :rolleyes:

I really like Thomas Hauser, I've got a couple of his books but this article is a strange one. It starts off with Manny's personal trainer talking about what a unique athlete he isand how he's defying the ageing process. Go and google "Roger Clemens work ethic/special athlete" or "Barry Bonds age-defyingunique" and you'll get a million arse-kissing articles written by Pulitzer-prize winning American sports journalists before steroid-using exposure of Clemens/Bonds and then how-could-we-all-have-been-such-fools articles by the same writers excerpting their previous articles to show how they'd been fooled. Hauser is well aware of this, it's almost like he's repeating the cliche to let us know how he really feels.

Then you've got a whole load of history of steroids in boxing and the conclusion that, yes, it's probably quite widespread in boxing today and testing is a joke.

Then more about how dedicated Manny is in the gym, (so dedicated he spends half his time making films and records, campaining for election etc.) So far it's doing the cliche thing. It's almost like he's taking the piss out of Manny's steroid-free claims for his fellow sports journalists/whoever else is in on the joke.

The he changes tack, eventually echoes Al Bernstein making a false claim about when Mayweather started asking for random testing and uses this "fact" to try and make the case that Floyd killed the fight. Then he has a go at Oscar.

Definitely not a fair and balanced article and he's blamed Mayweather/GBP and exonerated Manny as much as he can while still leaving himself a little plenty-of-steroids-in-boxing and I-was-telling-you-he-was-juicing-in-a-knowing-way wiggle room to change his tune in future if Manny gets caught with a needle in his arse. You can't really blame these guys though. Manny is their biggest story and if he is caught or even badly damaged by speculation it damages boxing really badly.

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Originally Posted by Greig

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

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I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by Zilla

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Originally Posted by Greig

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

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I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

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Yeah, that whole bandwagon trip of "Mayweather didn't want the fight" is just ignorant and blind. If Mayweather didn't want the fight he wouldn't have agreed to the $10 million/lb. penalty. And he wouldn't have went to mediation about the random testing and even conceding to Pac a 14 day window. Pac's team called the fight off and signed for another fight. If Pac didn't want to do the testing thats fine. I will not accuse him of ducking anything. But lets not make it out to be Mayweather ducking the fight. They just couldn't agree.

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Originally Posted by Zilla

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

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If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing:rolleyes: PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

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Originally Posted by Greig

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Originally Posted by Zilla

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

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If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing:rolleyes: PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

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You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

The fights off...good. Screw both of them. The world doesn't revolve around floyd, no matter how much his haters with thier silly-ness try to keep him up there. Pac is fighting clottey. Where's the whole section dedicated to that. A fight that is happening. Man you guys hate (or really love) the guy this damn much ?? No wonder he's so rich. Why call this sport boxing. Just call it the ridiculous race to beat floyd any way we can, with anyone we can. Nevermind boxing is shorter.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Greig

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Originally Posted by Zilla

I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.

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If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing:rolleyes: PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

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You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

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No what I'm saying is that PED's have been around boxing for a long time - I just find it interesting that Floyd Mayweather jr all of a sudden wants to singlehandedly clean up the entire sport right before he's about to face a very live, very dangerous opponent.

To be honest, this whole article/issue has really rocked my belief in boxing. I mean, it seems like they are all in on this shit... It's depressing.

So ask yourself this Killersheep - does Floyd Mayweather Jr, really want to make a stand, clean up the sport and rid it of PEDs forever? Or did he see a very live, very dangerous opponent in front of him and think you know what, I'm going to fuck with this guy and see if I can't avoid fighting him?

Now, I see the fight as a pick em anyway - that's how highly I rate Floyd. But I can see how the inference could be drawn from Hauser that Floyd didn't really want the fight and I'm sure you can too.

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Originally Posted by Greig

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Greig

If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.

And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.

One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...


Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.

I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing:rolleyes: PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??

If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.

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You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.

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No what I'm saying is that PED's have been around boxing for a long time - I just find it interesting that Floyd Mayweather jr all of a sudden wants to singlehandedly clean up the entire sport right before he's about to face a very live, very dangerous opponent.

To be honest, this whole article/issue has really rocked my belief in boxing. I mean, it seems like they are all in on this shit... It's depressing.

So ask yourself this Killersheep - does Floyd Mayweather Jr, really want to make a stand, clean up the sport and rid it of PEDs forever? Or did he see a very live, very dangerous opponent in front of him and think you know what, I'm going to fuck with this guy and see if I can't avoid fighting him?

Now, I see the fight as a pick em anyway - that's how highly I rate Floyd. But I can see how the inference could be drawn from Hauser that Floyd didn't really want the fight and I'm sure you can too.

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We don't really know who's on shit, because the testing is ineffective.

I don't think Floyd is ducking at all, if he was he could of simply demanded a ridiculous purse split, done and done. At the end of the day Mayweather was still sitting at the table, while Pacquiao and his team signed against Clottey, Pacquiao's team were the ones that the mediator corrected for making false claims, Pacquiao's team were the one's making excuses to not take the tests. If Pacquiao really wanted the fight he could have taken the blood tests with 14 days remaining before the fight to recover (from something that does not need recovery).

What you are implying here is that Mayweather KNEW that Pacquiao would refuse the tests is that correct?

Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.

The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.


I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...

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Originally Posted by Greig

Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.

The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.


I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...

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But you have bias and that's speculation, when has Mayweather EVER started negotiations and not gone through with them? If he's ducking fighters, which admittedly there are some fighters out there he did duck, he simply didn't entertain the offers. Why make this big to-do at all? It would be a waste of money and time.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Greig

Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.

The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.


I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...

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But you have bias and that's speculation, when has Mayweather EVER started negotiations and not gone through with them? If he's ducking fighters, which admittedly there are some fighters out there he did duck, he simply didn't entertain the offers. Why make this big to-do at all? It would be a waste of money and time.

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coz floyd was forced to entertain the pacquiao fight due to fans/promoters demands

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Originally Posted by zbolt

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Greig

Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.

The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.


I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...

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But you have bias and that's speculation, when has Mayweather EVER started negotiations and not gone through with them? If he's ducking fighters, which admittedly there are some fighters out there he did duck, he simply didn't entertain the offers. Why make this big to-do at all? It would be a waste of money and time.

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coz floyd was forced to entertain the pacquiao fight due to fans/promoters demands

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To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?

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to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by erik_corrales

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Originally Posted by killersheep

To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?

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to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.

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That's conspiracy theory what you're saying right there.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by erik_corrales

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Originally Posted by killersheep

To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?

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to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.

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That's conspiracy theory what you're saying right there.

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and your point is? come on, this is boxing, the business.

all i'm saying is that's how it appears to be right now.

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Originally Posted by erik_corrales

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by erik_corrales

to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.

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That's conspiracy theory what you're saying right there.

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and your point is? come on, this is boxing, the business.

all i'm saying is that's how it appears to be right now.

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Really? It appears to you, that Mayweather would throw away most money he could make in a single event in his life, so that he could keep up his reputation to make WAAAYYY less money fighting other people?

Yeah Killersheep - he couldn't realistically ignore Pac after the way he destroyed Cotto.


Now, Mayweather has played this so well that he gets to avoid Pac with only half the world thinking he's at fault. Expertly played Mr Mayweather.


But what gets me is how so many people who are inside boxing - smart people like Bernstein, Hauser and Rafael (people with more insight into the inner workings of the game than you or I have) can think something is rotten here yet you completely disregard it.


I don't know what's going on, or what goes on inside Mayweathers head. But I've enjoyed boxing for 25 years without really worrying about drugs. Now thanks to Floyd, I'll look at every fight I've enjoyed in my life and wonder if someone was injecting HGH up their arse whilst in training, AND I get to miss out on the one fight I (and everyone else) is dying to see.

For that, I'm pissed off.

Boxing's drug testing procedures were FINE FOR EVERYBODY until a few fucking weeks ago. Nobody gave a shit.

Now if what Floyd has done cleans up the sport of boxing, then great. I just wish he could have waited til after March 13 before he did it.

Well here's the thing, people that are on FLoyd's side keeps on bringing up Shane Mosley and how he passed the drug tests with ease and therefore the boxing drug tests today are so useless. But isn't Mosley the exception and not the norm? What about Vargas? What about Golota? What about Botha? What about Whitaker? What about Jones Jr? What about JCC Jr? And the lists of boxers caught with PEDs or recreational drugs are long. Is the system perfect? No, but it's not as useless and incompetent as some people are making it seem.

And btw what happened with the emails that Pacquiao tested dirty and tried to kept it a secret? People here and the media were saying that these were facts. No those were not facts but hearsay rumors. I'm still waiting on the emails. And then you have Michael Moorer who supposedly told Team Floyd that Pac was using but then went on record and say not true.

I was really hard on Pacquiao for awhile for not submitting to the tests, but where is the evidence that he's on something special?

I don't want bullshit hearsay rumors and innuendos but hardcore evidence and facts. Can anyone here provide them? Again what happened to the emails?

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Well here's the thing, people that are on FLoyd's side keeps on bringing up Shane Mosley and how he passed the drug tests with ease and therefore the boxing drug tests today are so useless. But isn't Mosley the exception and not the norm? What about Vargas? What about Golota? What about Botha? What about Whitaker? What about Jones Jr? What about JCC Jr? And the lists of boxers caught with PEDs or recreational drugs are long. Is the system perfect? No, but it's not as useless and incompetent as some people are making it seem.

And btw what happened with the emails that Pacquiao tested dirty and tried to kept it a secret? People here and the media were saying that these were facts. No those were not facts but hearsay rumors. I'm still waiting on the emails. And then you have Michael Moorer who supposedly told Team Floyd that Pac was using but then went on record and say not true.

I was really hard on Pacquiao for awhile for not submitting to the tests, but where is the evidence that he's on something special?

I don't want bullshit hearsay rumors and innuendos but hardcore evidence and facts. Can anyone here provide them? Again what happened to the emails?

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Those issues were made to demolish Pac. Just for them to have something to say that they have a proof.:-\

I understand what Grieg is saying. I think it's quite telling that so many people involved with boxing blame Mayweather. It seems as though widespread drug use is so common/known that they are surprised Mayweather's mob even brought it up - hence Floyd didn't want the fight.

Shows just how polluted the boxing business is.

I understand what Grieg is saying. I think it's quite telling that so many people involved with boxing blame Mayweather. It seems as though widespread drug use is so common/known that they are surprised Mayweather's mob even brought it up - hence Floyd didn't want the fight.

Shows just how polluted the boxing business is.

Anyone who thinks Floyd is scared of fighting Manny Pacquiao for 40 million is a retard.

Floyd was calling out Oscar DelaHoya at 154 back when he was a 130lb'er and Larry Merchant was laughing his ass off at the thought.

Floyd is scared of one thing - Money (or lack there of)

Bunch of conspiracy theorists :rolleyes: What happens if the Mosley fight comes off? Mayweather was scared of Pac but not Mosley which is a much harder fight for him?

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Anyone who thinks Floyd is scared of fighting Manny Pacquiao for 40 million is a retard.

Floyd was calling out Oscar DelaHoya at 154 back when he was a 130lb'er and Larry Merchant was laughing his ass off at the thought.

Floyd is scared of one thing - Money (or lack there of)

Bunch of conspiracy theorists :rolleyes: What happens if the Mosley fight comes off? Mayweather was scared of Pac but not Mosley which is a much harder fight for him?

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Mosley will be too old, not the same fighter he was, just looking for one last big payday etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Mosley will be too old, not the same fighter he was, just looking for one last big payday etc. etc.

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pushed into a corner, etc etc;D

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Anyone who thinks Floyd is scared of fighting Manny Pacquiao for 40 million is a retard.

Floyd was calling out Oscar DelaHoya at 154 back when he was a 130lb'er and Larry Merchant was laughing his ass off at the thought.

Floyd is scared of one thing - Money (or lack there of)

Bunch of conspiracy theorists :rolleyes: What happens if the Mosley fight comes off? Mayweather was scared of Pac but not Mosley which is a much harder fight for him?

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HA HA HA!

The Mosley that was getting outboxed by Mayorga? Or the Mosley that had a punching bag with no defense to hit in Margarito?

If Cotto could outbox Mosley, then you are right...Floyd doesn't have a chance ;D


The one risk Mosley brings to the fight is he still have one-punch KO power. Yeah he looked great against the polar-opposite style of Mayweather in Margarito, but Mosley will be playing a completely different game against floyd.


Pacquiao is/would have been a much harder fight for Mayweather. No ifs and buts about it