The definitive Mayweather/Pac article

[erik_corrales]

To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?

to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.

That's conspiracy theory what you're saying right there.

and your point is? come on, this is boxing, the business.

all i'm saying is that's how it appears to be right now.

[killersheep]

to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.

That's conspiracy theory what you're saying right there.

and your point is? come on, this is boxing, the business.

all i'm saying is that's how it appears to be right now.

Really? It appears to you, that Mayweather would throw away most money he could make in a single event in his life, so that he could keep up his reputation to make WAAAYYY less money fighting other people?

[Greig]

Yeah Killersheep - he couldn't realistically ignore Pac after the way he destroyed Cotto.


Now, Mayweather has played this so well that he gets to avoid Pac with only half the world thinking he's at fault. Expertly played Mr Mayweather.


But what gets me is how so many people who are inside boxing - smart people like Bernstein, Hauser and Rafael (people with more insight into the inner workings of the game than you or I have) can think something is rotten here yet you completely disregard it.


I don't know what's going on, or what goes on inside Mayweathers head. But I've enjoyed boxing for 25 years without really worrying about drugs. Now thanks to Floyd, I'll look at every fight I've enjoyed in my life and wonder if someone was injecting HGH up their arse whilst in training, AND I get to miss out on the one fight I (and everyone else) is dying to see.

For that, I'm pissed off.

Boxing's drug testing procedures were FINE FOR EVERYBODY until a few fucking weeks ago. Nobody gave a shit.

Now if what Floyd has done cleans up the sport of boxing, then great. I just wish he could have waited til after March 13 before he did it.

[generalbulldog]

Well here's the thing, people that are on FLoyd's side keeps on bringing up Shane Mosley and how he passed the drug tests with ease and therefore the boxing drug tests today are so useless. But isn't Mosley the exception and not the norm? What about Vargas? What about Golota? What about Botha? What about Whitaker? What about Jones Jr? What about JCC Jr? And the lists of boxers caught with PEDs or recreational drugs are long. Is the system perfect? No, but it's not as useless and incompetent as some people are making it seem.

And btw what happened with the emails that Pacquiao tested dirty and tried to kept it a secret? People here and the media were saying that these were facts. No those were not facts but hearsay rumors. I'm still waiting on the emails. And then you have Michael Moorer who supposedly told Team Floyd that Pac was using but then went on record and say not true.

I was really hard on Pacquiao for awhile for not submitting to the tests, but where is the evidence that he's on something special?

I don't want bullshit hearsay rumors and innuendos but hardcore evidence and facts. Can anyone here provide them? Again what happened to the emails?

[brucelee]

Well here's the thing, people that are on FLoyd's side keeps on bringing up Shane Mosley and how he passed the drug tests with ease and therefore the boxing drug tests today are so useless. But isn't Mosley the exception and not the norm? What about Vargas? What about Golota? What about Botha? What about Whitaker? What about Jones Jr? What about JCC Jr? And the lists of boxers caught with PEDs or recreational drugs are long. Is the system perfect? No, but it's not as useless and incompetent as some people are making it seem.

And btw what happened with the emails that Pacquiao tested dirty and tried to kept it a secret? People here and the media were saying that these were facts. No those were not facts but hearsay rumors. I'm still waiting on the emails. And then you have Michael Moorer who supposedly told Team Floyd that Pac was using but then went on record and say not true.

I was really hard on Pacquiao for awhile for not submitting to the tests, but where is the evidence that he's on something special?

I don't want bullshit hearsay rumors and innuendos but hardcore evidence and facts. Can anyone here provide them? Again what happened to the emails?

Those issues were made to demolish Pac. Just for them to have something to say that they have a proof.

[sanj16]

Well here's the thing, people that are on FLoyd's side keeps on bringing up Shane Mosley and how he passed the drug tests with ease and therefore the boxing drug tests today are so useless. But isn't Mosley the exception and not the norm? What about Vargas? What about Golota? What about Botha? What about Whitaker? What about Jones Jr? What about JCC Jr? And the lists of boxers caught with PEDs or recreational drugs are long. Is the system perfect? No, but it's not as useless and incompetent as some people are making it seem.

And btw what happened with the emails that Pacquiao tested dirty and tried to kept it a secret? People here and the media were saying that these were facts. No those were not facts but hearsay rumors. I'm still waiting on the emails. And then you have Michael Moorer who supposedly told Team Floyd that Pac was using but then went on record and say not true.

I was really hard on Pacquiao for awhile for not submitting to the tests, but where is the evidence that he's on something special?

I don't want bullshit hearsay rumors and innuendos but hardcore evidence and facts. Can anyone here provide them? Again what happened to the emails?

Those issues were made to demolish Pac. Just for them to have something to say that they have a proof.

And the proof Pac is not on PEDs is............
Oh thats right he passed all the other tests that numerous experts have said are a joke. The whole saga could have been bi-passed and PBF left looked stupid if Manny just said fine. But instead we had a whole range of constantly changing reasons for why he can't.
I'm fully behind the legal system of innocent until proven guilty and that is the only way that it can work, but I'm not naive/ stupid enough to believe that everyone that is found not guilty is innocent.

[sanj16]

Well here's the thing, people that are on FLoyd's side keeps on bringing up Shane Mosley and how he passed the drug tests with ease and therefore the boxing drug tests today are so useless. But isn't Mosley the exception and not the norm? What about Vargas? What about Golota? What about Botha? What about Whitaker? What about Jones Jr? What about JCC Jr? And the lists of boxers caught with PEDs or recreational drugs are long. Is the system perfect? No, but it's not as useless and incompetent as some people are making it seem.

And btw what happened with the emails that Pacquiao tested dirty and tried to kept it a secret? People here and the media were saying that these were facts. No those were not facts but hearsay rumors. I'm still waiting on the emails. And then you have Michael Moorer who supposedly told Team Floyd that Pac was using but then went on record and say not true.

I was really hard on Pacquiao for awhile for not submitting to the tests, but where is the evidence that he's on something special?

I don't want bullshit hearsay rumors and innuendos but hardcore evidence and facts. Can anyone here provide them? Again what happened to the emails?

If someone won't take the test, how are you meant to prove they are cheating? Everyone agree that PED's are probably a problem in boxing. Where better to change the standard than in the biggest fight in history?
It is precisely because PBF is facing "a very live, very dangerous opponent" that he is demanding more stringent testing. What is wrong with that.
If you were going into this fight with your entire reputation and legacy on the line against someone you thought may be on PED's, you wouldn't want to use the test that would prevent him from using, or would you just go i there anyway?
As for the idea that Manny doesn't want to give him the upper hand! If I was going into a fight and my opponent said that I was so good that the only explanation was that I was on PEDs, that would be a huge boost to my confidence. I get the advantage by saying I'll test anytime any where, unless I was............
Hell I could have won the Nobel prize in Maths but I just didn't want to go that way. Because I didn't, you can't prove that I couldn't have.

[generalbulldog]

Well here's the thing, people that are on FLoyd's side keeps on bringing up Shane Mosley and how he passed the drug tests with ease and therefore the boxing drug tests today are so useless. But isn't Mosley the exception and not the norm? What about Vargas? What about Golota? What about Botha? What about Whitaker? What about Jones Jr? What about JCC Jr? And the lists of boxers caught with PEDs or recreational drugs are long. Is the system perfect? No, but it's not as useless and incompetent as some people are making it seem.

And btw what happened with the emails that Pacquiao tested dirty and tried to kept it a secret? People here and the media were saying that these were facts. No those were not facts but hearsay rumors. I'm still waiting on the emails. And then you have Michael Moorer who supposedly told Team Floyd that Pac was using but then went on record and say not true.

I was really hard on Pacquiao for awhile for not submitting to the tests, but where is the evidence that he's on something special?

I don't want bullshit hearsay rumors and innuendos but hardcore evidence and facts. Can anyone here provide them? Again what happened to the emails?

If someone won't take the test, how are you meant to prove they are cheating? Everyone agree that PED's are probably a problem in boxing. Where better to change the standard than in the biggest fight in history?
It is precisely because PBF is facing "a very live, very dangerous opponent" that he is demanding more stringent testing. What is wrong with that.
If you were going into this fight with your entire reputation and legacy on the line against someone you thought may be on PED's, you wouldn't want to use the test that would prevent him from using, or would you just go i there anyway?
As for the idea that Manny doesn't want to give him the upper hand! If I was going into a fight and my opponent said that I was so good that the only explanation was that I was on PEDs, that would be a huge boost to my confidence. I get the advantage by saying I'll test anytime any where, unless I was............
Hell I could have won the Nobel prize in Maths but I just didn't want to go that way. Because I didn't, you can't prove that I couldn't have.

Sorry the burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused. I can say that you like to touch little kids like Michael Jackson and Gary Glitter and that if you don't take this pedophile test then you are guilty is not proof especially if you weren't suspected of it before.

BTW I'm still waiting for emails that said Pacquiao tested dirty and wanted to cover it up. I'm still waiting for these so called hard evidence. So where is it? It's been practically a month already. Can you answer me?

For a while I thought maybe the guy is on something, then it dawn on me that most of this shit was hearsay rumors like the emails and Floyds dad starting the rumors because his fighter Hatton got sparked out in 2 rounds.

[sanj16]

Well here's the thing, people that are on FLoyd's side keeps on bringing up Shane Mosley and how he passed the drug tests with ease and therefore the boxing drug tests today are so useless. But isn't Mosley the exception and not the norm? What about Vargas? What about Golota? What about Botha? What about Whitaker? What about Jones Jr? What about JCC Jr? And the lists of boxers caught with PEDs or recreational drugs are long. Is the system perfect? No, but it's not as useless and incompetent as some people are making it seem.

And btw what happened with the emails that Pacquiao tested dirty and tried to kept it a secret? People here and the media were saying that these were facts. No those were not facts but hearsay rumors. I'm still waiting on the emails. And then you have Michael Moorer who supposedly told Team Floyd that Pac was using but then went on record and say not true.

I was really hard on Pacquiao for awhile for not submitting to the tests, but where is the evidence that he's on something special?

I don't want bullshit hearsay rumors and innuendos but hardcore evidence and facts. Can anyone here provide them? Again what happened to the emails?

If someone won't take the test, how are you meant to prove they are cheating? Everyone agree that PED's are probably a problem in boxing. Where better to change the standard than in the biggest fight in history?
It is precisely because PBF is facing "a very live, very dangerous opponent" that he is demanding more stringent testing. What is wrong with that.
If you were going into this fight with your entire reputation and legacy on the line against someone you thought may be on PED's, you wouldn't want to use the test that would prevent him from using, or would you just go i there anyway?
As for the idea that Manny doesn't want to give him the upper hand! If I was going into a fight and my opponent said that I was so good that the only explanation was that I was on PEDs, that would be a huge boost to my confidence. I get the advantage by saying I'll test anytime any where, unless I was............
Hell I could have won the Nobel prize in Maths but I just didn't want to go that way. Because I didn't, you can't prove that I couldn't have.

Sorry the burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused. I can say that you like to touch little kids like Michael Jackson and Gary Glitter and that if you don't take this pedophile test then you are guilty is not proof especially if you weren't suspected of it before.

BTW I'm still waiting for emails that said Pacquiao tested dirty and wanted to cover it up. I'm still waiting for these so called hard evidence. So where is it? It's been practically a month already. Can you answer me?

For a while I thought maybe the guy is on something, then it dawn on me that most of this shit was hearsay rumors like the emails and Floyds dad starting the rumors because his fighter Hatton got sparked out in 2 rounds.

If your doing something extreme and arn't will to rule out the obvious then people will start talking. Using your very own example, if your child's baby sitter has been strongly accused of of being a paedo and everyone is talking about it. If there was a test that they could take, say a lie detector, that would show that they are innocent, and they refused for whatever reason, would you leave your kids with them?
I work in the ED, and if someone is accused of alcohol or drug taking and they refuse a test, then they are viewed to be guilty.
Anyone coming in following an MVA gets a blood alcohol level, even if they deny drinking or have never failed a alcohol test before

[fan johnny]

If someone won't take the test, how are you meant to prove they are cheating? Everyone agree that PED's are probably a problem in boxing. Where better to change the standard than in the biggest fight in history?
It is precisely because PBF is facing "a very live, very dangerous opponent" that he is demanding more stringent testing. What is wrong with that.
If you were going into this fight with your entire reputation and legacy on the line against someone you thought may be on PED's, you wouldn't want to use the test that would prevent him from using, or would you just go i there anyway?
As for the idea that Manny doesn't want to give him the upper hand! If I was going into a fight and my opponent said that I was so good that the only explanation was that I was on PEDs, that would be a huge boost to my confidence. I get the advantage by saying I'll test anytime any where, unless I was............
Hell I could have won the Nobel prize in Maths but I just didn't want to go that way. Because I didn't, you can't prove that I couldn't have.

Sorry the burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused. I can say that you like to touch little kids like Michael Jackson and Gary Glitter and that if you don't take this pedophile test then you are guilty is not proof especially if you weren't suspected of it before.

BTW I'm still waiting for emails that said Pacquiao tested dirty and wanted to cover it up. I'm still waiting for these so called hard evidence. So where is it? It's been practically a month already. Can you answer me?

For a while I thought maybe the guy is on something, then it dawn on me that most of this shit was hearsay rumors like the emails and Floyds dad starting the rumors because his fighter Hatton got sparked out in 2 rounds.

If your doing something extreme and arn't will to rule out the obvious then people will start talking. Using your very own example, if your child's baby sitter has been strongly accused of of being a paedo and everyone is talking about it. If there was a test that they could take, say a lie detector, that would show that they are innocent, and they refused for whatever reason, would you leave your kids with them?
I work in the ED, and if someone is accused of alcohol or drug taking and they refuse a test, then they are viewed to be guilty.
Anyone coming in following an MVA gets a blood alcohol level, even if they deny drinking or have never failed a alcohol test before

That is just like an educator to state the obvious. It's common sense and not the behavior of someone with something to hide. Not only that, it's not an accurate scenario. If my neighbor was shot to death, why the hell would I let the neighbor watch go through my house to look for a gun when I don't even fukn own one. Besides, as a boxer, I would have beat his ass to death rather than shoot him. I'd tell their dumb ass to go to the police and ask them to get a search warrant.

[generalbulldog]

If someone won't take the test, how are you meant to prove they are cheating? Everyone agree that PED's are probably a problem in boxing. Where better to change the standard than in the biggest fight in history?
It is precisely because PBF is facing "a very live, very dangerous opponent" that he is demanding more stringent testing. What is wrong with that.
If you were going into this fight with your entire reputation and legacy on the line against someone you thought may be on PED's, you wouldn't want to use the test that would prevent him from using, or would you just go i there anyway?
As for the idea that Manny doesn't want to give him the upper hand! If I was going into a fight and my opponent said that I was so good that the only explanation was that I was on PEDs, that would be a huge boost to my confidence. I get the advantage by saying I'll test anytime any where, unless I was............
Hell I could have won the Nobel prize in Maths but I just didn't want to go that way. Because I didn't, you can't prove that I couldn't have.

Sorry the burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused. I can say that you like to touch little kids like Michael Jackson and Gary Glitter and that if you don't take this pedophile test then you are guilty is not proof especially if you weren't suspected of it before.

BTW I'm still waiting for emails that said Pacquiao tested dirty and wanted to cover it up. I'm still waiting for these so called hard evidence. So where is it? It's been practically a month already. Can you answer me?

For a while I thought maybe the guy is on something, then it dawn on me that most of this shit was hearsay rumors like the emails and Floyds dad starting the rumors because his fighter Hatton got sparked out in 2 rounds.

If your doing something extreme and arn't will to rule out the obvious then people will start talking. Using your very own example, if your child's baby sitter has been strongly accused of of being a paedo and everyone is talking about it. If there was a test that they could take, say a lie detector, that would show that they are innocent, and they refused for whatever reason, would you leave your kids with them?
I work in the ED, and if someone is accused of alcohol or drug taking and they refuse a test, then they are viewed to be guilty.
Anyone coming in following an MVA gets a blood alcohol level, even if they deny drinking or have never failed a alcohol test before

So what Pacquiao doing is extreme in boxing? Do you know your boxing history? So what Ray Robinson, Armstrong, Ted Kid Lewis were doing were extreme? How about a modern great like Duran? Ever seen his fights with Moore and Barkley? What weight did Duran start at? How about 122.

BTW, you never answered me this question. Where is the hardcore evidence against Pacquiao? Not hearsay rumors, not innuendo, but hardcore evidence. As in someone in his camp with testimonial evidence. Physical evidence with needles lying around. And oh yeah what happened to the emails that Teddy Atlas reported as fact that Pacqiao and his people asked Mayweather to cover up for him to save boxing.

So where are the emails? Surely if let's say the New York Times can uncover things like the Pentagon Papers with regards to the Vietnam War surely they can come up with emails that the sports biggest draw was asking people to cover up his dirty drug secrets. Teddy Atlas reported that a reporter of teh NY Times saw the emails. The NY Times has a very strong reputation when it comes to journalistic integrity.

So let me ask again. Where are the emails? Where is the hard evidence? (I have a feeling another bullshit excuse is on the way)

[JJson]

So, If he wasn't afraid to make the fight, what do you call it?

Again, Garbeled logic. You claim that we cannot judge Manny based on his refusal to take the test, and in the very stream of thought judge that PBF is scared to fight Manny because he advocated that they both be amenable to a testing regimine that can be applied randomly. Like I said in many previous posts, the quality of logical discussion on boxing has been degraded down several levels by the acrobatic linguistics of MP sycophants. Their visceral hatred for PBF has created a kind of madness that makes logic elusive in their efforts to make him the devil and Manny the angel. But that is history, the PBF always become the devil for those who envy their prowess and reject their right to be assertive.

[Hornfinger]

So, If he wasn't afraid to make the fight, what do you call it?

Again, Garbeled logic. You claim that we cannot judge Manny based on his refusal to take the test, and in the very stream of thought judge that PBF is scared to fight Manny because he advocated that they both be amenable to a testing regimine that can be applied randomly. Like I said in many previous posts, the quality of logical discussion on boxing has been degraded down several levels by the acrobatic linguistics of MP sycophants. Their visceral hatred for PBF has created a kind of madness that makes logic elusive in their efforts to make him the devil and Manny the angel. But that is history, the PBF always become the devil for those who envy their prowess and reject their right to be assertive.

Great post

Both fighters made their demands.

Why wasn't Pacquiao chastized when he called for $10,000,000 for every pound over weight? Pac's team did this either to play head games, ensure an even fight or hope that Floyd wouldn't go for it and not except the fight.


Floyd made his demands. He did this to either play head games, ensure an even fight or hope that Pac wouldn't go for it and not except the fight.


They are both as good/bad as each other depending how you look at it.


My personal opinion though is I don't care who the athlete is but if you're at the top of your sport earning this kind of money you shouldn't be refusing testing.