Rewatched Cotto vs Pac

Just re-watched this fight around 10 mins ago and I remember watching the first two rounds and thinking wow cotto could win this, this was the same thought I had the first time i watched it. He had the jab going and was being quite effective with his power shots. But it all came down to Pac could handle cottos shots but cotto couldnt take pacs all night.

I think the theory everyone has had ever since Pac was even rumoured to fight hatton early last yr was that pac had the style to beat anyone but would not carry his speed or power up in weight and could not take punishment at a higher weight. Proven wrong in every sense. I was one who picked Cotto to stop Pac but this was an impressive performance none the less. Just to watch somebody punch the fight out of cotto was just something to be witnessed, even with Margarito cotto tried to fight back but Cotto was forced to retreat and dance for half the fight trying to survive. Clottey is in trouble, I had thought Clottey may be a tough fight for pac but now I have massive doubts. Pac will throw all night, he wont miss much and he will hit you 5 times to your 1 and those punches are way to strong to absorb all night.

Clottey's defence which is very good, might turn out to be his weakness against Pac. He just cannot afford to cover up like a tortoise because Manny will just keep on throwing a hundred punches a round. He can't win like that, so IMO he really needs to be more offensive minded and try to hurt Manny somehow. That will involve more risk of getting hurt himself, but if he wants to win the fight it needs to be done. He will be much bigger and stronger than Manny, but he probably won't be able to impose it. I just can't see him changing all the habits of a lifetime to fight Manny Pac.

Thats right, praise the dirty little cheater;D

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Originally Posted by miles

Clottey's defence which is very good, might turn out to be his weakness against Pac. He just cannot afford to cover up like a tortoise because Manny will just keep on throwing a hundred punches a round. He can't win like that, so IMO he really needs to be more offensive minded and try to hurt Manny somehow. That will involve more risk of getting hurt himself, but if he wants to win the fight it needs to be done. He will be much bigger and stronger than Manny, but he probably won't be able to impose it. I just can't see him changing all the habits of a lifetime to fight Manny Pac.

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True, unless hes been training, blocking side shots with the elbows and fireing straight off the blocks.

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Originally Posted by ross

Thats right, praise the dirty little cheater;D

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Im not a pac fan just giving him his dues on that fight, whether or not he took steroids or whatever it was an impressive performance.

He's awesome isn't he! At the time I was truly amazed, both against ODLH and Cotto.

That's why I'm seriously gutted about the PED thing. Whether it's true or not I feel like we've been robbed of something special.

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Originally Posted by Conrad

He's awesome isn't he! At the time I was truly amazed, both against ODLH and Cotto.

That's why I'm seriously gutted about the PED thing. Whether it's true or not I feel like we've been robbed of something special.

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The PED Pac is on is called A-Side Meth. A-side Meth can make you impervious to .38 and .45 caliber bullets. This drug was used by the Flip military to fight against the American troops that's why Flip people whether on the battlefield of war or inside a boxing ring can keep on coming forward. This drug is only exclusive to the Phillipines, Pacquiao's home country.

This is according to Roger and Floyd Sr. Pretty cool eh?;D

Had you of told me 2years ago that cotto would get beat at 147 by a featherweight i would of laughed so hard i probably wouldnt be here today

I just cannot fathom how manny pacquiao mantains his speed at this level and yet punches like a middleweight:o:o:o

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

Had you of told me 2years ago that cotto would get beat at 147 by a featherweight i would of laughed so hard i probably wouldnt be here today

I just cannot fathom how manny pacquiao mantains his speed at this level and yet punches like a middleweight:o:o:o

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PED

Clottey is too slow to get to Pac and he's not good enough of a boxer to outbox Pac either.

Clottey is second best to Pac in pretty much every aspect of the game but he can do something Pac cant - Fight dirty.

If he follows the blueprint set by Sanchez it shows how an inferior fighter can get a better fighter off his game. Pac didnt win the fight with Sanchez so if Clottey wants to avoid what seems like an inevitable defeat he needs to bend the rules abit and once Pac is out of his stride he can get to work.

The more I study Clottey the more I am leaning towards a stoppage. Clottey's defense is all wrong against Pac. Pac feasts well on guys who are easy to find. Clottey is the epitome of a stationary target. Clottey doesn't push himself or go for broke and that is what he has to do. Clottey has to impose his size but he never does. There is no advantage in being bigger if you don't impose it. In fact it will be a disadvantage because he will be a bigger target. Against Cotto when the heat was on Clottey was looking for a way out. He wanted to get out of the heated moments. Against Pac he will have many more heated moments and Pac won't be there as often as Cotto so Clottey's heart will be overly tested and he will get overly frustrated. Pac may even hurt Clottey but I will say he peppers Clottey mostly en route to a De La Hoya-like TKO. Pac TKO Clottey around 10.

Cotto did well but really was damaged goods, his punch resistance was shot after Marg. He barely survived Clottey and had to do the same retreating. A pre-version of Cotto would have beaten Cotto with ease. The uppercut punch Pac put cotto down was very good. I too was finally convinced Pac was a great fighter, until the allegations.

Clottey might show 20 pounds heavier come fight night. That only means one thing.


He's a big target. He will eat lots of punches that he won't be able to see. They're gonna come too fast from weird angles. I can picture Clottey's face now if it goes to decision...


Lasagna with teeth.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Clottey is too slow to get to Pac and he's not good enough of a boxer to outbox Pac either.

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Clottey showed better handspeed and boxing skills than Cotto, I don't think those will be the problem for him. IMO it will be his inability to open up when someone is throwing punches at him that will be his undoing.

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Originally Posted by ross

Thats right, praise the dirty little cheater;D

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Where's your proof though? Then you're a dirty little gossip believer. ;D

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by ross

Thats right, praise the dirty little cheater;D

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Where's your proof though? Then you're a dirty little gossip believer. ;D

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Dont turn my thread into another argument about that shit. ;)

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by ross

Thats right, praise the dirty little cheater;D

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Where's your proof though? Then you're a dirty little gossip believer. ;D

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Dont turn my thread into another argument about that shit. ;)

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Word. There are a billion other threads if you guys want to have that redundant argument.

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by ross

Thats right, praise the dirty little cheater;D

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Where's your proof though? Then you're a dirty little gossip believer. ;D

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Dont turn my thread into another argument about that shit. ;)

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I have been reading through this forum long before I even decided to be a member. I have come to realize that there are pachaters & pacfans (alright, some are even pachuggers) in here.

In order for an argument not to start, unbias posters should castigate those who would come up with an untruthful or unproven allegations . If that is going to be allowed as an opinion, then what do we expect the boxer's supporters to do then. Do we just expect them to lay around and let this go?

I don't see Pac supporters or Pachuggers starting any controversial threads lately but there had been Pachaters who has been on the offensive.

And, somehow, I have a feeling that I will be castigated for this comment. Okey, okey, I have turned this thread into something else. I am just expressing an opinion. Sorry about that, Snakey.

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Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

Where's your proof though? Then you're a dirty little gossip believer. ;D

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Dont turn my thread into another argument about that shit. ;)

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I have been reading through this forum long before I even decided to be a member. I have come to realize that there are pachaters & pacfans (alright, some are even pachuggers) in here.

In order for an argument not to start, unbias posters should castigate those who would come up with an untruthful or unproven allegations . If that is going to be allowed as an opinion, then what do we expect the boxer's supporters to do then. Do we just expect them to lay around and let this go?

I don't see Pac supporters or Pachuggers starting any controversial threads lately but there had been Pachaters who has been on the offensive.

And, somehow, I have a feeling that I will be castigated for this comment. Okey, okey, I have turned this thread into something else. I am just expressing an opinion. Sorry about that, Snakey.

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Bollocks. There were people who bought into Manny on the back of the Cotto fight and were very dissapointed that he pulled out of a mega fight with Mayweather because he wouldn't take a drug test. I was one of those people. It's as simple as that and it is boring going over the same old ground.

You don't avoid a random drug test unless you are hiding something. I would give a test if it meant I could earn a fortune and win over everyone, wouldn't you? Manny refused that. People have made their own conclusions on that basis alone. There is no good reason on this earth to refuse random testing as a professional fighter...unless you are avoiding something.

But this is treading old ground and like I say, it is tedious and extremely dull.

sorry to the TS but my question is, if refusing to take the test will make us believe that he is guilty then why didnt he took the tests? i mean if thats the only way to prove that he is clean then why risk everything by not taking the tests?

he can opt to not take peds for this pbf fight just to appear that he is indeed clean right? lose one match against pbf because he wasnt on juice rather than back out and ruin your legacy. there is no shame in losing to any boxer the more when you lose to pbf.

pac risking his legacy rather than bowing to pbf's demand must mean more than "oh he is surely juicing" stuff.

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Originally Posted by mnmc10

sorry to the TS but my question is, if refusing to take the test will make us believe that he is guilty then why didnt he took the tests? i mean if thats the only way to prove that he is clean then why risk everything by not taking the tests?

he can opt to not take peds for this pbf fight just to appear that he is indeed clean right? lose one match against pbf because he wasnt on juice rather than back out and ruin your legacy. there is no shame in losing to any boxer the more when you lose to pbf.

pac risking his legacy rather than bowing to pbf's demand must mean more than "oh he is surely juicing" stuff.

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Exactly. Anyone arguing that he shouldn't need to take a drug test is a moron. As a boxing fan you want the fight, there is no hesitation involved. To hear that a fighter refuses because he doesn't want to prove himself a totally clean fighter, well that sucks. Furthermore, seeing an old man like Mosley so easily accept the conditions makes Manny look doubly bad. :-\

Pac sucks donkeys balls and I hope Clottey kills him. Or at the the least gives him a really bad headbutt straight on the eye.

Righto my thread is as good as gone, mods please just kill it. I should of known that I couldnt express an opinion the fight without havin people jump up and down about drug tests. For the person who went on about havin an opinion...sure have an opinion but dont bring things into the topic that werent already there, I just wanted to discuss the cotto fight...what we knew happened in the cotto fight not what we thought happened out of the ring before the fight.

I'm with Snakey about the Cotto-Pac fight, i remember thinking Cotto had a great chance after the first few rounds, pretty much up until the 2nd KD i thought he had a great chacne of pulling it out. Pac's performance was unbelievable though, the way he absorbed Cotto's shots and fired back even harder was something i didn't expect to see happen.

On the Clottey fight, i just think Clottey's too negative and defensive to pose problems, Pac's just going to swarm him. To get anything out of Pac, Clottey will need to be more aggressive and try and push him back more, but i can't see it happening. I'm taking Pac by a mid to late TKO

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Originally Posted by Snakey

Righto my thread is as good as gone, mods please just kill it. I should of known that I couldnt express an opinion the fight without havin people jump up and down about drug tests. For the person who went on about havin an opinion...sure have an opinion but dont bring things into the topic that werent already there, I just wanted to discuss the cotto fight...what we knew happened in the cotto fight not what we thought happened out of the ring before the fight.

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It sucks that any thread about Pacquiao or Mayweather immediately gets derailed by the same stupid, never-ending argument.

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Originally Posted by Cressa121

I'm with Snakey about the Cotto-Pac fight, i remember thinking Cotto had a great chance after the first few rounds, pretty much up until the 2nd KD i thought he had a great chacne of pulling it out. Pac's performance was unbelievable though, the way he absorbed Cotto's shots and fired back even harder was something i didn't expect to see happen.

On the Clottey fight, i just think Clottey's too negative and defensive to pose problems, Pac's just going to swarm him. To get anything out of Pac, Clottey will need to be more aggressive and try and push him back more, but i can't see it happening. I'm taking Pac by a mid to late TKO

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I agree. The fight was undecided for the first four rounds and I remember thinking it had FOTY possibilities because it was so intense and so closely contested prior to the upper cut that essentially ended the fight.

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Originally Posted by Cressa121

I'm with Snakey about the Cotto-Pac fight, i remember thinking Cotto had a great chance after the first few rounds, pretty much up until the 2nd KD i thought he had a great chacne of pulling it out. Pac's performance was unbelievable though, the way he absorbed Cotto's shots and fired back even harder was something i didn't expect to see happen.

On the Clottey fight, i just think Clottey's too negative and defensive to pose problems, Pac's just going to swarm him. To get anything out of Pac, Clottey will need to be more aggressive and try and push him back more, but i can't see it happening. I'm taking Pac by a mid to late TKO

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I genuinely thought id seen pacquiaos greatest moments but even i had to admit that was the greatest of them all

When you demand a fighter to produce a stunning display you always think at the back of your mind you may be dissapointed somehow, but that was everything i imagine x5

Funniest thing of all is sat there at 4in the morning with a bunch of mates none of which follow the sport like i do and telling them how pacquiao is infact a flyweight fighting at 10stone 7, none of which actually believed me until i showed them online

stunning fighter who simply leaves me gasping at his acomplishments. Ive seen it all from pacquiao i genuinely wouldnt be able to back a super middleweight in with him

I've also rewatched this fight a few times and I think this was Pac's most serious test at the higher weights.

Having said that, IMO, it is of no greater challenge, nor perilous, than that of his previous bouts against; Morales 1 & 2, Barrera 1, Marquez 1 & 2, at the lighter weight classes.

Forward to this coming fight against Joshua Clottey, and contrary to popular belief, the Ghanian will pose problems for Pac by his sheer size alone provided he comes stacked and well-prepared.

No cutting corners on his training, and with a commitment to a serious gameplan, Clottey will give Pacquiao a run for his money should the fight be one of attrition. He can wear Manny down.

Easier said than done though, as more than less of previous Pac foes found it way too late and already in the ring.

cotto had the power to hurt pac, he had enough speed to tag him. obviously pac was faster but he was getting tagged too. peds aside i was happy that even though cotto was a threat pac just went forward even if it was risky.

when cotto got kd thats when things start to go downhill for cotto. i dunno was he shocked that a midget can hurt him?

cotto lost not because he is weak, not because he is slow he lost cause he doesnt have the heart. he got scared and started to backpedal as for pac? he knew he was going to get hit he knew cotto is a big threat but he bravely went forward and that gamble paid off.

again my apologies to the TS this is place full of antipacs, mention pacs name and they will immediately jump on it claiming that he is guilty of ped.

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Originally Posted by GAME

Clottey is second best to Pac in pretty much every aspect of the game but he can do something Pac cant - Fight dirty.

If he follows the blueprint set by Sanchez it shows how an inferior fighter can get a better fighter off his game. Pac didnt win the fight with Sanchez so if Clottey wants to avoid what seems like an inevitable defeat he needs to bend the rules abit and once Pac is out of his stride he can get to work.

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True.

Ive posted this before i believe. Follow the Agapito Sanchez game plan and you have a chance.

This thread was fine until somebody replied to that dude Ross. :D

and now everybody jumped on the guy who replied and been accused of derailing the thread. LOL

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

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Originally Posted by ross

Thats right, praise the dirty little cheater;D

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Where's your proof though? Then you're a dirty little gossip believer. ;D

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Dont turn my thread into another argument about that shit. ;)

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Much respect to Snakey but that reply should be to that dude Ross ;)

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by mad_takamura

Where's your proof though? Then you're a dirty little gossip believer. ;D

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Dont turn my thread into another argument about that shit. ;)

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Much respect to Snakey but that reply should be to that dude Ross ;)

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Mate I believe my response was to both of you hence why both of you were in the quote.

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by Snakey

Dont turn my thread into another argument about that shit. ;)

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Much respect to Snakey but that reply should be to that dude Ross ;)

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Mate I believe my response was to both of you hence why both of you were in the quote.

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I see. sorry about that mate. :) It's nice to see threads like this once in a while. the one free from 'Drug testing protocol debate'.

Yeah I too thought it was a pick-em fight up until the 2nd knockdown. You could see in Cotto's face that he was visibly stunned by that one! The first knockdown was more being caught off balance and didn't dent his confidence as much as the second one did.

I agree with the person who said he was afraid to get hit after that so he was just in retreat mode. It was a shockingly good display by Pac.

I wonder how the fight might have panned out had Pac not landed that big uppercut for the 2nd knockdown? I think we might have seen a different fight, bit more competitive but Pac still winning IMO.

Clottey doesn't stand a chance - I'm happy for him getting a payday though. A good, honest, hard worker.

Post fight interview of Pacquiao by Larry Merchant revealed that he bluffed Miguel into thinking that he was not affected by any of Cotto's power at all. Then admitted that it actually did.... bigtime.

Pacquiao just showed that he knew, that for anyone to win in a mega fight, you need not only control the physical aspect of it, but likewise the psychological and emotional aspects of it as well.

In the Cotto's corner after the fourth, it was all too evident in Miguel's look of anguish, that he realized he was receiving the short end in most of the exchanges. He might have reached a maximum in his belief that the fight on hand was an even one, and felt the first signs of just going into a survival mode instead of fighting a way to win.

All too naturally his emotions went downhill as a result, and so too did his ability to compete physically, (not knowing that he was likewise hurting Pac by large... had he just known!).

Maybe a seed of doubt grew, stemming from Miguel's realization that his fight preparations loomed inferior and inappropriate against the opposition's, and magnified more with the magnitude of the fight on hand.

By then it was too late for any second-guessing!

If for anything at all, this should serve Miguel well in future fight preparations. Like what an enduring multi-titled champion always maintain... "train hard, the fight is easy".

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

Post fight interview of Pacquiao by Larry Merchant revealed that he bluffed Miguel into thinking that he was not affected by any of Cotto's power at all. Then admitted that it actually did.... bigtime.

Pacquiao just showed that he knew, that for anyone to win in a mega fight, you need not only control the physical aspect of it, but likewise the psychological and emotional aspects of it as well.

In the Cotto's corner after the fourth, it was all too evident in Miguel's look of anguish, that he realized he was receiving the short end in most of the exchanges. He might have reached a maximum in his belief that the fight on hand was an even one, and felt the first signs of just going into a survival mode instead of fighting a way to win.

All too naturally his emotions went downhill as a result, and so too did his ability to compete physically, (not knowing that he was likewise hurting Pac by large... had he just known!).

Maybe a seed of doubt grew, stemming from Miguel's realization that his fight preparations loomed inferior and inappropriate against the opposition's, and magnified more with the magnitude of the fight on hand.

By then it was too late for any second-guessing!

If for anything at all, this should serve Miguel well in future fight preparations. Like what an enduring multi-titled champion always maintain... "train hard, the fight is easy".

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I dont think it would of made a difference if he knew he was hurting pac coz I dont think he had the game plan to keep attacking. Pac adjusted after the first few rounds and was now into his groove where throws and moves constantly and Cotto was getting tired.

I never saw this as a pick 'em while it happened. I think I gave Cotto the 10th round, I never really felt he was a threat to Pac. Part of this may have been that I was drunk & had spent the whole night telling my friend that Pacquiao was going to have Cotto up (he was picking Cotto & conversely saw the opposite with the first 2 rounds to Cotto). Miguel is a hell of a fighter, but he's always been a sucker for the uppercut & always looked in danger against southpaws so I saw this as a nice victory for Pac.

That's not to take away from Manny, it still takes a hell of a lot to have the discipline to beat up a bigger man & a guy as good as Cotto like he did, but I just felt it was always going to happen. Plus Cotto really didn't show Manny the respect he deserved & just like Hatton I got the impression he thought he could walk through it.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I never saw this as a pick 'em while it happened. I think I gave Cotto the 10th round, I never really felt he was a threat to Pac. Part of this may have been that I was drunk & had spent the whole night telling my friend that Pacquiao was going to have Cotto up (he was picking Cotto & conversely saw the opposite with the first 2 rounds to Cotto). Miguel is a hell of a fighter, but he's always been a sucker for the uppercut & always looked in danger against southpaws so I saw this as a nice victory for Pac.

That's not to take away from Manny, it still takes a hell of a lot to have the discipline to beat up a bigger man & a guy as good as Cotto like he did, but I just felt it was always going to happen. Plus Cotto really didn't show Manny the respect he deserved & just like Hatton I got the impression he thought he could walk through it.

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See theres your problem merkin, if you specialise fights to get drunk on your probably not gonna be able to call it accurately. If however you get wasted whenever and whatever fight is on then eventually it is possible to call a fight pissed ;D

Apart from the knockdown i had cotto a round or two up going through 5-6 but from then on in it was all pacquiao and going into that last round he was a good 4-5rounds up. It was without doubt the greatest of all the pacquiao performances mainly because of who he did it to, the weight he did it at and how he went about slowly but surely tearing through cottos defence

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I never saw this as a pick 'em while it happened. I think I gave Cotto the 10th round, I never really felt he was a threat to Pac. Part of this may have been that I was drunk & had spent the whole night telling my friend that Pacquiao was going to have Cotto up (he was picking Cotto & conversely saw the opposite with the first 2 rounds to Cotto). Miguel is a hell of a fighter, but he's always been a sucker for the uppercut & always looked in danger against southpaws so I saw this as a nice victory for Pac.

That's not to take away from Manny, it still takes a hell of a lot to have the discipline to beat up a bigger man & a guy as good as Cotto like he did, but I just felt it was always going to happen. Plus Cotto really didn't show Manny the respect he deserved & just like Hatton I got the impression he thought he could walk through it.

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See theres your problem merkin, if you specialise fights to get drunk on your probably not gonna be able to call it accurately. If however you get wasted whenever and whatever fight is on then eventually it is possible to call a fight pissed ;D

Apart from the knockdown i had cotto a round or two up going through 5-6 but from then on in it was all pacquiao and going into that last round he was a good 4-5rounds up. It was without doubt the greatest of all the pacquiao performances mainly because of who he did it to, the weight he did it at and how he went about slowly but surely tearing through cottos defence

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I'm afraid I'm simply not on your level when it comes to boozing Hammer. It's a once in a blue moon thing for me and whilst I'm sure it would eventually improve my ability to call fights pissed, it probably wouldn't help my training regimen ;)

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't like I didn't think the rounds were close, but I had Pac just edging the first 2, & whilst I felt Cotto 'won' the 3rd, because of the KD it was 10-9 round for Pac. Then from there through to 10 all Pac, Cotto boxed nicely in that round before Pac took over again. I've watched it again since (sober) & had largely the same conclusion although maybe that's because I now know the result and see what Pac is doing with the result in the back of my mind.