Could Floyd end his career as the best ever?

If Floyd beats Shane Mosley, and then went on to beat Manny Pacquaio where would he rank on an all time scale?

I mean to be 42-0 against such high quality opposition, with no losses, never put down, never hurt, it would be an awesome acomplishment.

Also for me the quality of opposition argument couldn't really be used against him as who else from 125-147 should he have fought?

It would be an amazing legacy in my mind. I mean no other fighter would have come close to going through an entire career, against such opposition, without ever losing a fight.

If you don't think this is the case, who would he have to fight in order to get up there, or is it simply impossible no matter what he does?

I don't think it's possible for a fighter today to compile a resume that matches Robinson's. He beat like 9 hall of famers I think it was, I can't think of anyone who has more then 4 or 5 on their resume today. De La Hoya and potentially Mosley are the only real locks Mayweather has on his. Marquez, Castillo and Gatti are borderline candidates.

I would say he is possibly the best meaning put him in the ring with anyone and he's got a more then favorable chance to win, but his accomplishments will never stack up. Now if you talk the last 30 years then possibly.

I think people dislike his style too much, and that its unlikely he will ever have to pull out the drama the other greats did in order to win certain fights. His technique is too good, and he always comes in the best shape he possibly can which makes his fights a lot less dramatic then say Ali who didn't train hard enough for guys like Frazier(and wasn't ready to face him the first time they fought).

I just think its amazing that a lot of the great fighter athletically haven't had his technical brilliance, he is unique mix of Bernard Hopkins' ring wizardy with truly elite athletic ability, and the stamina of anyone who's ever fought.

All that being said he won't ever be the top fighter p4p ever simply because guys don't like him enough. There will always be another opponent he supposedly avoided, arguements that excitement counts for where you stand on the p4p pole.

We will see after Mayweather-Pacquiao that might be the first time to future top 10 p4p'ers ever face eachother under fair circumstances. Robinson was way bigger than Armstrong who was aging, and Tunney was bigger than Zale.

I forgot who said it, but someone here said that Roberto Duran has the greatest accomplishments of a fighter in the last 30 years or so. And I have to agree. For Floyd to be best ever, just ask yourself if he's accomplished more than Roberto Duran (a modern all time great) even if he beats Mosley and Mayweather.

My answer would be no, and Duran is a top 5 fighter of all time by many boxing publications and fans.

I may not even see someone being better than DUran in terms of skills, accomplishments and longevity in my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I forgot who said it, but someone here said that Roberto Duran has the greatest accomplishments of a fighter in the last 30 years or so. And I have to agree. For Floyd to be best ever, just ask yourself if he's accomplished more than Roberto Duran (a modern all time great) even if he beats Mosley and Mayweather.

My answer would be no, and Duran is a top 5 fighter of all time by many boxing publications and fans.

I may not even see someone being better than DUran in terms of skills, accomplishments and longevity in my lifetime.

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I'm not sure I honestly think Manny Pacquaio has done more than Duran now.

Duran was a great for sure but he lost the most significant fights of his career, the second fight with Leonard, was KO'd by Hearns, lost to Hagler. Manny has moved up higher in comparison from where he started and dominated the top guys.

I do think nostalgia creeps in a little bit with Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler.

I actually agree with Taeth to an extent. They are rated so highly because their fights against each other were often wars and wildly entertaining.

Floyd beats his opponents with comparative ease and ironically gets downgraded because of it.

For the record I think Floyd beats Duran. Too smart to engage and let him fight his fight, he'd box him and keep away. If Kirklaind Laing could do it Floyd undoubtedly could.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If Floyd beats Shane Mosley, and then went on to beat Manny Pacquaio where would he rank on an all time scale?

I mean to be 42-0 against such high quality opposition, with no losses, never put down, never hurt, it would be an awesome acomplishment.

Also for me the quality of opposition argument couldn't really be used against him as who else from 125-147 should he have fought?

It would be an amazing legacy in my mind. I mean no other fighter would have come close to going through an entire career, against such opposition, without ever losing a fight.

If you don't think this is the case, who would he have to fight in order to get up there, or is it simply impossible no matter what he does?

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i tell ya bilbo,mayweather and greatest of all time dont sit well in the same sentence within the boxing world. i voted that mayweather would be the greatest of all time if he beat both mosely and pac but would have too dominate the 154 division as well. lets get right to the point tho,if ur gonna be considered the best then that means bein better then SRR,a tough task for sure, but really none of us no the outcome of a welterweight showdown between SRR and mayweather, for all we no mayweather could beat SRR 9 times out of 10,but where so attached to the greats of old that it could blind our vision,especially if ur a young lad(like myself)where u here the older folk or boxing experts say that SRR was the best ever,ur gonna believe that. yeah its hard to admit, but we really do not no.









job bicuit (what do u expect me to say.these silly demands that u try to enforce.when i retaliate u act like a pussy,u act like u never did shit to me,im above all ur bullshit,im bigger than all that bullshit,seriously,come test me again and lets see what happens because i will die for what i believe in,and that makes me a dangerous man, if i want i can make u wish u was never born)

I think we are lucky to have 2 current fighters who could or are already top 10 fighters of all time. I feel Pac has a headstart on Floyd already as he started at lower weights and has a better resume. floyds advamtage over Pac when it comes to all time rankings is that he hasnt been defeated yet unlike Manny.

Her are a couple of scenarios i think could mak either a real contender to be ranked as the greatest fighter of all time.

Manny Pac:
Fight and defeat Floyd Mayweather
Fight for a title at 154 and win.

If Manny did this it'd be titles at 8 different weight classes right? And he would have wins over 6 future HOF fighters. That stacks up well with anyone including Robinson.

PBF:
Fight and beat Shane Mosely
Fight and beat Manny Pac
fight and beat Sergio Martinez for the WBC 160 title.

This may sound a little farfetched but is it beyond possibility? Martinez is not really that much bigger than ODLH who Floyd has already beaten, altho he does have a massive reach advantage.
It would mean wins over 6 or 7 possible future HOF fighters, and the WBC title in 6 different weight classes. And most importantly an undefeated record. This too would stack up well against anyone in the history of boxing.

I'ld still like Mayweather to fight Paul Williams before he retires. It will never happen I know. But he would get a lot of credit if he beat Williams IMO.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I forgot who said it, but someone here said that Roberto Duran has the greatest accomplishments of a fighter in the last 30 years or so. And I have to agree. For Floyd to be best ever, just ask yourself if he's accomplished more than Roberto Duran (a modern all time great) even if he beats Mosley and Mayweather.

My answer would be no, and Duran is a top 5 fighter of all time by many boxing publications and fans.

I may not even see someone being better than DUran in terms of skills, accomplishments and longevity in my lifetime.

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I'm not sure I honestly think Manny Pacquaio has done more than Duran now.

Duran was a great for sure but he lost the most significant fights of his career, the second fight with Leonard, was KO'd by Hearns, lost to Hagler. Manny has moved up higher in comparison from where he started and dominated the top guys.

I do think nostalgia creeps in a little bit with Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler.

I actually agree with Taeth to an extent. They are rated so highly because their fights against each other were often wars and wildly entertaining.

Floyd beats his opponents with comparative ease and ironically gets downgraded because of it.

For the record I think Floyd beats Duran. Too smart to engage and let him fight his fight, he'd box him and keep away. If Kirklaind Laing could do it Floyd undoubtedly could.

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I didn't want to turn this into a Duran thread. But Duran is arguably the greatest 135 pounder. A natural lightweight that beat a prime Leonard convincingly in their 1st fight. Floyd and Manny ain't beating prime Leonard at 147. And for sure they ain't going to beat Tommy Hearns at 147 or 154. Could they go 15 against Hagler? Remember Duran was winning that fight after 12 and would have been MW champ if it was by today's rules. He also beat a top 3 154 pounder in Davey Moore for his title. Also beat Iran Barkley for a piece of the MW title at 38.

Remember for those losses you brought up, he lost them out of his prime weight. And he started his career as a bantamweight, 118 pounds.

He didn't need to fight guys at a catchweight either or demanded all kinds of advantages in his favor like Leonard or Manny.

I used Duran because he's a modern great instead of SRR who's not considered to be a modern fighter. Ain't no modern guy has the resume or accomplishments of Duran today.

Sugar Ray Robinson fought everyone who was everyone, buy his 131st professional fight his record stood as: 128-1-2

Nope, He's already ducked too many guys to be in consideration. Pacquiao is much higher P4P all time IMO. If Pacquiao beat Mayweather and Mosley convincingly he could pull the greatest ever card I believe.

It's funny how time only counts against the modern guys...floyd at lightweight would tax duran's ass...shane mosely would really beat that ass.

As far as Floyd being greatest of all time he and manny both are fighting for 4th place at best because they both left too many opponents in their prime weight classes. manny gets no credit for beating oscar. Hatton, cotto, clottey,
does definitely put him ahead of floyd.

p.s.

SRR was replaced on march 1, 2003 as p4p #1 all time....

WTF? Jones has 2, count them, 2 hall of famers on his resume under the win column. How the FUCK did he unseat SRR as the GOAT?


*** edit, I guess I forgot McCallum if that even counts. Roy is great maybe the most talented fighter of all time but how could you say 1 win over a mediocre heavyweight unseats SRR? Really that's silly to say, if you believed he was the greatest you believed it far before the win over Ruiz.

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Originally Posted by amat

WTF? Jones has 2, count them, 2 hall of famers on his resume under the win column. How the FUCK did he unseat SRR as the GOAT?


*** edit, I guess I forgot McCallum if that even counts. Roy is great maybe the most talented fighter of all time but how could you say 1 win over a mediocre heavyweight unseats SRR? Really that's silly to say, if you believed he was the greatest you believed it far before the win over Ruiz.

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silly as it may sound to the boxing choir..I don't really give a shit..RJJ p4p best to ever wear gloves...

and that was decided before he beat ruiz, that HW belt just solidified it..

As Jim Lampley said (I believe during the Trinidad Jones fight) : if the object of the game is to fight the easiest guys possible and make the most money possible Roy Jones is the greatest of all time. Please tell em your going by that criterion otherwise you're delusional.

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Originally Posted by Truth

As Jim Lampley said (I believe during the Trinidad Jones fight) : if the object of the game is to fight the easiest guys possible and make the most money possible Roy Jones is the greatest of all time. Please tell em your going by that criterion otherwise you're delusional.

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since you can't read I'll say it again:

"silly as it may sound to the boxing choir..I don't really give a shit..RJJ p4p best to ever wear gloves..."

Since you want to throw out quotes here are a couple that sums up RJJ career best...

"what Roy Jones has done is exposed a real paper champion" - Merchant

"Absolutely" - Lampley

"Ohhh no, the man came out here and fought a terrific fight so don't try to tear it down now because he put on a great performance. We sold it as a Heavyweight championship" - Foreman

"The promoters sold not us" merchant

"Well, we bought it. And they're all paper champions then..." - Foreman..

There's no problem with you thinking Jones is the best ever to lace them up, there certainly aren't to many who are better. However, he hasn't beaten enough quality opponents to definitively prove that. That's my only point and that's why I took exception to Ruiz being a win that makes him the ATG. It was a great win but it was over an average fighter.

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Originally Posted by amat

There's no problem with you thinking Floyd is the best ever to lace them up, there certainly aren't to many who are better. However, he hasn't beaten enough quality opponents to definitively prove that. That's my only point and that's why I took exception to Ruiz being a win that makes him the ATG. It was a great win but it was over an average fighter.

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You mean Roy of course. You're being very vague and confusing today Amat :D

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by amat

There's no problem with you thinking Floyd is the best ever to lace them up, there certainly aren't to many who are better. However, he hasn't beaten enough quality opponents to definitively prove that. That's my only point and that's why I took exception to Ruiz being a win that makes him the ATG. It was a great win but it was over an average fighter.

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You mean Roy of course. You're being very vague and confusing today Amat :D

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No I'm talking about Dakota Fanning ;D

Yes I'm a bit mixed up this Friday Night.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

I forgot who said it, but someone here said that Roberto Duran has the greatest accomplishments of a fighter in the last 30 years or so. And I have to agree. For Floyd to be best ever, just ask yourself if he's accomplished more than Roberto Duran (a modern all time great) even if he beats Mosley and Mayweather.

My answer would be no, and Duran is a top 5 fighter of all time by many boxing publications and fans.

I may not even see someone being better than DUran in terms of skills, accomplishments and longevity in my lifetime.

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I'm not sure I honestly think Manny Pacquaio has done more than Duran now.

Duran was a great for sure but he lost the most significant fights of his career, the second fight with Leonard, was KO'd by Hearns, lost to Hagler. Manny has moved up higher in comparison from where he started and dominated the top guys.

I do think nostalgia creeps in a little bit with Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler.

I actually agree with Taeth to an extent. They are rated so highly because their fights against each other were often wars and wildly entertaining.

Floyd beats his opponents with comparative ease and ironically gets downgraded because of it.

For the record I think Floyd beats Duran. Too smart to engage and let him fight his fight, he'd box him and keep away. If Kirklaind Laing could do it Floyd undoubtedly could.

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I didn't want to turn this into a Duran thread. But Duran is arguably the greatest 135 pounder. A natural lightweight that beat a prime Leonard convincingly in their 1st fight. Floyd and Manny ain't beating prime Leonard at 147. And for sure they ain't going to beat Tommy Hearns at 147 or 154. Could they go 15 against Hagler? Remember Duran was winning that fight after 12 and would have been MW champ if it was by today's rules. He also beat a top 3 154 pounder in Davey Moore for his title. Also beat Iran Barkley for a piece of the MW title at 38.

Remember for those losses you brought up, he lost them out of his prime weight. And he started his career as a bantamweight, 118 pounds.

He didn't need to fight guys at a catchweight either or demanded all kinds of advantages in his favor like Leonard or Manny.

I used Duran because he's a modern great instead of SRR who's not considered to be a modern fighter. Ain't no modern guy has the resume or accomplishments of Duran today.

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I think Mayweather could go 15 rounds with Hagler, I don't see that being too much to ask of Mayweather.

I also honestly see Mayweather or Pacquiao beating Leonard on the right night. THere were times against a poorly prepared Benitez that gave Leonard absolute fits, and Mayweather is better than Benitez in virtually ever category except power. Depending on how Mayweather could deal with Leonard's speed and range I think Mayweather could do very well against Leonard.

If Manny could hold up to the power of Leonard which I am almost certain he can(I believe Cotto is a bigger puncher than Ray who didn't have a huge punch) then I think Manny would have likely beaten Leonard maybe more often than Mayweather. He throws more than Leonard, he likely has/had better stamina, he is just as fast and his combinations work better against range fighters because Leonard threw more hook combinations while Manny's are straight punches. Also Leonard wasn't the kind of counter puncher guys like Mayweather or RJJ were, he was more the type of guy who would fight on the outside and outspeed you, I think Manny's offense would overwhelm a guy like that a little bit. Too many punches for too many angles.

As for Hearns I think if Mayweather fought how he normally does he would be screwed, but both Benitez and Leonard were able to handle Hearns' power and thats because I believe they were fast enough to see his punches coming, and that a lot of his power came from throwing that right hand behind the jab in such a way that slower opponents didn't see it until it landed. Mayweather is also a great inside fighter with much better cardio than Hearns. If he could get inside on Hearns then once again he would do pretty good, and Benitez was able to do alright against Hearns, and he is sort of a poor man's Mayweather, a lot because he hardly ever trained for big fights.

I think for Manny against the 1980's greats a matter of whether he can deal with the punches, I don't think any of them were as good defensively as they would need to be in order to avoid what Manny threw, and I am not sure if they could go to war with Manny and come out the victor, he loves to fight more than anyone and he has all the talent in the world, I think there is a reason why he is ranked higher than any of them except Duran p4p, and I think DUran is the only one with the tenacity to actually beat Manny more often than not assuming none of them could truly hurt him.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Truth

As Jim Lampley said (I believe during the Trinidad Jones fight) : if the object of the game is to fight the easiest guys possible and make the most money possible Roy Jones is the greatest of all time. Please tell em your going by that criterion otherwise you're delusional.

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since you can't read I'll say it again:

"silly as it may sound to the boxing choir..I don't really give a shit..RJJ p4p best to ever wear gloves..."

Since you want to throw out quotes here are a couple that sums up RJJ career best...

"what Roy Jones has done is exposed a real paper champion" - Merchant

"Absolutely" - Lampley

"Ohhh no, the man came out here and fought a terrific fight so don't try to tear it down now because he put on a great performance. We sold it as a Heavyweight championship" - Foreman

"The promoters sold not us" merchant

"Well, we bought it. And they're all paper champions then..." - Foreman..

---

Watch the first Jones-Griffin fight and you will see that a guy like Mayweather would pick Roy apart because he is throws punches that simply wouldn't land on Floyd because they are too wide and thrown from too far away.

I will completely agree though that Roy was capable of dominating c level competition better than anyone else, but not B+ or higher levels of competition.

[quote=amat;870322]There's no problem with you thinking Jones is the best ever to lace them up, there certainly aren't to many who are better. However, he hasn't beaten enough quality opponents to definitively prove that. That's my only point and that's why I took exception to Ruiz being a win that makes him the ATG. It was a great win but it was over an average fighter.[/quote]


so were basillo, lamotta, graziano and gavilian...and he was average enough to win the heavy belt or a piece of it. Something many can't make a claim to have achieved which makes him above average...

Are you that stupid? Are you really comparing those guys and saying they are on the level of John Ruiz? Did I just read that correctly? Those are HALL OF FAMERS.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Truth

As Jim Lampley said (I believe during the Trinidad Jones fight) : if the object of the game is to fight the easiest guys possible and make the most money possible Roy Jones is the greatest of all time. Please tell em your going by that criterion otherwise you're delusional.

---

since you can't read I'll say it again:

"silly as it may sound to the boxing choir..I don't really give a shit..RJJ p4p best to ever wear gloves..."

Since you want to throw out quotes here are a couple that sums up RJJ career best...

"what Roy Jones has done is exposed a real paper champion" - Merchant

"Absolutely" - Lampley

"Ohhh no, the man came out here and fought a terrific fight so don't try to tear it down now because he put on a great performance. We sold it as a Heavyweight championship" - Foreman

"The promoters sold not us" merchant

"Well, we bought it. And they're all paper champions then..." - Foreman..

---

Watch the first Jones-Griffin fight and you will see that a guy like Mayweather would pick Roy apart because he is throws punches that simply wouldn't land on Floyd because they are too wide and thrown from too far away.

I will completely agree though that Roy was capable of dominating c level competition better than anyone else, but not B+ or higher levels of competition.

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Here we go again...same ole bullshit. Go watch this fight and go watch that fight, but let's forget about the fights were guys who weren't even an eight of Roy's speed landed flush on floyd. Let's forget about how prime floyd arguably lost to castillo a fighter not fit to carry Jones's jock strap..Let's forget chop chop landed flush and wobbled floyd. Let's forget judah unofficially dropped him. Let's forget he couldn't stop a man two weight classes smaller than him. Let's forget all of the fights that point to why Jones would knock floyd silly...Let's not mention the fact that jones spent majority of his career fighting guys naturally bigger than him and did it in dominating fashion. Let's forget that its RJJ that's is often pitted in hypothetical match ups against ALL TIME GREAT TRUE HEAVY'S when he started at 154. This self admission that anyone below heavy stands a punchers chance against roy, and @ MW-LHW Jones beats everyone in history 9 out of 10....

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Originally Posted by amat

Are you that stupid? Are you really comparing those guys and saying they are on the level of John Ruiz? Did I just read that correctly? Those are HALL OF FAMERS.

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The question is are you? Just because they're in the HOF isn't the end all. Skillfully they were nothing compared to SRR. Qawi is in the HOF too but is he on the same level as Floyd or Jones?

What are you talking about?

So you think all those guys are of comparable skill level to John Ruiz? Because whether you realize it or not that's why you said. If so then you have no business talking about those guys.

This thread is turning into an who is the greatest p4p thread. Someone said Roy, I go with Duran for the modern era.

And someone in here thinks Floyd could fare well with Leonard, Hearns, Duran, and go 15 with Hagler.

Hey we all have our opinions, so I'll leave it at that.

Aint no right or wrong answer.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

since you can't read I'll say it again:

"silly as it may sound to the boxing choir..I don't really give a shit..RJJ p4p best to ever wear gloves..."

Since you want to throw out quotes here are a couple that sums up RJJ career best...

"what Roy Jones has done is exposed a real paper champion" - Merchant

"Absolutely" - Lampley

"Ohhh no, the man came out here and fought a terrific fight so don't try to tear it down now because he put on a great performance. We sold it as a Heavyweight championship" - Foreman

"The promoters sold not us" merchant

"Well, we bought it. And they're all paper champions then..." - Foreman..

---

Watch the first Jones-Griffin fight and you will see that a guy like Mayweather would pick Roy apart because he is throws punches that simply wouldn't land on Floyd because they are too wide and thrown from too far away.

I will completely agree though that Roy was capable of dominating c level competition better than anyone else, but not B+ or higher levels of competition.

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Here we go again...same ole bullshit. Go watch this fight and go watch that fight, but let's forget about the fights were guys who weren't even an eight of Roy's speed landed flush on floyd. Let's forget about how prime floyd arguably lost to castillo a fighter not fit to carry Jones's jock strap..Let's forget chop chop landed flush and wobbled floyd. Let's forget judah unofficially dropped him. Let's forget he couldn't stop a man two weight classes smaller than him. Let's forget all of the fights that point to why Jones would knock floyd silly...Let's not mention the fact that jones spent majority of his career fighting guys naturally bigger than him and did it in dominating fashion. Let's forget that its RJJ that's is often pitted in hypothetical match ups against ALL TIME GREAT TRUE HEAVY'S when he started at 154. This self admission that anyone below heavy stands a punchers chance against roy, and @ MW-LHW Jones beats everyone in history 9 out of 10....

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I am going to highlight the whole arguement because its terrible, yes Roy was a great fighter, but it's largely contested he never really ever weighed in at 154, a lot of people believe on the smaller stage he was able to fake 160 for 154.
Also the guys who landed flush punches on FLoyd didn't do it with speed, but with proper diligence(do you need me to explain the word). The whole point is that anyone of any speed can land on anyone if they fight correctly, but ROy's flamboyant style has no place against the elites of the sport. Anyone that can come close to matching his speed would likely beat him because of he depended on being so much faster than guys that if he wasn't like against Griffin he had a lot of troubles because their punches would come straighter and land before his.

I think Roy was the greatest fighter against anyone who wasn't in his class athletically, but that was his one true advantage, all his genius and abilities were based on that.

A world champion who defends his title against a part time cop waives his right to be all time greatest.

To answer the original question greatness is all relative. I get sick of people who discount modern day fighters due to them fighting less, when in fact if Ray Robinson were in his prime today he also would only be fighting at most twice a year, not twice in 9 days. Any fighter with a ridiculous amount of fights, even James Toney of today, the vast majority of those opponents are not even B level fighters. Ray Robinson should be the greatest of all time but not just based on his record, but based on the number of quality world class fighters he beat.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Watch the first Jones-Griffin fight and you will see that a guy like Mayweather would pick Roy apart because he is throws punches that simply wouldn't land on Floyd because they are too wide and thrown from too far away.

I will completely agree though that Roy was capable of dominating c level competition better than anyone else, but not B+ or higher levels of competition.

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Here we go again...same ole bullshit. Go watch this fight and go watch that fight, but let's forget about the fights were guys who weren't even an eight of Roy's speed landed flush on floyd. Let's forget about how prime floyd arguably lost to castillo a fighter not fit to carry Jones's jock strap..Let's forget chop chop landed flush and wobbled floyd. Let's forget judah unofficially dropped him. Let's forget he couldn't stop a man two weight classes smaller than him. Let's forget all of the fights that point to why Jones would knock floyd silly...Let's not mention the fact that jones spent majority of his career fighting guys naturally bigger than him and did it in dominating fashion. Let's forget that its RJJ that's is often pitted in hypothetical match ups against ALL TIME GREAT TRUE HEAVY'S when he started at 154. This self admission that anyone below heavy stands a punchers chance against roy, and @ MW-LHW Jones beats everyone in history 9 out of 10....

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I am going to highlight the whole arguement because its terrible, yes Roy was a great fighter, but it's largely contested he never really ever weighed in at 154, a lot of people believe on the smaller stage he was able to fake 160 for 154.
Also the guys who landed flush punches on FLoyd didn't do it with speed, but with proper diligence(do you need me to explain the word). The whole point is that anyone of any speed can land on anyone if they fight correctly, but ROy's flamboyant style has no place against the elites of the sport. Anyone that can come close to matching his speed would likely beat him because of he depended on being so much faster than guys that if he wasn't like against Griffin he had a lot of troubles because their punches would come straighter and land before his.

I think Roy was the greatest fighter against anyone who wasn't in his class athletically, but that was his one true advantage, all his genius and abilities were based on that.

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Must be why he dominated james toney, UD over hopkins, macallum, kayoed virgil hill, dominated reggie johnson, gonazales, and so on and so on...

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Originally Posted by match

A world champion who defends his title against a part time cop waives his right to be all time greatest.

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Youre fucking stupid..what do you think all the "contenders" do to make money until they earn a shot at the champ? THEY WORK BLUE COLLAR JOBS..In fact unless we're talking about a well groomed amateur fighter, most likely they will be blue collars workers that also box.

The problem that roy fought a man that was a part time cop, isnt roy's fault you can blame the sanctioning bodies for that.

People are so fucking stupid when it comes to the politics of modern boxing its annoying. Roy's isnt held to the highest regards because of his opponents? Get the fuck out of here, he's beaten more top ten and future champions than anyone. Roy's problem was that he didnt tie into any of the big name promoters that normally sell opponents as "legit". That's the only reason Tyson is even mentioned in any heavy ATG debate. Because Dong king was such a great promoter in making people believe those stiffs had a chance. Guess what Douglass was doing before he knocked Tyson the fuck out? He was a plumber or carpet layer...

The SMW tourney sums up the exact view of the old time fighters vs RJJ. A group of guys all worthy and capable of being champ and its very interesting to watch and an easy sell because of how close they all are in terms of being able to beat each other. This elevates all their stock because they're so close. Now you drop a phenom like Prime RJJ in there and no one would be interested because after he'd kTFO one of them inside 5 rounds then followed it up with another kayo, everyone would lose interest and say ohh they all werent that good anyway and RJJ should be fighting heavys because he hits too hard, he's too fast, he can't be hit flush, etc etc etc

He can go out as one of the best of its generation but he's far from the all time top 20.

100% agreed Nameless

Floyd NEVER unified titles in any weight division....ever! Which means he can't even be considered the "Undisputed" champion of ANY weight class, yes there were guys he didn't bother to fight because they were bums but there are also some very quality guys he missed out on fighting too.

In the all time P4P rankings there are a number of fighters better than Floyd (maybe not skillwise but definently recordwise): Robinson, Armstrong, Pep, Duran, Hearns, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, etc.

I don't doubt Floyd is great but there are a number of fighters he had better be down on his knees praising God that he didn't have to fight in their primes in his era: Tommy Hearns, Felix Trinidad, Pernell Whittaker, Oscar De la Hoya, Shane Mosley, Aaron Pryor, Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard, etc.

i dont think so this is a guy who said he doesn't care about legacy he just cares about money. And if he wants to go down as the greatest he has to unify them titles and defend against madatorys as well as prime superstars who are reaching the pound 4 pound top ranks such as paul williams, andre berto, screw pacquiao cause mayweathers annoying and has million excuses but manny really didn't take those test for the fight so pacmans excluded, Even though he has loses still always wanted him to fight cotto margarito. Basically to me what he has to do his fight prime fighters who are actually pound for pound material with a real chance. For him to say he's the best ever is a far fetch and i think he has to actually prove that by beating the current champs at welter. This one sounds stupid but i thought if he could expand his mind a big big ass payday for mayweather would be to get Amir Khan in the ring. If it makes money it makes sense right? Khan has a big fan base and they both have olympic medals If he flew across it would be the biggest thing ever. Money wise anyway.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

100% agreed Nameless

Floyd NEVER unified titles in any weight division....ever! Which means he can't even be considered the "Undisputed" champion of ANY weight class, yes there were guys he didn't bother to fight because they were bums but there are also some very quality guys he missed out on fighting too.

In the all time P4P rankings there are a number of fighters better than Floyd (maybe not skillwise but definently recordwise): Robinson, Armstrong, Pep, Duran, Hearns, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, etc.

I don't doubt Floyd is great but there are a number of fighters he had better be down on his knees praising God that he didn't have to fight in their primes in his era: Tommy Hearns, Felix Trinidad, Pernell Whittaker, Oscar De la Hoya, Shane Mosley, Aaron Pryor, Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard, etc.

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I agree with this. Floyd picks and chooses, and like you say, picks the guys at the weights and ignores others. His record at 140 and above is so full of holes and fighters that had no business being in there with a top PFP fighter. Mayweather's record is flawed because in recent years he refused to take risks. It is for that reason that he most likely will not go down as the best ever. There are a lot of fighters greater than Floyd Mayweather.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by match

A world champion who defends his title against a part time cop waives his right to be all time greatest.

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Youre fucking stupid..what do you think all the "contenders" do to make money until they earn a shot at the champ? THEY WORK BLUE COLLAR JOBS..In fact unless we're talking about a well groomed amateur fighter, most likely they will be blue collars workers that also box.

The problem that roy fought a man that was a part time cop, isnt roy's fault you can blame the sanctioning bodies for that.

People are so fucking stupid when it comes to the politics of modern boxing its annoying. Roy's isnt held to the highest regards because of his opponents? Get the fuck out of here, he's beaten more top ten and future champions than anyone. Roy's problem was that he didnt tie into any of the big name promoters that normally sell opponents as "legit". That's the only reason Tyson is even mentioned in any heavy ATG debate. Because Dong king was such a great promoter in making people believe those stiffs had a chance. Guess what Douglass was doing before he knocked Tyson the fuck out? He was a plumber or carpet layer...

The SMW tourney sums up the exact view of the old time fighters vs RJJ. A group of guys all worthy and capable of being champ and its very interesting to watch and an easy sell because of how close they all are in terms of being able to beat each other. This elevates all their stock because they're so close. Now you drop a phenom like Prime RJJ in there and no one would be interested because after he'd kTFO one of them inside 5 rounds then followed it up with another kayo, everyone would lose interest and say ohh they all werent that good anyway and RJJ should be fighting heavys because he hits too hard, he's too fast, he can't be hit flush, etc etc etc

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Sorry gay boy, but you've proven to be not only a Roy cocksucker, but also borderline illiterate. I said a 'WORLD CHAMPION.', not a journeyman stupid. Most world champions, especially those who at the time are considered the top p4p fighter in the world, fight full time boxers, now feel free to go fuck yourself;D

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Originally Posted by Nameless

He can go out as one of the best of its generation but he's far from the all time top 20.

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Bit harse fella

He has beaten some world class fighters, never been beaten and if he can manage to win tonight and against pacquiao i would have to say he`d be up there with leonard, hagler, robinson

Him and pacquiao need eachother for either man to cement their legacys. The winner of that fight truly goes down as one of the all time greats!!

Ok another win, another world class demolition job.

So does this change anything? He's got to be creeping into the top 10 now surely?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok another win, another world class demolition job.

So does this change anything? He's got to be creeping into the top 10 now surely?

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...nope I could name several fighters that in their primes would have just destroyed Mayweather in his prime.