Haye one of worst heavyweight champs of all time?

looks like the klitscko fight is off once again, for me it is the only fight i am interested in well that & haye fighting vitali as well.

but lets look at haye!

he beats possibly one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time in valuev, who had really been beaten by ruiz & holyfield already in his defences. & its debatable if haye really beat valuev in the first place?

then hayes first defence is against ruiz, who also was one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time.

then he will not unify the title against either klitscko, after mouthing off @ every oportunity that this was reason he was stepping up to the heavyweights for?

fk me we have had some bad heavyweight champs since lewis retired (i do not include the klitscko bros in this tho)

i remember after bowe beat holyfield he fought dokes & ferguson & he got slated for them defences but @ least he beat a great champ to get the title in the first place.

personally for me haye is in same bracket as bruce seldon, henry akinwande and francesco damiani until he actually fights a half decent heavy

Hmm.. I don't man. I think it's too early to call him that. I mean, I wouldn't compare him to McCall or Golota just yet.

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Hmm.. I don't man. I think it's too early to call him that. I mean, I wouldn't compare him to McCall or Golota just yet.

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mccall beat lewis for the title & golota basically beat the crap outta bowe twice?

haye has been takin everyone for a ride, not sure if he ever really wanted to fight the klitscko's

i dunno but ruiz was bad..

A few david haye stats over his last seven fights.

The average age of his opponent is 35 years 4 months and 16 days. This would be much higher if you remove enzo from the list as he was 27 at the time of the fight.

Haye takes an average of 205 days between fights.

As a Heavyweight he has scored 12 knockdowns in four fights.

Make up your own mind.

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Originally Posted by fury

i dunno but ruiz was bad..

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Ruiz will be pretty tough to move away from the #1 spot of worst HW of all time actually.

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by fury

i dunno but ruiz was bad..

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Ruiz will be pretty tough to move away from the #1 spot of worst HW of all time actually.

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Ruiz is nowhere near the worst HW of all time. He might not have been exciting, but he was a good fighter. Only Tua, Jones & Haye have ever clearly beat him. Compared to the likes of Primo Carnera, Lee Savold, Gerrie Coetzee & Bruce Seldon, I think Ruiz isn't too bad.

How about Valuev? He was bad as well.

Chicken Little hasn't really gone after the best of the best even outside the Klitschko brothers...Ruiz is the best heavyweight Chicken Little has fought and if he fights Harrison then Ruiz will stay as the Chicken's toughest opponent and that is humorous and tragic at the same time.

Manny Steward was right about this guy, he's all bark, Wlad gave him a sweetheart deal and he turned his nose up at it....that's ok he'll get exposed soon enough either by a good fighter or by the quality of competition he chooses to fight

2 words.... Bruce Seldon

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Originally Posted by Bigdog1981

A few david haye stats over his last seven fights.

1) The average age of his opponent is 35 years 4 months and 16 days. This would be much higher if you remove enzo from the list as he was 27 at the time of the fight.

2) Haye takes an average of 205 days between fights.

3) As a Heavyweight he has scored 12 knockdowns in four fights.

Make up your own mind.

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To take your points in order, from an unconvinced but hopeful Haye fan.

1) The average age of fighters in the top 25 heavies is 32, and in a division where age isn't as much of a barrier (see Evander getting jobbed against Valuev) 35 years isn't that old.

2) Would you rather see him take the Klitschko method beating up no-hopers once a quarter in front of big crowds in Germany. He could easily earn his pension in that way, but has said it's only big fights he wants.

3) 12 knockdowns in four fights? I'm not sure I see the negative in this. He's a power puncher, doesn't wear down fighters like the 2k's. Knockdowns are a good thing in my book.

All I'm going to say is let the negotiating teams hammer it out. Like Mayweather v Pacquiao, there's too much money there for the fights not to get made. Eventually, it will talk, and the fights will get made.

Valuev and Seldon for me.

I gotta go either Valuev or one not mentioned...Buster Douglas.I mean at least all others gave themselves a chance to win in first defense and not go from physical phenom to gelatinous mess almost overnight.

Damiani was a WBO joke but could box like a fool and was schooling undefeated Ray Mercer,badly.Bruce seldon takes much flack after going school girl against Tyson but really...he had good hands,speed and a killer jab.His problem was a match stick chin and a chest full of purring kittens when it got tough.

Haye hasn't even finished his career yet. And has had what 4 HW fights ?

And I guess it must be an achievement in your eyes to go down as the worst HW champion of all time yet he must be one of the most exciting as well. Weird.

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Originally Posted by Lefty

Haye hasn't even finished his career yet. And has had what 4 HW fights ?

And I guess it must be an achievement in your eyes to go down as the worst HW champion of all time yet he must be one of the most exciting as well. Weird.

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Haye/Valuev will go down as one of the most boring HW fights of all time, and Haye/Ruiz barely got a buzz, so dunno how you can label him as one of the most exciting HW's

Nowhere near that IMO.
He packs a punch, he's exciting and he still hasn't retired...

The worst for me are Sharkey which in turn leads you to Carnera.
There's also room for Nikolay, Rahman & Thomas.

After all the talk, he is definitely a huge let down. All he ever wanted was a belt and a few pay days to finish off his career. Building himself up the way he did and not following through harms his reputation immeasurably. He has been talking smack for 2 years. 2 years!!! You can pass your A levels in that time. :rolleyes:

The problem with Chicken Little is that his talk doesn't match his actions...he talks Ali and walks Valuev and for the average fan of the sport it doesn't add up. We're (according to his own planned out future) more than 3/4ers through Chicken Little's career...is it a pretty record? Only 1 loss but I ask the age old questions "Who did he fight?" And "What did he prove?"

I also ask "What would Frank Bruno do?", if he was in the same situation. I think Bruno (regardless of what he thought his chances were) would fight both Klitschko's and take his whuppin like a man.

I would say he's a dissappointing champ. I think the guy has very little faith in himself to beat either of the klitchko's so i doubt he can too. The HW division is just a plain mess. I've simply just lost faith in the guy.

We havent seen the best of Him yet

I know he is talking a lot of smack and not exactly backing it up. But, I still think he is trying to market himself before his big farewell fight. But isn't it in our nature to be impatient? (I'm talking about you, fellow Americans)

I am just glad he made it through the easy part. Picking off some names here and there against top 10 heavyweights. If I were his management, I would not be putting him in there with Tua, Poketkin, Peterson, hell even Briggs. They are playing so damn safe... even worse than Khan! On;y difference is Khan has good opposition in his weight class on many levels.

[QUOTE=superheavyrhun;891324]

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Originally Posted by Bigdog1981

A few david haye stats over his last seven fights.

1) The average age of his opponent is 35 years 4 months and 16 days. This would be much higher if you remove enzo from the list as he was 27 at the time of the fight.

2) Haye takes an average of 205 days between fights.

3) As a Heavyweight he has scored 12 knockdowns in four fights.

Make up your own mind.

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To take your points in order, from an unconvinced but hopeful Haye fan.

1) The average age of fighters in the top 25 heavies is 32, and in a division where age isn't as much of a barrier (see Evander getting jobbed against Valuev) 35 years isn't that old.

2) Would you rather see him take the Klitschko method beating up no-hopers once a quarter in front of big crowds in Germany. He could easily earn his pension in that way, but has said it's only big fights he wants.

3) 12 knockdowns in four fights? I'm not sure I see the negative in this. He's a power puncher, doesn't wear down fighters like the 2k's. Knockdowns are a good thing in my book.

All I'm going to say is let the negotiating teams hammer it out. Like Mayweather v Pacquiao, there's too much money there for the fights not to get made. Eventually, it will talk, and the fights will get made.[/QUOTE




i Wasnt taking sides just stating the facts! Haye fights the older guys, takes a log time doing it, but knocks them down.

If haye wanted more respect he could have easily got it by earning it against the like of adamek or povetkin, both would make great fights then brothers klit would have no choice but at a fight. But instead his mouth is a year well before his head and povetkin is in there first and id put money on adamek beating him to the the klits too. hayes opponet list with out the above four? tua, chambers, arreola. And who says the heavys is dead.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by fury

i dunno but ruiz was bad..

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Ruiz will be pretty tough to move away from the #1 spot of worst HW of all time actually.

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Ruiz is nowhere near the worst HW of all time. He might not have been exciting, but he was a good fighter. Only Tua, Jones & Haye have ever clearly beat him. Compared to the likes of Primo Carnera, Lee Savold, Gerrie Coetzee & Bruce Seldon, I think Ruiz isn't too bad.

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Carnera and Seldon were quite bad, probablyworst but the jab jab grab is giving me skin rashes but yeah, he was bad but not in the top 5 yet probably.

Let's take a close look at just who the guy has fought at heavyweight.....

Tomaz Bonin: 34 years old; 37(20 KO)-1; Just 3 short years earlier AUDLEY HARRISON TKO'd Bonin and aside from heavyweight door mat Garing Lane, Harrison is still the ONLY heavyweight I know of on his entire record....so that 37 wins looks more like "37 wins" because it looks like he never fought anyone and for good reason

Monte Barrett: 37 years old; 34 (20 KO)-6; They fought in 2008, Monte caught his "2nd wind of a prime" in 2003-2004 with wins over Domonick Guinn and Owen Beck (which meant something at the time) and a close loss to Joe Mesi prior to that in 1999 he lost a razor thin decision to Lance Whittaker (once again that USED to mean something) and in 2000 Wlad dropped him 5 times stopping him in 7....Barrett recovered to become a tomato can but he was "well done" before the fight vs Chicken Little...Odlainer Solis stopped him in 2 rounds right after "The Yellow One"

Nicolay Valuev: 36 years old; 50 (34 KO)-1; never really had a "prime" or "signature win" mainly just a whole lot of very close decisions. An ANCIENT Evander Holyfield got robbed vs the giant right before Chicken Little got to Valuev....so take from this win what you will, Valuev was another WBA strap holder that flat out refused to fight anyone worth a damn.

John Ruiz: 38 years old; 44 (30 KO)-8-1; was 6-4 with 1 no contest in his last 11 fights going into his fight vs Chicken Little.....his "prime" if he had one was from 2000-2001 where he Lost, Won, and Drew vs an old Evander Holyfield.

So basically what I'm saying is this dude calls out Wladimir Klitschko and Vitali Klitschko and he has yet to even fight a guy like Eddie Chambers or Cris Arreola....at least those dudes had the guts to fight the best of the best.

You can't talk all that shit and then fight those guys he fought and expect me as a fan to be in awe of his skill....he fought OLD fighters but I guess this time, unlike vs Carl Thompson he actually pulled out wins.

Hahah as you all probably no I think he is a clever fraud, but the worst wtf?? How the fuck can you judge?? He is 29 holds the WBA title and unbeaton at heavyweight and still going strong? Bit silly really.

The fact that this is even a topic of argument says it all.....

Well of course he's a garbage heavyweight.....What did you expect.......He's English!

not a chance. i think he suffers because of lack of depth in the division. hes beaten valuev who I might add was tipped to beat Haye. He breaks down Ruiz in his first defence. say that you want about Ruiz but apart from Tua no-one stops him.

Hes suffering at the moment because of the Klitschko fights falling through. too early to even consider Haye for this dubious accolade

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Originally Posted by LBSCFC

not a chance. i think he suffers because of lack of depth in the division. hes beaten valuev who I might add was tipped to beat Haye. He breaks down Ruiz in his first defence. say that you want about Ruiz but apart from Tua no-one stops him.

Hes suffering at the moment because of the Klitschko fights falling through. too early to even consider Haye for this dubious accolade

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haye only has himself to blame for the klitscho fights fallin thru! he needs to take the smaller percentage (cos he is soooo confident he will win) then he can fight the other brother for a 50/50 split then if he gets thru them fights alive & with all the titles he will become one of the best heavy since lewis!" simples

Wladimir gave the Diva EXACTLY what he wanted in a contract 50/50 with no rematch clauses or promotional ties or anything....and what did Wladimir get? A fight vs Alexander Povetkin, that's all anyone needs to understand about the situation. The Diva may be the biggest fight for Wlad but Wlad is 100% the absolute biggest fight for the Diva and Wlad has sold out 50K+ arenas to watch him fight Eddie Chambers so let's chill out with the whole Napoleon complex....ironic that the Brits would suffer from that

the klitsckos dont need to fight haye in my opinion but haye needs to fight @ least one of the klitscko's.

From what I have read Klits offered straight down the line 50/50 which is more than fair, But Haye and Booth wanted to keep all the English ppv money.

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Originally Posted by skel1983

From what I have read Klits offered straight down the line 50/50 which is more than fair, But Haye and Booth wanted to keep all the English ppv money.

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if this fight never happens & then the brothers retire they can claim to be the best since lewis retired

but haye can never claim to be the real heavyweight champ

haye needs to back up all that talk now with some action

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by fury

i dunno but ruiz was bad..

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Ruiz will be pretty tough to move away from the #1 spot of worst HW of all time actually.

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Ruiz is nowhere near the worst HW of all time. He might not have been exciting, but he was a good fighter. Only Tua, Jones & Haye have ever clearly beat him. Compared to the likes of Primo Carnera, Lee Savold, Gerrie Coetzee & Bruce Seldon, I think Ruiz isn't too bad.

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Carnera and Seldon were quite bad, probablyworst but the jab jab grab is giving me skin rashes but yeah, he was bad but not in the top 5 yet probably.

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On paper, Leon Spinks is unquestionably the worst HW champion of all time.

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Originally Posted by Drago

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Originally Posted by skel1983

From what I have read Klits offered straight down the line 50/50 which is more than fair, But Haye and Booth wanted to keep all the English ppv money.

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if this fight never happens & then the brothers retire they can claim to be the best since lewis retired

but haye can never claim to be the real heavyweight champ

haye needs to back up all that talk now with some action

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There is the problem when he is going on the likes of Alan Carr's chat shows and the cock telling everyone he is the Heavyweight Champ and giving the impression Haye is the second coming of Ali, he can earn top doller fighting fucking bums like Harrison.

If all he wants to do is be heavyweight champ of England then yeah...I think he'll end up like Valuev or Ruiz and just fight guys in the WBA top 5. Everyone knows how the WBA works, THEY (WBA, Don King, Sauerland) keep their heavyweight title holder out of unification bouts on purpose (so they don't lose any power although no one rates their belt anyway).

If he just wants to be a fraud or risk getting picked off by someone like Ruslan Chagaev then fine by me, the fans (some of them will hold out, like Lefty) will see him as a chicken shit coward.

i think the opinion of the average man in the street is i that haye is unbeatable

but anyone who knows anything abt boxing knows that he is far from that

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Originally Posted by Drago

i think the opinion of the average man in the street is i that haye is unbeatable

but anyone who knows anything abt boxing knows that he is far from that

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I think his skill is overrated but no doubt he's talented...I just think his fans get a little "happy" with describing how good he is.

I just don't like his attitude

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Drago

i think the opinion of the average man in the street is i that haye is unbeatable

but anyone who knows anything abt boxing knows that he is far from that

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I think his skill is overrated but no doubt he's talented...I just think his fans get a little "happy" with describing how good he is.

I just don't like his attitude

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thats cos most of his fans know fk all abt boxing

I think the celebrity had got him, I believe he genuinley went into the HW division intending on fighting the Klitschkos and cleaning it up, then he realised he'd struck a money pit and the new lifestyle was too good.

Now he's happy creaming it and wants to milk it longer.

I can't blame him, I really can't. But as a boxing fan I want to see fight talk backed up. If you offer someone out, you just get the fights made.

He creates such a charade about everything, in an attempt to draw interest which he does. But he does have a genuine talent, but his mouth runs away with itself.

klits v haye will happen

it is all building up to a mega payday

Haye will have probably one more fight and then fight one of them

and you are all saying he is happy fighting bums and nobodies but who should he fight next?

harrison? rahman? these are the names i am hearing, areola? there isnt exactly a lot of choice