Extending Arms - Shadow Boxing

Hey guys,

I've been getting into the habit of not extending my punches all the way through when I shadow box. I tend to be focusing on speed (especially with the jab) and I focus on throwing it out and pulling it back fast.

Today, my cousin who's been boxing for about a year and a half watched me shadow box and he kept calling me out on not extending my punches.

He said you should always extend your jab when you shadow box. Or else throwing short range punches will become habitual and I wont be using my reach effectively.

Fair enough that makes sense.. But when I watch a vid like Scrap's So You Want Fast Hands, it doesn't seem like the fighters are fully extending their arms, and I trust that there is some sort of wisdom behind that.

I know I've read several times that speed comes from the first 3" of every movement... and shadow boxing is based on building great technique and speed. So how do you apply that concept without getting into the habit of always throwing short range punches?

... So basically I guess all I'm asking is....

Do you suggest always extending your punches while shadow boxing? Why or Why Not?

Thanks

I heard you shouldnt fully extend because of injury. I dont know tho. I keep my hands loose and extend my fingers sometimes to loosen up.

Ask yourself this, if you had a car that had broken down, how would your arms be to push it. So you wouldnt tighten the Tendons or do the Joints damage. Trouble starts with bad maintainanace of Tendons tightening mostly through shock, bringing bad alinement of muscle and joints.

^^ I'd probably just call a tow truck ;D

.. but yea, that makes sense, you would definitely not want to have ur arms fully extended at all.

To be honest, I felt really unnatural when I was fully extending my arms.. it just didn't feel right. But I figured it was just because I was used to throwing quick short shots while I shadow box...

But now, how would u stop yourself from getting into the habit of throwing short range punches and flurries all the time.. I'm a pretty small guy with 67" reach so I need to learn to utilize my range to the best of my ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Student

Hey guys,

I've been getting into the habit of not extending my punches all the way through when I shadow box. I tend to be focusing on speed (especially with the jab) and I focus on throwing it out and pulling it back fast.

Today, my cousin who's been boxing for about a year and a half watched me shadow box and he kept calling me out on not extending my punches.

He said you should always extend your jab when you shadow box. Or else throwing short range punches will become habitual and I wont be using my reach effectively.

Fair enough that makes sense.. But when I watch a vid like Scrap's So You Want Fast Hands, it doesn't seem like the fighters are fully extending their arms, and I trust that there is some sort of wisdom behind that.

I know I've read several times that speed comes from the first 3" of every movement... and shadow boxing is based on building great technique and speed. So how do you apply that concept without getting into the habit of always throwing short range punches?

... So basically I guess all I'm asking is....

Do you suggest always extending your punches while shadow boxing? Why or Why Not?

Thanks

---

I do extend -- I will only throw as hard (or as fast) as I can do this without undue shock on my elbow (or even shoulder).

Much of my training comes from Systema (Russian Martial Arts) where every effort is made to remove ALL unnecessary tension from every punch -- and this includes never stopping a punch through muscle power since that would by necessity mean SLOWING DOWN the PUNCH and adding INHIBITORY TENSION to the OPPOSING muscles.

You literally "throw" the punches and let them go ballistically -- within the limits of not doing joint damage when punching the air.

On the bag, you ensure this by making the BAG STOP EVERY PUNCH -- I do not stop the punch, the bag does.

This ensure DEEP HEAVY punches.

This also means you can get really hard punches from really short movements too -- you use nothing put extension, with no hold back and your short punches will get really fast and hard also.

Even though I am still a boxing beginner (8 months), most who works with me spontaneously mention how HEAVY my punches are.

Let 'em go.

--
HerbM

When I push a car, if my memory serves me right, I lock my arms with palms down. So the shoulder and elbows are locked and stop the bicep from working as the antagonist muscle. If the arms are pumped out as they should be in Technique sessions with good form, there shouldnt be a problem. If there is its bad technique

hmm, ok something is definitely wrong with my form then.. gotta continue working on that.

and yes, I dont know what the hell I was thinking when I wrote my last post.. always got to have ur arms locked and use your leg muscles to push a car.

Would it be a good idea to get someone to video tape me shadow boxing, and post it up and get pointers?

I just hate being on videos that are open for viewing on the internet, but I guess that's something I might have to deal with to get some good critiquing of my form and technique.

Thanks guys

Part of the issue might be in using shadow boxing to practice speed and power -- instead of using it primarily for perfecting your form, movement, and chaining together smooth combinations.

if you shoot you hands out at top speed and power with nothing to stop them then you are likely going to be putting a lot of stress on your joints (esp. elbow and perhaps shoulder), or you are going to be training in a lot of counter-tension and/or bad form by stopping those punches short using muscle power.

Either you practice perfect form or you are practicing to do it imperfectly. What sense does it make to be practicing to do something incorrectly?

Practice speed and power (in the best form you can manage) against the bag. Practice perfecting your form and combinations by shadow boxing while relaxing.

--
HerbM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HerbM

Either you practice perfect form or you are practicing to do it imperfectly. What sense does it make to be practicing to do something incorrectly?

Practice speed and power (in the best form you can manage) against the bag. Practice perfecting your form and combinations by shadow boxing while relaxing.

--
HerbM

---

That makes a lot of sense actually.. Thanks for the advice!

Hey guys

Interesting thread. When throwing straight shots, extend your arms...end of story! Whether you're shadow boxing, hitting bags, sparring or fighting, straight shots must incorporate an extended arm. A tip that I try to reinforce in our boxers: when shadow boxing, put an imaginary head and body in front of you. Accelerate the shot, any shot, onto the target and 'snap' it onto the chin/under the ribs without punching through the target. This helps with speed and power and if the technique is correct (weight going onto back leg) you'll never go off-balance when you miss a shot during fighting/sparring.

It's all good!

Fran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fran@myboxingcoach

if the technique is correct (weight going onto back leg) you'll never go off-balance when you miss a shot during fighting/sparring.

---

wasn't the weight transfer from the back leg to the front leg, while throwing straight punches ????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fran@myboxingcoach

[...]Accelerate the shot, any shot, onto the target and 'snap' it onto the chin/under the ribs without punching through the target.[...]

---

This makes it SOUND like punching to the target, hitting on the surface, rather than punching into the target, and I am pretty sure you don't mean that, so would you please elaborate and explain what you mean by not 'punching through the target'?

Thanks,

--
HerbM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by badr_hari

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fran@myboxingcoach

if the technique is correct (weight going onto back leg) you'll never go off-balance when you miss a shot during fighting/sparring.

---

wasn't the weight transfer from the back leg to the front leg, while throwing straight punches ????

---

In general, you don't want to transfer weight onto the front foot when punching; it makes you very vulnerable and decreases you mobility for avoiding what comes at you next.

This is especially important when you MISS (as Fran was pointing out) because then the tendency is even stronger to transfer weight there even more strongly (since there is not contact to help you stop the motion) and thus makes the problem worse for misses.

--
HerbM

You can't generate power with a straight right by transferring your weight to your back foot.

Shadowboxing is a great way to develop speed and power as long as you are focusing on technique first. The best way to throw fluid and fast combinations is to practice them shadowboxing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jahmez

You can't generate power with a straight right by transferring your weight to your back foot.

---

totally right. If you don't transfer your weight from the back foot to the front foot your RIGHT HAND or even your JAB will be an ARM PUNCH with NO POWER.

And that's why you pivot with your right foot when you throw a right cross (on the balls of your feet), it helps with two things: gives the space for the rotation of the hips and the shoulders. That's why Scrap says the right foot is for power and the left foot is for direction - balance. To stay Balanced while throwing a Powerful right hand its recommended to make a TINY STEP to the LEFT. With this move even if you miss a very powerful right hand you won't be off-balanced.

Another way, this is just a clue as regards straight shots, any for that matter. What stops the tricep from working to its max is the muscle which is its antagonist, the Bicep. Now there are stretches that stop this and interesting ones they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrap

Another way, this is just a clue as regards straight shots, any for that matter. What stops the tricep from working to its max is the muscle which is its antagonist, the Bicep. Now there are stretches that stop this and interesting ones they are.

---

Scrap, one of the stretches you posted for me actually helped a lot. I've noticed a strong correlation between punching speed and the amount of time I spend doing stretches.


But what are your thoughts on the transfer of weight between legs while you punch?

At first I figured it made sense, but lately I find more and more I'm comfortable keeping most my weight on my back leg, even while throwing shots. I feel that some weight naturally transfers to the front but, too much throws me off balance.

The other day I had a guy tell me to keep my weight always evenly distributed between both legs, and to never step or pivot with the jab and to always maintain that balance between the two legs... and at this point I'm pretty confused as to what the correct way is.

I dont want to build habits that are technically incorrect, regardless of how comfortable I am doing it.

valuable thread, thank you. - may even print this one out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Student

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrap

Another way, this is just a clue as regards straight shots, any for that matter. What stops the tricep from working to its max is the muscle which is its antagonist, the Bicep. Now there are stretches that stop this and interesting ones they are.

---

Scrap, one of the stretches you posted for me actually helped a lot. I've noticed a strong correlation between punching speed and the amount of time I spend doing stretches.


But what are your thoughts on the transfer of weight between legs while you punch?

At first I figured it made sense, but lately I find more and more I'm comfortable keeping most my weight on my back leg, even while throwing shots. I feel that some weight naturally transfers to the front but, too much throws me off balance.

The other day I had a guy tell me to keep my weight always evenly distributed between both legs, and to never step or pivot with the jab and to always maintain that balance between the two legs... and at this point I'm pretty confused as to what the correct way is.

I dont want to build habits that are technically incorrect, regardless of how comfortable I am doing it.

---

Student or Scrap can you please tell me where the stretches are you are talking about in this post?!?!?!?!

Cambay please see the quote below, plus the link at the bottom.. there's a whole topic on scrap's stretching program... some great stuff there!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrap

okay you did weights, at a guess i would think the muscles that oppose the action of the jab the frontal muscles of the shoulder want losening and stretching. Look at scraps stretches try the stick one you can do it with a woody band. Now another you can try is put your hands to your side. Palms facing forward then pushing your shouders back, put one of your hands behind you and put it on the forearm 4 inch above the wrist of the other arm. Now push up with the straight arm and resists with the other arm and hand, while raising, when at 90% start coming down with the bent arm and resist with the other arm 3 times each side that should sort it after 2 weeks of doing it the jab should be a lot faster. Do it 2 times a day.

---

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...programme.html

Awsome stretches i recommend everyone to read this if you get a chance. Student believe it or not im haveing a hard time understanding the stretch described in your quote lol. I imagine one forearm across my back grabbing my other arm and then using a motion like a shoulder shrug while resisting with the arm and hand grabbing that arm. Is this wrong?

to be honest I had a tough time understanding it as well.. Sometimes Scraps descriptions take some time do decipher, but they're well worth the time spent trying to understand.

I'll try and explain it, BUT keep in mind I might be doing it wrong as well...

1) stand casually with both your hands to the side, but your palm facing forward instead of facing your body like you would normally stand)

2) reach behind your back your back with one hand (left for this example) and grab your right forearm about 4 inches above your forearm (I'd say about half way between the wrist and the elbow

note: for this step, make sure while grabbing your forearm, your palm is facing outward to the front of your body (or to put it another way have ur palms facing the direction you are looking), If you were to naturally reach around and grab your forearm you would have your palm facing backward.

3) once you have a grip of your right forearm, slowly start lefting your arm by bending at the elbow as if your doing a slow bicep curl.

4) once you have gone up 90% of full motion in your right arm slowly bring it back down to your side

5) repeat above steps with opposite arm

6) do it 3 times for each side

7) do it twice a day



.. hope that helps.. Scrap can correct me if I'm wrong.. good luck

Shoulers and kneck back at all times, Theres a better one than that, well a few but youre not getting them ;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Student

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrap

Another way, this is just a clue as regards straight shots, any for that matter. What stops the tricep from working to its max is the muscle which is its antagonist, the Bicep. Now there are stretches that stop this and interesting ones they are.

---

Scrap, one of the stretches you posted for me actually helped a lot. I've noticed a strong correlation between punching speed and the amount of time I spend doing stretches.


But what are your thoughts on the transfer of weight between legs while you punch?

At first I figured it made sense, but lately I find more and more I'm comfortable keeping most my weight on my back leg, even while throwing shots. I feel that some weight naturally transfers to the front but, too much throws me off balance.

The other day I had a guy tell me to keep my weight always evenly distributed between both legs, and to never step or pivot with the jab and to always maintain that balance between the two legs... and at this point I'm pretty confused as to what the correct way is.

I dont want to build habits that are technically incorrect, regardless of how comfortable I am doing it.

---

This is the key to throwing a right hand and staying in good balance student keeping majority of the weight on the back leg and the front foot on the ball ready to explode off to return quickly back to on guard position after extending the right hand, if the left foots not up on the ball theres gonna be a lot of problems, as scrap refers to it as leaving on the biomechanical brake (the heel) which will result in a slow/lazy right hand, also like you said if you transfer to the front leg/plant the left heel your prone to being off balance or maybe not so much off balance just having too much weight distributed to the front leg which will slow down any evasive movement you may need if the right hand is being countered or a new angle has being established. basically you lose the ability to drive from the back foot as good and will also mess up the rotation of the pelvis towards the end of the shot which will result in an arm punch .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WayneFlint

This is the key to throwing a right hand and staying in good balance student keeping majority of the weight on the back leg and the front foot on the ball ready to explode off to return quickly back to on guard position after extending the right hand, if the left foots not up on the ball theres gonna be a lot of problems, as scrap refers to it as leaving on the biomechanical brake (the heel) which will result in a slow/lazy right hand, also like you said if you transfer to the front leg/plant the left heel your prone to being off balance or maybe not so much off balance just having too much weight distributed to the front leg which will slow down any evasive movement you may need if the right hand is being countered or a new angle has being established. basically you lose the ability to drive from the back foot as good and will also mess up the rotation of the pelvis towards the end of the shot which will result in an arm punch .

---

sorry, but what you said is EXACTLY The Key for throwing an ARM PUNCH.

for a Powerful Right Hand (with the whole body-weight behind it) you should: Pivot with a right foot and with that automatically you transfer the weight from back to front (you can't Pivot with the back leg, stay up on the ball of the feet and still have the weight here), in the same time you make a TINY STEP-in to the left, which is the key to everything: Gives Great Balance, Maximum Power and your head will be in a position almost impossibly to counter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C6xE...eature=related

at 5:28 in this video, you see that very Tiny step with the left foot and the PIVOT with the right

The front Heel shouldnt be involved in the manouver, the front Heel is the Biomechanical Break. The Balance of the manouver are the Knees The Heel locks the Adductors stopping the Abductors from working . Thats what causes leaning with the shots, and loss of oral stability and balance. Usually caused with the feet being to wide, and compensating, making the shoulders tighten and slowing down speed of delivery.

So hold on guys, let me get this straight.. and please correct me if I' wrong.


From my understanding of it.. The heel of your back leg (or your right for orthodox boxers) should never ever touch the ground. You should always be on the balls correct?

Now, in order to throw an effective straight shot, your front (or your left) heel should never touch the ground either.. meaning that a proper boxing stance would require you to always be on the balls of your feet and never let your heels touch the ground?

If thats the case, that's one of the things I need to work on, my left heel seems to be on the ground, often.

Thanks for all the hep so far guys!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Student

So hold on guys, let me get this straight.. and please correct me if I' wrong.


From my understanding of it.. The heel of your back leg (or your right for orthodox boxers) should never ever touch the ground. You should always be on the balls correct?

ABSOLUTELY, When throwing a right hand, your back foot pivots and automatically you are on the ball of your feet. Watch every great proffessional boxer from any era throwing a right hand, The heel of their back leg NEVER TOUCHES THE GROUND


Now, in order to throw an effective straight shot, your front (or your left) heel should never touch the ground either.. meaning that a proper boxing stance would require you to always be on the balls of your feet and never let your heels touch the ground?

I am not sure about this one, a PROPER right hand should be thrown that way definitely with the left leg on the balls of your feet, but i have seen great champions knocking people out with thair left heel on the ground

If thats the case, that's one of the things I need to work on, my left heel seems to be on the ground, often.

TRY TO DO A TINY STEP-in to the left (WITH THE LEFT LEG) a little bit when you throw a Right Cross. You will never be OFF-BALANCED, you will generate maximum power and your head won't be a target for a counter-punch

Thanks for all the hep so far guys

---

....

Badri hari When you say step in, do you mean step in to your opponent or the inside of your body? I assume in to your opponent has in angles? If yes then i agree this step in would be proper technique, it is one of the many angles that any fighter should learn and come to love. They are simple but to use them effectively takes alot of practice. And yes i pretty much stay on the balls of my feet the whole time.


Here is exactly how i throw my straight right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBMLh...eature=related

Obviously, its not all the time, out off distance, or up close things change. Plus its tiring to maintain. But if when defending or attacking it applies.Reason being thetensor fasciae latae, when the knee is bent and the Heel is raised it activates qiucker response from it. Its this the TFL that the abductors work off and get the message to react with speed and power.

Also as far as shift in wieght, there will be small shifts in wieght through the whole match but no matter where your wieght is you should be able to stay balanced. Your balance comes with proper stance. If i step in with that striaght right and have a small amount of more wieght on that front foot, i still have enough balance to throw a left uppercut, then right hook and make a quick evasive exscape.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by badr_hari

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jahmez

You can't generate power with a straight right by transferring your weight to your back foot.

---

totally right. If you don't transfer your weight from the back foot to the front foot your RIGHT HAND or even your JAB will be an ARM PUNCH with NO POWER.

And that's why you pivot with your right foot when you throw a right cross (on the balls of your feet), it helps with two things: gives the space for the rotation of the hips and the shoulders. That's why Scrap says the right foot is for power and the left foot is for direction - balance. To stay Balanced while throwing a Powerful right hand its recommended to make a TINY STEP to the LEFT. With this move even if you miss a very powerful right hand you won't be off-balanced.

---

I'm not going to pretend to understand the minutae of detail that this thread has gone to, but I will try to respond with regards to basic technical form. Whilst you are in the ring with average, run of the mill type opponents, then you may well get away with throwing your weight onto your front leg when throwing a straight right hand (or any other back hand shot). However, as soon as you're in the company of someone who knows what they are doing, they will detach you from your senses without too much effort. By throwing your weight forward, you absolutely do not 'add power', all you do is increase the impact of any incoming shots thrown by your opponent.

Now, whilst the right cross is technically a power shot, in all honesty I haven't seen that many right hand KOs over the years (Tommy Hearns, Julian Jackson maybe). The majority of KOs come from hooks. So, a short range right hook is the ultimate power shot. Take a look at this video covering the short range right hook and notice that there is no weight transfer to the front leg. The front leg bends, but this is only to accommodate the rotation of the hips and shouldn't be confused with a transfer of weight; the power in the shot comes from the thrust of the back leg and the resultant 'whiplash' action.

In response to Herb re: punching through the target. I do agree that a boxer should punch through the target, but only by an inch or two. I believe that the target should be the target and the culmination of body movements will deliver an appropriately effective shot. What I actually meant was when you see some boxers shadow box, and they throw hooks that don't seem to have a point of impact and will travel past where the opponent's head would be and off for a foot or more! It gets on my nerves and is less than useless!

OK, rant over. I'm off now to reply to another of Herb's posts...I better get another coffee!

Fran

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cambay411

Also as far as shift in wieght, there will be small shifts in wieght through the whole match but no matter where your wieght is you should be able to stay balanced. Your balance comes with proper stance. If i step in with that striaght right and have a small amount of more wieght on that front foot, i still have enough balance to throw a left uppercut, then right hook and make a quick evasive exscape.

---

this

to Fran: i saw your right cross instructional video, and You are throwing a Perfect Right Hand (with the Left heel on the GROUND) and WITHOUT doing the tiny step in/left. Nothing wrong with it, its just perfect
But me and cambay411 were talkin about a Right Hand with a tiny step in/left, which makes it more powerful without losing any kind of BALANCE and DEFENSE

in the right cross video (not right hook), you were standing on YOUR TOES (with the right foot, while your left was planted) and said that im keeping the weight in the centre. While the weight after the punch was: 65% front leg, 35% back leg at most.

Badr

I'm impressed that that you feel you can judge the distribution of my body weight with such accuracy. As I said, don't confuse a bent leg with a leg that has body weight transferred over it. The point is that the body rotates around a central axis and does not 'follow' the punch. However, if you wish to transfer your body weight to your front leg, go right ahead and I wish you the very best of luck!

In terms of my left foot, I think 'planted' is off the mark. The height of the heel on the front foot is not as great as the back, but the front foot is not intended to be flat or planted. This is not to say that having a flat front foot is wrong and in fact in the pro game it's quite common. In the amateur code though, having a flat front foot reduces mobility and mobility is key to success.

Thanks for the views mate.

Cheers

Fran

As far as being open for a counter when you take that step into your opponent, as long as you are balanced and have your hands up (which is essintial when working angles) you will be in no more danger than usual. Not to say that not stepping is wrong. There are techniques that are wrong but at the same time there is more than one right technique. I watched your vids fran and your techniques looked good to me. In fact thats pretty much how i throw a straight when im not neccessarily worried about power. Not to say you cant get good power with that technique. Also i use that step in to create that angle, its a great way to get in, then spin out. I also agree fran that just because a foot looks like there is wieght on it does not mean there is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by badr_hari

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WayneFlint

This is the key to throwing a right hand and staying in good balance student keeping majority of the weight on the back leg and the front foot on the ball ready to explode off to return quickly back to on guard position after extending the right hand, if the left foots not up on the ball theres gonna be a lot of problems, as scrap refers to it as leaving on the biomechanical brake (the heel) which will result in a slow/lazy right hand, also like you said if you transfer to the front leg/plant the left heel your prone to being off balance or maybe not so much off balance just having too much weight distributed to the front leg which will slow down any evasive movement you may need if the right hand is being countered or a new angle has being established. basically you lose the ability to drive from the back foot as good and will also mess up the rotation of the pelvis towards the end of the shot which will result in an arm punch .

---

sorry, but what you said is EXACTLY The Key for throwing an ARM PUNCH.

for a Powerful Right Hand (with the whole body-weight behind it) you should: Pivot with a right foot and with that automatically you transfer the weight from back to front (you can't Pivot with the back leg, stay up on the ball of the feet and still have the weight here), in the same time you make a TINY STEP-in to the left, which is the key to everything: Gives Great Balance, Maximum Power and your head will be in a position almost impossibly to counter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C6xEo-ijH0&feature=related

at 5:28 in this video, you see that very Tiny step with the left foot and the PIVOT with the right

---

Wrong, that is how YOU would throw an arm punch, i was simply explaining parts of the punch however i didnt mention 1 major trigger which i assumed even the most novice of boxers would know about (sorry about that) adds an explosive trigger for the right hand and which will also put the bones/joints of your arm/upper body in a position upon impact that will ensure your bones bear the kickback of the impact rather than the muscles, minimising risk of losing power from the elbow, wrist or shoulder jonts. if you know anything about throwing a punch you will be able to tell me what this trigger is that i missed out.. if not?.. hmm.

Im sorry if you think this impossible but i assure you i can pivot on my back foot while keeping almost all my weight on there and this is the way a fast, powerful right hand is thrown, but yes your probably right what seperates the best of the best quality right hands is that little step you keep talking about that hardly any boxers can master because its so technicel (darn that little step its so hard to master...), not the fact that some fighters have the co ordination and balance to do things you cant, so simply percieve as being impossible for others aswell/wrong.

Oh yes and your so right no one can possibly counter you with that little step its amazing i cant believe i never thought of it myself... im pretty sure if you tried that on me or anyone else thats been boxing 4 month youd be in trouble, id load up a right uppercut on you that your grandkids would feel and you would turn square into it, or id simply slip to my left and come back with a left hand you would never see because of this great angle youve just made. trying to make an angle as wreckless as that would get you killed in the ring with a good fighter.

Oh yeh and to pick a right hand out of a video like that means nothing, i havent wasted my time watching it but i can assure you hes not simply using that step as an angle and that some conciderable amount of setting up has probably gone into walking his opponent into that punch/angle, a good boxer is thinking a few moves deep, its just not as simple as your implying, i wish it was... lol

So Wayne are you for the step or totally against the step? lol

Also i agree nothing is impossibe to counter thats why if you use that angle you have to keep your hands up and make sure to maintain good balance. No matter what you throw something is going to open up.