Extending Arms - Shadow Boxing

[Scrap]

Obviously, its not all the time, out off distance, or up close things change. Plus its tiring to maintain. But if when defending or attacking it applies.Reason being thetensor fasciae latae, when the knee is bent and the Heel is raised it activates qiucker response from it. Its this the TFL that the abductors work off and get the message to react with speed and power.

[cambay411]

Also as far as shift in wieght, there will be small shifts in wieght through the whole match but no matter where your wieght is you should be able to stay balanced. Your balance comes with proper stance. If i step in with that striaght right and have a small amount of more wieght on that front foot, i still have enough balance to throw a left uppercut, then right hook and make a quick evasive exscape.

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

You can't generate power with a straight right by transferring your weight to your back foot.

totally right. If you don't transfer your weight from the back foot to the front foot your RIGHT HAND or even your JAB will be an ARM PUNCH with NO POWER.

And that's why you pivot with your right foot when you throw a right cross (on the balls of your feet), it helps with two things: gives the space for the rotation of the hips and the shoulders. That's why Scrap says the right foot is for power and the left foot is for direction - balance. To stay Balanced while throwing a Powerful right hand its recommended to make a TINY STEP to the LEFT. With this move even if you miss a very powerful right hand you won't be off-balanced.

I'm not going to pretend to understand the minutae of detail that this thread has gone to, but I will try to respond with regards to basic technical form. Whilst you are in the ring with average, run of the mill type opponents, then you may well get away with throwing your weight onto your front leg when throwing a straight right hand (or any other back hand shot). However, as soon as you're in the company of someone who knows what they are doing, they will detach you from your senses without too much effort. By throwing your weight forward, you absolutely do not 'add power', all you do is increase the impact of any incoming shots thrown by your opponent.

Now, whilst the right cross is technically a power shot, in all honesty I haven't seen that many right hand KOs over the years (Tommy Hearns, Julian Jackson maybe). The majority of KOs come from hooks. So, a short range right hook is the ultimate power shot. Take a look at this video covering the short range right hook and notice that there is no weight transfer to the front leg. The front leg bends, but this is only to accommodate the rotation of the hips and shouldn't be confused with a transfer of weight; the power in the shot comes from the thrust of the back leg and the resultant 'whiplash' action.

In response to Herb re: punching through the target. I do agree that a boxer should punch through the target, but only by an inch or two. I believe that the target should be the target and the culmination of body movements will deliver an appropriately effective shot. What I actually meant was when you see some boxers shadow box, and they throw hooks that don't seem to have a point of impact and will travel past where the opponent's head would be and off for a foot or more! It gets on my nerves and is less than useless!

OK, rant over. I'm off now to reply to another of Herb's posts...I better get another coffee!

Fran

[badr_hari]

Also as far as shift in wieght, there will be small shifts in wieght through the whole match but no matter where your wieght is you should be able to stay balanced. Your balance comes with proper stance. If i step in with that striaght right and have a small amount of more wieght on that front foot, i still have enough balance to throw a left uppercut, then right hook and make a quick evasive exscape.

this

to Fran: i saw your right cross instructional video, and You are throwing a Perfect Right Hand (with the Left heel on the GROUND) and WITHOUT doing the tiny step in/left. Nothing wrong with it, its just perfect
But me and cambay411 were talkin about a Right Hand with a tiny step in/left, which makes it more powerful without losing any kind of BALANCE and DEFENSE

in the right cross video (not right hook), you were standing on YOUR TOES (with the right foot, while your left was planted) and said that im keeping the weight in the centre. While the weight after the punch was: 65% front leg, 35% back leg at most.

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

Badr

I'm impressed that that you feel you can judge the distribution of my body weight with such accuracy. As I said, don't confuse a bent leg with a leg that has body weight transferred over it. The point is that the body rotates around a central axis and does not 'follow' the punch. However, if you wish to transfer your body weight to your front leg, go right ahead and I wish you the very best of luck!

In terms of my left foot, I think 'planted' is off the mark. The height of the heel on the front foot is not as great as the back, but the front foot is not intended to be flat or planted. This is not to say that having a flat front foot is wrong and in fact in the pro game it's quite common. In the amateur code though, having a flat front foot reduces mobility and mobility is key to success.

Thanks for the views mate.

Cheers

Fran

[cambay411]

As far as being open for a counter when you take that step into your opponent, as long as you are balanced and have your hands up (which is essintial when working angles) you will be in no more danger than usual. Not to say that not stepping is wrong. There are techniques that are wrong but at the same time there is more than one right technique. I watched your vids fran and your techniques looked good to me. In fact thats pretty much how i throw a straight when im not neccessarily worried about power. Not to say you cant get good power with that technique. Also i use that step in to create that angle, its a great way to get in, then spin out. I also agree fran that just because a foot looks like there is wieght on it does not mean there is.

[WayneFlint]

This is the key to throwing a right hand and staying in good balance student keeping majority of the weight on the back leg and the front foot on the ball ready to explode off to return quickly back to on guard position after extending the right hand, if the left foots not up on the ball theres gonna be a lot of problems, as scrap refers to it as leaving on the biomechanical brake (the heel) which will result in a slow/lazy right hand, also like you said if you transfer to the front leg/plant the left heel your prone to being off balance or maybe not so much off balance just having too much weight distributed to the front leg which will slow down any evasive movement you may need if the right hand is being countered or a new angle has being established. basically you lose the ability to drive from the back foot as good and will also mess up the rotation of the pelvis towards the end of the shot which will result in an arm punch .

sorry, but what you said is EXACTLY The Key for throwing an ARM PUNCH.

for a Powerful Right Hand (with the whole body-weight behind it) you should: Pivot with a right foot and with that automatically you transfer the weight from back to front (you can't Pivot with the back leg, stay up on the ball of the feet and still have the weight here), in the same time you make a TINY STEP-in to the left, which is the key to everything: Gives Great Balance, Maximum Power and your head will be in a position almost impossibly to counter.



at 5:28 in this video, you see that very Tiny step with the left foot and the PIVOT with the right

Wrong, that is how YOU would throw an arm punch, i was simply explaining parts of the punch however i didnt mention 1 major trigger which i assumed even the most novice of boxers would know about (sorry about that) adds an explosive trigger for the right hand and which will also put the bones/joints of your arm/upper body in a position upon impact that will ensure your bones bear the kickback of the impact rather than the muscles, minimising risk of losing power from the elbow, wrist or shoulder jonts. if you know anything about throwing a punch you will be able to tell me what this trigger is that i missed out.. if not?.. hmm.

Im sorry if you think this impossible but i assure you i can pivot on my back foot while keeping almost all my weight on there and this is the way a fast, powerful right hand is thrown, but yes your probably right what seperates the best of the best quality right hands is that little step you keep talking about that hardly any boxers can master because its so technicel (darn that little step its so hard to master...), not the fact that some fighters have the co ordination and balance to do things you cant, so simply percieve as being impossible for others aswell/wrong.

Oh yes and your so right no one can possibly counter you with that little step its amazing i cant believe i never thought of it myself... im pretty sure if you tried that on me or anyone else thats been boxing 4 month youd be in trouble, id load up a right uppercut on you that your grandkids would feel and you would turn square into it, or id simply slip to my left and come back with a left hand you would never see because of this great angle youve just made. trying to make an angle as wreckless as that would get you killed in the ring with a good fighter.

[WayneFlint]

Oh yeh and to pick a right hand out of a video like that means nothing, i havent wasted my time watching it but i can assure you hes not simply using that step as an angle and that some conciderable amount of setting up has probably gone into walking his opponent into that punch/angle, a good boxer is thinking a few moves deep, its just not as simple as your implying, i wish it was... lol

[cambay411]

So Wayne are you for the step or totally against the step? lol

[cambay411]

Also i agree nothing is impossibe to counter thats why if you use that angle you have to keep your hands up and make sure to maintain good balance. No matter what you throw something is going to open up.

[HerbM]

So Wayne are you for the step or totally against the step? lol

There is a major difference between "taking a step" and "transferring weight to your front foot" -- you can do either separately or both together.

I am pretty sure that several of us, me for sure, are cautioning against the weight transfer forward. (Some may also be against any step,with or without weight.)

Even in the Dempsey 'falling step' he is NOT suggesting that you throw your weight onto the front foot. I actually find that more of my weight ends up on the BACK FOOT when doing this:

My front foot steps, or comes off the ground a little, or merely bends at the knee to REMOVE weight from it as (or just before really) the FIST STRIKES -- some of that front foot weight goes to the FIST (i.e., your opponents head or body) and the rest MUST go to your back foot --- unless you jump it must go somewhere.

The idea is to get a good part of it into the fist and thus into the opponent -- for a moment you are partly supported by HAND (and opponent's head) and REAR FOOT.

I believe -- and practice this way, you do not want ALL of the original weight from the front foot on the HAND since then you are in danger of truly falling through if you miss the target or he slips.

Generally, if I start with 60-40 rear-to-front weight distribution, I am trying for (about) 80-20 read to hand distribution for about 1/2 second, then that front foot is firmly back on the floor taking the weight again.

So, if my weight is (about) 200 lbs and I put 20% (or even 10) of it into that punch along with the force already in that punch the opponent's head is going to feel the effects of 20-40 lbs* MORE than the punch alone. Not bad if we can do it.

Dempsey even spends a lot of effort and words explaining that when you FIRST start practicing the falling step and "Left JOLT" on the bag people will come up to you and tell you that is all wrong because they will see you FALLING FORWARD, or otherwise shifting your weight onto that front foot -- even if you don't do that at first many people will assume that is what you are doing and most good boxers know this (shifting weight forward) is wrong according to canonical boxing theory.

After you perfect the "falling step" (according to Dempsey and my limited experience with it) you can do it so that no one even sees the weight come OFF the front foot and so that you can take either a big step or no step depending on where you (next) want to be.

* For the physicists among us: Technically, just having 30 lbs on your hand is meaningless and without effect UNLESS it stays there for some (however brief period of) time.

You need the time for GRAVITY to work to ACCELERATE that hand into the opponent for him to suffer the effects of the transfer. But that time can be really short, just the time you are ALMOST in contact with the opponent until just as you withdraw.

This is likely about 1/2 second max but I am guessing and have not tried to measure it beyond noticing it while hitting the bag.

We could do the math (or someone could do the math anyway ) and figure out how much kinetic energy is produced by 30 lbs accelerated by the Earth for 1/2 second. Then we would likely want to do more math and convert that to IMPULSE to get an idea of the extra impact delivered.

But hey, if his head snaps back like a rag doll from a "jab" that's close enough for me.

--
HerbM

[jameso'hara]

Out of all the information offered within this topic I would like to pick out Fran's assertion that the right cross is not the ace in the pack most fighters think it to be.

Hooks are very often much more effective. This is very true.

[WayneFlint]

So Wayne are you for the step or totally against the step? lol

I would say it depends what situation you apply the step too and how the step is taken. but generally if your trying to take a step while simultaneousely throwing the right hand then you are going to end up leaving the back foot out of range sometimes by not completing the step with your bac foot before throwing the right, which will result in a weak out of range right hand while if your opponents footing is good then your going to be in range to recieve perhaps damaging attacks but not throw any real damaging ones in return (this isnt good). taking the back foot with you before you throw the right is going to put you in range to land a damaging right hand aswell as recieve one, which is obveousely the desired scenario.

Aswell this will allow greater mobility and economy of energy, as you wont have ended up dropping down into a wider stance which can be draining to be continuousely having to get back out of the hole your putting youself in, in a hurry.

[cambay411]

Very well said, it just seems to me the small step on this punch has to do more with angles than a punching technique and needs set up in order to work your way inside. Wayne, you were talking about placement of the back foot on the straight, if you were trying to throw that straight right to the body would you leave that back foot there?

[WayneFlint]

No if you do this step you will be doing the same thing you do with a straight right to the head but because your going low down with the shot the back foot being left behind will cause the exact same problems and exagerate them as you will find yourself leaving the back foot even further behind than you would with a straight right to the head. let your knees take you down with the shot rather than bending at the waist and reaching, try and make sure your right heel is under your ass as much as it can be, scrap used to say to me on these forums in a way what is more simple to understand is if your heel had an eye make sure it can see the target its aiming for and the line of sight isnt blocked by your ass. this will enable proper range and the ability to drive through with the shot if necessary.