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It's an undeniable fact that in the year 2002 Hopkins turned down a huge career high payday of $3million to face Joe Calzaghe. He initially accepted the challenge before shamefully demanding $6 million to face Joe, knowing full well that $6 million ended the negotiations.
The question is - why did Hopkins duck Calzaghe?
Discuss
A Hop-Cal thread 30 mins and no reply. Shocking.
He couldn't face getting beat by a white boy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
For me it's quite simple - He Knew He would lose - why else make such demands :confused:
He certainly would of stood a better chance than he did when he finally faced him at LHW. Im not saying he would of won, but maybe he would not of resorted to dirty filthy tactics which he did in the fight they did have ;)
Utterly great replies.
1. Bothered by the pressure of losing to a whitey.
2. Obviously scared of losing.
3. It's highly doubtful Hopkins would have lasted long enough against a 2002 Calzaghe to use dirty filthy cheating shameful tactics.
I think he was waiting for ODH and a huge pay day against an easier opponent.
the same reason most fighters at that level of their career duck opponents
he simply divided the pay day and the risk and decided it just wasnt worth it
I dont blame RJJ/hopkins/toney for ducking JC, far better paydays for an easier nights work back then
Did you mean? I dont blame JC for ducking ,RJJ/hopkins/toney far better paydays for an easier nights work back then...Quote:
Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer
Roy's the only one that fought all of them, two in his younger/prime days....
Could have been he knew there was an easier fight against a smaller ODLH for more money like Master said,
that would make alot of sense,
it would have been good to see them fight with Hopkins not John Ruizing his ass, I think Joe still takes him though...
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherDid you mean? I dont blame JC for ducking ,RJJ/hopkins/toney far better paydays for an easier nights work back then...Quote:
Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer
Roy's the only one that fought all of them, two in his younger/prime days....
In fairness they are all to blame, RJJ,Hopkins and Toney wouldn't go to the UK and Joe wouldn't go to the States, can't blame one more than the other, none of them were keen to take the risk. Roy may have fought Hop and Toney but he was having none of DM and vice versa... just a shame we missed out on a few great prime fights
In short the answer is Hopkins in a greedy money grabing cnut who does not like it when he does not get his way!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherDid you mean? I dont blame JC for ducking ,RJJ/hopkins/toney far better paydays for an easier nights work back then...Quote:
Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer
Roy's the only one that fought all of them, two in his younger/prime days....
In fairness they are all to blame, RJJ,Hopkins and Toney wouldn't go to the UK and Joe wouldn't go to the States, can't blame one more than the other, none of them were keen to take the risk. Roy may have fought Hop and Toney but he was having none of DM and vice versa... just a shame we missed out on a few great prime fights
No no, DM sat ringside and watched Roy stop virgil hill with the body shot. So he was willing to travel but after he saw RJJ up close in action he hauled ass and never returned...
P.S. no one even comes close to thinking that DM stood a chance against RJJ so what does it matter that he didnt fight him....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherDid you mean? I dont blame JC for ducking ,RJJ/hopkins/toney far better paydays for an easier nights work back then...Quote:
Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer
Roy's the only one that fought all of them, two in his younger/prime days....
In fairness they are all to blame, RJJ,Hopkins and Toney wouldn't go to the UK and Joe wouldn't go to the States, can't blame one more than the other, none of them were keen to take the risk. Roy may have fought Hop and Toney but he was having none of DM and vice versa... just a shame we missed out on a few great prime fights
No no, DM sat ringside and watched Roy stop virgil hill with the body shot. So he was willing to travel but after he saw RJJ up close in action he hauled ass and never returned...
P.S. no one even comes close to thinking that DM stood a chance against RJJ so what does it matter that he didnt fight him....
When DM was undefeated there was alot of people who thought he had the best chance to beat Roy... He didn't want to fight in the States and Roy wouldn't go to Germany, just because he travelled to watch doesn't mean he was willing to travel to fight.
Put it this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherDid you mean? I dont blame JC for ducking ,RJJ/hopkins/toney far better paydays for an easier nights work back then...Quote:
Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer
Roy's the only one that fought all of them, two in his younger/prime days....
In fairness they are all to blame, RJJ,Hopkins and Toney wouldn't go to the UK and Joe wouldn't go to the States, can't blame one more than the other, none of them were keen to take the risk. Roy may have fought Hop and Toney but he was having none of DM and vice versa... just a shame we missed out on a few great prime fights
No no, DM sat ringside and watched Roy stop virgil hill with the body shot. So he was willing to travel but after he saw RJJ up close in action he hauled ass and never returned...
P.S. no one even comes close to thinking that DM stood a chance against RJJ so what does it matter that he didnt fight him....
When DM was undefeated there was alot of people who thought he had the best chance to beat Roy... He didn't want to fight in the States and Roy wouldn't go to Germany, just because he travelled to watch doesn't mean he was willing to travel to fight.
DM struggled twice with Richard Hall, infact the 1st fight was a real battle. RJJ toyed with Richard Hall in one of the most one sided fights ever, DM also lost to Julio Cesar Gonzalez quite handily, yet again another RJJ victim who was embarrassed.
DM was a good fighter with a good jab and good power, and he was exciting. But his style was quite basic, and he wasn't very fast.
I just don't see his style being very effective at all vs a prime RJJ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBPut it this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by PhilQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherDid you mean? I dont blame JC for ducking ,RJJ/hopkins/toney far better paydays for an easier nights work back then...Quote:
Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer
Roy's the only one that fought all of them, two in his younger/prime days....
In fairness they are all to blame, RJJ,Hopkins and Toney wouldn't go to the UK and Joe wouldn't go to the States, can't blame one more than the other, none of them were keen to take the risk. Roy may have fought Hop and Toney but he was having none of DM and vice versa... just a shame we missed out on a few great prime fights
No no, DM sat ringside and watched Roy stop virgil hill with the body shot. So he was willing to travel but after he saw RJJ up close in action he hauled ass and never returned...
P.S. no one even comes close to thinking that DM stood a chance against RJJ so what does it matter that he didnt fight him....
When DM was undefeated there was alot of people who thought he had the best chance to beat Roy... He didn't want to fight in the States and Roy wouldn't go to Germany, just because he travelled to watch doesn't mean he was willing to travel to fight.
DM struggled twice with Richard Hall, infact the 1st fight was a real battle. RJJ toyed with Richard Hall in one of the most one sided fights ever, DM also lost to Julio Cesar Gonzalez quite handily, yet again another RJJ victim who was embarrassed.
DM was a good fighter with a good jab and good power, and he was exciting. But his style was quite basic, and he wasn't very fast.
I just don't see his style being very effective at all vs a prime RJJ.
Im not saying DM would have beaten Roy, infact I think Roy would have won easily enough, but at the time it was alot bigger fight than some of the fights Roy took. All my point is Roy, Joe, Toney, Hop, DM, Eubank ect.. all could have challenged themselves more by going overseas for fights but took the easier options...
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8991/tripgj9.swfQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
It's a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by onohttp://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8991/tripgj9.swfQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Hopkins showed how badly he feared the white man when proclaiming "i'll never let a white boy beat me"
Luckily for him the yeehaws served up "one two plod plod Kelly" to save face. Fact.
Where would the fight take place? I can't see Hopkins being scared of Calzaghe or Jones, but they had difficulties making negotiations despite the fact I doubt any of them were afraid of one another. Was Calzaghe willing to come to the states because if I recall I don't believe he was willing to prior to the Lacy and Kessler fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I don't see how the american is always criticized, and IMO a older Hopkins who had aged considerably physically over those years beat the younger Calzaghe in many people's point of view, mine included. Add the added stamina of a few years and the fact he was so much better technically and instinctively, and you have Hopkins working Calzaghe over as much as anyone would be able to against such a great fighter.
The deal was for the fight to be in the states (Hop leave the US - lol).Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethWhere would the fight take place? I can't see Hopkins being scared of Calzaghe or Jones, but they had difficulties making negotiations despite the fact I doubt any of them were afraid of one another. Was Calzaghe willing to come to the states because if I recall I don't believe he was willing to prior to the Lacy and Kessler fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I don't see how the american is always criticized, and IMO a older Hopkins who had aged considerably physically over those years beat the younger Calzaghe in many people's point of view, mine included. Add the added stamina of a few years and the fact he was so much better technically and instinctively, and you have Hopkins working Calzaghe over as much as anyone would be able to against such a great fighter.
Hopkins turned down a career high payday of $3million to accept $250,000 paydays against Carl Daniels, Allen, Hakkar and the like.
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Joe wasn't as established back in 2002 so when B-Hop would have lost to him it wouldn't have done his cred any good. But still it just shows how much of a joke he is B-Hop wouldn't fight a champion unless he got paid a stupid amount which he knew would never happen thus making the fight fall through.
In the end if worked out a good move by Hopkins with what happened since but come on imagine Calzaghe was offered $3million to fight Hopkins in the States he would of swam there with Enzo and Frank Warren on his back.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethWhere would the fight take place? I can't see Hopkins being scared of Calzaghe or Jones, but they had difficulties making negotiations despite the fact I doubt any of them were afraid of one another. Was Calzaghe willing to come to the states because if I recall I don't believe he was willing to prior to the Lacy and Kessler fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I don't see how the american is always criticized, and IMO a older Hopkins who had aged considerably physically over those years beat the younger Calzaghe in many people's point of view, mine included. Add the added stamina of a few years and the fact he was so much better technically and instinctively, and you have Hopkins working Calzaghe over as much as anyone would be able to against such a great fighter.
He was using Joe as a negotiation tool for getting a big money fight with ODH, he wound down his contract with Don King with meaningless fights. Hopkins was right not to fight Joe business wise.
How is this possible when Calzaghe himself stated that he didn't want to travel to the states until post-Kessler?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe deal was for the fight to be in the states (Hop leave the US - lol).Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethWhere would the fight take place? I can't see Hopkins being scared of Calzaghe or Jones, but they had difficulties making negotiations despite the fact I doubt any of them were afraid of one another. Was Calzaghe willing to come to the states because if I recall I don't believe he was willing to prior to the Lacy and Kessler fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I don't see how the american is always criticized, and IMO a older Hopkins who had aged considerably physically over those years beat the younger Calzaghe in many people's point of view, mine included. Add the added stamina of a few years and the fact he was so much better technically and instinctively, and you have Hopkins working Calzaghe over as much as anyone would be able to against such a great fighter.
Hopkins turned down a career high payday of $3million to accept $250,000 paydays against Carl Daniels, Allen, Hakkar and the like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethHow is this possible when Calzaghe himself stated that he didn't want to travel to the states until post-Kessler?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe deal was for the fight to be in the states (Hop leave the US - lol).Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethWhere would the fight take place? I can't see Hopkins being scared of Calzaghe or Jones, but they had difficulties making negotiations despite the fact I doubt any of them were afraid of one another. Was Calzaghe willing to come to the states because if I recall I don't believe he was willing to prior to the Lacy and Kessler fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I don't see how the american is always criticized, and IMO a older Hopkins who had aged considerably physically over those years beat the younger Calzaghe in many people's point of view, mine included. Add the added stamina of a few years and the fact he was so much better technically and instinctively, and you have Hopkins working Calzaghe over as much as anyone would be able to against such a great fighter.
Hopkins turned down a career high payday of $3million to accept $250,000 paydays against Carl Daniels, Allen, Hakkar and the like.
2002 - Nard is trying to become undisputed MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION
2002 - Joe is trying to become longest reigning WBO SUPER MIDDLE WEIGHT CHAMPION
He knew Joe was coked up. Fact.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Hopkins beat Calzaghe.
Is that a fact?Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
And Teath, yes Hopkins was a lot fitter back in the day but Calzaghe also had a lot more power.
I just can't see that no matter how many times I watch itQuote:
Originally Posted by amat
Neither can I, it is a myth of boxing like JMM ducking Naz.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HI just can't see that no matter how many times I watch itQuote:
Originally Posted by amat
I've watched it three times (I know, sadistic). When I saw it live, I was inclined to give Calzaghe a very close decision, so I can understand why the judges scored it the way they did. However, both times I rewatched the fight I had Hopkins winning an incredibly narrow decision. Calzaghe landed almost no meaningful punches throughout the entire fight. When Hopkins did nothing, Calzaghe's ineffective aggression was justification enough to win him the rounds. However, when Hopkins actually fought back he landed the cleaner, harder shots and IMO (obviously) was able to win at least 6 rounds. That, coupled with the extra point for the KD, won him the fight in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HI just can't see that no matter how many times I watch itQuote:
Originally Posted by amat
You have strange eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI've watched it three times (I know, sadistic). When I saw it live, I was inclined to give Calzaghe a very close decision, so I can understand why the judges scored it the way they did. However, both times I rewatched the fight I had Hopkins winning an incredibly narrow decision. Calzaghe landed almost no meaningful punches throughout the entire fight. When Hopkins did nothing, Calzaghe's ineffective aggression was justification enough to win him the rounds. However, when Hopkins actually fought back he landed the cleaner, harder shots and IMO (obviously) was able to win at least 6 rounds. That, coupled with the extra point for the KD, won him the fight in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HI just can't see that no matter how many times I watch itQuote:
Originally Posted by amat
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI've watched it three times (I know, sadistic). When I saw it live, I was inclined to give Calzaghe a very close decision, so I can understand why the judges scored it the way they did. However, both times I rewatched the fight I had Hopkins winning an incredibly narrow decision. Calzaghe landed almost no meaningful punches throughout the entire fight. When Hopkins did nothing, Calzaghe's ineffective aggression was justification enough to win him the rounds. However, when Hopkins actually fought back he landed the cleaner, harder shots and IMO (obviously) was able to win at least 6 rounds. That, coupled with the extra point for the KD, won him the fight in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HI just can't see that no matter how many times I watch itQuote:
Originally Posted by amat
Lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Ohhhhh....... NOW I get it. I feel like the last person in the group to understand the joke. I didn't realize this was part of an on-going series, titled:
"Non-English fighter X ducked English fighter Y. Fact. Discuss."
I'm sorry... I hadn't made the connection until now. And I'd like to be helpful here. Hey, I know... how 'bout a thread about how Cotto ducked Hatton at 140? And going out on that same limb, how about "Wladimir ducked Haye... FACT."
Just trying to help.
;)
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TitoFan again.
LOL, CFH. As with birthday gifts, it's the thought that counts. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Calzaghe is non-English. There's no evidence that Cotto ducked Hatton. Haye looks to be ducking Wlad, so that will be a hard one even for me to defend.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
My threads are fun but also factual. Fact.
How about a Mayweather and Pacquiao are ducking Khan thread. I think you are good enough to spin that.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterCalzaghe is non-English. There's no evidence that Cotto ducked Hatton. Haye looks to be ducking Wlad, so that will be a hard one even for me to defend.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
My threads are fun but also factual. Fact.
Here I'll help you get started. http://www.boxingnews24.com/2010/05/...-in-12-months/
Hatton TRIED to duck Pacquiao........ but he didn't quite make it.
:cool:
I went on to box rec and was suprised to see him ranked 4th p4p now.
You've got to give the guy credit, still going, still winning. Still getting mostly big names on his record.
But no, he definatley didn't beat Calzaghe.