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Views on the 140 division now?
Is Kotelnik better than most expected? Is Alexander not quite as good?
How's Khan looking at 140 in your opinion? Interesting, i was reading Richard Schaefer talking about Khan and how he was fasting when he fought Prescott, for Ramadan. I thought he was but i'd never seen it confirmed. I'm glad in a way, because i remember watching his pre-fight interview in his dressing room, and i remember looking at my old man and saying 'He looks fucked'. In your opinion, how much of an effect did this have on his already poor punch resistance?
Would Marquez be a viable opponent for anyone at 140? Would everyone beat him? How good is Tim Bradley?
Where do Maidana and Ortiz come into it for you? Is Paulie finished. It's exciting, because there are a lot of similarly talented guys.
Sorry this thread has been brought on by me watching the Kotelnik fight. He was unlucky, i'll leave it at that :cool:
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For me, Maidana is the top guy at 140. I have this conspiracy theory that all the top promoters know it and they are doing their best to keep him away. Imagine if he had a top promoter and manager like Khan or the others, his career would have been guided far better than it has. His record is better than the other guys IMO, in both who he has fought and the results. He beat Ortiz when he was percieved as the next golden boy, went over to Kotelnik when many would have steered clear and beat Cayo who was unbeaten and regarded as a hot prospect. If he hadn't been screwed over I think he would be 140 king by now.
After him comes Khan, but I don't think we'll see him in any defining fights any time soon. His career is being very carefully moulded, so they are keeping him away from another loss very carefully. I can see him fighting JMM next, which might show us a little, but I fear it will be on Khans terms and give him a nice advantage.
Alexander looks behind Khan in development, so I think he should steer clear of the pack for now.
Bradley is very good, but I'm still undecided on him and how ready he is.
Kotelnik is going to turn into a very good journeyman, good fighter who will give you a workout for 12, but not spring too many suprises.
Ortiz has lost his fire and the seeds of doubt will have flourished even more since they sprung up in the Maidana fight. Another battle and he'll quit again. He's the one I'd want if I was one of the guys mentioned.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Is Kotelnik better than most expected? Is Alexander not quite as good?
How's Khan looking at 140 in your opinion? Interesting, i was reading Richard Schaefer talking about Khan and how he was fasting when he fought Prescott, for Ramadan. I thought he was but i'd never seen it confirmed. I'm glad in a way, because i remember watching his pre-fight interview in his dressing room, and i remember looking at my old man and saying 'He looks fucked'. In your opinion, how much of an effect did this have on his already poor punch resistance?
Would Marquez be a viable opponent for anyone at 140? Would everyone beat him? How good is Tim Bradley?
There is good possibility, but lets be honest Ono he was getting put down prior to that by the likes of Willie Limond, his chin is still a problem for me going way back the am's where he was doing a breakdance v Craig Watson.
Where do Maidana and Ortiz come into it for you? Is Paulie finished. It's exciting, because there are a lot of similarly talented guys.
Sorry this thread has been brought on by me watching the Kotelnik fight. He was unlucky, i'll leave it at that :cool:
I think the last month or so has shown the 140 division to be a bit overrated imo, Alexander is nothing special and very one dimensional for me I have watched him twice and has no plan b or c, he sticks to what he does best and on Saturday that wasn't good enough and like I have said against a bigger puncher he would of been stopped.
Personally I would like to see Alexander v Ortiz that would be a good fight and I would favour Oritz. Bradley is number 1 and Khan number 2 right now but Khan has the skills and one of the best jabs in boxing right now and can beat anyone at 140 by being disciplined and his chin will not have to come into question for me.
But we will see in the future...
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Oh and for Paulie, see what I said about Kotelnik. Same applies.
I think most would beat JMM, but for eveyone of them, he is that good of a fighter you could never guarantee it. But I think his wear and tear will let him down any fight now.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
For me, Maidana is the top guy at 140. I have this conspiracy theory that all the top promoters know it and they are doing their best to keep him away. Imagine if he had a top promoter and manager like Khan or the others, his career would have been guided far better than it has. His record is better than the other guys IMO, in both who he has fought and the results. He beat Ortiz when he was percieved as the next golden boy, went over to Kotelnik when many would have steered clear and beat Cayo who was unbeaten and regarded as a hot prospect. If he hadn't been screwed over I think he would be 140 king by now.
After him comes Khan, but I don't think we'll see him in any defining fights any time soon. His career is being very carefully moulded, so they are keeping him away from another loss very carefully. I can see him fighting JMM next, which might show us a little, but I fear it will be on Khans terms and give him a nice advantage.
Alexander looks behind Khan in development, so I think he should steer clear of the pack for now.
Bradley is very good, but I'm still undecided on him and how ready he is.
Kotelnik is going to turn into a very good journeyman, good fighter who will give you a workout for 12, but not spring too many suprises.
Ortiz has lost his fire and the seeds of doubt will have flourished even more since they sprung up in the Maidana fight. Another battle and he'll quit again. He's the one I'd want if I was one of the guys mentioned.
I think Maidana is average, well average is a bit harsh not average but for me no where near number 1, v Ortiz he was getting beat well until Ortiz for me showed he had no bottle, the Kotelnik fight was very close no way was that a robbery imo.
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I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.
I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.
It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.
I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.
It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.
he's really not that fast, but I agree Khan still has enough defensive liabilities that Maidana could still catch him if Khan didn't have a really good night. I think this leaves TImothy Bradley as the best guy in the division. I think he outboxes Maidana all night.
Bradley may have troubles with Khan because like Pacquiao he has physical abilities and a coach who implements those abilities to near perfection against each guy he faces, but I think Bradley is by far the most well rounded fighter in the pack, its unfortunate that he is the least gifted.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Yea, I'm surprised people are sold on Khan. I think Bradley is the top guy and then everyone else has questions to answer after him. Kotelnik is DEFINITELY better then what I gave him credit for though, I am going to have to rewatch his fight with Khan. Khan though wasn't that impressive versus Paulie, he overwhelmed him with firepower but his defense is still porous imo. They are putting him in the same situation over and over again and then I guess just going to hope he does well against someone who can actually exploit his defensive woes.
Alexander, well he needs work but he already had the Bradley U Next shirt printed I guess. I still think he's on equal footing with Khan if not over Khan. ``
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
Yea, I'm surprised people are sold on Khan. I think Bradley is the top guy and then everyone else has questions to answer after him. Kotelnik is DEFINITELY better then what I gave him credit for though, I am going to have to rewatch his fight with Khan. Khan though wasn't that impressive versus Paulie, he overwhelmed him with firepower but his defense is still porous imo. They are putting him in the same situation over and over again and then I guess just going to hope he does well against someone who can actually exploit his defensive woes.
Alexander, well he needs work but he already had the Bradley U Next shirt printed I guess. I still think he's on equal footing with Khan if not over Khan. ``
I think Khan did very well against Malignaggi, and he was really the first guy to hit Paulie at will, even Hatton didn't dominate him in the same way and I think Hatton was an incredible 140 pounder even when he came back down.
I just watched the Khan-Kotelnik fight today, and obviously there are flaws with Khan, and he wasn't really able to get through Kotelnik's guard, but it reminded me a lot of Pacquiao-Clottey. He really used angles, movement, and combinations quite effectively to subdue maybe a more accurate, but less active opponent. I also think he did a nice job of going to the body and keeping Kotelnik off balance by constantly throwing something at him. The big advantage Khan and Pacquiao have are speed and endurance. Not many guys are going to be able to deal with their speed for a whole fight, in order to do so would require an enormous amount of concentration which in turn takes a lot of energy. I didn't see that from Alexander, I think the height desparity with the fact that Khan is more technical than him, and he has a coach who will implement the right strategy makes me believe he will outbox Alexander easier than many people might suspect. Bradley however, is constantly changing heights, keeping his feet moving, using angles and keeping busy himself. He is also relatively slick which is sometimes the only way to circumvent blinding speed. The thing that I worry about with Bradley is a fast counterpuncher like Holt or Judah. Bradley can use the fact that Khan is a front runner to nullify that speed by setting traps, but against guys like Judah and when he faced Holt, Bradley had to close the gap, which he sometimes does quite wildly, and that sets him up for being countered by a big shot. Luckily both Judah and Holt don't have mental fortitude to fight at their sharpest for 12 rounds or I would consider them favorites against Bradley. But there is a certain guy 7 pounds up that I think would beat Bradley everytime because he does everything better than Tim, and he has every physical advantage.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
140 is one of the most exciting divisions in the sport.
I think Bradley is clearly the best, and if I had to rank the top fighters in the division it would probably look something like this:
1. Bradley
2. Alexander/Khan
4. Maidana
5. Kotelnik (or JMM if he chooses to fight at 140)
However, any of the top 4 could turn out to be the best fighter in the long-run. I'm less sold on Maidana than most people are though.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
A few facts on Amir Khan.
-He once sparred a round with Pacquiao without throwing a punch and Pacquiao was still hurt badly.
-He taught a prime iron Mike Tyson how to give off an aura of invincibility when he was still in his mother's womb.
-Money Mayweather avoids being in the same US state as Amir because he knows he can get his first loss even without being in the same boxing ring.
-Muhammad Ali has been considering dropping "the greatest" moniker ever since Amir was born in '86 feeling that only Amir was worthy of that title.
-Amir has his boxing moments even when he's not boxing.
-Roach's damaged brain is healing at 1% everyday just by hearing Amir's words being spoken.
-Oscar De La Hoya rallied in the 12th to give a great boxing round against Quartey because Amir willed it from his home in the UK when Amir was 12.
-George Foreman beat Michael Moorer because Amir was his inspiration not God.
-Sugar Ray Robinson on his deathbed lamented that he never got the chance to meet Amir to learn a few tricks from Amir on boxing.
- B-Hop said he lasted this long in the fight game just by picking up 3 of Amir's moves in the ring.
-The real reason the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight was delayed was because May and Pac didn't want to overshadow any of Amir's fights that were close to the proposed dated and both didn't have permission by Amir to fight.
-Amir's legend precedes him, the way lightning precedes thunder.
Amir is the greatest boxer in the world.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
It's amazing how perceptions of Khan have changed. A year ago there were only a handful of people who supported him on this forum.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
Yea, I'm surprised people are sold on Khan. I think Bradley is the top guy and then everyone else has questions to answer after him. Kotelnik is DEFINITELY better then what I gave him credit for though, I am going to have to rewatch his fight with Khan. Khan though wasn't that impressive versus Paulie, he overwhelmed him with firepower but his defense is still porous imo. They are putting him in the same situation over and over again and then I guess just going to hope he does well against someone who can actually exploit his defensive woes.
Alexander, well he needs work but he already had the Bradley U Next shirt printed I guess. I still think he's on equal footing with Khan if not over Khan. ``
I disagree mate. I think he simply wasn't bothered about being hit by Paulie. I think he dominated him more than Hatton and probably even Cotto did. Cotto beat him up, but Paulie was still in the fight for the most part. I agree with Bradley being the top guy. He's improved an awful lot over the last 2 years.
I was impressed by Alexander against Witter, because even though i've never really rated Witter, he does have a difficult style to look good against. I was less impressed with him against Urango, although the uppercut was spectacular. I wasn't impressed with him at all on Saturday. Could be a case of over-looking Kotelnik, but the fact that Urango was running him close prior to being ko'd should tell us that he isn't quite at that level yet. I think Khan is too busy for him. He might not hurt Alexander, but like Taeth said, they aren't many who can beat that style, mainly because of the angles and the speed and the output. Same with Pacquiao, and to an extent even Calzaghe.
With that in mind, i still think Bradley beats Khan.
How do people think Marquez would go on against Alexander and Bradley? I think he'd beat Alexander fairly handily.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
How do people think Marquez would go on against Alexander and Bradley? I think he'd beat Alexander fairly handily.
And me. I think experience vs inexperience would show
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.
I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.
It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.
he's really not that fast, but I agree Khan still has enough defensive liabilities that Maidana could still catch him if Khan didn't have a really good night. I think this leaves TImothy Bradley as the best guy in the division. I think he outboxes Maidana all night.
Bradley may have troubles with Khan because like Pacquiao he has physical abilities and a coach who implements those abilities to near perfection against each guy he faces, but I think Bradley is by far the most well rounded fighter in the pack, its unfortunate that he is the least gifted.
When I say speed, I don't mean in the Khan/ Malinagi 100 punches a second mould, more of the speed he throws his power shots. He has such snap on them and they come from different angles.
I'm still not convinced on Khans power, I think it's more the volume of punches that overwhelms fighters.I don't think Kotlenik got hurt once by Khan, haven't seen the fight for a while, but I remember lots of punches to the gloves by Khan.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.
I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.
It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.
he's really not that fast, but I agree Khan still has enough defensive liabilities that Maidana could still catch him if Khan didn't have a really good night. I think this leaves TImothy Bradley as the best guy in the division. I think he outboxes Maidana all night.
Bradley may have troubles with Khan because like Pacquiao he has physical abilities and a coach who implements those abilities to near perfection against each guy he faces, but I think Bradley is by far the most well rounded fighter in the pack, its unfortunate that he is the least gifted.
When I say speed, I don't mean in the Khan/ Malinagi 100 punches a second mould, more of the speed he throws his power shots. He has such snap on them and they come from different angles.
I'm still not convinced on Khans power, I think it's more the volume of punches that overwhelms fighters.I don't think Kotlenik got hurt once by Khan, haven't seen the fight for a while, but I remember lots of punches to the gloves by Khan.
Yeah Kotelnik has a hard style to break through. He covers up very well and he doesn't leave himself open much. Khan's power has looked great at times when an opponent has walked onto a shot or when he's landed 3 or 4 clean at a time. He'll struggle to do that against the top guys, unless they are gung-ho. I think he could look brilliant against Maidana personally, but can see the argument for him getting knocked out.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
At this point no way does Amir Khan beat Timothy Bradley, its just amazing how much Timothy Bradley has improved. At first i doubted him but he really has gone from strength to strength.
We've pretty much seen all different sides to him, we know he can turn a fight around with one punch aka Junior Witter. We know he can brawl and comeback from adversity aka Kendall Holt. We know he can fight on the backfoot and outbox a bigger dangerous opponent aka Luis Carlos Abregu.
He's too well rounded and he keeps getting better and better, i think he beats Amir Khan over 12 quite comfortably 8 rounds to 4.
As for Devon Alexander IMO he reminded me of Jermain Taylor in his last fight, wasting alot of energy and not focusing enough on accuracy. I think he can get better but there's no doubting he got a gift, and whilst Andriy Kotelnik may be quite good technically.
He's not that good in other departments, infact he's quite mediocre in alot of departments, any elite fighter would comfortably outpoint Andriy Kotelnik. I mean this is the same guy who couldn't beat Souleymane M'baye in two outings, and he was one of the worst belt holders in recent times.
IMO its basically Timothy Bradley then everyone else.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
At this point no way does Amir Khan beat Timothy Bradley, its just amazing how much Timothy Bradley has improved. At first i doubted him but he really has gone from strength to strength.
We've pretty much seen all different sides to him, we know he can turn a fight around with one punch aka Junior Witter. We know he can brawl and comeback from adversity aka Kendall Holt. We know he can fight on the backfoot and outbox a bigger dangerous opponent aka Luis Carlos Abregu.
He's too well rounded and he keeps getting better and better, i think he beats Amir Khan over 12 quite comfortably 8 rounds to 4.
As for Devon Alexander IMO he reminded me of Jermain Taylor in his last fight, wasting alot of energy and not focusing enough on accuracy. I think he can get better but there's no doubting he got a gift, and whilst Andriy Kotelnik may be quite good technically.
He's not that good in other departments, infact he's quite mediocre in alot of departments, any elite fighter would comfortably outpoint Andriy Kotelnik. I mean this is the same guy who couldn't beat Souleymane M'baye in two outings, and he was one of the worst belt holders in recent times.
IMO its basically Timothy Bradley then everyone else.
Give over, he's not even one of the worst belt holders in the last few years at 140. You've got Maussa, Rees, M'Baye, Urango and i'd even say Vivian Harris. Kotelnik is a solid fighter. Not spectacular nor eye catching, but he's decent.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
At this point no way does Amir Khan beat Timothy Bradley, its just amazing how much Timothy Bradley has improved. At first i doubted him but he really has gone from strength to strength.
We've pretty much seen all different sides to him, we know he can turn a fight around with one punch aka Junior Witter. We know he can brawl and comeback from adversity aka Kendall Holt. We know he can fight on the backfoot and outbox a bigger dangerous opponent aka Luis Carlos Abregu.
He's too well rounded and he keeps getting better and better, i think he beats Amir Khan over 12 quite comfortably 8 rounds to 4.
As for Devon Alexander IMO he reminded me of Jermain Taylor in his last fight, wasting alot of energy and not focusing enough on accuracy. I think he can get better but there's no doubting he got a gift, and whilst Andriy Kotelnik may be quite good technically.
He's not that good in other departments, infact he's quite mediocre in alot of departments, any elite fighter would comfortably outpoint Andriy Kotelnik. I mean this is the same guy who couldn't beat Souleymane M'baye in two outings, and he was one of the worst belt holders in recent times.
IMO its basically Timothy Bradley then everyone else.
Give over, he's not even one of the worst belt holders in the last few years at 140. You've got Maussa, Rees, M'Baye, Urango and i'd even say Vivian Harris. Kotelnik is a solid fighter. Not spectacular nor eye catching, but he's decent.
Mate you got the wrong end of the stick, i said Souleymane M'baye was one of the worst title holders in recent times not Andriy Kotelnik.
Although thats not saying alot about Andriy Kotelnik, who couldn't beat him in 2 fights. As i've stated to me Andriy Kotelnik isn't bad technically and he's got a decent defense, but other than that he's quite mediocre.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
As much as it pains me to say it I think a well disciplined Khan performance beats any of them - he is much more naturally gifted, bigger and has the speed to do it. Of course if someone like Maidana caught him it would be game over but as I said if he stays disciplined.....
The Ring online did a series of 'mock' fight reports this past week on how a tournament along the lines of the super six would g in the 140 division - had Khan beating Bradley by UD in final (and climbing off the canvas to do it :rolleyes:)
mock semi finals here
At this point no way does Amir Khan beat Timothy Bradley, its just amazing how much Timothy Bradley has improved. At first i doubted him but he really has gone from strength to strength.
We've pretty much seen all different sides to him, we know he can turn a fight around with one punch aka Junior Witter. We know he can brawl and comeback from adversity aka Kendall Holt. We know he can fight on the backfoot and outbox a bigger dangerous opponent aka Luis Carlos Abregu.
He's too well rounded and he keeps getting better and better, i think he beats Amir Khan over 12 quite comfortably 8 rounds to 4.
As for Devon Alexander IMO he reminded me of Jermain Taylor in his last fight, wasting alot of energy and not focusing enough on accuracy. I think he can get better but there's no doubting he got a gift, and whilst Andriy Kotelnik may be quite good technically.
He's not that good in other departments, infact he's quite mediocre in alot of departments, any elite fighter would comfortably outpoint Andriy Kotelnik. I mean this is the same guy who couldn't beat Souleymane M'baye in two outings, and he was one of the worst belt holders in recent times.
IMO its basically Timothy Bradley then everyone else.
Give over, he's not even one of the worst belt holders in the last few years at 140. You've got Maussa, Rees, M'Baye, Urango and i'd even say Vivian Harris. Kotelnik is a solid fighter. Not spectacular nor eye catching, but he's decent.
Mate you got the wrong end of the stick, i said Souleymane M'baye was one of the worst title holders in recent times not Andriy Kotelnik.
Although thats not saying alot about Andriy Kotelnik, who couldn't beat him in 2 fights. As i've stated to me Andriy Kotelnik isn't bad technically and he's got a decent defense, but other than that he's quite mediocre.
Ahhhh. It all becomes clear now
;D
Sorry.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
I want to start out by saying so far Bradley and Maidana are the top of this division. Mr. Khan although skilled with a high work volume of speed needs the opponent in front of him. Bradley would rough him up or KO him. Maidana, well surprise he hits hard and has incredible endurance and quit is not in his vocabulary. Alexander is not prepared or maybe he's just lucky. Don't knock on Bradley's door or Maidana's just yet. Ortiz is a large question mark especially in the ticker category so we have to wait and see. Easy opponents will only prolong the inevitable, Could it be he just took things too far? As for Khan once again, you are your own worst enemy fighting on your holiday fasting for forty days. Just for the sake of your fans, remeber there's 365days on the calender you are entitled to use.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I want to start out by saying so far Bradley and Maidana are the top of this division. Mr. Khan although skilled with a high work volume of speed needs the opponent in front of him. Bradley would rough him up or KO him. Maidana, well surprise he hits hard and has incredible endurance and quit is not in his vocabulary. Alexander is not prepared or maybe he's just lucky. Don't knock on Bradley's door or Maidana's just yet. Ortiz is a large question mark especially in the ticker category so we have to wait and see. Easy opponents will only prolong the inevitable, Could it be he just took things too far? As for Khan once again, you are your own worst enemy fighting on your holiday fasting for forty days. Just for the sake of your fans, remeber there's 365days on the calender you are entitled to use.
I think he's learned his lesson. He's not even going to start training until after Ramadan has finished this time.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I want to start out by saying so far Bradley and Maidana are the top of this division. Mr. Khan although skilled with a high work volume of speed needs the opponent in front of him. Bradley would rough him up or KO him. Maidana, well surprise he hits hard and has incredible endurance and quit is not in his vocabulary. Alexander is not prepared or maybe he's just lucky. Don't knock on Bradley's door or Maidana's just yet. Ortiz is a large question mark especially in the ticker category so we have to wait and see. Easy opponents will only prolong the inevitable, Could it be he just took things too far? As for Khan once again, you are your own worst enemy fighting on your holiday fasting for forty days. Just for the sake of your fans, remeber there's 365days on the calender you are entitled to use.
I think he's learned his lesson. He's not even going to start training until after Ramadan has finished this time.
He's been eyeing up Jordan, and claimed meeting Paris Hilton was like meeting Muhammad Ali. Same old Amir Khan it seems to me ;D
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
here's the way i see the jr. welterweights. i think this division is still wide open as far as any one fighter distancing themselves from the rest.
timothy bradley - great little fighter with great speed and technique. on the short side and has been dropped (holt) so we still don't know how good his chin is because of his chin, he rarely gets tagged solidly. my favorite fighter at jr. welter because he comes to fight no matter how big or powerful his opponents are.
amir khan - even i don't like the guy, he still has impressed me with his overall skills and speed. i think roach has done wonders preparing him for his last two or three fights but i think it's time for him to ratchet it up a little bit and start fighting serious contenders. he's been feeding on fighters on the downside like barrera, malignaggi and a very ordinary salita. chin is still suspect. a very well managed fighter who has been protected thus far!
devon alexander - i too, was caught up in the alexander the great hype until he came back down to earth last saturday night. very disappointing showing on his part. but you've got to give kotelnik massive credit for taking the fight to him. still, devon is only 23 years old and will improve. has good power and speed but he's what i call more of a herky jerky type of puncher. most of his jabs hit nothing but air with no real strategic advantage. but i like the kid and his life story!
marcos rene maidana - tough as nails who can really punch. but he also has slow reflexes and can definitely be outboxed. if you outbox him like kotelnik did, he doesn't really know how to adjust. he only knows one way and that is brawling. this was the mistake victor ortiz did. he could of outboxed him all night long but got cocky and began trading with this tough argentine. would be at the mercy of the top three aforementioned fighters but will always have a puncher's chance.
joan guzman - very, very dangerous fighter. in fact, i would give him a great chance of beating any of the top welters. his second fight with ali funeka was masterful. he may be past 30 years old but he still has his skills and speed. his only problem is his lack of activity and his true lack of desire to be the best i.e. coming in overweight twice before.
victor ortiz - has all the skills he needs to succeed but i don't think has gotten (subconsciously) over his KO loss to maidana. seems to me he still has just a little doubt running through his head for him to realize his mass potential. still young and improving. maybe he should try to exercise his demons and rematch maidana after two or three more fights. if he can beat maidana in a rematch, he could go a long way.
zab judah - i still think this guy can be a great fighter again! coming down in weight probably did wonders for him. at welter, he seemed to get discouraged when his bigger opponents kept coming at him in the later rounds. but physically, he's got it all and could be a major player again.
andriy kotelnik - too bad he doesn't have much of a punch otherwise he would have beaten alexander. love his counterpunching skills and is as crafty a veteran as i've seen. love the way he fell behind but didn't panic. was in control mentally throughout the whole fight. i believe he can still be a force in the division but again, his only drawback is his lack of KO power which puts him in somewhat of a disadvantage.
SLEEPERS - watch out for venezuela's patrick lopez. this guy is a tough and extremely strong fighter. followed his career for a couple of years now and he could surprise and win a title this year or next. i think he would give any of the above mentioned fighters a tough fight right now.
another sleeper could be josesito lopez. i've been a big fan of his for about three years. btw, he's already beaten patrick lopez by SD so i know this guy can fight. hasn't been very active the last couple of years but has a big fight this friday night on espn2 vs. marvin cordova 21-1-1, who is also a pretty good prospect. if lopez wins decisively, he should be ready to fight the bigger names at jr. welter.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I want to start out by saying so far Bradley and Maidana are the top of this division. Mr. Khan although skilled with a high work volume of speed needs the opponent in front of him. Bradley would rough him up or KO him. Maidana, well surprise he hits hard and has incredible endurance and quit is not in his vocabulary. Alexander is not prepared or maybe he's just lucky. Don't knock on Bradley's door or Maidana's just yet. Ortiz is a large question mark especially in the ticker category so we have to wait and see. Easy opponents will only prolong the inevitable, Could it be he just took things too far? As for Khan once again, you are your own worst enemy fighting on your holiday fasting for forty days. Just for the sake of your fans, remeber there's 365days on the calender you are entitled to use.
I think he's learned his lesson. He's not even going to start training until after Ramadan has finished this time.
He's been eyeing up Jordan, and claimed meeting Paris Hilton was like meeting Muhammad Ali. Same old Amir Khan it seems to me ;D
Yeah saw that in the paper. He's obviously a classy guy. ;D
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
milmascaras1
here's the way i see the jr. welterweights. i think this division is still wide open as far as any one fighter distancing themselves from the rest.
timothy bradley - great little fighter with great speed and technique. on the short side and has been dropped (holt) so we still don't know how good his chin is because of his chin, he rarely gets tagged solidly. my favorite fighter at jr. welter because he comes to fight no matter how big or powerful his opponents are.
amir khan - even i don't like the guy, he still has impressed me with his overall skills and speed. i think roach has done wonders preparing him for his last two or three fights but i think it's time for him to ratchet it up a little bit and start fighting serious contenders. he's been feeding on fighters on the downside like barrera, malignaggi and a very ordinary salita. chin is still suspect. a very well managed fighter who has been protected thus far!
devon alexander - i too, was caught up in the alexander the great hype until he came back down to earth last saturday night. very disappointing showing on his part. but you've got to give kotelnik massive credit for taking the fight to him. still, devon is only 23 years old and will improve. has good power and speed but he's what i call more of a herky jerky type of puncher. most of his jabs hit nothing but air with no real strategic advantage. but i like the kid and his life story!
marcos rene maidana - tough as nails who can really punch. but he also has slow reflexes and can definitely be outboxed. if you outbox him like kotelnik did, he doesn't really know how to adjust. he only knows one way and that is brawling. this was the mistake victor ortiz did. he could of outboxed him all night long but got cocky and began trading with this tough argentine. would be at the mercy of the top three aforementioned fighters but will always have a puncher's chance.
joan guzman - very, very dangerous fighter. in fact, i would give him a great chance of beating any of the top welters. his second fight with ali funeka was masterful. he may be past 30 years old but he still has his skills and speed. his only problem is his lack of activity and his true lack of desire to be the best i.e. coming in overweight twice before.
victor ortiz - has all the skills he needs to succeed but i don't think has gotten (subconsciously) over his KO loss to maidana. seems to me he still has just a little doubt running through his head for him to realize his mass potential. still young and improving. maybe he should try to exercise his demons and rematch maidana after two or three more fights. if he can beat maidana in a rematch, he could go a long way.
zab judah - i still think this guy can be a great fighter again! coming down in weight probably did wonders for him. at welter, he seemed to get discouraged when his bigger opponents kept coming at him in the later rounds. but physically, he's got it all and could be a major player again.
andriy kotelnik - too bad he doesn't have much of a punch otherwise he would have beaten alexander. love his counterpunching skills and is as crafty a veteran as i've seen. love the way he fell behind but didn't panic. was in control mentally throughout the whole fight. i believe he can still be a force in the division but again, his only drawback is his lack of KO power which puts him in somewhat of a disadvantage.
SLEEPERS - watch out for venezuela's patrick lopez. this guy is a tough and extremely strong fighter. followed his career for a couple of years now and he could surprise and win a title this year or next. i think he would give any of the above mentioned fighters a tough fight right now.
another sleeper could be josesito lopez. i've been a big fan of his for about three years. btw, he's already beaten patrick lopez by SD so i know this guy can fight. hasn't been very active the last couple of years but has a big fight this friday night on espn2 vs. marvin cordova 21-1-1, who is also a pretty good prospect. if lopez wins decisively, he should be ready to fight the bigger names at jr. welter.
One of the best posts i've read on here in a while (with the exception of VD's gym girl advice). Only thing i would argue with is what you say about Malignaggi being on the slide. Plenty of people have said this lately, but it's not true imo. He was coming off what were probably his two best performances of his career both against Juan Diaz. The rest is great though. ;D
-
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
milmascaras1
here's the way i see the jr. welterweights. i think this division is still wide open as far as any one fighter distancing themselves from the rest.
timothy bradley - great little fighter with great speed and technique. on the short side and has been dropped (holt) so we still don't know how good his chin is because of his chin, he rarely gets tagged solidly. my favorite fighter at jr. welter because he comes to fight no matter how big or powerful his opponents are.
amir khan - even i don't like the guy, he still has impressed me with his overall skills and speed. i think roach has done wonders preparing him for his last two or three fights but i think it's time for him to ratchet it up a little bit and start fighting serious contenders. he's been feeding on fighters on the downside like barrera, malignaggi and a very ordinary salita. chin is still suspect. a very well managed fighter who has been protected thus far!
devon alexander - i too, was caught up in the alexander the great hype until he came back down to earth last saturday night. very disappointing showing on his part. but you've got to give kotelnik massive credit for taking the fight to him. still, devon is only 23 years old and will improve. has good power and speed but he's what i call more of a herky jerky type of puncher. most of his jabs hit nothing but air with no real strategic advantage. but i like the kid and his life story!
marcos rene maidana - tough as nails who can really punch. but he also has slow reflexes and can definitely be outboxed. if you outbox him like kotelnik did, he doesn't really know how to adjust. he only knows one way and that is brawling. this was the mistake victor ortiz did. he could of outboxed him all night long but got cocky and began trading with this tough argentine. would be at the mercy of the top three aforementioned fighters but will always have a puncher's chance.
joan guzman - very, very dangerous fighter. in fact, i would give him a great chance of beating any of the top welters. his second fight with ali funeka was masterful. he may be past 30 years old but he still has his skills and speed. his only problem is his lack of activity and his true lack of desire to be the best i.e. coming in overweight twice before.
victor ortiz - has all the skills he needs to succeed but i don't think has gotten (subconsciously) over his KO loss to maidana. seems to me he still has just a little doubt running through his head for him to realize his mass potential. still young and improving. maybe he should try to exercise his demons and rematch maidana after two or three more fights. if he can beat maidana in a rematch, he could go a long way.
zab judah - i still think this guy can be a great fighter again! coming down in weight probably did wonders for him. at welter, he seemed to get discouraged when his bigger opponents kept coming at him in the later rounds. but physically, he's got it all and could be a major player again.
andriy kotelnik - too bad he doesn't have much of a punch otherwise he would have beaten alexander. love his counterpunching skills and is as crafty a veteran as i've seen. love the way he fell behind but didn't panic. was in control mentally throughout the whole fight. i believe he can still be a force in the division but again, his only drawback is his lack of KO power which puts him in somewhat of a disadvantage.
SLEEPERS - watch out for venezuela's patrick lopez. this guy is a tough and extremely strong fighter. followed his career for a couple of years now and he could surprise and win a title this year or next. i think he would give any of the above mentioned fighters a tough fight right now.
another sleeper could be josesito lopez. i've been a big fan of his for about three years. btw, he's already beaten patrick lopez by SD so i know this guy can fight. hasn't been very active the last couple of years but has a big fight this friday night on espn2 vs. marvin cordova 21-1-1, who is also a pretty good prospect. if lopez wins decisively, he should be ready to fight the bigger names at jr. welter.
One of the best posts i've read on here in a while (with the exception of VD's gym girl advice). Only thing i would argue with is what you say about Malignaggi being on the slide. Plenty of people have said this lately, but it's not true imo. He was coming off what were probably his two best performances of his career both against Juan Diaz. The rest is great though. ;D
Ignore Ono, I especially agree with the part about Malinaggi! ;D
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
I don't think he's got the best skills, but I think he's far hungrier than any of the others and can happily take a punch and his record shows he can give one.
I thought the Kotelnik loss was in the same bracket as Kotelnik suffered the other night. Close, but still the wrong way.
It's a strange one with Maidana, I don't think he's the best boxer, but I do think he would beat any of the guys we're talking about. Khan and Alexander would really struggle with his power and speed.
As many times as those kinds of fighters are crowd favorites and people are quick to make then number one, history has shown time and time again it takes more then just the ability to take a punch and KO power that make you number 1.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
My top 4 JrWelts...
1. Maidana (very dangerous)
2. Alexander
3. Bradley
4. Khan
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pacstraightleft
My top 4 JrWelts...
1. Maidana (very dangerous)
2. Alexander
3. Bradley
4. Khan
Really ? :confused:
-
Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pacstraightleft
My top 4 JrWelts...
1. Maidana (very dangerous)
2. Alexander
3. Bradley
4. Khan
How did you make your list go upside down like that?
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Me old pal OJames and Pacsstraight say he is the best. ;D
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pacstraightleft
My top 4 JrWelts...
1. Maidana (very dangerous)
2. Alexander
3. Bradley
4. Khan
How did you make your list go upside down like that?
ag ag ag
think psl has been on the magic mushrooms far too often for my liking ;D;D;D
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
:-X
Erm, well................................
I was leaning towards him not being top guy after reading about that performance last night, but now, soley in the interest of defending my honour, I'm going full circle again and backing Maidana to be top dog at 140! ;D
Everyone is allowed a duff night, hell Mr Alexander couldn't get Corley out of there only 2 years ago, so he must have something there.
Let's not talk about about how Freddy Hernandez knocked Corley out in Feb though! :p
Corley was just having the fight of his life last night thats all, all that experience against the likes of Judah and Floyd came together for one last night only!
Thats the truth!
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
:-X
Erm, well................................
I was leaning towards him not being top guy after reading about that performance last night, but now, soley in the interest of defending my honour, I'm going full circle again and backing Maidana to be top dog at 140! ;D
Everyone is allowed a duff night, hell Mr Alexander couldn't get Corley out of there only 2 years ago, so he must have something there.
Let's not talk about about how Freddy Hernandez knocked Corley out in Feb though! :p
Corley was just having the fight of his life last night thats all, all that experience against the likes of Judah and Floyd came together for one last night only!
Thats the truth!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/...236832.jpg?v=0
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pacstraightleft
My top 4 JrWelts...
1. Maidana (very dangerous)
2. Alexander
3. Bradley
4. Khan
Really ? :confused:
Yes!
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pacstraightleft
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pacstraightleft
My top 4 JrWelts...
1. Maidana (very dangerous)
2. Alexander
3. Bradley
4. Khan
Really ? :confused:
Yes!
That's it mate. Help me fight this losing battle!
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
The most important thing for me about the 140 div. is when the fuck will JMM decide to go after a title and vs. who...
(From least dangerous to most)
I think he beats Maidana soundly...
After that I feel he has what it takes to break Devon down...
Amirs speed would be a huge factor here but quite honestly aside from his speed I feel JMM has the ability to get Amir to fight his fight and win on a mid-late stoppage.
Bradley would be the most dangerous because of the style that he brings and his strength. It's a really tough call for me here. I'd def. side and back JMM up.
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Re: Views on the 140 division now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
The most important thing for me about the 140 div. is when the fuck will JMM decide to go after a title and vs. who...
(From least dangerous to most)
I think he beats Maidana soundly...
After that I feel he has what it takes to break Devon down...
Amirs speed would be a huge factor here but quite honestly aside from his speed I feel JMM has the ability to get Amir to fight his fight and win on a mid-late stoppage.
Bradley would be the most dangerous because of the style that he brings and his strength. It's a really tough call for me here. I'd def. side and back JMM up.
I think that JMM has indicated that he's going to return to 135. I believe he's scheduled to fight Katsidis next.
Also,
Who are you ???
