Did that fight really make people believe that Manny will be able to beat Floyd?

I remember after Floyd beat Marquez people were starting to retract their belief that Manny would just run rampant on Floyd if they fought. Then Manny faced COtto and Clottey and that instilled the same enthusiasm in his fans until Floyd beat up Mosley whom many felt both Manny and Floyd were ducking. THen Manny faced the guy who Floyd has been given the most flack for not fighting in Antonio Margarito, and Manny has looked great, but does anyone think that Floyd wouldn't have pitched an absolute shut out against a guy as ordinary in skill as Antonio?

To me Manny has been hand fed the same makeup of opponent since moving up in weight. They have given him guys who allow Manny to make the most of his style and his speed. Diaz, ODLH(weight-drained), Hatton, Cotto, CLottey, and Margarito are all guys who come forward, and with the exception of a younger Oscar and Clottey they are all easy to hit. I will be the first to give Manny credit for looking absolutely amazing and being so tireless in training so that he could give the kind of performances he did, but these were all guys right there in front of him, and when anyone stands just right there in front of Manny they are going to lose. The one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork, but I would like to disagree to a certain extent this belief. I think it's curious that Manny was able to throw more punches than he ever did earlier in his career against guys so much bigger than him, but then I looked a little more closely. Manny's angles, combinations all came when his opponents were rooted to the ground. When Manny was dancing around these guys, they were simply following him, and standing their ground. Manny was basically given a punching bag that followed him around, and nobody looks faster or better on a heavybag than Manny Pacquiao. Go back and watch Pacquiao-marquez II and see Marquez either beat Manny to the punch with his right hand or take a step back to get just out of range of Manny's attack. This is from a guy who isn't even a particularly good defensive fighter, but he had a antidote to Manny's offense that looked so relentless against Morales two fights earlier, and watch Barrera go against Manny the second time. Or Jorge Solis, watch how that movement took away Manny's punch output.

Now I think Floyd would mostly come forward against Manny, but I think it would be in a similar way he did against Judah. I don't think he would be particularly lead leg heavy, and he would stay light on his feet so if Manny tried to come in with a combination that he could move away quickly and wait for Manny to be off balance before coming in, but I think he would also use similar tactics as Marquez and beat Manny to the punch because Manny kind of drops his hands before he ever throws punches in bunches, and a guy like Floyd could tee off on that. Furthermore watch how good offensively Mosley looked against Margarito, he looked amazingly fast, well conditioned, etc, etc. Even at the advanced stage of his career, but Floyd negated him, not because he was physically faster than Mosley as much as he was so much sharper in the ring. Now I saw Manny look great throwing punches at Margarito, Cotto, CLottey, etc, but I also saw Manny getting hit by punches on the outside, he is an amazing combination puncher, but he isn't the greatest boxer on the outside, and I think all it take is movement to dissipate Manny's offensive combinations, and then you have Manny at his weakest element and that's trying to box like Mayweather, Leonard, RJJ, Hopkins do. Take away his output and he is like any other fast fighter that isn't "different". What makes Manny different is his speed and power combined with his stamina. Floyd arguably has better stamina and vastly superior technique with the same speed. We've seen Manny exploited in the fact that he lacks true technique and I don't think his recent fights have forced him to change that. In fact I think his sparring in preparation for this fight prove that if Manny isn't at his fastest that he has a hard time with relatively ordinary fighters. Whereas a guy with really great technique can adapt way easier to variables in the ring.

Nah Floyd won't be moving forward and will be countering Pac all day long!

Any time I doubt against Floyd, I just go back and watch his old fights... The mind can distort things over time and you can really convince yourself of anything if you think it about things a certain way...

Until anyone makes judgment about Pac's chances, go and watch those fights.. And remember what was thought of his opponents before they faced Mayweather... And how little effect any of their "assets" had against him..

Exactly my point, I would almost always put my money on the guy who stops the other guy from doing what they want to do as opposed to the guy who needs to do his thing in order to win. We've seen Mayweather change it up and have actually seen him fight any type of fight necessary to trouble his opponent, we haven't seen Manny change it up, we've just seen him, excuse the grammar, out offensive offensive fighters because he hits faster, longer, harder, etc.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Nah Floyd won't be moving forward and will be countering Pac all day long!

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That's what people told me he would do against Shane.

I still believe 100% Floyd beats Pac no problem i think Roach and Pacquiao just do a good job at fooling everyone end of the day these recent opponents have recently been beaten or have had to make a catchweight or both.

Morales washed up Zahir Raheem beat him easy for god sake

David Diaz very nearly lost to the washed up Morales

De la Hoya weight drained beyond belief had to be re hydrated by IV before fight

Hatton was basically done after Mayweather look at the Lazcano fight

Cotto already been demolished by Margarito and nearly lost to Clottey and had to weigh 145lbs

Clottey just came to survive 12 rounds had been beaten by Cotto already

Margarito had been demolished by Mosley in his fight before last and was having to come down to 150lbs

I am convinced of it. I know styles make fights, but Pac is the all round package. Floyd is getting on now and has only recently beaten fighters who are getting on themselves or are totally out of their weight class. I question Floyds hunger and I question just how far beyond his own peak he is himself. The younger Floyd was a beast, but the older one is so much more conservative. He potshots and his legs are going. He cannot trade with Manny because Manny will keep on trading after Floyd has finished his 2-3 punch combination. And while Floyd is shelled up Manny will just hit everything else. Not scoring punches, but enough to keep Floyd from taking too many risks. Floyd can't take risks because Manny is quicker and will hurt him more.

Manny is just too good right now and I don't think anybody, not even Floyd, can keep him at bay over 12 rounds.

Nah, Lately Manny looks great but as someone already stated it was against guys with asterisks by their names because of the circumstances surrounding them entering the fights. Oh wait so does floyd.... Old oscar, hatton sucks at 147, JMM was two divisions smaller, Shane was 38 and overtrained, etc etc etc...

Nevertheless I think Floyd exploits Manny's balance, but it will be very difficult to catch all those punches from the angles that Manny throws them. I think the only reason FLoyd fought JMM was to prove to himself that he could he beat Pacman. But yeah Floyd still wins, either on the inside or outside he'll win however he chooses to because he has too much knowledge...

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

I still believe 100% Floyd beats Pac no problem i think Roach and Pacquiao just do a good job at fooling everyone end of the day these recent opponents have recently been beaten or have had to make a catchweight or both.

Morales washed up Zahir Raheem beat him easy for god sake

David Diaz very nearly lost to the washed up Morales

De la Hoya weight drained beyond belief had to be re hydrated by IV before fight

Hatton was basically done after Mayweather look at the Lazcano fight

Cotto already been demolished by Margarito and nearly lost to Clottey and had to weigh 145lbs

Clottey just came to survive 12 rounds had been beaten by Cotto already

Margarito had been demolished by Mosley in his fight before last and was having to come down to 150lbs

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I love 20/20 hindsight analysis.;D

Am I the only person who saw a performance full of holes from Pac in that fight?

He got tagged way too easy on numerous occasions and against someone with better timing and defence, he could have really got hurt then.

Pac was good, but from that performance I didn't see anything new that I think Floyd would be scared of, if anything I saw signs of aging where Pac is very slowly getting worse not better. Undeniable talent and I love the guy, but I think the longer the PBF fight takes to happen, the more chance there is Pac loses.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

I still believe 100% Floyd beats Pac no problem i think Roach and Pacquiao just do a good job at fooling everyone end of the day these recent opponents have recently been beaten or have had to make a catchweight or both.

Morales washed up Zahir Raheem beat him easy for god sake

David Diaz very nearly lost to the washed up Morales

De la Hoya weight drained beyond belief had to be re hydrated by IV before fight

Hatton was basically done after Mayweather look at the Lazcano fight

Cotto already been demolished by Margarito and nearly lost to Clottey and had to weigh 145lbs

Clottey just came to survive 12 rounds had been beaten by Cotto already

Margarito had been demolished by Mosley in his fight before last and was having to come down to 150lbs

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I love 20/20 hindsight analysis.;D

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Yeah 20/20 hindsight analysis is funny... It's also funny how Shane beating Margarito at 147 is a completely legitimate win, and Floyd beating Shane at 147 is a legitimate win, yet Pac giving Margarito an extra 3 pounds of 150, is "making him kill himself to make weight"... Forget that their was 17 pounds different on fight night and Margarito rehydrate as you would expect of a fit fighter..

And it's easy to say these opponents had question marks over them, but aside from Oscar, each would still be favorite to beat 9 out of 10 guys in their division.....

Floyd and Pac suffer the same problem.. They dominate their opponents so thoroughly that people can easily say that they are "past it" or "hand picked for their style"..

But against anyone else they would be competitive at the least, and an insurmountable challenge in probable reality...

At 140 or 147 or 154, who would you have given Pac more credit for beating in this fight? And you have to take into account the fight needs to at least sell a little.. Yes money does matter to these guys.. But's it's apples to apples when picking a fighter for them.. They'll completely dominate, and someone will say they were hand picked for his style...

Pac is just in a different league to those around him.. Same as Floyd... I gave up detracting from Floyds accomplishments long ago.. The fact is, they take fighters who are better than everyone else, and make them look like they have serious question marks over them...

I guess unless someone is in a war and only JUUUUST win,,,, unless the fight isn't TOO easy, people will say they beat an overrated, underdone fighter.... Maybe Pac should have given Margarito 5 rounds and made him look closer to Pac's level of greatness, to win over the people who see an outstanding performance, and instead of calling that performance like it is,,,, turn and just look at why the other person wasn't competitive...

Sometimes, just sometimes, fighters dominate because they are that good.. Not because their opponents are useless..

But people will go on saying that forever if they want to explain why someone wins so thoroughly.. i'm over it...

No...I don't think that Pacquiao would, could, or will defeat/dethrone Floyd.

I was surprised that he handled the size...or made it through the size of Margarito.

Floyd's an insane counter puncher & an even nuttier body man...I think Pac would have a career ending night...or possibly career defining...who's to say anything's impossible.

But my money'd be on Floyd...but then I'm a fan of that assbag...so what else?

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Originally Posted by Dizaster

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

I still believe 100% Floyd beats Pac no problem i think Roach and Pacquiao just do a good job at fooling everyone end of the day these recent opponents have recently been beaten or have had to make a catchweight or both.

Morales washed up Zahir Raheem beat him easy for god sake

David Diaz very nearly lost to the washed up Morales

De la Hoya weight drained beyond belief had to be re hydrated by IV before fight

Hatton was basically done after Mayweather look at the Lazcano fight

Cotto already been demolished by Margarito and nearly lost to Clottey and had to weigh 145lbs

Clottey just came to survive 12 rounds had been beaten by Cotto already

Margarito had been demolished by Mosley in his fight before last and was having to come down to 150lbs

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I love 20/20 hindsight analysis.;D

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Yeah 20/20 hindsight analysis is funny... It's also funny how Shane beating Margarito at 147 is a completely legitimate win, and Floyd beating Shane at 147 is a legitimate win, yet Pac giving Margarito an extra 3 pounds of 150, is "making him kill himself to make weight"... Forget that their was 17 pounds different on fight night and Margarito rehydrate as you would expect of a fit fighter..

And it's easy to say these opponents had question marks over them, but aside from Oscar, each would still be favorite to beat 9 out of 10 guys in their division.....

Floyd and Pac suffer the same problem.. They dominate their opponents so thoroughly that people can easily say that they are "past it" or "hand picked for their style"..

But against anyone else they would be competitive at the least, and an insurmountable challenge in probable reality...

At 140 or 147 or 154, who would you have given Pac more credit for beating in this fight? And you have to take into account the fight needs to at least sell a little.. Yes money does matter to these guys.. But's it's apples to apples when picking a fighter for them.. They'll completely dominate, and someone will say they were hand picked for his style...

Pac is just in a different league to those around him.. Same as Floyd... I gave up detracting from Floyds accomplishments long ago.. The fact is, they take fighters who are better than everyone else, and make them look like they have serious question marks over them...

I guess unless someone is in a war and only JUUUUST win,,,, unless the fight isn't TOO easy, people will say they beat an overrated, underdone fighter.... Maybe Pac should have given Margarito 5 rounds and made him look closer to Pac's level of greatness, to win over the people who see an outstanding performance, and instead of calling that performance like it is,,,, turn and just look at why the other person wasn't competitive...

Sometimes, just sometimes, fighters dominate because they are that good.. Not because their opponents are useless..

But people will go on saying that forever if they want to explain why someone wins so thoroughly.. i'm over it...

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20/20 hindsight analysis is not the only funny part. The other funny part is when people with these hindsight analysis acts like Nostradamus. I sure wonder why they didn't get it right in the 1st place and then after it happened, it's because of this and that.;D

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20/20 hindsight analysis is not the only funny part. The other funny part is when people with these hindsight analysis acts like Nostradamus. I sure wonder why they didn't get it right in the 1st place and then after it happened, it's because of this and that.;D

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So true... and soooo funny. They speak and portray themselves with an authoritative air, but only to spout the most distinctive of all the bull craps. Ala Ted Altasesque... a first class clown! I don't know what it is that keeps them going on believing that they have not been found yet, and that people still, have not actually found their inner most serious thoughts that they've held in esteem, as farcical!

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

I still believe 100% Floyd beats Pac no problem i think Roach and Pacquiao just do a good job at fooling everyone end of the day these recent opponents have recently been beaten or have had to make a catchweight or both.

Morales washed up Zahir Raheem beat him easy for god sake

David Diaz very nearly lost to the washed up Morales

De la Hoya weight drained beyond belief had to be re hydrated by IV before fight

Hatton was basically done after Mayweather look at the Lazcano fight

Cotto already been demolished by Margarito and nearly lost to Clottey and had to weigh 145lbs

Clottey just came to survive 12 rounds had been beaten by Cotto already

Margarito had been demolished by Mosley in his fight before last and was having to come down to 150lbs

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So how about a comparision with Floyd??? :rolleyes:

That was a woeful effort, did You miss Hatton v Malinaggi??

This performance should have no influence whatsoever on people's opinions of a mayweather v pacquiao outcome. Bottom line it that they are both extremely gifted and have both beat people much bigger than them now. I am not a fan of Mayweather's persona but let's not forget about what he did to a much bigger Corrales. Not taking side but just throwing that out there for arguments sake.

I'll take Pac over Mayweather all day now......Money May doesn't want any of that and if Mosley and some other guys can touch Floyd then you have to figure as fast as Manny can put punches together that he can not only hurt Floyd but drop him too and more than likely stop him. I know Margarito isn't a top defensive fighter and neither was Hatton or Cotto or even De la Hoya but Manny can bring the pain and I'd say those guys are all pretty tough and Manny just walked right through them for the most part.

I must say I will thoroughly enjoy seeing Mayweather get his shit handed to him.

Actually, it's more like... that fight made most people believe Floyd shit his pants last night.

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

Actually, it's more like... that fight made most people believe Floyd shit his pants last night.

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More like it made Floyd say "Damn I didn't even beat my Baby Mama that bad"




:-\ .....yes I know domestic violence is not a funny issue ;D

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

I still believe 100% Floyd beats Pac no problem i think Roach and Pacquiao just do a good job at fooling everyone end of the day these recent opponents have recently been beaten or have had to make a catchweight or both.

Morales washed up Zahir Raheem beat him easy for god sake

David Diaz very nearly lost to the washed up Morales

De la Hoya weight drained beyond belief had to be re hydrated by IV before fight

Hatton was basically done after Mayweather look at the Lazcano fight

Cotto already been demolished by Margarito and nearly lost to Clottey and had to weigh 145lbs

Clottey just came to survive 12 rounds had been beaten by Cotto already

Margarito had been demolished by Mosley in his fight before last and was having to come down to 150lbs

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Just out of curiosity, can you answer for me this question. When do you think Pacquiao and Mayweather reached their prime and when do you think it started declining, or do you still consider them to be in their prime?

The fight made me think Pac can beat Margarito;D

I've wanted to see a Floyd/Pac fight for a while now because it should be a good one. Not sure who wins it, which is why it will be a cracking fight.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

Actually, it's more like... that fight made most people believe Floyd shit his pants last night.

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More like it made Floyd say "Damn I didn't even beat my Baby Mama that bad"




:-\ .....yes I know domestic violence is not a funny issue ;D

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Lmfao! :rotflmao:

I wish Floyd was as confident in his skills as some of the responses I've seen in this thread.

I've thought Manny would beat Floyd long before last nights bout. The shoulder roll isn't nearly as effective versus southpaws, Manny is just as fast, with more power, and throws at least twice as many punches, accurately. Seeing how Corley and Judah were able to touch up Floyd, I don't see Manny having that problem at all. Combine that with Mannys angles, and ability to finish, and it spells disaster for Floyd. His father knows it, he knows it, we all know it.

Its exactly why Floyd needs all of these extra tests even though he says Manny is one dimensional, ordinary, easy work and easy money.

If Manny was all that,

Floyd would have done it already.

I was convinced Floyd would beat Pac after dominating Shane like no other fighter has especially after coming back from the shaky round. After Manny Pac's last performance, I simply do not know. Manny was awesome in that fight against a bigger, stronger and durable fighter. Yet Manny took the uppercuts and body shots and punched in flurries throughout the fight. He was amzazing, I just want the fight to happen but simply cannot pick a winner.

No, because Margarito is nothing like Floyd. Who cares though? We will see Manny fight again before we see him fight Floyd. I bet against Shane and this last fight did convince me that he will beat Shane.

I thought Mayweather would beat Pac before last night and I still believe he will. Hopefully we'll get the fight when his legal issues are cleared up, and it should be a terrific fight. I see Pac being a huge test, but I can't see him being too busy if whenever he throws 3-4 punch combos he misses and gets tagged by a hard counter. I could well be wrong and it may be that Floyd will have no answer to the punches in bunches etc that Manny will throw, but I just see him walking him onto counters all night. Should be fascinating to watch though, if it ever happens. Which could be a big if.

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Originally Posted by miles

I am convinced of it. I know styles make fights, but Pac is the all round package. Floyd is getting on now and has only recently beaten fighters who are getting on themselves or are totally out of their weight class. I question Floyds hunger and I question just how far beyond his own peak he is himself. The younger Floyd was a beast, but the older one is so much more conservative. He potshots and his legs are going. He cannot trade with Manny because Manny will keep on trading after Floyd has finished his 2-3 punch combination. And while Floyd is shelled up Manny will just hit everything else. Not scoring punches, but enough to keep Floyd from taking too many risks. Floyd can't take risks because Manny is quicker and will hurt him more.

Manny is just too good right now and I don't think anybody, not even Floyd, can keep him at bay over 12 rounds.

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Why would Floyd trade with Manny? Marquez doesn't throw the same combinations that Manny does and he outboxed Manny at points in their fights, and he is nowhere near as fast as Floyd. And watching Manny throw anything except combinations Floyd is faster than him when it comes to individual punches, and Pacquiao won't be able to unload combinations when everytime he's about to get started he gets popped hard by Floyd.

We've seen time and time again that Manny doesn't throw as many punches when guys are landing cleanly on him and he isn't landing cleanly in return. Against Clottey I consider it landing while not landing, He wasn't hitting Clottey cleanly 90% of the time, but it's different missing the target all together. There are no signs that Floyd's legs are going at all, We've seen him fight more physically in his last two fights, and he didn't really need to use footwork, but we did see when Floyd pulled back and away from Marquez and Mosley they weren't fast enough to land anything on him.

I was very surprised by the amount of times I saw Margarito land horribly slow punches on Manny. Pacquiao has become such a combination punching machine that he hasn't developed a slow, methodical style as well, and Floyd will slow his output down, and make it his type of fight. Manny will be lost by the middle rounds and Floyd might even stop him late with the consistent body attack he uses on southpaws.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

Nah, Lately Manny looks great but as someone already stated it was against guys with asterisks by their names because of the circumstances surrounding them entering the fights. Oh wait so does floyd.... Old oscar, hatton sucks at 147, JMM was two divisions smaller, Shane was 38 and overtrained, etc etc etc...

Nevertheless I think Floyd exploits Manny's balance, but it will be very difficult to catch all those punches from the angles that Manny throws them. I think the only reason FLoyd fought JMM was to prove to himself that he could he beat Pacman. But yeah Floyd still wins, either on the inside or outside he'll win however he chooses to because he has too much knowledge...

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When FLoyd fought Oscar, De La Hoya had the same size advantage weight wise that Margarito had over Manny. Floyd came in at 150 and Oscar was at least 165 for that fight. But it was Oscar, a guy way faster than Margarito, way more skilled, a bigger puncher and a guy who used to beat of Antonio when they sparred together. Oscar still had his speed and he honestly was better defensively than he had been in years.

Against Manny he weighed 148 coming, and actually was outweighed by Manny on fight night.

I give both Manny and Floyd credit for beating Hatton. I think there is no proof Hatton looked bad at welterweight, he just looked bad against southpaws if his career said anything. He looked fast, and extremely sharp when he fought Floyd, but Floyd was sharper and surprisingly a better inside fighter despite the fact Hatton was naturally bigger and stronger. Shane Mosley was overtrained? Give me a break, Marquez didn't use that excuse when their bout was pushed back and he isn't super young, guys like Floyd and Hopkins work hard year round when they are fighting and they don't complain about being overtrained. Mayweather actually trains hard all the way up to the fight which most guys consider suicide. I remember fight week for the Gatti fight, Floyd actually when to a local gym and took all comers, and actually reportedly stopped most of the guys he faced.

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Originally Posted by Right Handed Southpaw

I wish Floyd was as confident in his skills as some of the responses I've seen in this thread.

I've thought Manny would beat Floyd long before last nights bout. The shoulder roll isn't nearly as effective versus southpaws, Manny is just as fast, with more power, and throws at least twice as many punches, accurately. Seeing how Corley and Judah were able to touch up Floyd, I don't see Manny having that problem at all. Combine that with Mannys angles, and ability to finish, and it spells disaster for Floyd. His father knows it, he knows it, we all know it.

Its exactly why Floyd needs all of these extra tests even though he says Manny is one dimensional, ordinary, easy work and easy money.

If Manny was all that,

Floyd would have done it already.

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He said the same thing about Mosley, but they didn't fight until they did and look what Mayweather showed us, same with every other guy he faced pretty much. Even after Castillo 1 where he tore his rotator cuff, he said he felt it wasn't that difficult of a fight and faced the toughest challenge of his career again, immediately.

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Originally Posted by Right Handed Southpaw

I wish Floyd was as confident in his skills as some of the responses I've seen in this thread.

I've thought Manny would beat Floyd long before last nights bout. The shoulder roll isn't nearly as effective versus southpaws, Manny is just as fast, with more power, and throws at least twice as many punches, accurately. Seeing how Corley and Judah were able to touch up Floyd, I don't see Manny having that problem at all. Combine that with Mannys angles, and ability to finish, and it spells disaster for Floyd. His father knows it, he knows it, we all know it.

Its exactly why Floyd needs all of these extra tests even though he says Manny is one dimensional, ordinary, easy work and easy money.

If Manny was all that,

Floyd would have done it already.

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Cause Roids are Roids

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I remember after Floyd beat Marquez people were starting to retract their belief that Manny would just run rampant on Floyd if they fought. Then Manny faced COtto and Clottey and that instilled the same enthusiasm in his fans until Floyd beat up Mosley whom many felt both Manny and Floyd were ducking. THen Manny faced the guy who Floyd has been given the most flack for not fighting in Antonio Margarito, and Manny has looked great, but does anyone think that Floyd wouldn't have pitched an absolute shut out against a guy as ordinary in skill as Antonio?

To me Manny has been hand fed the same makeup of opponent since moving up in weight. They have given him guys who allow Manny to make the most of his style and his speed. Diaz, ODLH(weight-drained), Hatton, Cotto, CLottey, and Margarito are all guys who come forward, and with the exception of a younger Oscar and Clottey they are all easy to hit. I will be the first to give Manny credit for looking absolutely amazing and being so tireless in training so that he could give the kind of performances he did, but these were all guys right there in front of him, and when anyone stands just right there in front of Manny they are going to lose. The one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork, but I would like to disagree to a certain extent this belief. I think it's curious that Manny was able to throw more punches than he ever did earlier in his career against guys so much bigger than him, but then I looked a little more closely. Manny's angles, combinations all came when his opponents were rooted to the ground. When Manny was dancing around these guys, they were simply following him, and standing their ground. Manny was basically given a punching bag that followed him around, and nobody looks faster or better on a heavybag than Manny Pacquiao. Go back and watch Pacquiao-marquez II and see Marquez either beat Manny to the punch with his right hand or take a step back to get just out of range of Manny's attack. This is from a guy who isn't even a particularly good defensive fighter, but he had a antidote to Manny's offense that looked so relentless against Morales two fights earlier, and watch Barrera go against Manny the second time. Or Jorge Solis, watch how that movement took away Manny's punch output.

Now I think Floyd would mostly come forward against Manny, but I think it would be in a similar way he did against Judah. I don't think he would be particularly lead leg heavy, and he would stay light on his feet so if Manny tried to come in with a combination that he could move away quickly and wait for Manny to be off balance before coming in, but I think he would also use similar tactics as Marquez and beat Manny to the punch because Manny kind of drops his hands before he ever throws punches in bunches, and a guy like Floyd could tee off on that. Furthermore watch how good offensively Mosley looked against Margarito, he looked amazingly fast, well conditioned, etc, etc. Even at the advanced stage of his career, but Floyd negated him, not because he was physically faster than Mosley as much as he was so much sharper in the ring. Now I saw Manny look great throwing punches at Margarito, Cotto, CLottey, etc, but I also saw Manny getting hit by punches on the outside, he is an amazing combination puncher, but he isn't the greatest boxer on the outside, and I think all it take is movement to dissipate Manny's offensive combinations, and then you have Manny at his weakest element and that's trying to box like Mayweather, Leonard, RJJ, Hopkins do. Take away his output and he is like any other fast fighter that isn't "different". What makes Manny different is his speed and power combined with his stamina. Floyd arguably has better stamina and vastly superior technique with the same speed. We've seen Manny exploited in the fact that he lacks true technique and I don't think his recent fights have forced him to change that. In fact I think his sparring in preparation for this fight prove that if Manny isn't at his fastest that he has a hard time with relatively ordinary fighters. Whereas a guy with really great technique can adapt way easier to variables in the ring.

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So why is Floyd not wanting to fight Manny?

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I remember after Floyd beat Marquez people were starting to retract their belief that Manny would just run rampant on Floyd if they fought. Then Manny faced COtto and Clottey and that instilled the same enthusiasm in his fans until Floyd beat up Mosley whom many felt both Manny and Floyd were ducking. THen Manny faced the guy who Floyd has been given the most flack for not fighting in Antonio Margarito, and Manny has looked great, but does anyone think that Floyd wouldn't have pitched an absolute shut out against a guy as ordinary in skill as Antonio?

To me Manny has been hand fed the same makeup of opponent since moving up in weight. They have given him guys who allow Manny to make the most of his style and his speed. Diaz, ODLH(weight-drained), Hatton, Cotto, CLottey, and Margarito are all guys who come forward, and with the exception of a younger Oscar and Clottey they are all easy to hit. I will be the first to give Manny credit for looking absolutely amazing and being so tireless in training so that he could give the kind of performances he did, but these were all guys right there in front of him, and when anyone stands just right there in front of Manny they are going to lose. The one guy actually of all of them that was IMO the most impressive win for Manny was against Hatton, because he actually has fast footwork and he uses angles coming in, but he couldn't overcome those huge mistakes that he makes against southpaws in particular, and Manny was the absolutely antithesis of the type of guy hatton could get away with those mistakes again. But these guys made Manny look like a non-stop punching machine with power, counter punching ability, a great chin, and great footwork, but I would like to disagree to a certain extent this belief. I think it's curious that Manny was able to throw more punches than he ever did earlier in his career against guys so much bigger than him, but then I looked a little more closely. Manny's angles, combinations all came when his opponents were rooted to the ground. When Manny was dancing around these guys, they were simply following him, and standing their ground. Manny was basically given a punching bag that followed him around, and nobody looks faster or better on a heavybag than Manny Pacquiao. Go back and watch Pacquiao-marquez II and see Marquez either beat Manny to the punch with his right hand or take a step back to get just out of range of Manny's attack. This is from a guy who isn't even a particularly good defensive fighter, but he had a antidote to Manny's offense that looked so relentless against Morales two fights earlier, and watch Barrera go against Manny the second time. Or Jorge Solis, watch how that movement took away Manny's punch output.

Now I think Floyd would mostly come forward against Manny, but I think it would be in a similar way he did against Judah. I don't think he would be particularly lead leg heavy, and he would stay light on his feet so if Manny tried to come in with a combination that he could move away quickly and wait for Manny to be off balance before coming in, but I think he would also use similar tactics as Marquez and beat Manny to the punch because Manny kind of drops his hands before he ever throws punches in bunches, and a guy like Floyd could tee off on that. Furthermore watch how good offensively Mosley looked against Margarito, he looked amazingly fast, well conditioned, etc, etc. Even at the advanced stage of his career, but Floyd negated him, not because he was physically faster than Mosley as much as he was so much sharper in the ring. Now I saw Manny look great throwing punches at Margarito, Cotto, CLottey, etc, but I also saw Manny getting hit by punches on the outside, he is an amazing combination puncher, but he isn't the greatest boxer on the outside, and I think all it take is movement to dissipate Manny's offensive combinations, and then you have Manny at his weakest element and that's trying to box like Mayweather, Leonard, RJJ, Hopkins do. Take away his output and he is like any other fast fighter that isn't "different". What makes Manny different is his speed and power combined with his stamina. Floyd arguably has better stamina and vastly superior technique with the same speed. We've seen Manny exploited in the fact that he lacks true technique and I don't think his recent fights have forced him to change that. In fact I think his sparring in preparation for this fight prove that if Manny isn't at his fastest that he has a hard time with relatively ordinary fighters. Whereas a guy with really great technique can adapt way easier to variables in the ring.

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So why is Floyd not wanting to fight Manny?

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It's because Manny is on A-side meth.;)

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

No, because Margarito is nothing like Floyd. Who cares though? We will see Manny fight again before we see him fight Floyd. I bet against Shane and this last fight did convince me that he will beat Shane.

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Agreed, Shane wont only be in front of him he'll come forward fully committed and without angles of reply he is doomed. Floyd has the answers ,has he the balls?

If anything, I am just so shocked at how Pacquiao's endurance and "natural" stamina did not seem to lose any pop after hundreds and hundreds of power punches thrown over thirty plus minutes.

Taeth...great posts man. I am in awe at how much people are drinking the Pac kool aid. I have always been critical of Floyd's resume...but there is no question that he is the most gifted pure boxer in the sport. Bottom line for me...the last great, prime fighter Manny faced was Marquez. Juan showed how an intelligent and skilled fighter can exploit Manny. But the incredible hype on Pac has been based on his recent fights. These are all fighters that had big question marks going into their duel with Pac...but more importantly...they where handpicked because Pac had a CLEAR speed advantage. Despite that...Manny has still shown (even last night) that his defense is filled with holes. While his flurry of punches and action packed style is exciting...it can be tremendously exploited by a fighter that is skilled and fast. People keep pointing out that because Pac can take a punch from a bigger guy...this somehow translates to how will do against Floyd. Or better yet...because he can land combos on bums like Margo...he will do the same to Floyd?! Wake up sheep!!! It's easy to hit a slow, stationary target that comes forward. It's a whole other thing to hit probably the greatest defensive fighter of all time. Pac can fight one way. Floyd can adapt to anything. Floyd will do what Marquez did except 100 times more effectively. Mayweather will be content on picking Pac apart with laser like precision. He could care less about a brawl or war. He will put on a master class. But for some of you...you think a big win over a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater is evidence of Pac winning??!!! Sure thing.

Marquez could also take a punch....Floyd, not so much

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

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Well if it was no big deal then of course Floyd will be more than willing to fight Manny to make the big time money that fight offers.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Mayweather while out box Manny like he does anyone else, beating Margarito doesn't change thing. I mean come on Mosley beat Margarito quicker Manny did so not like he did anything special.

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He deformed Marg's face. That's special enough to me.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Marquez could also take a punch....Floyd, not so much

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Which fight was is where floyd was floored or out out on his feet?