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above without a doubt
he is in his prime now
i am bored of talking about manny :)
Nobody is forcing you to talk about manny. We do have other topics, click on those ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
somehow pacquiao fans love for people to make the focal point in everything related to boxing. it kinda massages their egos. manny's this, manny's that, manny can cure cancer, manny will be president, manny should win the nobel peace prize, blah blah blah blah. question, don't pacquiao fans know about any other boxers? how about talking about rey bautista and his comeback, or a.j. banal or bernabe concepcion? these guys are fighters too and would like a following as well but no, manny, manny, manny. it's like a damned cult. poor things!!!
You're an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Manny is talked about because he is the most exciting boxer in the world, the biggest superstar since De La Hoya and far more talented.
More annoying are the people who post just as much about Manny, but only negative hate.
Why are you talking about him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Agreed it's pathetic.
It's a valid boxing thread. I'd say he's reached his peak above lightweight. Not only in terms of physical abilities but skill wise too.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Milmascaras1, you're actually the one blowing this out of proportion with your sarcastic remarks. And no it's not a damned cult. Because pac's gone way past the point where he only has a cult following. Didn't think that would backfire on you did you? One of these days I'm gonna make a pac thread too just so I could take a piss at your reaction. ;)
Also, if you look closely at the pac threads currently in the 1st page of this forum, it's mafiajoey and erics44 who made the other 2. Weird that you're here complaining about the abundance of pac threads and not in those other two. Maybe because it's Julius Rain who posted this?
bilbao,
no, the idiot is you. and first off, do you really think pacquiao was better than a prime de la hoya? man, that kool-aid must really taste good, huh?
i know dude, i dunno why i opened the threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainNobody is forcing you to talk about manny. We do have other topics, click on those ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
twice :)
You don't think Manny is better than a prime Oscar?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Manny is one of the best boxers of all time, already probably top 10, if he beat Floyd he would be top 5.
Yes he is better than a prime Oscar. Oscar lost every significant he ever fought, Trinidad, Mosley, Hopkins, Mayweather.
Manny beat everybody, how do they even compare?
Look at his resume
Morales
Barrera
Marquez
Hatton
De La Hoya
Cotto
All of them may yet make the Hall of Fame.
bilbao,
damn, i want some of that kool-aid too. must really be fulfilling!!! but anyways:
- you think a prime pacquiao beats a prime de la hoya? sure oscar lost some big fights but you've got to also look at his competition. ALL OF THEM WERE PRIME FIGHTERS! who has pacquiao beaten that is in their prime? you'll got to go back many, many years like the first barrera fight for that!
- morales was already a spent fighter when he fought pacquiao the first time. hell, he was coming off a hard loss to barrera. he was already having troubles making weight. lookie here, a 70% morales gave pacquiao a nice little boxing lesson and sent him home crying!
- barrera - no arguments there. i still believe barrera was in his prime when pacquiao tore him apart. barrera was a finesse boxer after the junior jones fights. he had no answer to pacquiao's unorthodox style.
- marquez - yeah, did you know that knockdowns aren't the only things that win you fights? it's about winning the most rounds or knocking out your opponent. something in which pacquiao was unable to do. look, there is a major reason why pacquiao declined a third fight with marquez. hmmm, i wonder why? maybe because marquez made him see the devil and pacquiao didn't want any more of that? besides, the boxing world wanted to see that fight and marquez even traveled to the philippines to confront pacquiao in front of his fans and a humiliated pacquiao could only utter something like, uh, um, i, wazzzzz, uh, aa, only, aa uh, lucky. what a ducker pacquiao was!
- lol...do you really think hatton was that good to begin with? sure, he was undefeated at jr. welter but who did he fight in that division? he sure as hell didn't fight anybody good. and besides, mayweather took his zero and frankly, hatton was never the same again. but i will admit though, that was a sickening knockout at the hands of pacquiao!!!
- regarding miguel angel cotto - the signs were there that he was on the downside. margarito (loaded gloves or not) ruined him. not to mention the catchweight in which pacquiao demanded for this fight. another hollow victory if you ask me.
listen, i'm not a pac hater. i just don't think he's the greatest thing since hotdogs, apple pie and chevrolet!!!
I'm curious to see what milmascaras1 response to this will be. Is there even going to be one?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanum26It's a valid boxing thread. I'd say he's reached his peak above lightweight. Not only in terms of physical abilities but skill wise too.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Milmascaras1, you're actually the one blowing this out of proportion with your sarcastic remarks. And no it's not a damned cult. Because pac's gone way past the point where he only has a cult following. Didn't think that would backfire on you did you? One of these days I'm gonna make a pac thread too just so I could take a piss at your reaction. ;)
Also, if you look closely at the pac threads currently in the 1st page of this forum, it's mafiajoey and erics44 who made the other 2. Weird that you're here complaining about the abundance of pac threads and not in those other two. Maybe because it's Julius Rain who posted this?
Now to answer the question, I'd say above lightweight.
who is julius rain? he's a nobody! i could care less about rain!!! lol
Great question I would say lower weights but he did lose at these weights and he has got technically better, can I change that vote?
You know better than that. A blind man would tell you De La Hoya did not lose to Trinidad. And he went 1-1 with Mosley. A fighter being robbed should not be held against him. As for the thread question. Manny hit his prime as a Featherweight. Everything done at 130 and above should be discarded due to his steroid usage. Only a fool would think that Pacquiao gigantic ass head is normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYou don't think Manny is better than a prime Oscar?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Manny is one of the best boxers of all time, already probably top 10, if he beat Floyd he would be top 5.
Yes he is better than a prime Oscar. Oscar lost every significant he ever fought, Trinidad, Mosley, Hopkins, Mayweather.
Manny beat everybody, how do they even compare?
Look at his resume
Morales
Barrera
Marquez
Hatton
De La Hoya
Cotto
All of them may yet make the Hall of Fame.
If a gigantic head makes him guilty then Oscar is on drugs too.
I think with any fighter thier prime all depends on who you talk to. A fan, media, the fighter himself etc. Basically the way it's used most often is if a fighter is winning he's in his prime, when he looses to someone better everyone says he's past it. It's usually used for people who like certain fighters as well. If a guy wins who you don't like, just say he won cause his opponet was past his prime. This term is used more as an excuse than it is a measure of the condition of a fighter.
To me the one thing Pac has yet to do is beat a prime undefeated fighter. As oh late seems to pick up peoples left overs and i mean Mayweather gets shit for it but if pac does it seems not as many care. I don't like either but Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito all had career ending ass kicking's. Then all the sudden pac fights them after it, Pac is in the top 25 for sure but i think hes best was in the lower weights.
One more thing when talking about Pac's spot in history is when he starts to lose and gets older. I mean look at what happen to Holyfeild to me he is one of the greatest but as he keeps on fighting, i am sure other peoples view of were he should be would change.
I remember old ass Merchant once said this, "A great fighter should only be judge when he's at his best not when he's not." Holyfield is still the greatest CW champ and a top 5 HW in history by many knowledgeable fans and boxing people, nothing has changed because he's still fighting.
Duran fought on too long after his best days, he's still regarded as a top 10 fighter ever.
Well i can agree on some of the gen but i find it hard to believe it has no effect at all.
When a fighter is past his prime and loses it really doesn't affect his legacy by many knowledgeable people, but it can only enhance his legacy if he wins, take Hopkins for example, he had a great victory over an undefeated Pavlik and if he pulls it off against Pascal it only enhances his resume, even if he were to lose people can say he wasn't in his prime which is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
That guy is an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYou're an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Manny is talked about because he is the most exciting boxer in the world, the biggest superstar since De La Hoya and far more talented.
More annoying are the people who post just as much about Manny, but only negative hate.
Why are you talking about him?
rain,
no, you're the idiot, idiot!
Damn, no wonder you're mad :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
I don't think milmascaras is an idiot. He is extreme, but amongst the bombast I do see some valid points being made.
I think Manny is in his prime at the higher weights as he isn't needing to boil down so much. We saw in the second Barrera fight how lethargic he looked, but that fight was also down to Barrera being unwilling to engage. We also saw Morales outbox him first time out and IMO Marquez had his number twice.
Pac has been far more impressive at the higher weights, but there is a degree of smoke and mirrors involved and some people have been getting high on the fumes. Manny is impressive for sure, but there are still question marks. Why not go after Mosley 2 years ago instead of Clottey, Cotto and then Margarito? Instead each of the previous opponents was coming off of a loss and in the cases of the later two, they were devastating losses. Where are the unbeaten fighters in their prime? There simply aren't any. They have been picking very carefully.
julius rain,
wow, talking about how low a person can get. listen, the only reason why you're writing this crap is because you don't have to face me, you piece of shit! we can talk about other fighters but when people start saying crazy things about families, that to me draws the line. but of course, you're going to get a pass from the mods as always because there is a huge double standard tradition on this site.
if you're in bed with anything pacquiao, you can say anything you want without fear of getting reprimanded on this site.
That's not even funny. In fact, that kind of behaviour is downright wrong. Grow up. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainDamn, no wonder you're mad :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Yes, he is an idiot. If 25+ Saddo members calls anyone an idiot, that will automatically make him or her a certified idiot. FACTQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
I actually agree that p4p Pac is better than oscar in his prime but here is where it gets strange for me. I think Pac is at his peak now and he is at welterweight BUT I don't think he beats a prime ODLH. Pac is a very small Welter who could easily make 135 whereas Oscar matured into a big Welter but he had great speed in that division, great skills and one of the best chins ever too, I just think Oscar might be too much for Pac in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYou don't think Manny is better than a prime Oscar?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Manny is one of the best boxers of all time, already probably top 10, if he beat Floyd he would be top 5.
Yes he is better than a prime Oscar. Oscar lost every significant he ever fought, Trinidad, Mosley, Hopkins, Mayweather.
Manny beat everybody, how do they even compare?
Look at his resume
Morales
Barrera
Marquez
Hatton
De La Hoya
Cotto
All of them may yet make the Hall of Fame.
I think Pac avoids the 135 division because of JMM, I think he just has issues with a true counter puncher that can negate his speed like Marquez does and I don't think he wants anymore of that whilst he can fight these much bigger men and relatively easily beat them. These are the same reasons I think PBF comfortably beats Pac.
I'm one of the few who still thinks he's reaching his prime at this point.
Many believe he's already reached it, others say he's peaked.
I think Pac will be one of those few rare fighters who retires with wins and not a several loses. Possibly even as a champ...
Like Carbajal, Monzon and Jofre (with wins)
Yeah that lame gimmick got old a long time ago. Unfortunately for the poor kid it's all he has.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThat's not even funny. In fact, that kind of behaviour is downright wrong. Grow up. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainDamn, no wonder you're mad :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I think now is Pac's PHYSICAL prime its only a matter of maintaining it. it could be all downhill from the Marg fight.
TECHNICALLY I think he's at 90%. Margarito should have not cause some damage.
He should learn to avoid unnecessary damages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
and yet when i searched your posts almost 90% is about pac! you hate pac and pacfans so much that it consumes you! lol
if you hate every topic that has pac in it then dont open the threads. simple enough right?
I think it's the opposite.. technicality wise, he fights smarter than he ever has.... I just don't think physically he is what he was 4 to 5 years ago, and that made him take more from Margarito than he could have..Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_langQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I think now is Pac's PHYSICAL prime its only a matter of maintaining it. it could be all downhill from the Marg fight.
TECHNICALLY I think he's at 90%. Margarito should have not cause some damage.
He should learn to avoid unnecessary damages.
He has carried the weight up incredibly well though, so he can physically overpower BIG welterweights like Margarito and Cotto...
I think if "prime" encompasses everything like intelligence, physical attribute, mental will, skill etc.... Then right now as Mick said, he is absolutely prime and could look better in every fight he's in...
That's another nice way of looking at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizaster
But i think PHYSICALLY the strength, stamina, speed, power etc are already at their PEAK. No way he could be faster, stronger, etc from this point.
Saying he is TECHNICALLY at his peak means there are no more additional skills he can acquire which i think is not the case because IMO Pac can still add up to his arsenal.
thanks to the guys who got this thread back on track. These fxckin nuisance keep talking shit about one fighter that they hate so much but can't prevent themselves from not clicking on the tread. Damn Losers.
Anyways - I think pac has definitely improve above lightweight. He is smarter - for example: When cotto would go into a southpaw stance, first thing pac does it he throws a right hook that lands right on target. You can see that he is reading what is in front of him and will adjust and sometimes would change up his attack. Physically and technically I think pac has improve above lightweight. I do think he is at his prime right now in the welterweight division.
what double standard you talking about? i know quite a few members here who post like you banned within a week. the only difference is they were overzealous pac fans. if anything the mods here imo are quite tolerative of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
Kkisser,
hey peep-squeak, nobody's talking to you! go back and suck on your mama's titty and shut up!
above lightweight, better use of the right hand and better footwork.