JMM: I'll fight him at any weight he wants, not a problem since he was 148

Marquez Rips Manny Pacquiao For Choosing Shane Mosley - Boxing News

JMM is saying weight won't be a problem because Pac weighed 148 against Margarito on fight night, whereas he weighed 145 against Katsidis on fight night. He says he has the skillset to beat Pac while Margarito was bigger and stronger he doesn't have the skills to beat Pac. JMM also says that Pac is making excuses that the public doesn't want to see it but who would want to see a washed up fighter that lost and drew in his last 2 fights or a fighter that beat Pac twice, although the record doesn't show it as JMM said.

To be fair if he can't get Mayweather i'd love to see this again.

They should get it on and put this question to rest - once and for all. Make it a 15 rounder!

Yeah Pac is awesome but he needs to stop this shit, that'll be like the 5th opponent of his coming off or only one fight removed from their poorest showing...fight pbf and if that can't be made do it again with jmm for a 3rd time or face a prime welter. Hell I'm not big on berto at all but f it he's young and undefeated, better than facing a past his prime mosley coming of 2 subpar performances.

Before someone mentions that jmm would only be 2 fights removed from his poorest showing, well that was against a bigger skilled man, and at least in between he's faced two top ten lightweights and dominated them.

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Originally Posted by armin

Before someone mentions that jmm would only be 2 fights removed from his poorest showing, well that was against a bigger skilled man, and at least in between he's faced two top ten lightweights and dominated them.

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Well wasn't Cotto 2 fights removed from his loss? But that excuse was still used not to mentioned the weight. So if he fights JMM a 3rd time that excuse will be used if they get it on, not to mentioned it will be said that Pac is fighting Floyd's leftovers and with weight issues, because the fight with JMM will take place above 135 for sure.

The best opponent out there is the winner of Bradley/Alexander who will be a solid top 10 p4p fighter and also undefeated. No one can really say anything about that, but of course if the fight takes place above 140, the people will say Pacquiao beat up a smaller man if he were to win.

JMM is right, it wont matter which division him and pac fight at because they are still about the same size. If it were to be at 147 - both will weigh below that during weigh in and both will be just a few pounds over that if not below that.

However if pac beats JMM outside lightweight the excuse would be - JMM is too small for welterweights :rolleyes:

This is interesting because people are saying Pac and Floyd are about the same size - yet when Floyd dominated JMM the excuse was the same - Floyd is too big and JMM doesn't belong above lightweight :rolleyes:

If JMM and Pac are about the same size and Pac and Floyd are about the same size. Doesn't that mean Floyd and JMM are about the same size too? :confused:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Sugar Shane is finished because of his performance against Floyd, then how does Marquez escape that criticism?

Mosley at least hurt Floyd. Marquez lost 120-108 on all scorecards :confused:

For the record I believe Marquez loses to Mosley.

I think most of us conclude that mosley is finished not just due to the pbf outing but also the mora outing...granted he's looked less than spectacular above welterweight before but he is 38 or something like that these days coming of 2 bad showings. Fight pbs, if that can't be made berto or bradley, or jmm. Not mosley, or cotto yet again.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by armin

Before someone mentions that jmm would only be 2 fights removed from his poorest showing, well that was against a bigger skilled man, and at least in between he's faced two top ten lightweights and dominated them.

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Well wasn't Cotto 2 fights removed from his loss? But that excuse was still used not to mentioned the weight. So if he fights JMM a 3rd time that excuse will be used if they get it on, not to mentioned it will be said that Pac is fighting Floyd's leftovers and with weight issues, because the fight with JMM will take place above 135 for sure.

The best opponent out there is the winner of Bradley/Alexander who will be a solid top 10 p4p fighter and also undefeated. No one can really say anything about that, but of course if the fight takes place above 140, the people will say Pacquiao beat up a smaller man if he were to win.

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That's true cotto was 2 fights removed from his loss to marg, but one was against jennings, and the other against clottey. Jennings he was expected to win and against clottey he was lucky to win cause clottey decided to be clottey and not do jack shit, he looked far from spectacular. Where as jmm in his 2 fights after pbf has dominated 2 top ten lightweights . I'm not saying jmm pac 3 would be as good as the first 2 tho I think it could be, I'm just saying fighting jmm would be a lot better than fighting mosley.

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

I think Mosely and JMM needs to bid. Ya know, like an auction (i.e. 50/50pac, 40/60, 30/70 and so on). Lowest bidder get to fight Pac. ;D

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Originally Posted by miles

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

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Manny and Marquez are the same size and both left the superfeatherweight division together. All that has happened is that Manny has been far more successful. If Marquez wants him he has to go to where he now is. You may be consistent, but you are consistently wrong ;D

Why would Manny give up his belts and go backwards to face a guy he already got the win against last time out?

You just don't seem to be in touch with the reality of the situation. Marquez is not a big draw. Manny beat him last time out and Manny is fighting at least two weight classes above him now. He has moved on.

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Originally Posted by miles

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

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Actually there were some on his case, mainly Floyd's critics and haters. Not everyone. If the fight had taken place at 130 or 135 years ago, Floyd would dominate JMM even worse, considering he was even more offensive minded then and much faster. And considering that Floyd usually rehydrates 2 or 3 pounds at the most so it's not like he had a huge size advantage over JMM, it was the skills, speed, and reflexes that were the difference.

You're on about this fight being fair to JMM and the 3rd match should happen. But yet I posted that JMM turned down a '05 rematch against Pac for 750k years ago to fight 2 bums and Chris John for 30k. How do you explain that? If JMM had taken the fight the 3rd match would have happened in '08 or something like that. Or how about he asked for a 50/50 money split in January of this year when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team? The fight more than likely would have been at 140 also since Pac was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. Talk about not taking the opportunities not presented to you. So who's fault was that? Who priced themselves out? Now JMM wants a 3rd match when he passed on the opportunities to fight Pac on a few occasions.

The moral of the story? Take opportunities in life that are presented to you. Don't turn them down and then chase down those opportunities that passed you by.

BTW, I don't think there will be a 3rd match with JMM. Floyd, Berto, Mosley, and the winner of Bradley/Alexander are on the horizon.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

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Manny and Marquez are the same size and both left the superfeatherweight division together. All that has happened is that Manny has been far more successful. If Marquez wants him he has to go to where he now is. You may be consistent, but you are consistently wrong ;D

Why would Manny give up his belts and go backwards to face a guy he already got the win against last time out?

You just don't seem to be in touch with the reality of the situation. Marquez is not a big draw. Manny beat him last time out and Manny is fighting at least two weight classes above him now. He has moved on.

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No, what happened was that Marquez went up to LW and cleaned out the entire division and fought the best fighters. He has one attempt at WW against Mayweather and Mayweather was just too big for him. Since then he has gone back down to LW. Meanwhile, Pac cherrypicked Diaz and then made his assault on JWW and WW and yes, he has been very impressive. However, Marquez has been impressive too, but what Manny has been doing is no doubt more spectacular.

How am I wrong? It is a fact that I was amongst a large group of Mayweather critics who were not impressed with him choosing to come back against Marquez. The fight went exactly as we all thought. Mayweather was just too big for Marquez to do anything against. Marquez has been fighting at LW whereas Manny has been fighting at WW. Manny is younger and is somehow able to carry his speed and power up through multiple weight divisions. Nobody else has been able to it in such a fashion before. Marquez is the much more typical example of a smaller fighter that tries to force his way through the weights. He gets flabby and he loses speed. This hasn't happened with Manny and it is out of the ordinary. They are not of a similar size anymore. Marquez carries the weight through intensive rehydration, Manny carries it through pure muscle. They were of a similar size, but they are not any longer. Manny is a WW and Marquez a LW. If they would agree to meet at JWW, then that is the perfect compromise. As things stand, it is the same as Mayweather fighting Marquez at WW. However, Mayweather was attacked and Pacquiao is being given a free pass.

You say why would Manny agree to go down in weight and give up his belts. Well, you have already said that belts are meaningless and I agree. It is also a fact that most writers and fans think that Marquez deserved the nod in the last fight. So really, Pac is a draw and a loss down to Marquez, despite what the record books say. Why is Marquez even in consideration for the fight? Because Pac knows that Marquez is the bogeyman on his record and the best way to dispose of him is to puff him up and try and blow him away. It doesn't hurt that he has no WW pedigree and is old in boxing terms. Marquez deserves respect and sure, Manny could fight a Mosley coming off of a loss and a draw, but what's the point. We've already been spoonfed a cheating Margarito who had no place in a big fight. Why do we now get a fighter who hasn't won in 3 years and is nearly 40? It's a joke. At least reduce the 7000 calorie diet, lose a couple of pounds and give the fans a real fight against the guy who has arguably beaten him twice already. There could be no bigger statement from Manny to dispose of Marquez without handicapping him first. To place the handicap just erases any sense of validity that the fight might have had.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by miles

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

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Actually there were some on his case, mainly Floyd's critics and haters. Not everyone. If the fight had taken place at 130 or 135 years ago, Floyd would dominate JMM even worse, considering he was even more offensive minded then and much faster. And considering that Floyd usually rehydrates 2 or 3 pounds at the most so it's not like he had a huge size advantage over JMM, it was the skills, speed, and reflexes that were the difference.

You're on about this fight being fair to JMM and the 3rd match should happen. But yet I posted that JMM turned down a '05 rematch against Pac for 750k years ago to fight 2 bums and Chris John for 30k. How do you explain that? If JMM had taken the fight the 3rd match would have happened in '08 or something like that. Or how about he asked for a 50/50 money split in January of this year when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team? The fight more than likely would have been at 140 also since Pac was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. Talk about not taking the opportunities not presented to you. So who's fault was that? Who priced themselves out? Now JMM wants a 3rd match when he passed on the opportunities to fight Pac on a few occasions.

The moral of the story? Take opportunities in life that are presented to you. Don't turn them down and then chase down those opportunities that passed you by.

BTW, I don't think there will be a 3rd match with JMM. Floyd, Berto, Mosley, and the winner of Bradley/Alexander are on the horizon.

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It doesn't matter what might have been between Mayweather and Marquez at LW. What matters is that Mayweather signed to fight a LW when he could have fought anyoone at WW. It was a hoax of a fight from the start and I give Mayweather little credit for it. The same as if Manny were to fight Marquez at 147.

Yes, there have been mistakes from the management of Marquez. For sure, I won't deny that, but right here, right now, I do not want to see a Pac/Marquez fight at 147. I would sooner have them look elsewhere for a fight. Marquez should not compromise on everything and if that means we don't see the fight then so be it.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by miles

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

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Actually there were some on his case, mainly Floyd's critics and haters. Not everyone. If the fight had taken place at 130 or 135 years ago, Floyd would dominate JMM even worse, considering he was even more offensive minded then and much faster. And considering that Floyd usually rehydrates 2 or 3 pounds at the most so it's not like he had a huge size advantage over JMM, it was the skills, speed, and reflexes that were the difference.

You're on about this fight being fair to JMM and the 3rd match should happen. But yet I posted that JMM turned down a '05 rematch against Pac for 750k years ago to fight 2 bums and Chris John for 30k. How do you explain that? If JMM had taken the fight the 3rd match would have happened in '08 or something like that. Or how about he asked for a 50/50 money split in January of this year when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team? The fight more than likely would have been at 140 also since Pac was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. Talk about not taking the opportunities not presented to you. So who's fault was that? Who priced themselves out? Now JMM wants a 3rd match when he passed on the opportunities to fight Pac on a few occasions.

The moral of the story? Take opportunities in life that are presented to you. Don't turn them down and then chase down those opportunities that passed you by.

BTW, I don't think there will be a 3rd match with JMM. Floyd, Berto, Mosley, and the winner of Bradley/Alexander are on the horizon.

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It doesn't matter what might have been between Mayweather and Marquez at LW. What matters is that Mayweather signed to fight a LW when he could have fought anyoone at WW. It was a hoax of a fight from the start and I give Mayweather little credit for it. The same as if Manny were to fight Marquez at 147.

Yes, there have been mistakes from the management of Marquez. For sure, I won't deny that, but right here, right now, I do not want to see a Pac/Marquez fight at 147. I would sooner have them look elsewhere for a fight. Marquez should not compromise on everything and if that means we don't see the fight then so be it.

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Floyd dominated the no. 2 fighter in the sport at the time of his almost 2 year layoff. Again it's not like Floyd had a huge size advantage, it was the skills more than anything else. Floyd is a tiny Welterweight, more than likely could make the 140 pound limit. Again Floyd only rehydrates at the most 1-3 pounds on fight night. So it wasn't the size but skills that defeated JMM.

It is JMM that wants to fight for a 3rd time badly with Pac not the other way around. If he wants it, he's going to need to accept the demands. JMM wants the money, status, and biggest fights then he's going to need to take some huge risks for that. Just like Manny took some huge ones against Oscar in jumping another extra 2 weight classes after going from 130 to 135 and accepting only 32% of the overall money, not to mentioned ring size and glove size Oscar wanted. Floyd got his status as the PPV king of the sport right now and 1/2 the face of boxing by meeting all of Oscar's demands to fight him. It paid off.

Again I thought something else is funny, if JMM beat Pac twice as JMM and his supporters claim with all those writers and fans agreeing, then there is no need for a 3rd fight right? It's already decided, JMM has that. So why does he want a 3rd fight so badly then? You want to tell me Miles?

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

I think Mosely and JMM needs to bid. Ya know, like an auction (i.e. 50/50pac, 40/60, 30/70 and so on). Lowest bidder get to fight Pac. ;D

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Yea what about Berto? He could come in there at 80/20.

Pac would win inside 5.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

I think Mosely and JMM needs to bid. Ya know, like an auction (i.e. 50/50pac, 40/60, 30/70 and so on). Lowest bidder get to fight Pac. ;D

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Yea what about Berto? He could come in there at 80/20.

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It's possible.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Sugar Shane is finished because of his performance against Floyd, then how does Marquez escape that criticism?

Mosley at least hurt Floyd. Marquez lost 120-108 on all scorecards :confused:

For the record I believe Marquez loses to Mosley.

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I assume the argument would go that while Marquez lost to Mayweather, was way out of his weightclass and he rebounded with some impressive performances over decent, though not great, opposition. Mosley looked awful against Sergio Mora and appears to be seriously on the slide.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Sugar Shane is finished because of his performance against Floyd, then how does Marquez escape that criticism?

Mosley at least hurt Floyd. Marquez lost 120-108 on all scorecards :confused:

For the record I believe Marquez loses to Mosley.

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I assume the argument would go that while Marquez lost to Mayweather, was way out of his weightclass and he rebounded with some impressive performances over decent, though not great opposition. Mosley looked awful against Sergio Mora and appears to be seriously on the slide.

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I agree. However, JMM said it would not matter where he fights pac welterweight or lightweight. Clearly it did matter against Floyd. Maybe he does not believe Pac and Floyd are the same size.

Boxing as a whole needs to stop waiting around on Mayweather and get on with fighters who actually want to fight. Don't think Jmm belongs anywhere above 140 but the history cannot be denied and I'd pay to see it. Marquez has rebounded after that Imo charade vs an at least jr middle Floyd with solid wins and Manny needs a dance partner. Two words.... Thunder-dome!

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Originally Posted by bcollins

They should get it on and put this question to rest - once and for all. Make it a 15 rounder!

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I love that idea... :D

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Sugar Shane is finished because of his performance against Floyd, then how does Marquez escape that criticism?

Mosley at least hurt Floyd. Marquez lost 120-108 on all scorecards :confused:

For the record I believe Marquez loses to Mosley.

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I speak for myself when I say that for me "Your only as good as your last performance".
Yes JMM lost every round to PBF.
Yes SSM rocked and won 2 rds. vs. PBF.
Yes SSM did better vs. PBF.

However since then JMM immediately bounced back and put on 2 good to brilliant performances.
SSM on the other hand? ???

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Sugar Shane is finished because of his performance against Floyd, then how does Marquez escape that criticism?

Mosley at least hurt Floyd. Marquez lost 120-108 on all scorecards :confused:

For the record I believe Marquez loses to Mosley.

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I assume the argument would go that while Marquez lost to Mayweather, was way out of his weightclass and he rebounded with some impressive performances over decent, though not great opposition. Mosley looked awful against Sergio Mora and appears to be seriously on the slide.

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I agree. However, JMM said it would not matter where he fights pac welterweight or lightweight. Clearly it did matter against Floyd. Maybe he does not believe Pac and Floyd are the same size.

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IMO, I feel that JMM is saying whatever it takes to get Pac to sign the deal and he'll worry about the rest later.
He just want's Pac in the ring.
I personally think it's stupid of JMM to think he can beat Pac at 147.
Not because of the PBF fight. But because clearly that's not a weight that suits him.
It would be who of JMM to have the fight be at 140 or 135.
But I'm certain Pac realizes that it's in his (Pacs) best interest to make JMM give up whatever he can as it is for any fighter prior to the fight.
Whether it's gloves, ring size whatever it maybe. In this case weight.
I think 147 better suits Pac. But we will never really know unless it happens.

CFH, I completely agree with you and view it the same way...

Ok.

For those who are talking/mentioning this ordeal about JMM's performance vs. PBF let me shine some light on this...

Pac moves up to 154 and faces Sergio.
Sergio dominates him in the same fashion PBF dominated JMM.
Does that mean Pac is finished?

Go ahead I'll give you time to think it over.

In the mean time...

JMM did not receive the "He's finished criticism" after the PBF fight because it was clear he was fighting out of his class. Or who know's maybe that's how great PBF really is that the 2nd/3rd P4P fighter in the world couldn't even touch him. Maybe his greatness is that much more then the rest.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Ok.

For those who are talking/mentioning this ordeal about JMM's performance vs. PBF let me shine some light on this...

Pac moves up to 154 and faces Sergio.
Sergio dominates him in the same fashion PBF dominated JMM.
Does that mean Pac is finished?

Go ahead I'll give you time to think it over.

In the mean time...

JMM did not receive the "He's finished criticism" after the PBF fight because it was clear he was fighting out of his class. Or who know's maybe that's how great PBF really is that the 2nd/3rd P4P fighter in the world couldn't even touch him. Maybe his greatness is that much more then the rest.

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That is what I've been trying to figure out.

A. Floyd is so good JMM couldn't win a single round.

B. JMM look like shit due to the weight.

A or B? We will never know unless JMM fights again above 135. If he fights pac above 135 and he gets dominated, there wont be much credit to give to pac for the win cause JMM has not proven himself above 135.

I would love a third match but it looks like pac would need to cut down to 135 to get credit in a victory over JMM. JMM does not have any success above 135. However if JMM beats Pac above 135, IMO he and Floyd are greater fighters then Pac.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Ok.

For those who are talking/mentioning this ordeal about JMM's performance vs. PBF let me shine some light on this...

Pac moves up to 154 and faces Sergio.
Sergio dominates him in the same fashion PBF dominated JMM.
Does that mean Pac is finished?

Go ahead I'll give you time to think it over.

In the mean time...

JMM did not receive the "He's finished criticism" after the PBF fight because it was clear he was fighting out of his class. Or who know's maybe that's how great PBF really is that the 2nd/3rd P4P fighter in the world couldn't even touch him. Maybe his greatness is that much more then the rest.

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That is what I've been trying to figure out.

A. Floyd is so good JMM couldn't win a single round.

B. JMM look like shit due to the weight.

A or B? We will never know unless JMM fights again above 135. If he fights pac above 135 and he gets dominated, there wont be much credit to give to pac for the win cause JMM has not proven himself above 135.

I would love a third match but it looks like pac would need to cut down to 135 to get credit in a victory over JMM. JMM does not have any success above 135. However if JMM beats Pac above 135, IMO he and Floyd are greater fighters then Pac.

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I think that 140 or 135 is perfect for both...
Neither one has an advantage.

But that's not how the game is played.
It's about getting the upper hand.
Whatever the case Pac get's credit for a win in my eyes.
A bit questionable at 147 but nonetheless a win.

The only people that wont credit him are trolls and let's be honest their opinions don't count.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Sugar Shane is finished because of his performance against Floyd, then how does Marquez escape that criticism?

Mosley at least hurt Floyd. Marquez lost 120-108 on all scorecards :confused:

For the record I believe Marquez loses to Mosley.

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I assume the argument would go that while Marquez lost to Mayweather, was way out of his weightclass and he rebounded with some impressive performances over decent, though not great opposition. Mosley looked awful against Sergio Mora and appears to be seriously on the slide.

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I agree. However, JMM said it would not matter where he fights pac welterweight or lightweight. Clearly it did matter against Floyd. Maybe he does not believe Pac and Floyd are the same size.

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But it's obvious that JMM and Pacquiao are closer in size than JMM and PBF, regardless of what weight Pacquiao is current campaigning at.

I cant believe everyone is saying "Shane did better against mayweather obviously hed be better against pac" or indicating that JMM looked bad against Mayweather at a higher weight so obvisouly the weight was the issue.

Has anyone here ever thought that maybe...and only just maybe Floyd is a completely different fighter with a completely different style to pac? Styles make fights and we all know JMM has awesome boxing ability and he got outboxed by a better boxer in mayweather. Pac is a good boxer but his ability is more in brawling, he outslugs sluggers because he is quick and has better movement then the straight forward brawler. Now JMM has great timing (as seen vs katsidis where he was able time kats between punches and land combos as kats was trying to load up) and we all know what is required to compete with speed....timing. JMM had the timing to compete with mayweather but not the boxing ability as floyds defence is just waaaay too good. Where as pac leaves himself open which allows JMM to capitalise on openings when pac does those flurries. So far no one has been able to capitalise on that as they arent that sort of boxer.

Mosley these days considers himself a power puncher and just looks to unload the right hand. He only really had two good rounds against mayweather and this is because mosley was fighting a one dimensional fight, instead of being the boxer puncher he was being the puncher and every puncher that has faced floyd ends up being schooled. Pac has destroyed guys who just want to stand and trade (mosley in a nutshell these days) and we all know mosley doesnt have the stamina to trade all night so that would end up in a one sided beat down with either a late tko or lopside decision for pac. I disagree with everyone who says pac is a different animal at higher weight classes, to me he hasnt changed. He has always eaten brawlers alive for the fact he is way quicker and thats all he has done so far. Who was the last actual boxer he fought? You cant call Cotto a boxer, he was always more of a brawler. Pac has not fought a guy with the boxing skill of JMM since moving up, this fight would still be close no matter what weight division especially since JMM has the experience of fighting pac before where as these other poor souls have been just been shell shocked in the first round and not knowing what to expect.


Well thats my opinion anyway.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by miles

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

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Actually there were some on his case, mainly Floyd's critics and haters. Not everyone. If the fight had taken place at 130 or 135 years ago, Floyd would dominate JMM even worse, considering he was even more offensive minded then and much faster. And considering that Floyd usually rehydrates 2 or 3 pounds at the most so it's not like he had a huge size advantage over JMM, it was the skills, speed, and reflexes that were the difference.

You're on about this fight being fair to JMM and the 3rd match should happen. But yet I posted that JMM turned down a '05 rematch against Pac for 750k years ago to fight 2 bums and Chris John for 30k. How do you explain that? If JMM had taken the fight the 3rd match would have happened in '08 or something like that. Or how about he asked for a 50/50 money split in January of this year when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team? The fight more than likely would have been at 140 also since Pac was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. Talk about not taking the opportunities not presented to you. So who's fault was that? Who priced themselves out? Now JMM wants a 3rd match when he passed on the opportunities to fight Pac on a few occasions.

The moral of the story? Take opportunities in life that are presented to you. Don't turn them down and then chase down those opportunities that passed you by.

BTW, I don't think there will be a 3rd match with JMM. Floyd, Berto, Mosley, and the winner of Bradley/Alexander are on the horizon.

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It doesn't matter what might have been between Mayweather and Marquez at LW. What matters is that Mayweather signed to fight a LW when he could have fought anyoone at WW. It was a hoax of a fight from the start and I give Mayweather little credit for it. The same as if Manny were to fight Marquez at 147.

Yes, there have been mistakes from the management of Marquez. For sure, I won't deny that, but right here, right now, I do not want to see a Pac/Marquez fight at 147. I would sooner have them look elsewhere for a fight. Marquez should not compromise on everything and if that means we don't see the fight then so be it.

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Floyd dominated the no. 2 fighter in the sport at the time of his almost 2 year layoff. Again it's not like Floyd had a huge size advantage, it was the skills more than anything else. Floyd is a tiny Welterweight, more than likely could make the 140 pound limit. Again Floyd only rehydrates at the most 1-3 pounds on fight night. So it wasn't the size but skills that defeated JMM.

It is JMM that wants to fight for a 3rd time badly with Pac not the other way around. If he wants it, he's going to need to accept the demands. JMM wants the money, status, and biggest fights then he's going to need to take some huge risks for that. Just like Manny took some huge ones against Oscar in jumping another extra 2 weight classes after going from 130 to 135 and accepting only 32% of the overall money, not to mentioned ring size and glove size Oscar wanted. Floyd got his status as the PPV king of the sport right now and 1/2 the face of boxing by meeting all of Oscar's demands to fight him. It paid off.

Again I thought something else is funny, if JMM beat Pac twice as JMM and his supporters claim with all those writers and fans agreeing, then there is no need for a 3rd fight right? It's already decided, JMM has that. So why does he want a 3rd fight so badly then? You want to tell me Miles?

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Come on now, Floyd is a large WW these days. He couldn't even make the catchweight to fight Matquez and looked absolutely huge next to him. No way did he put on just 2-3 pounds that night. Mayweather is in his mid-30's and has grown into the weight properly.

Why does Marquez want the fight so badly? I would imagine it has a lot to do with pride and Marquez being annoyed that the judges wouldn't see it the way the majority of the people scoring the fight saw it. He wants that win in the history books because what he has is not satisfactory and will be glossed over in the future.

Unfortunately it appears he is going to give up everything at the bargaining table to get it.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by miles

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

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Actually there were some on his case, mainly Floyd's critics and haters. Not everyone. If the fight had taken place at 130 or 135 years ago, Floyd would dominate JMM even worse, considering he was even more offensive minded then and much faster. And considering that Floyd usually rehydrates 2 or 3 pounds at the most so it's not like he had a huge size advantage over JMM, it was the skills, speed, and reflexes that were the difference.

You're on about this fight being fair to JMM and the 3rd match should happen. But yet I posted that JMM turned down a '05 rematch against Pac for 750k years ago to fight 2 bums and Chris John for 30k. How do you explain that? If JMM had taken the fight the 3rd match would have happened in '08 or something like that. Or how about he asked for a 50/50 money split in January of this year when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team? The fight more than likely would have been at 140 also since Pac was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. Talk about not taking the opportunities not presented to you. So who's fault was that? Who priced themselves out? Now JMM wants a 3rd match when he passed on the opportunities to fight Pac on a few occasions.

The moral of the story? Take opportunities in life that are presented to you. Don't turn them down and then chase down those opportunities that passed you by.

BTW, I don't think there will be a 3rd match with JMM. Floyd, Berto, Mosley, and the winner of Bradley/Alexander are on the horizon.

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It doesn't matter what might have been between Mayweather and Marquez at LW. What matters is that Mayweather signed to fight a LW when he could have fought anyoone at WW. It was a hoax of a fight from the start and I give Mayweather little credit for it. The same as if Manny were to fight Marquez at 147.

Yes, there have been mistakes from the management of Marquez. For sure, I won't deny that, but right here, right now, I do not want to see a Pac/Marquez fight at 147. I would sooner have them look elsewhere for a fight. Marquez should not compromise on everything and if that means we don't see the fight then so be it.

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Floyd dominated the no. 2 fighter in the sport at the time of his almost 2 year layoff. Again it's not like Floyd had a huge size advantage, it was the skills more than anything else. Floyd is a tiny Welterweight, more than likely could make the 140 pound limit. Again Floyd only rehydrates at the most 1-3 pounds on fight night. So it wasn't the size but skills that defeated JMM.

It is JMM that wants to fight for a 3rd time badly with Pac not the other way around. If he wants it, he's going to need to accept the demands. JMM wants the money, status, and biggest fights then he's going to need to take some huge risks for that. Just like Manny took some huge ones against Oscar in jumping another extra 2 weight classes after going from 130 to 135 and accepting only 32% of the overall money, not to mentioned ring size and glove size Oscar wanted. Floyd got his status as the PPV king of the sport right now and 1/2 the face of boxing by meeting all of Oscar's demands to fight him. It paid off.

Again I thought something else is funny, if JMM beat Pac twice as JMM and his supporters claim with all those writers and fans agreeing, then there is no need for a 3rd fight right? It's already decided, JMM has that. So why does he want a 3rd fight so badly then? You want to tell me Miles?

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Come on now, Floyd is a large WW these days. He couldn't even make the catchweight to fight Matquez and looked absolutely huge next to him. No way did he put on just 2-3 pounds that night. Mayweather is in his mid-30's and has grown into the weight properly.

Why does Marquez want the fight so badly? I would imagine it has a lot to do with pride and Marquez being annoyed that the judges wouldn't see it the way the majority of the people scoring the fight saw it. He wants that win in the history books because what he has is not satisfactory and will be glossed over in the future.

Unfortunately it appears he is going to give up everything at the bargaining table to get it.

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Cash money hosss... If he some how manages to get the fight with Manny he'll be able to pay people to drink his piss for once.

Yes, money is likely the other important factor. But how important is that to Marquez really? I know if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be too worried about needing to keep maxing out my income. It would be more about just wanting to do the best job that I can. I think someone like Marquez just loves to fight and that the win is the most important thing. The money is great and not to be sniffed at, but Mrquez is not exactly a poor man. He doesn't need to fight Pac or risk going broke. His money likely goes a long way in Mexico. Marquez wants that win.

I really think money is the ultimate motivating factor at this point. JMM is on the wrong side of 30 and realizes he needs to really cash in. In a sport where you can grow old overnight I think he realizes he didn't make too many savvy business decisions in the past (fighting chris john in indonesia)(even more surprising consdering he's good with numbers I think he was an econ major as well? from 24/7) I think he wants to secure his financial future.

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Originally Posted by Stale_hotdog

I really think money is the ultimate motivating factor at this point. JMM is on the wrong side of 30 and realizes he needs to really cash in. In a sport where you can grow old overnight I think he realizes he didn't make too many savvy business decisions in the past (fighting chris john in indonesia)(even more surprising consdering he's good with numbers I think he was an econ major as well? from 24/7) I think he wants to secure his financial future.

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The Chris John fight has never made any sense to me. Marquez always comes across as being very articulate and quite adroit, but some of those career decisions have been a bit unorthodox.

Yeah, maybe he is cashing out, but it's hard to tell if that is really Marquez's plan. If he is willing to give up all advantages to fight Manny then I think I will begin to see it that way though.

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Originally Posted by miles

Yes, money is likely the other important factor. But how important is that to Marquez really? I know if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be too worried about needing to keep maxing out my income. It would be more about just wanting to do the best job that I can. I think someone like Marquez just loves to fight and that the win is the most important thing. The money is great and not to be sniffed at, but Mrquez is not exactly a poor man. He doesn't need to fight Pac or risk going broke. His money likely goes a long way in Mexico. Marquez wants that win.

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lol, you are so naive miles it's unbelievable. All these years you've been intently following boxing, on this site at least, and yet you still don't get that MONEY is the ONLY thing that matters in boxing.

"Marquez just loves to fight" ... that is utter fantasy. If Marquez, like every other PRIZEfighter that ever lived, wasn't rewarded by large sums of dough you would have never seen him in a professional ring.

If the money is right fighters fight. If it's not they don't. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by miles

If Marquez really thinks he can go in there at 147 and get the job done then fair enough, but I think his heart is ruling over his head a bit. Marquez has been looking great at LW, but Pac has been looking great at WW. That's a big difference in power and muscle mass. Okay, they could be a similar weight on fight night, but with Pac it's all muscle, with Marquez it's more about rehydration unless he decides to bulk up too and that just isn't going to work for Marquez at his age.

I would love for Marquez to go up there and silence all the Pacheads, but I just cannot see it being a fair fight with a WW weigh in. It is the same as what Mayweather did to Marquez and we were all on his case. And now that Manny is doing it, you are all giving him a free pass and saying what's the problem? Total double standards. At least I am never less than consistent.

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Actually there were some on his case, mainly Floyd's critics and haters. Not everyone. If the fight had taken place at 130 or 135 years ago, Floyd would dominate JMM even worse, considering he was even more offensive minded then and much faster. And considering that Floyd usually rehydrates 2 or 3 pounds at the most so it's not like he had a huge size advantage over JMM, it was the skills, speed, and reflexes that were the difference.

You're on about this fight being fair to JMM and the 3rd match should happen. But yet I posted that JMM turned down a '05 rematch against Pac for 750k years ago to fight 2 bums and Chris John for 30k. How do you explain that? If JMM had taken the fight the 3rd match would have happened in '08 or something like that. Or how about he asked for a 50/50 money split in January of this year when the fight was proposed to him by Pac's team? The fight more than likely would have been at 140 also since Pac was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. Talk about not taking the opportunities not presented to you. So who's fault was that? Who priced themselves out? Now JMM wants a 3rd match when he passed on the opportunities to fight Pac on a few occasions.

The moral of the story? Take opportunities in life that are presented to you. Don't turn them down and then chase down those opportunities that passed you by.

BTW, I don't think there will be a 3rd match with JMM. Floyd, Berto, Mosley, and the winner of Bradley/Alexander are on the horizon.

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It doesn't matter what might have been between Mayweather and Marquez at LW. What matters is that Mayweather signed to fight a LW when he could have fought anyoone at WW. It was a hoax of a fight from the start and I give Mayweather little credit for it. The same as if Manny were to fight Marquez at 147.

Yes, there have been mistakes from the management of Marquez. For sure, I won't deny that, but right here, right now, I do not want to see a Pac/Marquez fight at 147. I would sooner have them look elsewhere for a fight. Marquez should not compromise on everything and if that means we don't see the fight then so be it.

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Floyd dominated the no. 2 fighter in the sport at the time of his almost 2 year layoff. Again it's not like Floyd had a huge size advantage, it was the skills more than anything else. Floyd is a tiny Welterweight, more than likely could make the 140 pound limit. Again Floyd only rehydrates at the most 1-3 pounds on fight night. So it wasn't the size but skills that defeated JMM.

It is JMM that wants to fight for a 3rd time badly with Pac not the other way around. If he wants it, he's going to need to accept the demands. JMM wants the money, status, and biggest fights then he's going to need to take some huge risks for that. Just like Manny took some huge ones against Oscar in jumping another extra 2 weight classes after going from 130 to 135 and accepting only 32% of the overall money, not to mentioned ring size and glove size Oscar wanted. Floyd got his status as the PPV king of the sport right now and 1/2 the face of boxing by meeting all of Oscar's demands to fight him. It paid off.

Again I thought something else is funny, if JMM beat Pac twice as JMM and his supporters claim with all those writers and fans agreeing, then there is no need for a 3rd fight right? It's already decided, JMM has that. So why does he want a 3rd fight so badly then? You want to tell me Miles?

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Come on now, Floyd is a large WW these days. He couldn't even make the catchweight to fight Matquez and looked absolutely huge next to him. No way did he put on just 2-3 pounds that night. Mayweather is in his mid-30's and has grown into the weight properly.

Why does Marquez want the fight so badly? I would imagine it has a lot to do with pride and Marquez being annoyed that the judges wouldn't see it the way the majority of the people scoring the fight saw it. He wants that win in the history books because what he has is not satisfactory and will be glossed over in the future.

Unfortunately it appears he is going to give up everything at the bargaining table to get it.

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Floyd even at this stage is no large welterweight. I think it said in last year's issue of Ring Magazine that Floyd was around 148 or 149 on fight night, the same size as Pac now on fight night. And no one would consider Pac a large welterweight. It's generally known that Floyd rehydrates 1-3 pounds the most on fight night. You know what's a large welterweight? Guys like Clottey, Cotto, Margarito that are 160 on fight night. Now those are large welters. So Floyd dominated the no. 2 p4p fighter and at most he was 4 pounds heavier. Is that a huge disparity in weight? No it's not.

And like you said, if JMM, fans, and sportswriters believe he won those fights against Pac then that's all that matters right? Regardless of what the record books said. Just like all fans and sportswriters believe Lennox Lewis beat Holyfield in the 1st match or Whitaker beat Chavez, even though the official record says "draw" but the fans and sport writers know. So what are you, JMM, and his backers wanting a 3rd match with Pac and that it should happen at 135 or 140? I mean if JMM had 2 clear cut dominant victories over Pac as seen by the general public, fans, and sportswriters why need a 3rd fight?

That's like the equivalent of George Foreman and his fans asking for a 3rd fight with Joe Frazier back in the day or Ali and his fans asking for a 3rd match with Sonny Liston back then or Marvin Hagler and his fans asking for a 3rd match with Mustafa Hamsho.

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Originally Posted by bcollins

They should get it on and put this question to rest - once and for all. Make it a 15 rounder!

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I'd love to see 15 rounders return to championship boxing. IMO that really showed the men from the boys!

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Originally Posted by miles

Yes, money is likely the other important factor. But how important is that to Marquez really? I know if I was a millionaire I wouldn't be too worried about needing to keep maxing out my income. It would be more about just wanting to do the best job that I can. I think someone like Marquez just loves to fight and that the win is the most important thing. The money is great and not to be sniffed at, but Mrquez is not exactly a poor man. He doesn't need to fight Pac or risk going broke. His money likely goes a long way in Mexico. Marquez wants that win.

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If money isn't that important to JMM, then why did he overpriced himself at 50/50 when he was offered to fight Pacquiao early this year?

If he loves to fight and winning is the most important thing, then why do I not see him clamor to have a fight with Chris John when that is a blemish in his record? Doesn't he want to prove that he is better than that relatively unknown boxer?

Why did he go up two weight divisions in untested territory to fight Mayweather, the second best (some will say best) fighter in the world?

It all boils down to MONEY!!! But I don't blame him on that. If they are putting themselves at risk in this sport, might as well get the highest available reward that they can get and that includes financial.

why should marquez fight chris john again? john won't travel to the U.S. for such a big fight against marquez! besides, like i've said, in asia, you've got to KO your opponent then you'll only get a draw. corrupt bastards over there!

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

why should marquez fight chris john again? john won't travel to the U.S. for such a big fight against marquez! besides, like i've said, in asia, you've got to KO your opponent then you'll only get a draw. corrupt bastards over there!

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Did JMM even asked Chris John to fight in the US? Chris John fought Rocky Juarez in the US twice so that excuse is now lame.