Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?

I can't seem to understand how Marquez would be a greater threat to Manny than Shane at 147. I think Shane would beat the crap out of JMM at welterweight. I know styles make fights, but Shane has the tools to make Manny have a hard fight.

The guys that have troubled Shane are pure boxers, he relies on speed too much, and he doesn't jab or land particulalry well on elusive targets, in fact his output and accuracy drop dramatically on good defensive fighters who tie him up on the inside, but Manny isn't that type of fighter. Shane might not be quite as fast as Manny, but he is faster than anyone Manny has faced, he hits harder than anyone Manny has faced, and Manny isn't a defensive fighter. Sure I would pick Manny to win, but Mosley's style actually presents a lot of problems for Manny.

1. Body punching: Besides Cotto who didn't really go to the body against Manny, I haven't seen a more impressive body puncher fight Manny, even the three mexican greats. This is a guy who can hurt true 154 pounders to the body.

2. Speed: Mosley still has tremendous speed, I think it didn't show against a guy like Mayweather because he doesn't let you get into rhythm. Manny besides using his offense doesn't really stop you from throwing punches, he kind of plays a game where you throw punches then he responds with a deadly combination, but he usually has had a substantial speed advantage which he wouldn't have against Shane, and unlike anyone Manny has ever faced at an elite level, Shane also has pretty quick in and out movement despite his age.

3. Power: Shane knocked Margarito out, he's consistently stopped 154 pounders, he doesn't hit opponents with every shot as hard as Cotto does, but he has the type of power where he can land a game changing shot at any moment. He has a lot more power than Margarito when he lands solidly, and like I said he uses that power to the body.

4. tit-for-tat: Morales and Marquez played this game with Manny pretty well, while they could keep up, but most of Pacquiao's opponents haven't been able to make Manny pay immediately after he has thrown a punch or combination, Mosley has a great chin, and like the great mexicans Manny has fought, he has an incredible ability to take a shot and throw one at you as if he hasn't been hit at all. We saw Margarito do this a few times against Pacquiao, but he was just too slow most of the time to really get anything off, and his footspeed was so slow he couldn't get away from Pacquiao's combinations which meant Manny was just teeing off on him, we haven't seen somebody have the footspeed to deter that since Marquez, and like I said Mosley is a lot faster than JMM.

All-in-all I never felt Mosley had the style to compete with Floyd, but I've always felt his style would make an exciting fight against Manny, I know his last two fights were tough, but I think people should really be excited if he gets the fight with Manny. I don't think Berto has the chin, and I think, though Marquez-Pacquiao would be exciting, we've already seen that fight.

It could depend on the weight.

JMM may not be as great above 135. However Pac may not be as great below 140. As for Shane I think he does beat JMM at 147 but that could be because of how poor JMM is above 135.

JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Julius Rain

It could depend on the weight.

JMM may not be as great above 135. However Pac may not be as great below 140. As for Shane I think he does beat JMM at 147 but that could be because of how poor JMM is above 135.

JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?

---

Also both are 37-38 years old but JMM has looked better in his last fight. But again it could depend on the weight/division.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Julius Rain

It could depend on the weight.

JMM may not be as great above 135. However Pac may not be as great below 140. As for Shane I think he does beat JMM at 147 but that could be because of how poor JMM is above 135.

JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?

---

Do we know how good JMM is above 135? He could very well be nearly as successful as Pacquiao if he moved up to 140 and 147, I don't think he could ever match Manny's power and speed, but he is almost as effective offensively IMO.

I don't think it's fair to base JMM competence on the fight against Floyd, because it's Floyd Mayweather. Marquez and Pacquiao are combination punchers when they are at their best, and nobody lands combinations on Floyd. Stylistically Marquez wouldn't have had the speed to deal with Mayweather even if they were the same size. Honestly, besides a couple of inches in height Floyd wasn't that much bigger than Marquez, and he was just as much faster when he was a lightweight as Marquez is at 135. I think people see Marquez being dramatically slower at 147 because we can compare it directly to his last fight which took place at 135, but go back and look at Floyd at 135 and he was way faster in terms of footspeed. Everyone gets slower as they get bigger, and Floyd wasn't that much bigger than JMM maybe 4 pounds and two inches taller.

Back to the point, I think Mosley matches up much better physically against Manny than JMM does, and I think JMM does well stylistically against Pacquiao, maybe even better than Mosley, but it's impossible to tell because we've seen Pacquiao fight somebody with a style roughly like JMM's about 7 times, and we haven't seen fight somebody like Mosley ever. That's why it intrigues me far more. Even Berto's blistering speed and ability on the outside makes me feel like he is a better and more unique challenge than JMM is for Manny, but I think he gets knocked out because he doesn't seem to have the mental sharpness to fight against Pacquiao for 12 rounds. He just hasn't shown it.

Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.

It's not often I agree with Taeth but here I do. People are saying Mosley has been ruined as a credible opponent because of his defeat to Floyd, but Floyd beat Marquez even easier than he beat Shane.

Mosley almost put Floyd down, against Mayweather the only people at risk being put to sleep by Marquez were the fans.

Mosley vs Pacquaio is a great matchup imo. I'd love to see it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.

---

Exactly, Mosely relied on speed and whatever he got found guilty of using. Now he has slowed down hes not as effective. Notice in the Mayorga fight, Ricardo was outboxing him and Mosely has the energy to land a decent few shots in the final seconds but also doesnt need to be tested;)

Marquez is a much better boxer than Mosely and has already proven he has Mannys number. Ok Morales beat him but in the rematches he couldnt repeat that but Marquez will always handle Manny.

This is a daft question. "JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?"

Marquez would do better against Manny and not Floyd because Floyd is better than Manny! Simples!!

When you compare both Mosleys and Marquez' performances against Mayweather back to back. Both got completely schooled in every aspect but the difference is in 1 round Mosley had Floyd hurt whereas Marquez was dropped by Floyd in 1 round.

After two attempts Marquez has failed to convince the judges he is better than Pac so its probably time to let someone else have a go. Mosley is bigger than Marquez, obviously hits harder and has a better chin. Lets see how his style does against Pac instead of Marquez again. Ideally it should be Sergio vs Pac but if it were between these two faded greats Id go with Shane.

I actually think it'll be a bit of a travesty if Marquez gets a 3rd fight.

I think Pac would beat either of them especially if it's at manny pacquiao weight.

Marquez deserves this fight more though. He's beat pac twice and been screwed twice. So he deserves it more.

Mosley got trounced by floyd and got a draw agaist mora. He ain't earnt it.

Because it's been a year since Manny kayoed an opponent. I think fighting Marquez rejuvinates that kayo fountain. Fighting Mosely makes more money and sense IMO.

Mosley has had one good performance in the last 6-7 years.

With exception of 2nd round...maybe I'm nuts but I think Marquez gave Mayweather a stiffer go of it then Mosley did. Still dont think he gets credit for rights vs Mayweather. No he didnt rock him but was somewhat accurate with it.

To question...24 rounds. History. JMM just has more in the tank and punch selection is just a beautiful thing. On other hand....I honestly cant say Manny can take Mosleys best punch,would love to see what happened when nailed on chin...and he would be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.

---

Exactly, Mosely relied on speed and whatever he got found guilty of using. Now he has slowed down hes not as effective. Notice in the Mayorga fight, Ricardo was outboxing him and Mosely has the energy to land a decent few shots in the final seconds but also doesnt need to be tested;)

Marquez is a much better boxer than Mosely and has already proven he has Mannys number. Ok Morales beat him but in the rematches he couldnt repeat that but Marquez will always handle Manny.

This is a daft question. "JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?"

Marquez would do better against Manny and not Floyd because Floyd is better than Manny! Simples!!

---

Sorry where was Ricardo outboxing Mosley in that fight, it was awkward, but Mosley was landing way better shots than Mayorga was. At no point was Mayorga really winning rounds, he was just making in an awkward fight. HE was landing like 10% of his punches against Shane.

Shane's performance against Margarito was considered arguably his best ever, he looked good against Collazo and Cotto who are really good and great fighters respectively.

Honestly Mora would be hard for anyone to look good against, he has a slick style that was almost B-hopish with a jab that night. There is no way that Mosley was going to look good against that style, and I wondered why he ever took that fight because unless he stopped MOra it was ugly, but he should have won that fight and landed way more punches than Mora. I'm not even sure Floyd or Manny would have looked good against Mora. It's just a pain in the ass style to deal with.

Mosley still has tremendous speed, and more than enough of it to land on Manny, he has that cracking power when he really lands, he hits so hard to the body, and he's probably as durable as anyone has been in boxing's history. I mean he has taken some helacious punches in his career. I think you put a guy like Manny who likes to fight and use speed, and we have Mosley at his absolute best in an absolute war.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hornfinger

Mosley has had one good performance in the last 6-7 years.

---

Do you watch boxing? Cotto, Collazo, Vargas II, Margarito. He would have had more, but there were long stretches where he was trying to get big fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.

---

Exactly, Mosely relied on speed and whatever he got found guilty of using. Now he has slowed down hes not as effective. Notice in the Mayorga fight, Ricardo was outboxing him and Mosely has the energy to land a decent few shots in the final seconds but also doesnt need to be tested;)

Marquez is a much better boxer than Mosely and has already proven he has Mannys number. Ok Morales beat him but in the rematches he couldnt repeat that but Marquez will always handle Manny.

This is a daft question. "JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?"

Marquez would do better against Manny and not Floyd because Floyd is better than Manny! Simples!!

---

Sorry where was Ricardo outboxing Mosley in that fight, it was awkward, but Mosley was landing way better shots than Mayorga was. At no point was Mayorga really winning rounds, he was just making in an awkward fight. HE was landing like 10% of his punches against Shane.

Shane's performance against Margarito was considered arguably his best ever, he looked good against Collazo and Cotto who are really good and great fighters respectively.

Honestly Mora would be hard for anyone to look good against, he has a slick style that was almost B-hopish with a jab that night. There is no way that Mosley was going to look good against that style, and I wondered why he ever took that fight because unless he stopped MOra it was ugly, but he should have won that fight and landed way more punches than Mora. I'm not even sure Floyd or Manny would have looked good against Mora. It's just a pain in the ass style to deal with.

Mosley still has tremendous speed, and more than enough of it to land on Manny, he has that cracking power when he really lands, he hits so hard to the body, and he's probably as durable as anyone has been in boxing's history. I mean he has taken some helacious punches in his career. I think you put a guy like Manny who likes to fight and use speed, and we have Mosley at his absolute best in an absolute war.

---

ummm Mayorga wasn't winning rounds? the fight was almost even going into the final round, that's why the last minute KO was such a big deal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.

---

Exactly, Mosely relied on speed and whatever he got found guilty of using. Now he has slowed down hes not as effective. Notice in the Mayorga fight, Ricardo was outboxing him and Mosely has the energy to land a decent few shots in the final seconds but also doesnt need to be tested;)

Marquez is a much better boxer than Mosely and has already proven he has Mannys number. Ok Morales beat him but in the rematches he couldnt repeat that but Marquez will always handle Manny.

This is a daft question. "JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?"

Marquez would do better against Manny and not Floyd because Floyd is better than Manny! Simples!!

---

JMM has no chance above 140 . Look for Pac camp to set it at 147. Pac would not fight Cotto at 147 always manipulated to what suits Pac advantage thus no Mayweather fight. Floyd will never give Pac an advantage !

I think Mosley and JMM should fight each other with the winner fighting Pacman in May. I would rather see Pac fighting a young lion in Berto then to see him fight a now undeserving fighter in SSM and a small Jr Welter in JMM whom he has beat already. Or another way of putting this; If its not PBF then what is the point of any fight from here on out?

Because a counter puncher is what gives Pac trouble and that is what Marquez is good at. Marquez causes Pac more trouble than Shane IMO. Although I'd like to see a fight between Pac and Marquez at Lightweight.

i'd like to see pac-marquez at 142-144lbs with mosley-berto as an undercard. if pac gets passed marquez which i expect he would, then let manny fight the mosley-berto winner. if mosley beat berto it shows he still has something, while a berto victory gives him a named opponent into his resume.

If Marquez was more tested above 140, we'd be able to provide you a better answer. Why are you so certain that Mosley would beat Marquez at 147? In my opinion, that is the fight that should be made and the winner should get Pac.

The simple answer is simply because JMM is better.

SSM has been on the slide for years now and he's gone from sliding to free fall. It just wouldn't be competitive

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.

---

Exactly, Mosely relied on speed and whatever he got found guilty of using. Now he has slowed down hes not as effective. Notice in the Mayorga fight, Ricardo was outboxing him and Mosely has the energy to land a decent few shots in the final seconds but also doesnt need to be tested;)

Marquez is a much better boxer than Mosely and has already proven he has Mannys number. Ok Morales beat him but in the rematches he couldnt repeat that but Marquez will always handle Manny.

This is a daft question. "JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?"

Marquez would do better against Manny and not Floyd because Floyd is better than Manny! Simples!!

---

Sorry where was Ricardo outboxing Mosley in that fight, it was awkward, but Mosley was landing way better shots than Mayorga was. At no point was Mayorga really winning rounds, he was just making in an awkward fight. HE was landing like 10% of his punches against Shane.

Shane's performance against Margarito was considered arguably his best ever, he looked good against Collazo and Cotto who are really good and great fighters respectively.

Honestly Mora would be hard for anyone to look good against, he has a slick style that was almost B-hopish with a jab that night. There is no way that Mosley was going to look good against that style, and I wondered why he ever took that fight because unless he stopped MOra it was ugly, but he should have won that fight and landed way more punches than Mora. I'm not even sure Floyd or Manny would have looked good against Mora. It's just a pain in the ass style to deal with.

Mosley still has tremendous speed, and more than enough of it to land on Manny, he has that cracking power when he really lands, he hits so hard to the body, and he's probably as durable as anyone has been in boxing's history. I mean he has taken some helacious punches in his career. I think you put a guy like Manny who likes to fight and use speed, and we have Mosley at his absolute best in an absolute war.

---

ummm Mayorga wasn't winning rounds? the fight was almost even going into the final round, that's why the last minute KO was such a big deal

---

lol watch the fight again, Mayorga wasn't landing anything, if you give rounds for just coming forward and looking awkward, then all the best to you.

Shane is more viable than JMM at welter because he is a legitimate fighter at that weight. I would prefer to see Pac fight Berto however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master

Shane is more viable than JMM at welter because he is a legitimate fighter at that weight. I would prefer to see Pac fight Berto however.

---

Maybe harsh but just dont think Berto has the mental make up right now to go after and maintain vs Manny though his handspeed is obvious. Seems we've been waiting forever for that 'break out' fight.

its beacuse mosley is shot and there are shadows hanging over the previous 2 fights with pac and jmm......jmm has a bit more tp offer the mosley in turns of whats left in the tank and the style thats had pacman in truble.......people would want to see a final chapter on the matter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.

---

Exactly, Mosely relied on speed and whatever he got found guilty of using. Now he has slowed down hes not as effective. Notice in the Mayorga fight, Ricardo was outboxing him and Mosely has the energy to land a decent few shots in the final seconds but also doesnt need to be tested;)

Marquez is a much better boxer than Mosely and has already proven he has Mannys number. Ok Morales beat him but in the rematches he couldnt repeat that but Marquez will always handle Manny.

This is a daft question. "JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?"

Marquez would do better against Manny and not Floyd because Floyd is better than Manny! Simples!!

---

Sorry where was Ricardo outboxing Mosley in that fight, it was awkward, but Mosley was landing way better shots than Mayorga was. At no point was Mayorga really winning rounds, he was just making in an awkward fight. HE was landing like 10% of his punches against Shane.

Shane's performance against Margarito was considered arguably his best ever, he looked good against Collazo and Cotto who are really good and great fighters respectively.

Honestly Mora would be hard for anyone to look good against, he has a slick style that was almost B-hopish with a jab that night. There is no way that Mosley was going to look good against that style, and I wondered why he ever took that fight because unless he stopped MOra it was ugly, but he should have won that fight and landed way more punches than Mora. I'm not even sure Floyd or Manny would have looked good against Mora. It's just a pain in the ass style to deal with.

Mosley still has tremendous speed, and more than enough of it to land on Manny, he has that cracking power when he really lands, he hits so hard to the body, and he's probably as durable as anyone has been in boxing's history. I mean he has taken some helacious punches in his career. I think you put a guy like Manny who likes to fight and use speed, and we have Mosley at his absolute best in an absolute war.

---

ummm Mayorga wasn't winning rounds? the fight was almost even going into the final round, that's why the last minute KO was such a big deal

---

lol watch the fight again, Mayorga wasn't landing anything, if you give rounds for just coming forward and looking awkward, then all the best to you.

---

scores going into the fight were Tony Crebs 107-102 (Mosley), Pat Russell 104-105 (Mayorga), Nelson Vazquez 105-104 (Mosley), think you need to rewatch the fight, why is it not shocking that Taeth once again thinks he's the all knowing poster when FACT is that Mayorga was very much in the fight ON THE SCORECARDS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hornfinger

Mosley has had one good performance in the last 6-7 years.

---

Do you watch boxing? Cotto, Collazo, Vargas II, Margarito. He would have had more, but there were long stretches where he was trying to get big fights.

---

He was just ok against Cotto though. He looked good against a finished Vargas and Collazo broke his hand in the 2nd round of the fight with Mosley, after initially looking very good.

The only really good performance came against Margarito.

He was poor against Mayorga, Estrada, Cruz, 1st Vargas fight, Mayweather (apart from that punch in the 2nd) and finally against Mora.

He quite clearly doesn't have enough in the tank to deal with Pacquiao's movements as the fight goes on. He was clearly gassed against floyd. Against Pacquiao it would be much worse as he would have to fight at a higher tempo. I think it would be a terrible fight in all honesty. Wouldn't even be remotely close.

Marquez - Pacquiao is much more interesting.

Do you think Marquez vs. Pacquiao at 147 would be more interesting?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Do you think Marquez vs. Pacquiao at 147 would be more interesting?

---

No but at 140lb it would be but that will not happen, Pac will not give JMM that advantage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Do you think Marquez vs. Pacquiao at 147 would be more interesting?

---

Definitely. Marquez doesn't have to weigh in at 147. He can weigh in at around 138lb ish. Pacquiao will weigh in at around 147lbs. When they re-hydrate, Pacquiao would probably only be around 150lbs and Marquez would be around 145-147lbs. I don't think it will make a tonne of difference.

It's not his size and strength that are dangerous to Pacquiao. It's his all round ability. It would be much more exciting than Pacquiao - Mosley.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Do you think Marquez vs. Pacquiao at 147 would be more interesting?

---

No but at 140lb it would be but that will not happen, Pac will not give JMM that advantage.

---

Exactly. Why would Pacquiao move down to 140? It wouldn't make any sense. He is at 147 now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Do you think Marquez vs. Pacquiao at 147 would be more interesting?

---

Definitely. Marquez doesn't have to weigh in at 147. He can weigh in at around 138lb ish. Pacquiao will weigh in at around 147lbs. When they re-hydrate, Pacquiao would probably only be around 150lbs and Marquez would be around 145-147lbs. I don't think it will make a tonne of difference.

It's not his size and strength that are dangerous to Pacquiao. It's his all round ability. It would be much more exciting than Pacquiao - Mosley.

---

I'm just not sure. I'm not convinced Marquez is as effective above 135 and I'm not convinced Mosley isn't completely passed it at this point in his career. That is why I think a Bradley fight gives Pacquiao the most credibility.

If you were Marquez and you wanted the fight with Pacquiao so badly, and Pacquiao is now fighting at 147 and 150 pounds, what would you do put yourself in the best possible position to get the fight? I would challenge a big name at 140 or 147 and then give Pacquiao no excuses. What does Marquez do? He fights Kastidis at 135. It makes me wonder how comfortable Marquez really is above 135. If I were him, I'd be championing to fight the winner of the Bradley/Alexander or Maidana/Khan fight or Shane Mosley himself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Do you think Marquez vs. Pacquiao at 147 would be more interesting?

---

Definitely. Marquez doesn't have to weigh in at 147. He can weigh in at around 138lb ish. Pacquiao will weigh in at around 147lbs. When they re-hydrate, Pacquiao would probably only be around 150lbs and Marquez would be around 145-147lbs. I don't think it will make a tonne of difference.

It's not his size and strength that are dangerous to Pacquiao. It's his all round ability. It would be much more exciting than Pacquiao - Mosley.

---

I'm just not sure. I'm not convinced Marquez is as effective above 135 and I'm not convinced Mosley isn't completely passed it at this point in his career. That is why I think a Bradley fight gives Pacquiao the most credibility.

If you were Marquez and you wanted the fight with Pacquiao so badly, and Pacquiao is now fighting at 147 and 150 pounds, what would you do put yourself in the best possible position to get the fight? I would challenge a big name at 140 or 147 and then give Pacquiao no excuses. What does Marquez do? He fights Kastidis at 135. It makes me wonder how comfortable Marquez really is above 135. If I were him, I'd be championing to fight the winner of the Bradley/Alexander or Maidana/Khan fight or Shane Mosley himself.

---

Is it your logic or are you just thinking superficial here? I don't get it. How does it make any difference what weight class they set the fight at? They will both step into the ring at their fighting weight. Their weight will be pretty close to the weight they fought at as super featherweights. The only difference I see is they don't have to dehydrate to make weight. Wouldn't it be more comfortable for both fighters to come in at their natural fighting weight than to have to dehydrate to make a lower weight?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Do you think Marquez vs. Pacquiao at 147 would be more interesting?

---

No but at 140lb it would be but that will not happen, Pac will not give JMM that advantage.

---

Exactly. Why would Pacquiao move down to 140? It wouldn't make any sense. He is at 147 now.

---

well if a pac-jmm fight does get made pac better move down in weight to make it more interesting so that more people will watch it and buy the ppv. if the fight is at 147 then pacquiao is no better than floyd.

i don't think manny will have problem making 140lbs. even 142-144lbs is better than 147.

I think Killer and Spicoli hit it when he said it's down to punch selection. Mosley has just been doing the same thing over and over again. He could barely find Sergio Mora, he won (or should've won) that fight on pure aggression where Marquez places his shots better then anyone in the game outside of Mayweahter. More intelligent fighter at this point with more in the tank and oh yeah, he's the only guy since Morales to put Pacquiao in any sort of deep water. I think that's a fight that'll force Pacquiao to come back down to Earth more. Outside of Mayweather, that's the best fight available for Pacquiao.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amat

I think Killer and Spicoli hit it when he said it's down to punch selection. Mosley has just been doing the same thing over and over again. He could barely find Sergio Mora, he won (or should've won) that fight on pure aggression where Marquez places his shots better then anyone in the game outside of Mayweahter. More intelligent fighter at this point with more in the tank and oh yeah, he's the only guy since Morales to put Pacquiao in any sort of deep water. I think that's a fight that'll force Pacquiao to come back down to Earth more. Outside of Mayweather, that's the best fight available for Pacquiao.

---

There is definitely a better choice of opponent for Pacquiao than Mosley but Marquez ain't it.
With Marquez' weight at 144, Mayweather was practically sparring with him. I think were footwork is concerned, Marquez can't afford to fight guys who can jump about the way Pacquiao does. Plus unless the fight is at 135 (were imo Pacquiao would be weaker than he is now, despite being in a class of smaller guys), Marquez is in no position to carry the weight the same way Pacquiao has. Wrong age, wrong body type, just wrong.

He would just be conceding more and more mobility, strength and power the HIGHER in weight he goes.

IF by some slight chance the fight was at 135 then I might give Marquez a chance of making the full 12 but anywhere north of 135 and he gets walked over. I mean completely annihilated :-\

I really hope this fight doesn't get made.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Grinch

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amat

I think Killer and Spicoli hit it when he said it's down to punch selection. Mosley has just been doing the same thing over and over again. He could barely find Sergio Mora, he won (or should've won) that fight on pure aggression where Marquez places his shots better then anyone in the game outside of Mayweahter. More intelligent fighter at this point with more in the tank and oh yeah, he's the only guy since Morales to put Pacquiao in any sort of deep water. I think that's a fight that'll force Pacquiao to come back down to Earth more. Outside of Mayweather, that's the best fight available for Pacquiao.

---

There is definitely a better choice of opponent for Pacquiao than Mosley but Marquez ain't it.
With Marquez' weight at 144, Mayweather was practically sparring with him. I think were footwork is concerned, Marquez can't afford to fight guys who can jump about the way Pacquiao does. Plus unless the fight is at 135 (were imo Pacquiao would be weaker than he is now, despite being in a class of smaller guys), Marquez is in no position to carry the weight the same way Pacquiao has. Wrong age, wrong body type, just wrong.

He would just be conceding more and more mobility, strength and power the HIGHER in weight he goes.

IF by some slight chance the fight was at 135 then I might give Marquez a chance of making the full 12 but anywhere north of 135 and he gets walked over. I mean completely annihilated :-\

I really hope this fight doesn't get made.

---

Uh? Wouldn't the age for making a lower weight favor the younger fighter and coming in at a more natural fighting weight favor the older fighter?

I believe the weight issue for Marquez losing to Mayweather was mostly mental. Mayweather beats Marquez because of his style and ring savvy every day of the week.

Johnny, I'll put it this way.

Both fighters optimal weights have changed (inevitably gone up) over the years but it's the performances the two have put on that show that while one is basically growing old, the other is growing stronger.

Also, Pacquiao also appears to be naturally capable (and comfortable) at fighting at a higher weight.

*Marquez' optimal weight is probably 135(ish)
*Pacquiao's optimal weight is now 144(ish)

With Pacquiao being Pacquiao I can't see the fight being made below 144. So IMO that's bad news for Marquez, who's fights in a way that see's experience prevail. However, foor all his mastery, it's not like guys like Katsidis and Diaz haven't been able to get to him. Even a shot Cassamayor was beating him before he got stopped.

I understand that a lot of people could say that Manny looks a lot better facing these guys who just come marching forward but you have to just look at the way he pulverised Miguel Cotto to see how that argument is made redundant.

Manny is much fresher, even moreso at the higher weights. (above 135). It would be WORSE than the Cotto beat down. The way I see it, Marquez speed is becoming laborious. Manny is in overdrive.

It would be horrible to watch I can't stress enough how much I REALLY do no want this fight to happen :eek:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Grinch

Johnny, I'll put it this way.

Both fighters optimal weights have changed (inevitably gone up) over the years but it's the performances the two have put on that show that while one is basically growing old, the other is growing stronger.

Also, Pacquiao also appears to be naturally capable (and comfortable) at fighting at a higher weight.

*Marquez' optimal weight is probably 135(ish)
*Pacquiao's optimal weight is now 144(ish)

With Pacquiao being Pacquiao I can't see the fight being made below 144. So IMO that's bad news for Marquez, who's fights in a way that see's experience prevail. However, foor all his mastery, it's not like guys like Katsidis and Diaz haven't been able to get to him. Even a shot Cassamayor was beating him before he got stopped.

I understand that a lot of people could say that Manny looks a lot better facing these guys who just come marching forward but you have to just look at the way he pulverised Miguel Cotto to see how that argument is made redundant.

Manny is much fresher, even moreso at the higher weights. (above 135). It would be WORSE than the Cotto beat down. The way I see it, Marquez speed is becoming laborious. Manny is in overdrive.

It would be horrible to watch I can't stress enough how much I REALLY do no want this fight to happen :eek:

---

I disagree I think Manny's best weight would probably be lightweight, he wouldn't have to cut hard and his speed would still be better than anyone's. Honestly at this point after re-watching older Pacquiao fights, I think he's moved beyond Marquez's level of skill. The problem with Pacquiao when he was lighter is he would start throwing punches so far away from his opponent, and it would hamper his combinations and fluidity. I think now that he uses footwork more effectively, and he has a better idea of timing and range that he would be too good for Marquez. THe difference between the first and second fight is very clear. Even in the rounds MArquez was winning Manny was doing a lot better in the second fight, and he actually has continued to improve. I think having guys like Amir Khan around have really helped Pacquiao develop his boxing skills as opposed to just his fighting skills which he used to only have.