Pacquiao Should KO Mosley to Prove he is better than Mayweather

by MORTZ ORTIGOZA

Since our dream of a mega-fight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather , Jr. is as elusive as the conclusion of a peace treaty between the Israelis and the
Palestinians, then we should satisfy ourselves to use as yardstick the impending rumble between Manny and Sugar Shane Mosley to conclude who is the most superior between them . Mosley is the less shot
Compared to the last three pugs Manny has fought, Shane is the less shot.
Miguel Cotto was resurrected from his death bed by Bob Arum when he fought Manny. The slow moving and Top Rank’s over-hyped Antonio Margarito – who “hanged” Cotto to the guillotine – was a damaged “goods” (of Mosley’s TKO) when he fought Manny.
Joshua Clottey was a joke after he only satisfied himself in re-arranging the face of Manny from Tom Cruise to Walter Matthau, and then sandbagged himself the whole night
that nearly killed some spectators in Texas with boredom.
Pacquiao has tasted TKO
Cotto, Margarito, and Pacquaio have already experienced what was liked to be in the dream-land at the dais. Mosley has not.
The only experience he got near a knock-out is a knockdown from the bigger and taller Vernon Forrest.
This loss to Forrest (twice) is the argument that his two losses to Winky Wright, and his draw to Sergio Mora is about the size (man that was a joke, er, duke in the Light
Middleweight from a natural Welterweight) and style.
Mosley’s go-go style rumble was no match to a turtle shelled but sneaking hitter Wrights. Mosley offensive style was no match to a long reached Forrest and the run-a-away
defensive style of Mora.
The loss of the Pomona, California native to puncher Cotto was disputable.
His then trainer and father Jack said that Shane has been undermined by a breathing problem because of a damaged tissue that made his clashes with Cotto and Fernando Vargas (twice) sluggish.
But after he undergone surgery for that nuisance tissue that blocked 60% of oxygen he breathed, his performances did not only improve. He knocked out big time two
Abram’s Tank poster boys Ricardo Mayorga and Margarito.
Motor Mouth Mayweather did not even knock down Mosley Even Money May schooled Shane in their last fight, he did not knock him down.But if Manny send him to the canvass, that would be a big blow to Floyd. That would be a mother of all rebuttals Pacnuts could argue with Floyd freaks.
As if Pacquaio has knocked –out too the swashbuckling motor mouth of Nevada native.
Then he could say adieu with Floyd, and instead concentrate for his remiss work in congress (Remember, he kept pre-occupying himself in boxing when he was elected to fulfill a full-time job crafting laws for the betterment of his people and not for himself only) if he intends to win a senatorial and a presidential posts that he wants to aspire in the future.
(Send comments to totomortz@yahoo.com)

You write well for a new guy. By the way... I really liked your song "Africa" many years ago.

;D

Having said that, I think your logic suffers a little on a few counts. First of all... IMO Pac has nothing, nyet, nada, to prove to Pretty Boy. On the contrary... the ball is firmly in Pretty Boy's court, except that he won't be doing any dribbling any time soon, except in the slammer. Maybe there he'll find a captive audience who will believe his claims to be the world's p4p, although he's done nothing to deserve it in the last few years. He beat a grossly undersized JMM (not everyone can jump several weight classes like Pac has done), and then beat an unexplicably shy and suddenly old-looking Shane Mosley. (Why he didn't capitalize on that huge right that rocked Pretty Boy early on, I'll never know).

Meanwhile, Pac has defied all odds by beating bigger and stronger men. Say what you will about Pac's opponents. But BEFORE the fights, you'd be hard pressed to find fans with conviction who would've predicted the ease with which Pac dispatched those opponents. It's not Pac's fault that Clottey shamefully decided to rob boxing fans of their money by going into a shell and not fighting that night. And it's not Pac's fault that Cotto came in with a TOTALLY wrong gameplan against him, going toe-to-toe and throwing 1 punch for every 5 of Pac's. It's easy to pick fights apart after they're done. It's called "Monday morning quarterbacking".

But back to your main point. Pac needs to do NOTHING to prove he's better than Mayweather. He already has. It's Pretty Boy who needs to do everything in his power to get that fight and shut Pac's fans up. But that's gonna be a bit difficult to do from his jail cell. So all we're left with are theories and conjectures.

Interesting post but cannot compare fighters on performances against common opponents and decide who is better.

Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF a while and when fighting JMM pac has probably been given his 2 toughest fights in years while mayweather handled him with ease (far too big)

this does not mean that 1 is better than the other it means that they handle different fighters in different ways as they both have their individual styles that give them advantages and disadvantages.

Yes pac may handle Mosley better than mayweather but i find it hard to see mayweather taking as many shots against margarito as manny did.

Like i said when it comes to common opponents you cannot judge who is the better fighter. All it does for me is add to the intrigue and interest in a fight eventually being made and seeing who is the better fighter that way.

I don't think stopping Mosley will prove he is better than Mayweather. Mayweather likes to outbox his opponents and isn't shy about going to the cards. I've little doubt that Manny is a harder puncher than Floyd and can also land a lot more than Floyd because of his output, but I don't think stopping Mosley proves anything regarding being better than Floyd.

They will need to face one another to decide that. Pac has been a freak since moving above LW. I don't understand how he has managed to carry that speed, power and output and along the way barely flinches when hit by much bigger men. I think it is all too much for Mayweather and Mayweather will get outworked, but that's just an assumption on my part.

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Originally Posted by miles

I don't understand how he has managed to carry that speed, power and output and along the way barely flinches when hit by much bigger men. .

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A - Side Meth?



I Believe Roberto Duran went on to beat a relatively BIG Middleweight in Iran Barkley starting from Bantamweight. How Duran did it might give you some hints on the reasons on how is it possible.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by miles

I don't understand how he has managed to carry that speed, power and output and along the way barely flinches when hit by much bigger men. .

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A - Side Meth?



I Believe Roberto Duran went on to beat a relatively BIG Middleweight in Iran Barkley starting from Bantamweight. How Duran did it might give you some hints on the reasons on how is it possible.

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No, I can't just accuse him of that based on Mayweather Snr alone, but I would love to see Manny Pac take Olympic style testing and see if he just as effective. For sure, there are doubts in the back of my mind concerning how Pac has carried his power and speed and is yet more destructive. I don't recall opponents in the lower weight classes having their facial bones smashed in. Pac is defying all logic with how he has performed in the past couple of years. Duran, certainly at MW and beyond was not a murderous puncher. He wasn't breaking faces or knocking people unconscious like Pac has been doing.

I would like to see top level boxing be monitored more closely as we have seen fighters like Mosley and Toney admit to or get caught using illegal substances. Olympic style testing is the only way to make sure. There is no reason for loopholes to exist where fighters might well be performing on drugs.

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Originally Posted by miles

No, I can't just accuse him of that based on Mayweather Snr alone, but I would love to see Manny Pac take Olympic style testing and see if he just as effective. For sure, there are doubts in the back of my mind concerning how Pac has carried his power and speed and is yet more destructive. I don't recall opponents in the lower weight classes having their facial bones smashed in. Pac is defying all logic with how he has performed in the past couple of years. Duran, certainly at MW and beyond was not a murderous puncher. He wasn't breaking faces or knocking people unconscious like Pac has been doing.

I would like to see top level boxing be monitored more closely as we have seen fighters like Mosley and Toney admit to or get caught using illegal substances. Olympic style testing is the only way to make sure. There is no reason for loopholes to exist where fighters might well be performing on drugs.

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Miles

I have to remind you that the TESTING Floyd was offering WASNT OLYMPIC STYLE. I hope you got it now. OLYMPIC STYLE is YEAR round. Floyd's offer and the one he took with Mosley WASNT OLYMPIC STYLE because it wasnt YEAR ROUND.

The Duration of What Floyd and Shane took was just for a few months covering their contract.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by miles

No, I can't just accuse him of that based on Mayweather Snr alone, but I would love to see Manny Pac take Olympic style testing and see if he just as effective. For sure, there are doubts in the back of my mind concerning how Pac has carried his power and speed and is yet more destructive. I don't recall opponents in the lower weight classes having their facial bones smashed in. Pac is defying all logic with how he has performed in the past couple of years. Duran, certainly at MW and beyond was not a murderous puncher. He wasn't breaking faces or knocking people unconscious like Pac has been doing.

I would like to see top level boxing be monitored more closely as we have seen fighters like Mosley and Toney admit to or get caught using illegal substances. Olympic style testing is the only way to make sure. There is no reason for loopholes to exist where fighters might well be performing on drugs.

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Miles

I have to remind you that the TESTING Floyd was offering WASNT OLYMPIC STYLE. I hope you got it now. OLYMPIC STYLE is YEAR round. Floyd's offer and the one he took with Mosley WASNT OLYMPIC STYLE because it wasnt YEAR ROUND.

The Duration of What Floyd and Shane took was just for a few months covering their contract.

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The same kind of testing that was used for Mosley/Mayweather then. The kind where they check the blood in addition to urine.

@Armyash
You said :"Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF".
Floyd justified it. He said Manny Used an 8- ounce glove, while Motor Mouth Money May used 10- ounced glove. The dude has sound reasoning here. 10 ounce was much thicker than Manny's 8 Ounce thus Floyds took time to KO Hatton - Mortz

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Originally Posted by miles

The same kind of testing that was used for Mosley/Mayweather then. The kind where they check the blood in addition to urine.

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I was hoping Manny would agree to anything Floyd asks as well. just for the fight to get made.


but Manny's pride is comparable to that of Floyd so this fight might not happen.

To be honest I dont think Pac can 'prove' he's better than Mayweather and vice versa, unless they fight each other. Otherwise it's all subjective. One can probably end up saying that he's 'greater' due to records and acheivements and what not, but that doesn't neccessarily make a better, more skilled boxer.

As for knocking out Mosley, he's knocked out or TKO'd other fighters after Floyd fought them... they have different styles, end of.

As long as Mayweather would not fight Pacquiao, the Mayweather-Pacquaio who-is- the- best- of- em- all would just be become subjective. And we can't do anythin' if people try to compare how each of em (Shane and Manny) fares to Mayweather.
It's like a poser: WHAT WOULD HAPPENED IF MANNY GOT A SPLIT DECISION WITH SHANE? OR SHANE KO'D HIM?
We can not avoid people dissing Manny as an inferior boxer than Shane despite both of them did not duke with each other. That's their opinion. That's subjective.

He will stop Mosley. Not because he's better than Mayweather though. He'll simply have a higher output than Mayweather did. If Mosley gasses after 3 rounds again, i don't even see him making the championship rounds.

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Originally Posted by ono

He will stop Mosley. Not because he's better than Mayweather though. He'll simply have a higher output than Mayweather did. If Mosley gasses after 3 rounds again, i don't even see him making the championship rounds.

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What will it prove, if Mosley hit Pacman with a round 2 shot and Pacman don't recover? Will people say then that Mayweather is better then Pacman? I think not!

What if Mayweather beat Cotto into retirement? He's already a scared fighter. Will that make Mayweather better then Pacman? Nope.

What if Mayweather UD Clottey? Again, naw!

Pacman is going to keep running the table if Mayweather don't fight him for whatever reason. The mastermind in Arum is setting up his stable to make all the money in house. If Pacman defeat Mosley(IF), the set-up for a rematch between the winner of Cotto vs Margarito 2(Cotto), for the last quarter of the year is so obvious.

No Berto
No Martinez
No Bradley
No Alexander
No JMM
I would like to even see Pacman fight a young but green Ortiz
or Judah after he win the IBF title in March or April.

Bottom line, is Pacman better then Floyd, we will never know unless. . .
Is Pacman P4P #1? Hell yeah. And I'm a big Floyd fan and Pacman hater!!!

Beating Mosley won't make the question marks around pac go away.

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

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Originally Posted by ono

He will stop Mosley. Not because he's better than Mayweather though. He'll simply have a higher output than Mayweather did. If Mosley gasses after 3 rounds again, i don't even see him making the championship rounds.

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What will it prove, if Mosley hit Pacman with a round 2 shot and Pacman don't recover? Will people say then that Mayweather is better then Pacman? I think not!

What if Mayweather beat Cotto into retirement? He's already a scared fighter. Will that make Mayweather better then Pacman? Nope.

What if Mayweather UD Clottey? Again, naw!

Pacman is going to keep running the table if Mayweather don't fight him for whatever reason. The mastermind in Arum is setting up his stable to make all the money in house. If Pacman defeat Mosley(IF), the set-up for a rematch between the winner of Cotto vs Margarito 2(Cotto), for the last quarter of the year is so obvious.

No Berto
No Martinez
No Bradley
No Alexander
No JMM
I would like to even see Pacman fight a young but green Ortiz
or Judah after he win the IBF title in March or April.

Bottom line, is Pacman better then Floyd, we will never know unless. . .
Is Pacman P4P #1? Hell yeah. And I'm a big Floyd fan and Pacman hater!!!

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If Mosley knocks Manny out in two rounds of course everyone will say Floyd is better.:rolleyes:

Just because Manny Pac stops Shane does not make him better fighter than Floyd. They have to fight one another to do that. Manny Pac can stop all of Floys opponents quicker it does not make any difference other than he is a more aggressive fighter.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If Mosley knocks Manny out in two rounds of course everyone will say Floyd is better.:rolleyes:

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I think if Mosley knocks Manny out in ANY ROUND posters here (including me) will be saying (I won't be saying but I will be thinking) that Floyd is better. So, why would the reverse not be applicable? Shouldn't something that is applied to one also be applied to the other?

If Manny knocks Mosley out, it would appear that Manny is better. But I agree that this is subjective until Pacquiao and Mayweather fights each other. But then it should be up to Floyd to discredit that Manny appears better than him.

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Originally Posted by Master

Just because Manny Pac stops Shane does not make him better fighter than Floyd. They have to fight one another to do that. Manny Pac can stop all of Floys opponents quicker it does not make any difference other than he is a more aggressive fighter.

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Exactly. I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to even believe that. It's like saying Hatton is better than Mayweather because he ko'd Castillo. ;D

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Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If Mosley knocks Manny out in two rounds of course everyone will say Floyd is better.:rolleyes:

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I think if Mosley knocks Manny out in ANY ROUND posters here (including me) will be saying (I won't be saying but I will be thinking) that Floyd is better. So, why would the reverse not be applicable? Shouldn't something that is applied to one also be applied to the other?

If Manny knocks Mosley out, it would appear that Manny is better. But I agree that this is subjective until Pacquiao and Mayweather fights each other. But then it would be up to Floyd to discredit that Manny appears better than him.

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But why would he appear to be better than Mayweather? I suppose it could show that he has more power and is more aggressive than Mayweather, but that doesn't make him a better boxer.

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Originally Posted by LukeH

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Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If Mosley knocks Manny out in two rounds of course everyone will say Floyd is better.:rolleyes:

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I think if Mosley knocks Manny out in ANY ROUND posters here (including me) will be saying (I won't be saying but I will be thinking) that Floyd is better. So, why would the reverse not be applicable? Shouldn't something that is applied to one also be applied to the other?

If Manny knocks Mosley out, it would appear that Manny is better. But I agree that this is subjective until Pacquiao and Mayweather fights each other. But then it would be up to Floyd to discredit that Manny appears better than him.

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But why would he appear to be better than Mayweather? I suppose it could show that he has more power and is more aggressive than Mayweather, but that doesn't make him a better boxer.

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Those would definitely make a boxer appear better that the other. The key word here is "appear' and is not a statement of fact. We would, probably, have to settle with who APPEARS to be better until they fight which would determine as to who IS better.

I expect Pacquiao to TKO Mosley in the later rounds, earlier if Shane gasses like he did against Mayweather. If Naazim was thinking about pulling Mosley out against Mayweather than it shouldn't be surprising if he does pull him out against Pacquiao, who will throw far more punches than Mayweather did. That won't make Pacquiao better than Mayweather, and its seriously flawed logic for anyone to use that as a reason for Pacquiao being the better fighter

Pac is already better than Floyd. He's the current boxing king p4p. Like Tito, said the ball is firmly on Mayweather's court. He must outdo Pac again. That should this discussion.

I heard Shane had a nose job. Manny should aim on it. ;D

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Originally Posted by toto

@Armyash
You said :"Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF".
Floyd justified it. He said Manny Used an 8- ounce glove, while Motor Mouth Money May used 10- ounced glove. The dude has sound reasoning here. 10 ounce was much thicker than Manny's 8 Ounce thus Floyds took time to KO Hatton - Mortz

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fair point with the glove size to a point.

but what if pacman wears different gloves to mayweather against mosley then surely it defeats the object of this discussion. judging who is the better fighter when looking at common opponents has to be done on performance only, not everyone on this site will know the size of gloves, boots worn or everything else that must be taken in to consideration.

I get the point you are trying to make though. had mayweather been wearing 8oz gloves would he have blasted hatton out too? possibly, but then you have to look at both their performances against JMM again. What size gloves were they each wearing? did this affect pacs performance was he wearing different gloves to mayweather?

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Originally Posted by armyash

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Originally Posted by toto

@Armyash
You said :"Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF".
Floyd justified it. He said Manny Used an 8- ounce glove, while Motor Mouth Money May used 10- ounced glove. The dude has sound reasoning here. 10 ounce was much thicker than Manny's 8 Ounce thus Floyds took time to KO Hatton - Mortz

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fair point with the glove size to a point.

but what if pacman wears different gloves to mayweather against mosley then surely it defeats the object of this discussion. judging who is the better fighter when looking at common opponents has to be done on performance only, not everyone on this site will know the size of gloves, boots worn or everything else that must be taken in to consideration.

I get the point you are trying to make though. had mayweather been wearing 8oz gloves would he have blasted hatton out too? possibly, but then you have to look at both their performances against JMM again. What size gloves were they each wearing? did this affect pacs performance was he wearing different gloves to mayweather?

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Impossible. Floyd would have shattered his fragile hands.

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Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner

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Originally Posted by LukeH

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Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If Mosley knocks Manny out in two rounds of course everyone will say Floyd is better.:rolleyes:

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I think if Mosley knocks Manny out in ANY ROUND posters here (including me) will be saying (I won't be saying but I will be thinking) that Floyd is better. So, why would the reverse not be applicable? Shouldn't something that is applied to one also be applied to the other?

If Manny knocks Mosley out, it would appear that Manny is better. But I agree that this is subjective until Pacquiao and Mayweather fights each other. But then it would be up to Floyd to discredit that Manny appears better than him.

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But why would he appear to be better than Mayweather? I suppose it could show that he has more power and is more aggressive than Mayweather, but that doesn't make him a better boxer.

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Those would definitely make a boxer appear better that the other. The key word here is "appear' and is not a statement of fact. We would, probably, have to settle with who APPEARS to be better until they fight which would determine as to who IS better.

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Appear to who? If someone can conjure the thought that something would 'appear' to be one way, surely they can understand the fact that due to the different style of boxing each of them possess, outcomes of their fights with common opponents will be different.

If your talking about the general public/ casual fans then fair enough, but they aren't usually the ones debating poeples all time standings and things like that.

The statistic of having a knockout doesn't prove anything, which is what the thread title suggests.

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Originally Posted by toto

@Armyash
You said :"Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF".
Floyd justified it. He said Manny Used an 8- ounce glove, while Motor Mouth Money May used 10- ounced glove. The dude has sound reasoning here. 10 ounce was much thicker than Manny's 8 Ounce thus Floyds took time to KO Hatton - Mortz

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Your kidding with that comment I hope?

First off Floyd could have used 8oz gloves if he chose to he did not that is his problem. In truth the difference between 8 and 10oz gloves do not hold as much of a difference as you think. Even if you put that aside Floyd was not landing the volume of punches that Manny was and Floyd did not set the pace Manny set when each faced Hatton...

Floyd is a counter puncher Manny is an aggressive fighter, Floyd waits for his man to come to him Manny attacks and does not stop, there is no time to breathe with Manny....In Clotteys own words ( yes Clottey is not known for his output we know this nor is he an overly fast fighter with his hands but he is world class and no walk over for anyone) he could not open up long enough to get off because anytime he did Manny tagged him too many times keeping him on defense, he also said even when he landed and knew the punches had meaning as some moved Manny backwards Manny did not retreat he came forward twice as hard throwing punches....You can't defend what you can not see....

Your post up there while a decent attempt to make a point has way too many holes in it, you are coming across more as a fan of Floyds then a fan of boxing....

Manny does not need to stop Mosley to prove he is better and he does not need to prove anything to Mayweather....Like it or not Manny is the man right now and the only way for Floyd to take it away from him is to fight him and beat him if he wont even step in the ring what does that say about Floyd? Because the other guys out there are not going on about the PED shit....Floyd sunk to new levels with the whole Manny thing, mud slinging did not work out he did not bait Manny and Manny will not get rattled...Shit Floyd even went on to make fun of Manny's ethnic heritage....No one told Floyd to retire, fight the most vunerable names with credibility or to take a so called retirement.....He chose to he thought boxing was going to stop because he was not around, he thought who ever attempted to make a run at P4P #1 in his absence was just going to be dismissed when he returned...No one told him to fight an undersized Marquez and not even come in on weight...No one told him to decline to be a defending WW champion and fight DLH at 154 and win only because DLH gassed and stopped jabbing in the 10th.

Most of all Floyd had zero right just as any fighter has zero right to demand a fighter take a certain test that is not required, so because Manny refused he must be on PEDS? Since when is Floyd or any Mayweathers other then Jeffs word good for anything?...

Floyd is not the only fighter that can play head games and Freddie Roach with team Pacquiao played Floyds game better then Floyd...Boo Hoo sorry Floyd :eek:....Floyd wants the fight so bad he would give a nut for it but now if he made the fight without the testing he would be a public fool!!!! and he knows it...

Floyd cares more about his 0 then his own family....If Floyd is that confident then Floyd can beat Manny on PEDS or not...Hell I think I heard around the game that Maqnny would agree to the test not only the 2 weeks before the fight as a way to come into a compromise but again right after the bout...

If Floyd lost and Manny tested positive the decision would be reversed and he would keep his 0....If he won and Manny tested positive it would boost his accomplishment all the much more....It is a win win for him....Manny doesn't need Floyd Floyd needs Manny....

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by armyash

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Originally Posted by toto

@Armyash
You said :"Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF".
Floyd justified it. He said Manny Used an 8- ounce glove, while Motor Mouth Money May used 10- ounced glove. The dude has sound reasoning here. 10 ounce was much thicker than Manny's 8 Ounce thus Floyds took time to KO Hatton - Mortz

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fair point with the glove size to a point.

but what if pacman wears different gloves to mayweather against mosley then surely it defeats the object of this discussion. judging who is the better fighter when looking at common opponents has to be done on performance only, not everyone on this site will know the size of gloves, boots worn or everything else that must be taken in to consideration.

I get the point you are trying to make though. had mayweather been wearing 8oz gloves would he have blasted hatton out too? possibly, but then you have to look at both their performances against JMM again. What size gloves were they each wearing? did this affect pacs performance was he wearing different gloves to mayweather?

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Impossible. Floyd would have shattered his fragile hands.

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really not the point. I'm saying if we take in to account the gloves being worn against a common opponent in one fight then will have to do it in every fight against a common opponent and that's not really practical. analyzing the fights too deep. performance is all we should be looking at not all the other factors, gloves etc. for every factor you add in to the equation you have to look at other areas of the fight too.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by toto

@Armyash
You said :"Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF".
Floyd justified it. He said Manny Used an 8- ounce glove, while Motor Mouth Money May used 10- ounced glove. The dude has sound reasoning here. 10 ounce was much thicker than Manny's 8 Ounce thus Floyds took time to KO Hatton - Mortz

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Your kidding with that comment I hope?

First off Floyd could have used 8oz gloves if he chose to he did not that is his problem. In truth the difference between 8 and 10oz gloves do not hold as much of a difference as you think. Even if you put that aside Floyd was not landing the volume of punches that Manny was and Floyd did not set the pace Manny set when each faced Hatton...

Floyd is a counter puncher Manny is an aggressive fighter, Floyd waits for his man to come to him Manny attacks and does not stop, there is no time to breathe with Manny....In Clotteys own words ( yes Clottey is not known for his output we know this nor is he an overly fast fighter with his hands but he is world class and no walk over for anyone) he could not open up long enough to get off because anytime he did Manny tagged him too many times keeping him on defense, he also said even when he landed and knew the punches had meaning as some moved Manny backwards Manny did not retreat he came forward twice as hard throwing punches....You can't defend what you can not see....

Your post up there while a decent attempt to make a point has way too many holes in it, you are coming across more as a fan of Floyds then a fan of boxing....

Manny does not need to stop Mosley to prove he is better and he does not need to prove anything to Mayweather....Like it or not Manny is the man right now and the only way for Floyd to take it away from him is to fight him and beat him if he wont even step in the ring what does that say about Floyd? Because the other guys out there are not going on about the PED shit....Floyd sunk to new levels with the whole Manny thing, mud slinging did not work out he did not bait Manny and Manny will not get rattled...Shit Floyd even went on to make fun of Manny's ethnic heritage....No one told Floyd to retire, fight the most vunerable names with credibility or to take a so called retirement.....He chose to he thought boxing was going to stop because he was not around, he thought who ever attempted to make a run at P4P #1 in his absence was just going to be dismissed when he returned...No one told him to fight an undersized Marquez and not even come in on weight...No one told him to decline to be a defending WW champion and fight DLH at 154 and win only because DLH gassed and stopped jabbing in the 10th.

Most of all Floyd had zero right just as any fighter has zero right to demand a fighter take a certain test that is not required, so because Manny refused he must be on PEDS? Since when is Floyd or any Mayweathers other then Jeffs word good for anything?...

Floyd is not the only fighter that can play head games and Freddie Roach with team Pacquiao played Floyds game better then Floyd...Boo Hoo sorry Floyd :eek:....Floyd wants the fight so bad he would give a nut for it but now if he made the fight without the testing he would be a public fool!!!! and he knows it...

Floyd cares more about his 0 then his own family....If Floyd is that confident then Floyd can beat Manny on PEDS or not...Hell I think I heard around the game that Maqnny would agree to the test not only the 2 weeks before the fight as a way to come into a compromise but again right after the bout...

If Floyd lost and Manny tested positive the decision would be reversed and he would keep his 0....If he won and Manny tested positive it would boost his accomplishment all the much more....It is a win win for him....Manny doesn't need Floyd Floyd needs Manny....

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good post.

right now the way things are looking i agree floyd needs manny but long term the way they will be viewed 30 yrs from now they will both be criticised for not fighting each other. they will both be recognised as greats but they will damage their legacies if they dont put all the BS to 1 side and get it on.

also agree on your comments to toto, too many holes in that argument.

Thats hugger logic ;D Maybe Floyd just softened up Oscar, Hatton, and Mosley so he looks spectacular :D

Knockouts are overrated at times and fact is though Manny gets props and respect because, well, he's the one actually fighting he'll be meeting Mosley after Mayweather shut him out. I think as long as Pac beats him up nicely...and doesn't get shaken to his heels in round 2...he should get equal acclaim. Its how he fights him and wins, yet to be seen. Think Manny will put himself inside of Mosleys still viable wheel house and can't resist a shoot out...thats why It wouldn't shock me to see Manny on his ass for a moment before its all said and done.

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Originally Posted by armyash

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by toto

@Armyash
You said :"Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF".
Floyd justified it. He said Manny Used an 8- ounce glove, while Motor Mouth Money May used 10- ounced glove. The dude has sound reasoning here. 10 ounce was much thicker than Manny's 8 Ounce thus Floyds took time to KO Hatton - Mortz

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Your kidding with that comment I hope?

First off Floyd could have used 8oz gloves if he chose to he did not that is his problem. In truth the difference between 8 and 10oz gloves do not hold as much of a difference as you think. Even if you put that aside Floyd was not landing the volume of punches that Manny was and Floyd did not set the pace Manny set when each faced Hatton...

Floyd is a counter puncher Manny is an aggressive fighter, Floyd waits for his man to come to him Manny attacks and does not stop, there is no time to breathe with Manny....In Clotteys own words ( yes Clottey is not known for his output we know this nor is he an overly fast fighter with his hands but he is world class and no walk over for anyone) he could not open up long enough to get off because anytime he did Manny tagged him too many times keeping him on defense, he also said even when he landed and knew the punches had meaning as some moved Manny backwards Manny did not retreat he came forward twice as hard throwing punches....You can't defend what you can not see....

Your post up there while a decent attempt to make a point has way too many holes in it, you are coming across more as a fan of Floyds then a fan of boxing....

Manny does not need to stop Mosley to prove he is better and he does not need to prove anything to Mayweather....Like it or not Manny is the man right now and the only way for Floyd to take it away from him is to fight him and beat him if he wont even step in the ring what does that say about Floyd? Because the other guys out there are not going on about the PED shit....Floyd sunk to new levels with the whole Manny thing, mud slinging did not work out he did not bait Manny and Manny will not get rattled...Shit Floyd even went on to make fun of Manny's ethnic heritage....No one told Floyd to retire, fight the most vunerable names with credibility or to take a so called retirement.....He chose to he thought boxing was going to stop because he was not around, he thought who ever attempted to make a run at P4P #1 in his absence was just going to be dismissed when he returned...No one told him to fight an undersized Marquez and not even come in on weight...No one told him to decline to be a defending WW champion and fight DLH at 154 and win only because DLH gassed and stopped jabbing in the 10th.

Most of all Floyd had zero right just as any fighter has zero right to demand a fighter take a certain test that is not required, so because Manny refused he must be on PEDS? Since when is Floyd or any Mayweathers other then Jeffs word good for anything?...

Floyd is not the only fighter that can play head games and Freddie Roach with team Pacquiao played Floyds game better then Floyd...Boo Hoo sorry Floyd :eek:....Floyd wants the fight so bad he would give a nut for it but now if he made the fight without the testing he would be a public fool!!!! and he knows it...

Floyd cares more about his 0 then his own family....If Floyd is that confident then Floyd can beat Manny on PEDS or not...Hell I think I heard around the game that Maqnny would agree to the test not only the 2 weeks before the fight as a way to come into a compromise but again right after the bout...

If Floyd lost and Manny tested positive the decision would be reversed and he would keep his 0....If he won and Manny tested positive it would boost his accomplishment all the much more....It is a win win for him....Manny doesn't need Floyd Floyd needs Manny....

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good post.

right now the way things are looking i agree floyd needs manny but long term the way they will be viewed 30 yrs from now they will both be criticised for not fighting each other. they will both be recognised as greats but they will damage their legacies if they dont put all the BS to 1 side and get it on.

also agree on your comments to toto, too many holes in that argument.

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I agree down the road they will both be linked to one another due to this...Make no mistakes about it either man could have done more to make the fight happen so it is not a one sided deal when it comes to fault with these guys....I was going with the current situation....Who knows with thew way Manny has been getting wrapped up with all the outside distractions these last few fights during training camps the tables can turn and it will be Manny who needs Floyd.....Boxing is crazy that way..

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Thats hugger logic ;D Maybe Floyd just softened up Oscar, Hatton, and Mosley so he looks spectacular :D

Knockouts are overrated at times and fact is though Manny gets props and respect because, well, he's the one actually fighting he'll be meeting Mosley after Mayweather shut him out. I think as long as Pac beats him up nicely...and doesn't get shaken to his heels in round 2...he should get equal acclaim. Its how he fights him and wins, yet to be seen. Think Manny will put himself inside of Mosleys still viable wheel house and can't resist a shoot out...thats why It wouldn't shock me to see Manny on his ass for a moment before its all said and done.

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I agree Manny could see the Canvas if Shane catches him....We all know that Manny can not resist getting into it and if he gets hit hard he almost like there is no impulse control has to come back instaed of trying to recoupe......I think it might be a better fight then many think it will

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by toto

@Armyash
You said :"Pac demolished hatton in quick time but it took PBF".
Floyd justified it. He said Manny Used an 8- ounce glove, while Motor Mouth Money May used 10- ounced glove. The dude has sound reasoning here. 10 ounce was much thicker than Manny's 8 Ounce thus Floyds took time to KO Hatton - Mortz

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Your kidding with that comment I hope?

First off Floyd could have used 8oz gloves if he chose to he did not that is his problem. In truth the difference between 8 and 10oz gloves do not hold as much of a difference as you think. Even if you put that aside Floyd was not landing the volume of punches that Manny was and Floyd did not set the pace Manny set when each faced Hatton...

Floyd is a counter puncher Manny is an aggressive fighter, Floyd waits for his man to come to him Manny attacks and does not stop, there is no time to breathe with Manny....In Clotteys own words ( yes Clottey is not known for his output we know this nor is he an overly fast fighter with his hands but he is world class and no walk over for anyone) he could not open up long enough to get off because anytime he did Manny tagged him too many times keeping him on defense, he also said even when he landed and knew the punches had meaning as some moved Manny backwards Manny did not retreat he came forward twice as hard throwing punches....You can't defend what you can not see....

Your post up there while a decent attempt to make a point has way too many holes in it, you are coming across more as a fan of Floyds then a fan of boxing....

Manny does not need to stop Mosley to prove he is better and he does not need to prove anything to Mayweather....Like it or not Manny is the man right now and the only way for Floyd to take it away from him is to fight him and beat him if he wont even step in the ring what does that say about Floyd? Because the other guys out there are not going on about the PED shit....Floyd sunk to new levels with the whole Manny thing, mud slinging did not work out he did not bait Manny and Manny will not get rattled...Shit Floyd even went on to make fun of Manny's ethnic heritage....No one told Floyd to retire, fight the most vunerable names with credibility or to take a so called retirement.....He chose to he thought boxing was going to stop because he was not around, he thought who ever attempted to make a run at P4P #1 in his absence was just going to be dismissed when he returned...No one told him to fight an undersized Marquez and not even come in on weight...No one told him to decline to be a defending WW champion and fight DLH at 154 and win only because DLH gassed and stopped jabbing in the 10th.

Most of all Floyd had zero right just as any fighter has zero right to demand a fighter take a certain test that is not required, so because Manny refused he must be on PEDS? Since when is Floyd or any Mayweathers other then Jeffs word good for anything?...

Floyd is not the only fighter that can play head games and Freddie Roach with team Pacquiao played Floyds game better then Floyd...Boo Hoo sorry Floyd :eek:....Floyd wants the fight so bad he would give a nut for it but now if he made the fight without the testing he would be a public fool!!!! and he knows it...

Floyd cares more about his 0 then his own family....If Floyd is that confident then Floyd can beat Manny on PEDS or not...Hell I think I heard around the game that Maqnny would agree to the test not only the 2 weeks before the fight as a way to come into a compromise but again right after the bout...

If Floyd lost and Manny tested positive the decision would be reversed and he would keep his 0....If he won and Manny tested positive it would boost his accomplishment all the much more....It is a win win for him....Manny doesn't need Floyd Floyd needs Manny....

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Daxx I disagree that the only way for Floyd to take the mantle from Manny is to beat him in the ring. Floyd was "the man" before Manny, and Pacquiao never beat him in the ring to become top dog. To become P4P #1, he went about things his own way. If Floyd were to say jump up and beat Sergio Martinez, I think you'd be hard pushed to argue that their positions in the P4P list would be debatable.

i dont reckon the outcome of this fight makes a difference to who is better

even if manny batters him in 3 it doesnt mean he would beat floyd

i think floyd is the better fighter, he hasnt ever come anywhere near losing

since being at the top manny has been run very close twice by marquez (should have lost both in my opinion) and lost to moralez

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Originally Posted by erics44

i dont reckon the outcome of this fight makes a difference to who is better

even if manny batters him in 3 it doesnt mean he would beat floyd

i think floyd is the better fighter, he hasnt ever come anywhere near losing

since being at the top manny has been run very close twice by marquez (should have lost both in my opinion) and lost to moralez

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Manny is on top!!! But is he comfortable on top? He totally disrepsected Margarito by not preparing as hard as he usually do against an opponent(at least that's what was said on 24/7). Let him half-way prepare for Shane or underestimate him. Many Pacnuts is going to need some tissue.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

You write well for a new guy. By the way... I really liked your song "Africa" many years ago.

;D

Having said that, I think your logic suffers a little on a few counts. First of all... IMO Pac has nothing, nyet, nada, to prove to Pretty Boy. On the contrary... the ball is firmly in Pretty Boy's court, except that he won't be doing any dribbling any time soon, except in the slammer. Maybe there he'll find a captive audience who will believe his claims to be the world's p4p, although he's done nothing to deserve it in the last few years. He beat a grossly undersized JMM (not everyone can jump several weight classes like Pac has done), and then beat an unexplicably shy and suddenly old-looking Shane Mosley. (Why he didn't capitalize on that huge right that rocked Pretty Boy early on, I'll never know).

Meanwhile, Pac has defied all odds by beating bigger and stronger men. Say what you will about Pac's opponents. But BEFORE the fights, you'd be hard pressed to find fans with conviction who would've predicted the ease with which Pac dispatched those opponents. It's not Pac's fault that Clottey shamefully decided to rob boxing fans of their money by going into a shell and not fighting that night. And it's not Pac's fault that Cotto came in with a TOTALLY wrong gameplan against him, going toe-to-toe and throwing 1 punch for every 5 of Pac's. It's easy to pick fights apart after they're done. It's called "Monday morning quarterbacking".

But back to your main point. Pac needs to do NOTHING to prove he's better than Mayweather. He already has. It's Pretty Boy who needs to do everything in his power to get that fight and shut Pac's fans up. But that's gonna be a bit difficult to do from his jail cell. So all we're left with are theories and conjectures.

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How has Manny proved he was better than Mayweather? He hasn't at all. That's why almost everyone who boxes believes Floyd would beat him. Floyd is way more well rounded, and a adapts better during a fight. Don't get it twisted, Marquez looked poor, and Mosley old because Mayweather made them look that way. He picked Marquez apart, and feinted and peppered Mosley into compliance. You will see on May 7, that Mosley will put up a valiant effort against Pacquiao. I don't think he will win, but it will be a lot more competitive than Mayweather-Mosley.

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

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Originally Posted by erics44

i dont reckon the outcome of this fight makes a difference to who is better

even if manny batters him in 3 it doesnt mean he would beat floyd

i think floyd is the better fighter, he hasnt ever come anywhere near losing

since being at the top manny has been run very close twice by marquez (should have lost both in my opinion) and lost to moralez

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Manny is on top!!! But is he comfortable on top? He totally disrepsected Margarito by not preparing as hard as he usually do against an opponent(at least that's what was said on 24/7). Let him half-way prepare for Shane or underestimate him. Many Pacnuts is going to need some tissue.

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You still believe 24/7?! They will say anything to sell a fight. I won't be surprised if they say that Manny did not even prepare at all in his fight with Shane.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

You write well for a new guy. By the way... I really liked your song "Africa" many years ago.

;D

Having said that, I think your logic suffers a little on a few counts. First of all... IMO Pac has nothing, nyet, nada, to prove to Pretty Boy. On the contrary... the ball is firmly in Pretty Boy's court, except that he won't be doing any dribbling any time soon, except in the slammer. Maybe there he'll find a captive audience who will believe his claims to be the world's p4p, although he's done nothing to deserve it in the last few years. He beat a grossly undersized JMM (not everyone can jump several weight classes like Pac has done), and then beat an unexplicably shy and suddenly old-looking Shane Mosley. (Why he didn't capitalize on that huge right that rocked Pretty Boy early on, I'll never know).

Meanwhile, Pac has defied all odds by beating bigger and stronger men. Say what you will about Pac's opponents. But BEFORE the fights, you'd be hard pressed to find fans with conviction who would've predicted the ease with which Pac dispatched those opponents. It's not Pac's fault that Clottey shamefully decided to rob boxing fans of their money by going into a shell and not fighting that night. And it's not Pac's fault that Cotto came in with a TOTALLY wrong gameplan against him, going toe-to-toe and throwing 1 punch for every 5 of Pac's. It's easy to pick fights apart after they're done. It's called "Monday morning quarterbacking".

But back to your main point. Pac needs to do NOTHING to prove he's better than Mayweather. He already has. It's Pretty Boy who needs to do everything in his power to get that fight and shut Pac's fans up. But that's gonna be a bit difficult to do from his jail cell. So all we're left with are theories and conjectures.

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How has Manny proved he was better than Mayweather? He hasn't at all. That's why almost everyone who boxes believes Floyd would beat him. Floyd is way more well rounded, and a adapts better during a fight. Don't get it twisted, Marquez looked poor, and Mosley old because Mayweather made them look that way. He picked Marquez apart, and feinted and peppered Mosley into compliance. You will see on May 7, that Mosley will put up a valiant effort against Pacquiao. I don't think he will win, but it will be a lot more competitive than Mayweather-Mosley.

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Nobody can really be sure as to who is better between Pacquiao and Mayweather until they fight in the ring. It may be true that Floyd would beat Manny but what people would remember several years from now is what happened in their last negotiation, that Floyd was the reason that fight did not happen. If all that happened is the first negotiation, Manny would have gotten the blame.

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Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

You write well for a new guy. By the way... I really liked your song "Africa" many years ago.

;D

Having said that, I think your logic suffers a little on a few counts. First of all... IMO Pac has nothing, nyet, nada, to prove to Pretty Boy. On the contrary... the ball is firmly in Pretty Boy's court, except that he won't be doing any dribbling any time soon, except in the slammer. Maybe there he'll find a captive audience who will believe his claims to be the world's p4p, although he's done nothing to deserve it in the last few years. He beat a grossly undersized JMM (not everyone can jump several weight classes like Pac has done), and then beat an unexplicably shy and suddenly old-looking Shane Mosley. (Why he didn't capitalize on that huge right that rocked Pretty Boy early on, I'll never know).

Meanwhile, Pac has defied all odds by beating bigger and stronger men. Say what you will about Pac's opponents. But BEFORE the fights, you'd be hard pressed to find fans with conviction who would've predicted the ease with which Pac dispatched those opponents. It's not Pac's fault that Clottey shamefully decided to rob boxing fans of their money by going into a shell and not fighting that night. And it's not Pac's fault that Cotto came in with a TOTALLY wrong gameplan against him, going toe-to-toe and throwing 1 punch for every 5 of Pac's. It's easy to pick fights apart after they're done. It's called "Monday morning quarterbacking".

But back to your main point. Pac needs to do NOTHING to prove he's better than Mayweather. He already has. It's Pretty Boy who needs to do everything in his power to get that fight and shut Pac's fans up. But that's gonna be a bit difficult to do from his jail cell. So all we're left with are theories and conjectures.

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How has Manny proved he was better than Mayweather? He hasn't at all. That's why almost everyone who boxes believes Floyd would beat him. Floyd is way more well rounded, and a adapts better during a fight. Don't get it twisted, Marquez looked poor, and Mosley old because Mayweather made them look that way. He picked Marquez apart, and feinted and peppered Mosley into compliance. You will see on May 7, that Mosley will put up a valiant effort against Pacquiao. I don't think he will win, but it will be a lot more competitive than Mayweather-Mosley.

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Nobody can really be sure as to who is better between Pacquiao and Mayweather until they fight in the ring. It may be true that Floyd would beat Manny but what people would remember several years from now is what happened in their last negotiation, that Floyd was the reason that fight did not happen. If all that happened is the first negotiation, Manny would have gotten the blame.

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Not true, people will remember that they were both at fault and the thing that actually stands out more is that one of them refused to do a drugs test. That has hurt Pac more than Floyd. How can you argue against someone looking for comprehensive drug coverage and the other fighter sitting back saying "stop hurting my pride, no fight". That looks far worse. The fight would likely have happened, but Manny couldn't deal with it in the first place. That's what I remember above all else right now.

Manny was the one looking for that fight and he shrugged his shoulder. Floyd was the top dog and to agree would have been the correct way to continue.

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Originally Posted by miles

Not true, people will remember that they were both at fault and the thing that actually stands out more is that one of them refused to do a drugs test.

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You keep on perpetuating this misconception. Pacquiao agrees to the drug test that is already in place, what he did not agree to is the drug test under Mayweather's terms. But Manny had finally agreed to the drug test as per Floyd's terms in the second negotiation and what happened?

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That has hurt Pac more than Floyd.

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No, it hasn't. The Pacquiao-Clottey fight is considered a success in terms of arena attendance & PPV buys even when Manny was against someone who is not a crowd drawer. So is the Pacquiao-Margarito fight considering that a number of posters here even advocated for a boycott.

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How can you argue against someone looking for comprehensive drug coverage and the other fighter sitting back saying "stop hurting my pride, no fight".

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This is highly debatable. A number of people had argued in favor of Pacquiao for not agreeing to Mayweather's terms so there is no point in me bringing this up again.

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The fight would likely have happened, but Manny couldn't deal with it in the first place. That's what I remember above all else right now.

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So, you think it's unreasonable for Manny to refuse the fight in the first negotiation because of terms that is being introduced by Floyd for the first time but it's alright for Floyd to decline the fight in the second negotiation so that he can go on vacation? Wasn't he just on a long vacation before he fought Marquez?

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Manny was the one looking for that fight and he shrugged his shoulder. Floyd was the top dog and to agree would have been the correct way to continue.

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Manny was the top dog then (and still is now). Didn't Floyd come back from his retirement to reclaim the number 1 spot? And who was on the number 1 spot then? Do you think he came back just to beat up an overweight opponent? Read DaxxKahn's comment above so that you will be enlightened.