Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Oscar De La Hoya - Boxer
Okay so firstly, the reason why I wanted to make this thread was to get some feed back from you guys on how you see Oscar now in your preception of him when he fought Floyd Mayweather back in 2007 (4 YEARS AGO ALREADY!! :o)
To explain my intentions in a bit more detail; I wanted to really understand, or gain a new understanding of what kind of condition Oscar was in for this particular fight. To be frank, just how much down the slide had Oscar gone by 2007. (...still can't believe that was 4 years ago man! :vd:)
My current (or should I say recent) understanding was that the Forbes and Pacquiao fights showed that Oscar was really slipping and thus the fight with Floyd showed that Floyd actually struggled against a fairly shot fighter.
I'll be honest, the overwhelming reason why I thought about starting this conversation was because of the 'Floyd's Greatest Win Thread'.
I wanted to 'register' that fight in particular because my understanding at the time of the fight was that Floyd was facing such a relatively big guy, who was still pretty 'elite' as far as rankings go and that his chances were much slimmer than they had been previously. It was supposed to and proved to be a pretty competitive, close(ish) fight. That made me totally believe that Floyd was a superhuman talent that was completely invincible.
However, Oscars subsequent fights painted a different picture.
I just wanted to revisit the Boxrec page Oscar De La Hoya - Boxer where you can see that his last two fights were about him as a Weltwerweight, at an advanced age and so maybe the credit that Floyd Deserves is somewhat desaturated due to Oscars poor decision to weight drain himself in his last two fights?
Waddya reckon?
I mean to be fair, no one disputes that although Oscar instigated a fight with Pacquiao at that weight, he clearly had no business fighting there.
Now I sincerely apologies for giving a thread about Oscar De La Hoya's final career faze a Mayweather/ Pacquiao undercurrent but I assume that it was inevitable and I must make clear that it isn't the point of this thread.
The point of this thread is that I wanted to develop my understanding of Oscars performance (and thus Floyd's performance) back in 2007 (Fuckin FOUR years gone by already GOD DAMIT! :mad: ) and how his subsequent fights impacted on that fight. if at all?
Kappish :confused:
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
I don't think Oscar was shot when he fought Floyd at all. I think more than anything he wasn't very sharp due to only fighting twice since 2004. After losing to BHop he didn't fight for almost 2 years when he came back vs Mayorga. Right after that he went and fought the top fighter in the world. It was dumb on his part. The bigger mistake he made was coming down to fight Pacman at 142lb. He already lost the fight before he entered the ring. Oscar hadn't been that light since 1997!!!
I don't believe the argument that Pacman fought a "more shot" Oscar than Floyd did. It was only a year and a half later and Oscar fought once. Oscar was a round away from getting the node vs Floyd and Pacman dominated de la Hoya. Mayweather fought him at a resonable weight for Oscar but that's about it. Having seen what Manny has been doing to larger fighter later I think he still dominates Oscar if they fought at 150 (like Floyd did) or even 154.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
I honestly thought Oscar had a real good shot of winning. He was the one fighting at his comfortable weight. I thought Oscar would impose his power and control Floyd with his jab.
Looking back at his last couple of fights prior to Floyd, he was still on top of his game. Knocking out Mayorga with ease was credible IMO. Mayorga took bombs from everyone he fought before and after Oscar but no one made it look as easy as he did. I thought his campaign at 160 had nothing to do with his skills diminishing, but rather him fighting at a weight he should not be competing in. Hopkins was way too big and Sturm should've won the fight considering how out of shape Oscar was in to make weight.
Prior to that, his second fight with Mosley was a great one (I thought Oscar won), he KOed Campas, then arguably his best victory against Vargas came before that. I only really took the fact that he was getting older to be his disadvantage against Floyd.
In conclusion, I thought Oscar vs Floyd was a real fight. I thought his fight with Forbes was the first fight where you saw him on the slide. Forbes isn't much of a puncher but he marked up Oscar's face not landing anything all that impressive.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
Looking back at his last couple of fights prior to Floyd, he was still on top of his game. Knocking out Mayorga with ease was credible IMO. Mayorga took bombs from everyone he fought before and after Oscar but no one made it look as easy as he did.
You know, I meant to touch on how Oscars performance matched up to how Cotto handled Mayorga. I completely agree with you. Overall, I think Oscar was in better shape, was a more capable and a more competent fighter back then, than Cotto is now.
I wonder who would win in a fight between Amir Khan & Miguel Cotto? :D
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
Looking back at his last couple of fights prior to Floyd, he was still on top of his game. Knocking out Mayorga with ease was credible IMO. Mayorga took bombs from everyone he fought before and after Oscar but no one made it look as easy as he did.
You know, I meant to touch on how Oscars performance matched up to how Cotto handled Mayorga. I completely agree with you. Overall, I think Oscar was in better shape, was a more capable and a more competent fighter back then, than Cotto is now.
I wonder who would win in a fight between Amir Khan & Miguel Cotto? :D
That would be one hell of a fight IMO. The Emanuel Steward version of Cotto would not win IMO. Khan would use his height and reach to out jab Cotto. Now if we're talking about the Evangelista Cotto version, I give Miguel a great chance. Cotto will have to come in and pressure Khan. The Cotto of old really knew how to cut a ring off and when he got you there, he put punches together as good as anyone in the game. I actually love the idea of this fight. Hopefully Khan can move up and they can have a catchweight fight...
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
I honestly thought Oscar had a real good shot of winning. He was the one fighting at his comfortable weight. I thought Oscar would impose his power and control Floyd with his jab.
Looking back at his last couple of fights prior to Floyd, he was still on top of his game. Knocking out Mayorga with ease was credible IMO. Mayorga took bombs from everyone he fought before and after Oscar but no one made it look as easy as he did. I thought his campaign at 160 had nothing to do with his skills diminishing, but rather him fighting at a weight he should not be competing in. Hopkins was way too big and Sturm should've won the fight considering how out of shape Oscar was in to make weight.
Prior to that, his second fight with Mosley was a great one (I thought Oscar won), he KOed Campas, then arguably his best victory against Vargas came before that. I only really took the fact that he was getting older to be his disadvantage against Floyd.
In conclusion, I thought Oscar vs Floyd was a real fight. I thought his fight with Forbes was the first fight where you saw him on the slide. Forbes isn't much of a puncher but he marked up Oscar's face not landing anything all that impressive.
Yea good post :thumb:
Gotta agree with what ya put here.
I was one that belived the fight was a draw as I scored it on the night, Oscar had the first half and Floyd took over 2nd half. At the time the fight was signed, I was firmly under the impression Oscar would win due to his size and speed. As In alot of previous fights Oscar faded in the Championship rounds, which gave Floyd chance to get back into the fight, and subsequently take the decision.
In regards to Oscar being his greatest victory, the is a case ya could make for it, Oscar one day will no doubt be a HOF. Will many other of Floyds opponents achieve that status ? who knows, but for me Oscar certainly will. Main reason I went with Hatton, well, part bias with nationality, and him being a fighter I followed since the start of his career. Added he was unbeaten at the time, and held titles at 2 weight divisions lead to my decision.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
i think that this links to the floyds resume thread too
it may not have been oscar at his 100% best but it was definately a very very good oscar
from what i read on here everyone that floyd has fought was on the slide or at the wrong weight or whatever
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
from what i read on here everyone that floyd has fought was on the slide or at the wrong weight or whatever
To be fair that gets said about every unbeaten fighter, untill of course they get beat. Hatton had the same accusations levelled at him before the Floyd loss. Then as soon as he did lose, he then was a shot fighter on the slide.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mattyhitman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
from what i read on here everyone that floyd has fought was on the slide or at the wrong weight or whatever
To be fair that gets said about every unbeaten fighter, untill of course they get beat. Hatton had the same accusations levelled at him before the Floyd loss. Then as soon as he did lose, he then was a shot fighter on the slide.
i have to say floyds win over hatton was flawed coz of the ref, but thats the only one im gonna complain about
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Oscar wasnt in his prime when he fought Floyd but he was still a very good fight and would of beaten most fighters at that weight at the time.The weight which they had the fight at helped De la hoya ment he didnt have to struggle to make weight.
I gave the fight to Floyd by 1 or 2 rounds. I think the way to beat Floyd imo is you must be quick on your feet and have a good jab to move in behind to get on the inside and throw lots of punches at chest and body. Which Oscar did most of that for 5 rounds then stopped throwing his jab which aloud aloud Floyd into the fight.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
You must remember Floyd gave all concessions to ODH, weight, gloves etc and was the under dog in many people eyes with Hindsight it looks like a poor victory but at that time it was one of Floyd's greatest achievements.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
You must remember Floyd gave all concessions to ODH, weight, gloves etc and was the under dog in many people eyes with Hindsight it looks like a poor victory but at that time it was one of Floyd's greatest achievements.
Good point. Oscar got the lions share of the purse too, I think.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
You must remember Floyd gave all concessions to ODH, weight, gloves etc and was the under dog in many people eyes with Hindsight it looks like a poor victory but at that time it was one of Floyd's greatest achievements.
Good point. Oscar got the lions share of the purse too, I think.
agree with all this. also, this is the fight where floyd started having the diva-persona.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
A serious question I still have with that fight, is why ODLH, who was seriously controlling that fight and actually had the style to beat Floyd, suddenly threw out his winning formula three quarters through the fight, and let Floyd come over the top of him...
Shot or not, or on the slide, skill wise he had the goods to win that fight... If he had let his hands go more, and kept his jab going until the end of the fight, he would have won... I don't find that to be Floyd's best win because DLH either could not possibly fight at what he was capable of previously (otherwise he would have won) OR, he couldn't fight the end of the fight at the same standard he started it at (otherwise he would have won)...
Floyd fought a DLH who was running at 60%....
That much I am sure of....
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
A serious question I still have with that fight, is why ODLH, who was seriously controlling that fight and actually had the style to beat Floyd, suddenly threw out his winning formula three quarters through the fight, and let Floyd come over the top of him...
Shot or not, or on the slide, skill wise he had the goods to win that fight... If he had let his hands go more, and kept his jab going until the end of the fight, he would have won... I don't find that to be Floyd's best win because DLH either could not possibly fight at what he was capable of previously (otherwise he would have won) OR, he couldn't fight the end of the fight at the same standard he started it at (otherwise he would have won)...
Floyd fought a DLH who was running at 60%....
That much I am sure of....
I think you are right, he did tire out or always conscious of tiring slowed down. Roach also found out that he was not the same fighter he once was in the training camp and allowed Pac to fight him for that reason.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
he stopped using his winning formula(i.e. jab) cause he was getting hit back by a right cross(i don't remember, need to watch it again)
and is this true, i read it somewhere that ODLH is coming out of retirement:confused:
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
I had Oscar 3-3 going into this fight. And frankly thought Sturm 'beat' him more convincingly then Mayweather. I dont think he was peak at all but a worthy win for Floyd....just happy they didn't have much talked about rematch.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erik_corrales
he stopped using his winning formula(i.e. jab) cause he was getting hit back by a right cross(i don't remember, need to watch it again)
and is this true, i read it somewhere that ODLH is coming out of retirement:confused:
Actually I do remember Floyd kept on countering him with the right, that's why he stopped throwing the jab, I haven;t seen it since live.
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erik_corrales
he stopped using his winning formula(i.e. jab) cause he was getting hit back by a right cross(i don't remember, need to watch it again)
and is this true, i read it somewhere that ODLH is coming out of retirement:confused:
Actually I do remember Floyd kept on countering him with the right, that's why he stopped throwing the jab, I haven;t seen it since live.
That's interesting, I'm going to have to watch the fight again as my impression of it was that Oscar just let up with what was working, which let Floyd soon start to land more.... But could be your way as well...
Re: Perspective/ Hindsight: Oscar De La Hoya V Floyd Mayweather
Floyd did land a right cross counter that sunk ODH legs which was surprising as ODH has a good chin and I thought Floyd was not a big puncher but he did time it well. I think it was about round 8ish.
