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Opinion from a "Pactard"
For years Manny has been accused of fighting come forward aggressive fighters who wanted to trade shots with Manny fighting toe to toe, the often result they're getting their asses ktfo. Last night we have a bigger fighter with equally fast hands, more power and granite chin dropped on his back and decided to counter punch instead of trading with PAC, admittedly after the fight Shane said if he threw more punches and traded might get himself kayoed. Now with that mentality we STILL COMPLAIN of the result, is not that hypocritic? I do believe that if Shane did trade with Manny he would get ktfo.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Dont let these fools get to you man. They will discredit pac no matter what.
Shane was honest and thats why many have so much respect for him.
Pac didn't look like he was 100% but he still dominated. ;)
Pac may be slowing down and age may also be catching up with him. God knows there no boxer with a schedule like pacs. He lives many life all at the same time but manages to balance it but for how much longer can he do that?
I just hope this fight will give Floyd some balls to fight pac. Hopefully he does believe pac is slowing down and all of the war and busy lifestyle are catching up with Pac.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
My own view isthat Manny is a boxing marvel and most criticism of him is unfounded. Having said that, Shane is a shell of himself and all last night showed me is Father Time might be onto Manny. .
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Dont let these fools get to you man. They will discredit pac no matter what
Pactards discredit Floyd too. Remember when he fought Shane first? Now Pac fights an older Shane and pactards make it sound as if he beat the greatest ever.
It goes both ways for Floyd and Manny unfortunately.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Dont let these fools get to you man. They will discredit pac no matter what
Pactards discredit Floyd too. Remember when he fought Shane first? Now Pac fights an older Shane and pactards make it sound as if he beat the greatest ever.
It goes both ways for Floyd and Manny unfortunately.
Who is saying pac beat the greatest ever? can you post that here for all of us to see?
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Dont let these fools get to you man. They will discredit pac no matter what
Pactards discredit Floyd too. Remember when he fought Shane first? Now Pac fights an older Shane and pactards make it sound as if he beat the greatest ever.
It goes both ways for Floyd and Manny unfortunately.
Who is saying pac beat the greatest ever? can you post that here for all of us to see?
Not the exact words but you guys make it seem as if SSM was a good opponent from past threads. I didn't even give Floyd that much credit for beating SSM. Tell me, do you think Pac deserves credit for beating an aging down-the-hill big name (SSM)?
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Dont let these fools get to you man. They will discredit pac no matter what
Pactards discredit Floyd too. Remember when he fought Shane first? Now Pac fights an older Shane and pactards make it sound as if he beat the greatest ever.
It goes both ways for Floyd and Manny unfortunately.
Who is saying pac beat the greatest ever? can you post that here for all of us to see?
Not the exact words but you guys make it seem as if SSM was a good opponent from past threads. I didn't even give Floyd that much credit for beating SSM. Tell me, do you think Pac deserves credit for beating an aging down-the-hill big name (SSM)?
The win itself does little to add to pacs resume but the fact that pac dropped and had Shane worried of getting ko'ed adds on to pacs ring reputation.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Dont let these fools get to you man. They will discredit pac no matter what
Pactards discredit Floyd too. Remember when he fought Shane first? Now Pac fights an older Shane and pactards make it sound as if he beat the greatest ever.
It goes both ways for Floyd and Manny unfortunately.
Who is saying pac beat the greatest ever? can you post that here for all of us to see?
Not the exact words but you guys make it seem as if SSM was a good opponent from past threads. I didn't even give Floyd that much credit for beating SSM. Tell me, do you think Pac deserves credit for beating an aging down-the-hill big name (SSM)?
The win itself does little to add to pacs resume but the fact that pac dropped and had Shane worried of getting ko'ed adds on to pacs ring reputation.
Yes, an aging down-the-hill guy getting worried of getting ko-ed. I'll give you that, he was on survival mode for 12 rounds. He only threw an effective straight right on round 1 that connected pac to his chin but didn't follow up or throw anything else after that.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Just watched it and I really think Mosleys power play a factor in manny's pace but apart from that Manny won every round and scored a KD... not alot more he could have done considering the massive size difference.
the fight lacked the excitment of a pac fight but you have to put into prespective of what he's doing here ;)
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
It's an OK win for Pacquiao, but not however, very competitive, entertaining, or exciting. I wish the fight had never been made in the first place, Mosley had just come off 2 stinkers with Mayweather and Mora, so his performance was predictable. I thought right from the get go, that there was never a question about Pacquiao winning, but whether or not he stopped Mosley.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Saddo
Just watched it and I really think Mosleys power play a factor in manny's pace but apart from that Manny won every round and scored a KD... not alot more he could have done considering the massive size difference.
the fight lacked the excitment of a pac fight but you have to put into prespective of what he's doing here ;)
nailed it!!!:cool:
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chino
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Dont let these fools get to you man. They will discredit pac no matter what
Pactards discredit Floyd too. Remember when he fought Shane first? Now Pac fights an older Shane and pactards make it sound as if he beat the greatest ever.
It goes both ways for Floyd and Manny unfortunately.
Who is saying pac beat the greatest ever? can you post that here for all of us to see?
Not the exact words but you guys make it seem as if SSM was a good opponent from past threads. I didn't even give Floyd that much credit for beating SSM. Tell me, do you think Pac deserves credit for beating an aging down-the-hill big name (SSM)?
The win itself does little to add to pacs resume but the fact that pac dropped and had Shane worried of getting ko'ed adds on to pacs ring reputation.
Yes, an aging down-the-hill guy getting worried of getting ko-ed. I'll give you that, he was on survival mode for 12 rounds. He only threw an effective straight right on round 1 that connected pac to his chin but didn't follow up or throw anything else after that.
Even at this late stage of Shanes career, who else do you think can drop him like that?
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Its the 2nd stage of Pacquiao's career
1st Stage - He's one dimensional, He'll get schooled by this and that fighter. he'll get totally destroyed by this and that fighter.
2nd Stage - He's roiding and Cherry picking. He cherry picked this and that fighter because they are slow and 20lbs heavier than him. He only fights weight drained and shot fighters.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
haha, man it's kinda sad that ya'll need to console each other after your boy won.
Anywho, SSM blew it as expected huffin, puffin gun shy.
I don't hold what happened in the ropes against Pac at all, he had an unwilling dance partner. The choice of opponent it must be said was a waste of time. Pac has done amazing things in his time feats unparalleled by anyone else in the history of boxing, THIS fight however had nothing to do with that.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.
I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.
Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.
The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.
The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.
I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.
Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.
The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.
The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...
A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.
Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.
See my post above yours.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.
I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.
Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.
The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.
The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...
A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.
Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.
I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.
Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
It's not just Manny but Floyd as well in that the bar is set extremely high. Take Sergio Martinez. People were saying he's the new and real top fighter in the sport not Manny and Floyd. And they were defending Martinez possibly fighting Ishida, a C level fighter that is a journeyman that defeated a hot prospect. Then the fight with Sergei Dzinziruk who was a 154 pound fighter was considered to be a great fight against elite comp not like the 2 cherry picking frauds.
Do you know the kind of shit Mayweather and Pac would get for fighting say a Rafal Jackiewicz
or fighting Tim Bradley who's a career 140 pound fighter?
I rest my case.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.
See my post above yours.
[Channeling Emily Latella] Oh, that's very different...never mind :)
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It's not just Manny but Floyd as well in that the bar is set extremely high. Take Sergio Martinez. People were saying he's the new and real top fighter in the sport not Manny and Floyd. And they were defending Martinez possibly fighting Ishida, a C level fighter that is a journeyman that defeated a hot prospect. Then the fight with Sergei Dzinziruk who was a 154 pound fighter was considered to be a great fight against elite comp not like the 2 cherry picking frauds.
Do you know the kind of shit Mayweather and Pac would get for fighting say a Rafal Jackiewicz
or fighting Tim Bradley who's a career 140 pound fighter?
I rest my case.
Its true mate. Martinez and Donaire get no criticism at all. Martinez defends his 160 lb title against an unranked 154 lb fighter and at a catchweight and not a word of criticism from anyone.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.
I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.
Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.
The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.
The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...
A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.
Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.
I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.
Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?
Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.
Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.
I didnt criticise the fight read my post again. I said Casamayor was as shot as Mosley. He looked dreadful against Corrales, who himself was finished and he got beat by Cruz almost as one sidedly as Floyd beat Shane. He beat Katsidis but had to go through hell to do it and he's looked bad in every fight other than against Marquez since.
He's probably more shot then Shane, its just Shane fought the two best fighters in the world.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It's not just Manny but Floyd as well in that the bar is set extremely high. Take Sergio Martinez. People were saying he's the new and real top fighter in the sport not Manny and Floyd. And they were defending Martinez possibly fighting Ishida, a C level fighter that is a journeyman that defeated a hot prospect. Then the fight with Sergei Dzinziruk who was a 154 pound fighter was considered to be a great fight against elite comp not like the 2 cherry picking frauds.
Do you know the kind of shit Mayweather and Pac would get for fighting say a Rafal Jackiewicz
or fighting Tim Bradley who's a career 140 pound fighter?
I rest my case.
Let's reopen that one for a second. Sergio is stuck because he has ZERO good choices. Just none! I mean that division is as bad as it gets at the moment. I cannot think of a fight that I'd be excited about.
Floyd on the other hand has had, in the last 2-3 years a whole list of reasonable options. Margarito, Cotto, Clottey, Manny, and what has he done? Made JMM move two divisions and fought a badly faded Shane. Manny has in that same period jumped four divisions and taken on a series of highly ranked guys. It ain't the same. You know another guy who has had a whole series of good choices and not done much in the last 2-3 years? Nonito Donaire.
More generally, the lack of depth in the sport at the moment is appalling. How many of the 17 have as many as five quality fighters? 118, 126, 168? Maybe 122 and 135 if you're willing to stretch? Little bit scary.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.
I didnt criticise the fight read my post again. I said Casamayor was as shot as Mosley. He looked dreadful against Corrales, who himself was finished and he got beat by Cruz almost as one sidedly as Floyd beat Shane. He beat Katsidis but had to go through hell to do it and he's looked bad in every fight other than against Marquez since.
He's probably more shot then Shane, its just Shane fought the two best fighters in the world.
Fair enough!
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.
I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.
Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.
The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.
The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...
A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.
Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.
I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.
Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?
Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.
Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.
I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.
Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.
Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.
I didnt criticise the fight read my post again. I said Casamayor was as shot as Mosley. He looked dreadful against Corrales, who himself was finished and he got beat by Cruz almost as one sidedly as Floyd beat Shane. He beat Katsidis but had to go through hell to do it and he's looked bad in every fight other than against Marquez since.
He's probably more shot then Shane, its just Shane fought the two best fighters in the world.
Fair enough!
You're far too agreeable, somebody needs to tell you this is not the Saddo way.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Which why I thought RJJ vs. Calzaghe was shit.
I never gave Cal any credit for that.
A worthless fight.
As for JMM-Casa well how wrong can you be.
Casa was the lineal champ so the fight was meaningful.
Not to mention Casa at least showed up to fight.
SSM showed up more because of contract and not so much to fight.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.
I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.
Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.
The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.
The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...
A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.
Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.
I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.
Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?
Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.
Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.
I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.
Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.
Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.
Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.
I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.
Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.
The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.
The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...
A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.
Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.
I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.
Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?
Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.
Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.
I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.
Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.
Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.
Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.
Manny hasnt fought below welterwight since the Hatton fight. If he fights Rios or Marquez it should be at 147 right?
At MIck again, for those unable to read my posts I never criticised Marquez for fighting Casay, I merely said his performances against Cruz and Coralles showed him to be as shot as Shane.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.
I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.
Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.
The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.
The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...
A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.
Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.
I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.
Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?
Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.
Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.
I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.
Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.
Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.
Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.
Manny hasnt fought below welterwight since the Hatton fight. If he fights Rios or Marquez it should be at 147 right?
At MIck again, for those unable to read my posts I never criticised Marquez for fighting Casay, I merely said his performances against Cruz and Coralles showed him to be as shot as Shane.
You don't think Manny could make 140? I mean I have no doubt that Marquez and Rios would fight him at any weight anyway. Marquez, well obviously he comes up a lot, and Rios is naturally bigger that PAC anyway.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
ok fuckers STOP quoting eachother I'm getting dizzy... ;D
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
ok fuckers STOP quoting eachother I'm getting dizzy... ;D
The quotes are Saddo's responsibility. He should code it so only say the last two or three are copied over and earlier posts get deleted.
It shouldnt be up to the user to manage the enviroment they type in.
Feeling argumentative today.:p
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that
Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Disagree, JC gave RJJ a nice asswhooping, and caused him to bleed horribly. And RJJ had never bled in the ring before that fight.
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Re: Opinion from a "Pactard"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
More of a general comment/question.
Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?
Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.
Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.
Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.
I didnt criticise the fight read my post again. I said Casamayor was as shot as Mosley. He looked dreadful against Corrales, who himself was finished and he got beat by Cruz almost as one sidedly as Floyd beat Shane. He beat Katsidis but had to go through hell to do it and he's looked bad in every fight other than against Marquez since.
He's probably more shot then Shane, its just Shane fought the two best fighters in the world.
Fair enough!
You're far too agreeable, somebody needs to tell you this is not the Saddo way.
When the truth appears I try to recognize it! Don't worry, I rarely succeed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
For years Manny has been accused of fighting come forward aggressive fighters who wanted to trade shots with Manny fighting toe to toe, the often result they're getting their asses ktfo. Last night we have a bigger fighter with equally fast hands, more power and granite chin dropped on his back and decided to counter punch instead of trading with PAC, admittedly after the fight Shane said if he threw more punches and traded might get himself kayoed. Now with that mentality we STILL COMPLAIN of the result, is not that hypocritic? I do believe that if Shane did trade with Manny he would get ktfo.
The problem is that the game plan applies to a shot fighter who could never apply any strategy to beat PAC another cherry picked opponent. Nice try you only proved you pride yourself with an obvious love for PAC over boxing.
