Opinion from a "Pactard"

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.

I didnt criticise the fight read my post again. I said Casamayor was as shot as Mosley. He looked dreadful against Corrales, who himself was finished and he got beat by Cruz almost as one sidedly as Floyd beat Shane. He beat Katsidis but had to go through hell to do it and he's looked bad in every fight other than against Marquez since.

He's probably more shot then Shane, its just Shane fought the two best fighters in the world.

Fair enough!

You're far too agreeable, somebody needs to tell you this is not the Saddo way.

[CutMeMick]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Which why I thought RJJ vs. Calzaghe was shit.
I never gave Cal any credit for that.
A worthless fight.

As for JMM-Casa well how wrong can you be.
Casa was the lineal champ so the fight was meaningful.
Not to mention Casa at least showed up to fight.
SSM showed up more because of contract and not so much to fight.

[killersheep]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.

Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.

I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.

Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.

Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.

Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.

Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.

I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.

Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.

Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.

Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.

Manny hasnt fought below welterwight since the Hatton fight. If he fights Rios or Marquez it should be at 147 right?

At MIck again, for those unable to read my posts I never criticised Marquez for fighting Casay, I merely said his performances against Cruz and Coralles showed him to be as shot as Shane.

[killersheep]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.

Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.

I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.

Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.

Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.

Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.

Manny hasnt fought below welterwight since the Hatton fight. If he fights Rios or Marquez it should be at 147 right?

At MIck again, for those unable to read my posts I never criticised Marquez for fighting Casay, I merely said his performances against Cruz and Coralles showed him to be as shot as Shane.

You don't think Manny could make 140? I mean I have no doubt that Marquez and Rios would fight him at any weight anyway. Marquez, well obviously he comes up a lot, and Rios is naturally bigger that PAC anyway.

[CutMeMick]

ok fuckers STOP quoting eachother I'm getting dizzy...

[Kev]

ok fuckers STOP quoting eachother I'm getting dizzy...

The quotes are Saddo's responsibility. He should code it so only say the last two or three are copied over and earlier posts get deleted.

It shouldnt be up to the user to manage the enviroment they type in.

Feeling argumentative today.

[JonesJrMayweather]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Disagree, JC gave RJJ a nice asswhooping, and caused him to bleed horribly. And RJJ had never bled in the ring before that fight.

[marbleheadmaui]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

Wait a minute, Casamyor was, at the time, the legit 135 champion of the world! Was he past his best? Yup. But he's STILL the man! NOTHING wrong with that fight.

I didnt criticise the fight read my post again. I said Casamayor was as shot as Mosley. He looked dreadful against Corrales, who himself was finished and he got beat by Cruz almost as one sidedly as Floyd beat Shane. He beat Katsidis but had to go through hell to do it and he's looked bad in every fight other than against Marquez since.

He's probably more shot then Shane, its just Shane fought the two best fighters in the world.

Fair enough!

You're far too agreeable, somebody needs to tell you this is not the Saddo way.

When the truth appears I try to recognize it! Don't worry, I rarely succeed.

[Addicted to Boxing]

For years Manny has been accused of fighting come forward aggressive fighters who wanted to trade shots with Manny fighting toe to toe, the often result they're getting their asses ktfo. Last night we have a bigger fighter with equally fast hands, more power and granite chin dropped on his back and decided to counter punch instead of trading with PAC, admittedly after the fight Shane said if he threw more punches and traded might get himself kayoed. Now with that mentality we STILL COMPLAIN of the result, is not that hypocritic? I do believe that if Shane did trade with Manny he would get ktfo.

The problem is that the game plan applies to a shot fighter who could never apply any strategy to beat PAC another cherry picked opponent. Nice try you only proved you pride yourself with an obvious love for PAC over boxing.

[ross]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Hold on! How old was Calzaghe when he fought Jones compared to Pacquiao v Mosley?

[JonesJrMayweather]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Hold on! How old was Calzaghe when he fought Jones compared to Pacquiao v Mosley?

It's not about real life age, its about boxing age, and Jones was shot to shit by the time JC got to him as was Mosely, the Margarito fight made everyone delusional. He was shane's last hoorah but stylistically he never had chance and a younger shane would have obliterated him earlier.

Jones had been kayoed twice, lost UD, and had wins over sheika and hanshaw before the calzaghe fight. He was shot.

Mosely was 1-2-1 before the pac fight, and to mention that PAC's own trainer before the fight was made said "shane needs to retire"

[fan johnny]

Did anyone else happen to notice for the first time in Pac's career he actually had a quick flickering jab? He usually has that range finder pawing jab. I actually seen him throw three quick jabs in a row to setup the left. He never did than before.





hint: While holding down the shift key and using the cursor direction arrows on the keyboard. it allows you to easily select and delete previously quoted posts.

[Mar]

Say what we will about , weight draining, lack of opponet etc. Manny is bad ass and pac fans should be given a week of pactardation. Mannys job isn't to promote, pick opponets any of that stuff his job is to beat big birds ass if they put him in there. And he does it everytime. Congrats to the guy and his fans if you want to call them that