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Bute and Ward are better than anybody Calzaghe faced imo. Froch would be another great fight as would Kesler (although JC did beat a prime version of Kessler) Also a fight with Dirrell would've been very interesting. I would love to have seen how JC faired in today's pool of SMWs.
Hell I'd like to have seen how he did against Ottke and Jones and Liles and Nunn and Echols in his own time ;)
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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Your not still harping on about that are you?
You made your point at least 10 times now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Calzaghe was late for the benn ,Eubank, collins era but to early for the froch,Bute,ward era.
Pity.:(
I think Butes angels and body attack may have been to much. He and Froch strike me as a bit similiar...low hands, cocky as hell and punching off the hips some. Froch has more pop but Calzaghe higher workrate. You guys would have to declare a National holiday off had they ever met ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I don't think it's possible to say Bute is up there with Calzaghe yet because he's simply fighting too many easy fights, and not being in the Super Six has made his opposition pretty shabby really.
As for Ward, that really would be interesting I reckon. It's hard to compare eras, and a shame that Calzaghe didn't have more competition that actually wanted to fight him, but he had some great performances, and I think he'd be in with a good shout against all of the current crop at smw.
The same Bute that took 10 rounds to breakdown an ancient Brian Magee? This is Brian Magee that a past his best Robin Reid knocked down 100 times, Carl Froch knocked unconcious and a man the WBO wouldn't even sanction for a Calzaghe fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliI think Butes angels and body attack may have been to much. He and Froch strike me as a bit similiar...low hands, cocky as hell and punching off the hips some. Froch has more pop but Calzaghe higher workrate. You guys would have to declare a National holiday off had they ever met ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
The same Bute that was virtually knocked out against Andrade?
Bute is an impressive fighter. But we need to reserve judgement until he actually faces someone top class.
Arthur Abraham was around favourite for the Super Six. Look what happened to him. Kelly Pavlik was destined for greatness after beating Taylor. Look what happened to him.
Bute is a phenomenal body puncher and shifty as they come with solid improvement, Andrade rematch ended a lil different. Personally just have a feel he's too shifty for Joe.We are talking strictly hypothetical and a fight that has 100% chance of not happening. I get the top class...Pavlik certainly isn't it but with the 6 ending we'll see very soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe same Bute that took 10 rounds to breakdown an ancient Brian Magee? This is Brian Magee that a past his best Robin Reid knocked down 100 times, Carl Froch knocked unconcious and a man the WBO wouldn't even sanction for a Calzaghe fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliI think Butes angels and body attack may have been to much. He and Froch strike me as a bit similiar...low hands, cocky as hell and punching off the hips some. Froch has more pop but Calzaghe higher workrate. You guys would have to declare a National holiday off had they ever met ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
The same Bute that was virtually knocked out against Andrade?
Bute is an impressive fighter. But we need to reserve judgement until he actually faces someone top class.
Arthur Abraham was around favorite for the Super Six. Look what happened to him. Kelly Pavlik was destined for greatness after beating Taylor. Look what happened to him.
Pac would have killed him:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
calzaghe wouldnt have fought them if he was around now they are not in their 40's.
Yeah but the classics never get old do they?Quote:
Originally Posted by porkyparaQuote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Your not still harping on about that are you?
You made your point at least 10 times now.
Michael Nunn's last fight at Super Middleweight was in 1995 against John Scully, a fight that was controversial and some people felt Michael Nunn lost. Joe Calzaghe become champion at Super Middleweight in 1997.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So i fail to see how they could have fought, plus Michael Nunn was washed up at that point. This was hardly the Michael Nunn who destroyed Tate, Kalambay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBMichael Nunn's last fight at Super Middleweight was in 1995 against John Scully, a fight that was controversial and some people felt Michael Nunn lost. Joe Calzaghe become champion at Super Middleweight in 1997.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So i fail to see how they could have fought, plus Michael Nunn was washed up at that point. This was hardly the Michael Nunn who destroyed Tate, Kalambay.
...add to the fact that Liles only fought a couple of times after 97 , one of which he got Koed by Mitchell, whom Calzaghe took out in less than 9 minutes, begs the question why would Liles even have been on the radar. Echols: He probably had one decent win around that time (Brewer) after having already lost he then went on to lose to world beating Anthony Mundine and Kingsley Ikeke. Echols never deserved a shot and doesn't belong in the same breath. Ottke: Yes, perhaps they should've fought, but Ottke had a bungi rope attached to his ass that pulled him back to his home town every time he tried to cross the border. Ottke's record would look very different if his bigger fights hadn't taken place in Germany and to say that he was a bigger test than somebody like kessler would be laughable.
Of course, as we know from experience, being british automatically precludes any fighter from being world class ;)
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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Too weaker pool for such a good swimmer. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by porkyparaQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Calzaghe was late for the benn ,Eubank, collins era but to early for the froch,Bute,ward era.
Pity.:(
Coz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
and then avoid a rematch like its the plague, claiming he doesnt do rematches ..... unless your marco veit that is
he beat hopkins convincingly (ok some crazy judge gave it to hopkins)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
and then avoid a rematch like its the plague, claiming he doesnt do rematches ..... unless your marco veit that is
it was a clear win for calazaghi, why should he give him a rematch?
is wlad avoiding a rematch with haye like the plague?
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44he beat hopkins convincingly (ok some crazy judge gave it to hopkins)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
and then avoid a rematch like its the plague, claiming he doesnt do rematches ..... unless your marco veit that is
it was a clear win for calazaghi, why should he give him a rematch?
is wlad avoiding a rematch with haye like the plague?
based on what ? that calzaghe threw more wild shots? hit the air more often than hopkins ?
and im pretty sure calzaghes win over veit was clear but he went back for more there didnt he
and Wlad is all over a rematch with haye because he sees the £££
Or the fact that Hopkins didn't wina round after round 4 and had no answer to Calzaghe's workrate.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44he beat hopkins convincingly (ok some crazy judge gave it to hopkins)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
and then avoid a rematch like its the plague, claiming he doesnt do rematches ..... unless your marco veit that is
it was a clear win for calazaghi, why should he give him a rematch?
is wlad avoiding a rematch with haye like the plague?
based on what ? that calzaghe threw more wild shots? hit the air more often than hopkins ?
and im pretty sure calzaghes win over veit was clear but he went back for more there didnt he
and Wlad is all over a rematch with haye because he sees the £££
exactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HOr the fact that Hopkins didn't wina round after round 4 and had no answer to Calzaghe's workrate.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44he beat hopkins convincingly (ok some crazy judge gave it to hopkins)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
and then avoid a rematch like its the plague, claiming he doesnt do rematches ..... unless your marco veit that is
it was a clear win for calazaghi, why should he give him a rematch?
is wlad avoiding a rematch with haye like the plague?
based on what ? that calzaghe threw more wild shots? hit the air more often than hopkins ?
and im pretty sure calzaghes win over veit was clear but he went back for more there didnt he
and Wlad is all over a rematch with haye because he sees the £££
hopkins probably won the first 4, then landed 4 punches after that
it was the easiest fight ive ever seen to score
Calazaghe is a weird one. He took some valid challenges in Lacy and Kessler but then took on the likes of a past it Jones jr, Veit twice...but that was about it. I havent watched the fight in ages but i remember thinking Hopkins beat him. Also Kessler had him hurt on a few occasions when he actually threw the right hand in the early part of the fight then he just stopped.
Listen i don't care for Calzaghe that much but the man was champion for ten years. He also have a Hopkins Kessler and Lacy on record which not to bad either was Lineal champion in 168 and 175. He also retire undefeated i mean let us wait and see how these fighters end up people jump on new champs but they might end up being duds you never know Froch, ward, and Derril might not last so long who know i just think people jump on wagons far to fast let the career pan out a bit.
100% agree. Hopkins won the first 4 (10-8 in 1st) and Calzaghe won 5-12.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44exactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HOr the fact that Hopkins didn't wina round after round 4 and had no answer to Calzaghe's workrate.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44he beat hopkins convincingly (ok some crazy judge gave it to hopkins)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
and then avoid a rematch like its the plague, claiming he doesnt do rematches ..... unless your marco veit that is
it was a clear win for calazaghi, why should he give him a rematch?
is wlad avoiding a rematch with haye like the plague?
based on what ? that calzaghe threw more wild shots? hit the air more often than hopkins ?
and im pretty sure calzaghes win over veit was clear but he went back for more there didnt he
and Wlad is all over a rematch with haye because he sees the £££
hopkins probably won the first 4, then landed 4 punches after that
it was the easiest fight ive ever seen to score
115-112 Calzaghe - simples
Excellent objective opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
P.S - those mentioning Veit, he was mandatory contender when they fought and was 30-0 first time they fought. 2nd time, Calzgahe went over to Germany and Koed him again. OK so he wasn't great, but only Calzgahe Braemer and Inkin beat him and he finished 49-4
Calzaghe got a career high payday (£750,000) for the Veit rematch. The Germans won the purse bid. No UK broadcaster would buy the fight. It wasn't even on TV. So it was clearly never a big deal.
The only boxers in history that would turndown a career high payday, against men they've previously slaughtered inside 3 minutes, live in the nuthouse. Fact.
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Originally Posted by Fenster
a career high payday up till then in his career?
he must of got more for his last 4?
Of course up until then. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
a career high payday up till then in his career?
he must of got more for his last 4?
Calzaghe was struggling to sell 2000 tickets before Lacy launched him to the British public.
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Originally Posted by FensterOf course up until then. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
a career high payday up till then in his career?
he must of got more for his last 4?
Calzaghe was struggling to sell 2000 tickets before Lacy launched him to the British public.
aye silly me :)
Madness. You make it sound as if boxers are in this game for some kind of financial motivation, which couldn't be further from the truth. They are all in it for the legacy. Apart from the guys who have been at the top of the sport since about 1995. They're all money driven cowards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
He had to fight Veit or he would have been stripped of his wbo belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
and then avoid a rematch like its the plague, claiming he doesnt do rematches ..... unless your marco veit that is
Calzaghe is a great boxer period.. But no way on earth would he beat prime roy at super middle..no one would. Not even wife beater ray robinson. Frank warren done well in keeping joe undefeated..just like rocky m they were both undefeated. But not the greatest.
I think B-Hop beat Joe Calzaghe but im not going to debate it again, also his win over Winky Wright wasn't convincing i had it a draw, plus remember Winky Wright was bloated at that weightclass aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
B-Hop is still a very good fighter in his 40's, but he lacks the stamina he once had and the aggression. If he had fought Joe Calzaghe when he destroyed Glen Johnson, i think he would of won even wider like 8-4.
I think Joe Cal would have beaten Bute and Ward. Joe did a number on Kessler in his prime. Joe had underrated power and a ton of stamina. Joe even beat B Hop when B Hop was fighting like a little bitch and trying to cheat his way to a victory.
I am at a loss to how anyone can think calazaghi lost to hopkinsQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBI think B-Hop beat Joe Calzaghe but im not going to debate it again, also his win over Winky Wright wasn't convincing i had it a draw, plus remember Winky Wright was bloated at that weightclass aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
B-Hop is still a very good fighter in his 40's, but he lacks the stamina he once had and the aggression. If he had fought Joe Calzaghe when he destroyed Glen Johnson, i think he would of won even wider like 8-4.
i like the debates that boxing brings when fights go to descision even some less debateable descisions can be debated but that fight was so clear cut, i dont think there can be any question who won
Im at a loss how you thought Carl Froch beat Mikkel Kessler but thats just my opinion. I said i didn't want to debate it again, because its been debated to death trust me. I just liked B-Hop's cleaner punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44I am at a loss to how anyone can think calazaghi lost to hopkinsQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBI think B-Hop beat Joe Calzaghe but im not going to debate it again, also his win over Winky Wright wasn't convincing i had it a draw, plus remember Winky Wright was bloated at that weightclass aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
B-Hop is still a very good fighter in his 40's, but he lacks the stamina he once had and the aggression. If he had fought Joe Calzaghe when he destroyed Glen Johnson, i think he would of won even wider like 8-4.
i like the debates that boxing brings when fights go to descision even some less debateable descisions can be debated but that fight was so clear cut, i dont think there can be any question who won
i did think froch won that fight, i can understand a case for the other way but i thought froch won a close fight, even those that thought kessler won thought it was close and some rounds could be seen either wayQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBIm at a loss how you thought Carl Froch beat Mikkel Kessler but thats just my opinion. I said i didn't want to debate it again, because its been debated to death trust me. I just liked B-Hop's cleaner punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44I am at a loss to how anyone can think calazaghi lost to hopkinsQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBI think B-Hop beat Joe Calzaghe but im not going to debate it again, also his win over Winky Wright wasn't convincing i had it a draw, plus remember Winky Wright was bloated at that weightclass aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCoz Hopkins has been shite in his forties :rolleyes: Coming off convincing wins against Tarver and Winky, he loses to Calzaghe, then goes on to dominate undefeated Pavlik and even now is beating the likes of Pascal and lined up to fight Chad Dawson next.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
This !!
Somebody who 'ducks' people, doesn't fight Lacy (when everybody thought he was the 2nd coming) or undefeated Mikhael Kesler.
B-Hop is still a very good fighter in his 40's, but he lacks the stamina he once had and the aggression. If he had fought Joe Calzaghe when he destroyed Glen Johnson, i think he would of won even wider like 8-4.
i like the debates that boxing brings when fights go to descision even some less debateable descisions can be debated but that fight was so clear cut, i dont think there can be any question who won
i wont mention hopkins calazaghi gain then if you dont want to talk about it :)