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Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
The fight was for the most part a big disappointment, especially after all the pre-fight hype. Most of the members here on Saddoboxing, were predicting the fight would end in a TKO/KO, and only a few were predicting it would go to a decision.
Wlad was his usual, cautious, timid self, jabbing his way to another less than thrilling decision, Haye on the other-hand just flat out sucked ass, hell, I believe Ibragimuffin put up a better effort. Which when you think about it, shouldn't have been any surprise, unless of course you bought into Haye's bullshit before the fight. To be honest, Haye even had me going a bit, and Wlady's chin isn't exactly made out of granite, is it now. ;)
That being said, Haye now goes on my permanent shit list, which means I have zero interest in anything he does during what's left of his boxing career, including a rematch with Wlad, which I hope he's never able to get, or getting KTFO by Vitali.
Anybody got anything to add?
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
I'm just going to try to move past it.
Delvin and Wolak sure helped!
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Oh u wanted wlad to come out swinging mindlessly and losing just to make u happy??
Haye has never achieved anything ever!!!!!
Wlad would have crushed jack Johnson and prime mike Tyson and Ali!!!
Hate that!!
Quote me
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Wrong - There is a middle ground between being timid and stupid.
Wrong - amture medals and being a champ in two weight classes (one undisputed) isn't nothing... It might not be everything but it's sure as shit more than you've ever done. Unless you play the lottery, being working class and ending up with a million in the bank isn't an accident.
Wrong, wrong, wrong - Wlad was timid and negative against a cruiserweight who is apparently garbage in your words... Yet he beats Ali, Tyson and Foreman? fuck I think guys like Frank Bruno would have beaten him, let alone 3 all time greats
Haye was crap on the night, but you need your head checked.
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Wrong: not head checked
Wrong: haye is shit and I don't hate
Right: haye is crap in general by beating weak oppositsion.
Right: wlad is negative
Right: wlad toyed with haye
Right: wlad appeals to the uk market.
And finally u r wrong too.
Know ur role and quote me
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
If you think that Wlad could beat Ali, Tyson and Foreman then you must have more than a broken toe. :-X
If you think that being a once unified, undisputed and two weight world champion millionare isn't anything then you must be a big shot yourself.
If you think Wlad 'toyed with Haye' when really he did just enough to stay out of trouble and get the round then you need glasses.
How can a man who has 30lbs on a fighter who is an apparent 'nobody' as a boxer box so negatively against him... Barely making a dent on him - be held in contention to beat 3 of the best fightets who ever lived?! :rolleyes:
The spectator who stepped on Haye's toe during ring walk did more damage to Haye than Wlad was able to. Yet this showed that Wlad would beat Ali/Tyson/Foreman?
Timid Wlad + Crap Haye = proof Wlad can beat history's top heavy weights?!?!
Stop contradicting yourself.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
On Haye:
It's clear now that basing your whole legacy around a 'career defining fight' doesn't always work.
I'm also not sold on the 'He is a Cruiserweight' line. He's somewhere in between.
On Klitschko:
Having so many physical advantages; advantages that factually communicate with more prominence than Haye's mouth ever could, yet choosing to fight so tamely is quite a disappointment.
However given the automaton that he is, I'm sure he won't mind much.
On the fight:
It wasn't so bad. It's juts a matter of interpretation. I wouldn't mind a rematch, I think.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
In one sentence:
Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.
The end.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
On Haye:
It's clear now that basing your whole legacy around a 'career defining fight' doesn't always work.
I'm also not sold on the 'He is a Cruiserweight' line. He's somewhere in between.
On Klitschko:
Having so many physical advantages; advantages that factually communicate with more prominence than Haye's mouth ever could, yet choosing to fight so tamely is quite a disappointment.
However given the automaton that he is, I'm sure he won't mind much.
On the fight:
It wasn't so bad. It's juts a matter of interpretation. I wouldn't mind a rematch, I think.
I said before the fight that I thought it was going to be boring with both fighters scared to get hit and just get involved.
Haye was never going to be the man to beat the Klitschkos and from the top ten right now there doesnt look to be anyone else until age slows them down.
Haye gets all this praise for his skills but he really doesnt have any defensive skills. This is why he fights at such a distance and rus sideways. He cant step in range because he doesnt know how to roll, bob or weave or even just cover up.
The next heavyweight that has some confidence in his ability will beat Wladamir but there arent any right now. Its not so much that its a bad era its just that no one person is more skilled than the next, its a pretty much level playing field and the Klitschkos are good but there size is whats helping them. Wladimr will still be pushed back clumsily if someone came forward.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
I agree an thats why I find the idea of him beating a prime tyson hilarious :vd:
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Haye couldnt deliver and looked crap. But can anyone now get past that jab ??
Wlad was boring as usual and jabbed his way to victory. He always knew he would win on points if Haye couldnt get past the jab. But he couldnt hurt a much smaller guy.
Wlad is the best of his era but all down to his physical superiorities really. Now he fighst gun shy I honestly believe he is unbeatable as he is prepared to do that for 36 minutes each time he gets in the ring.
Only a guy his size and with decent skills will beat him.
The Klitschkos are everything thats wrong with the dull heavyweight division at moment - but not their fault if you know what I mean. They are massive and good athletes.
All time list ?? No chance
If there's a rematch then Haye just has to be prepared to go for it and ready to take a KO loss by leaving himself open
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
In one sentence:
Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.
The end.
Spot on!!
Puts everyone to shame.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dropanuke
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
In one sentence:
Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.
The end.
Spot on!!
Puts everyone to shame.
Especially you ;)
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
everyone was excited before the fight mainly because there was a the posibility that we would see an end to by far and away the most boring period of HW boxing in history
in the end the fight was boring and frustraiting just like all of the other HW title fights of the last 5 years
what a pity, i hope it ends soon
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.
In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.
I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dropanuke
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
In one sentence:
Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.
The end.
Spot on!!
Puts everyone to shame.
Especially you ;)
Yeah agree it does put the reply to my remark to shame.
I agree.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dropanuke
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dropanuke
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
In one sentence:
Wlad dominated, Haye didn't deliver.
The end.
Spot on!!
Puts everyone to shame.
Especially you ;)
Yeah agree it does put the reply to my remark to shame.
I agree.
Even though your typing complete nonsense and your wit is completely out of context, well said ;D
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.
In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.
I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).
Going on record here - Haye has never been and will never be my favourite fighter. Not even close... I think he has some talent and he's British - so I'll get behind him. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in him... Like his attitude etc. Fuck I never even picked to beat wlad... Just daid it was possible.
He didn't deliver, people can criticise him for that. He had the ability to make a better go of it and didn't.
And I don't think Wlad is awful. I just think that for somebody to think so little of David Haye to see with their own eyes: Wlad come nowhere near to 'smashing' the David Haye the regard so little to then say that Wlad 'smashes a prime Ali and Tyson' is full blown retarded.
He doesn't smash david crap haye... But he does smash Tyson and even Ali in their primes? What a dumb thing to say. :vd:
He might not be easy wins for them... But be real... Wlad has shown time and time again that he doesn't 'smash' anybody... Let alone 2 ATGs
If I stick up for the guy it's when people like Dropanuke turn it up to 11 in the saying stupid shit departement.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
AdamGB, I hear ya. Wlad has had a long heavyweight reign though and you got to give him some credit. Like I said, it's not like he's ducked anyone or hasn't fought someone when people thought he should. He made a lot of concessions just to able to get David Haye in the ring. He's beat every single other "best guy" in his division. That speaks volumes in my opinion. He's taken many "0's" from top ten heavyweights. The problem is that he doesn't fight to destroy, he fights to win. Mayweather does the same thing and that can be tedious at times.
Wlad doesn't smash people like say Manny Pacquiao does, but he does always dominate. He'd be a handful for a lot of heavyweights. He'd have trouble with guys with chins who had the balls to force their way inside because they could rely on their chins. Haye wanted so much to do that, but he knows, and we know, he doesn't have the chin to pull that off. Foreman comes to mind as a guy Wlad would have a tough time with. To be fair to dropanuke and others like him, there were a lot of people talking a ton of crap about Wlad before that fight, a lot of people, so he is somewhat warranted in responding the way he has.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
AdamGB, my thing is this. Well, first off, I've thought about it and I don't want to be a proponent of hitting a guy when he's down. From your posts, it sounds like your favorite fighter was David Haye. I hear that, and listen he was a heavyweight champion, that says something. Personally, I don't give Wlad any more credit for beating Haye than I do for beating Thompson, Chambers, Chagaev, or Ibragimov. Some of those guys held belts too and Chagaev even, like Haye, beat Valuev to get the belt. In fact, I give Wlad less credit for beating Haye probably than a couple of those guys. The problem I had in retrospect was that I let Haye sell me that this was going to be a good fight. So, I guess my final thoughts are that I was let down on what was hyped to be the biggest heavyweight in years and ended up being a horrible fight. The blame for it being a boring fight is both fighter's fault, but I blame Haye more for letting me down that it was going to be an exciting scrap.
In regards to Wlad and Haye's resume and careers and historical placement against fighters in their weight classes. I agree that Wlad wouldn't have beat a bunch of the all-time heavyweights you mentioned. However, he fights effectively with his height and reach, and defensively, and I don't think he'd be a walk in the park for any of those guys either. He's a top twenty heavyweight for me, rounding out around number 20, somewhere around there. I respect him for taking on every single person in his division even though the division isn't that great. That the division isn't great is the reason David Haye was able to get a belt. However, give Wlad credit too, Wlad hasn't ducked anyone. He's unified every single belt other than the one his brother owns. No two ways about it that's a remarkable accomplishment. Your point that Haye came from a working class background and achieved a lot - so did Wlad and he achieved more, much, much more. On to Haye.
I was never high on Haye. For example, I recall debating Haye with Erics44 and Erics44 acknowledged that Haye's resume wasn't very good, but that he saw a lot of potential in Haye to do big things. He also thought he was the most exciting heavyweight in modern times. I doubted those claims because at that time two of Haye's four heavyweight fights weren't entertaining. His best win on his resume probably is over Nikolai Valuev, which isn't all that impressive. He was a unified cruiserweight champ and that deserves some mention, but only some mention, because his wins at cruiserweight weren't impressive. His best win was probably over Fragomenni, maybe Mormeck. He unified with Enzo Mac and Mormeck anyway. What stands out about Haye for me is that he doesn't have one stand out win. Whereas Adamek , another unified cruiserweight champion, can lay claim to beating Cunningham and Arreola, Haye doesn't even have those type of wins. At the end of the day, Haye just didn't have too great a career. He definitely isn't Canastota material, not even close, and as far as British boxers of the last five years, he probably isn't even ranked in the top 5 (I'd have Carl Froch, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Amir Khan all easily above him).
Going on record here - Haye has never been and will never be my favourite fighter. Not even close... I think he has some talent and he's British - so I'll get behind him. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in him... Like his attitude etc. Fuck I never even picked to beat wlad... Just daid it was possible.
He didn't deliver, people can criticise him for that. He had the ability to make a better go of it and didn't.
And I don't think Wlad is awful. I just think that for somebody to think so little of David Haye to see
with their own eyes: Wlad come nowhere near to 'smashing' the David Haye the regard so little to then say that Wlad '
smashes a prime Ali and Tyson' is full blown retarded.
He doesn't smash david crap haye... But he does smash Tyson and even Ali in their primes? What a dumb thing to say. :vd:
He might not be easy wins for them... But be real... Wlad has shown time and time again that he doesn't 'smash' anybody... Let alone 2 ATGs
If I stick up for the guy it's when people like Dropanuke turn it up to 11 in the saying stupid shit departement.
Also, I can't see how you can say Haye doesn't have a 'Arreola' or a 'Cunningham' on his record... I'm a little bit blown a way by that comment.
1st, lets see if Cunningham is good enough to unify the Cruiserweight division. Second lets see if Arreola is good enough to beat ANYONE in the same class as Valuev, Ruiz or Barrett that haden't already bean beaten by Valuev, Ruiz or Barrett ;)
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
:plthumbsdown::plthumbsdown:
It was disappointing.
I knew both fighters styles going into the fight but i really thought Haye would take it to Wladimir as soon as the bell rang because surely he didn't think he could beat him by trying to land one big shot and/or outbox him.
Obviously he did think he could, which resulted in an over cautious boring technical boxing match.
Haye talked the talk, but certainly didn't walk the walk.
It didn't help that he tried to blame it all on his baby toe either. :rolleyes:
I know people will say Klitschko didn't make the fight exciting either but the way i see it, Haye was the challenger and he did alot more talking than Wlad did so the pressure was on him and basically......... he didn't deliver.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
:plthumbsdown::plthumbsdown:
It was disappointing.
I knew both fighters styles going into the fight but i really thought Haye would take it to Wladimir as soon as the bell rang because surely he didn't think he could beat him by trying to land one big shot and/or outbox him.
Obviously he did think he could, which resulted in an over cautious boring technical boxing match.
Haye talked the talk, but certainly didn't walk the walk.
It didn't help that he tried to blame it all on his baby toe either. :rolleyes:
I know people will say Klitschko didn't make the fight exciting either but the way i see it, Haye was the challenger and he did alot more talking than Wlad did so the pressure was on him and basically......... he didn't deliver.
wlad also promised to KO haye on plenty of occasions and punish him for 12 rounds and KO him at the end
it was also in germany which is wlads boxing home with the majority of fans in the stadium wlads
lets be honest, haye didnt deliver but it wasnt a boring fight just because of haye, wlad had all the advantages and boxed just as cautious as ever
lets hope the klits retire soon and we might then start to get some excitement back in the HWs
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
:plthumbsdown::plthumbsdown:
It was disappointing.
I knew both fighters styles going into the fight but i really thought Haye would take it to Wladimir as soon as the bell rang because surely he didn't think he could beat him by trying to land one big shot and/or outbox him.
Obviously he did think he could, which resulted in an over cautious boring technical boxing match.
Haye talked the talk, but certainly didn't walk the walk.
It didn't help that he tried to blame it all on his baby toe either. :rolleyes:
I know people will say Klitschko didn't make the fight exciting either but the way i see it, Haye was the challenger and he did alot more talking than Wlad did so the pressure was on him and basically......... he didn't deliver.
wlad also promised to KO haye on plenty of occasions and punish him for 12 rounds and KO him at the end
it was also in germany which is wlads boxing home with the majority of fans in the stadium wlads
lets be honest, haye didnt deliver but it wasnt a boring fight just because of haye, wlad had all the advantages and boxed just as cautious as ever
lets hope the klits retire soon and we might then start to get some excitement back in the HWs
I wrote that Wlad talked also, The problem is Haye did alot more talking, alot more.
Haye was the challenger and didn't take it to Wlad surely knowing it would be much harder to outbox Wlad and especially get a decision in Germany.
Wlad could of done more but he wasn't out there to prove he was better than Haye, we already knew he was.
The division isn't poor because of the Klitschkos either. It's poor because most heavyweights today simply suck. They are either unfit or unskilled or both.
I know the Klitschko's aren't necessarily exciting but at least they bring class to the division. You know that when you watch the klitschkos, you know you are going to see world class boxers, not the crap that most of the division has today.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
:plthumbsdown::plthumbsdown:
It was disappointing.
I knew both fighters styles going into the fight but i really thought Haye would take it to Wladimir as soon as the bell rang because surely he didn't think he could beat him by trying to land one big shot and/or outbox him.
Obviously he did think he could, which resulted in an over cautious boring technical boxing match.
Haye talked the talk, but certainly didn't walk the walk.
It didn't help that he tried to blame it all on his baby toe either. :rolleyes:
I know people will say Klitschko didn't make the fight exciting either but the way i see it, Haye was the challenger and he did alot more talking than Wlad did so the pressure was on him and basically......... he didn't deliver.
wlad also promised to KO haye on plenty of occasions and punish him for 12 rounds and KO him at the end
it was also in germany which is wlads boxing home with the majority of fans in the stadium wlads
lets be honest, haye didnt deliver but it wasnt a boring fight just because of haye, wlad had all the advantages and boxed just as cautious as ever
lets hope the klits retire soon and we might then start to get some excitement back in the HWs
I wrote that Wlad talked also, The problem is Haye did alot more talking, alot more.
Haye was the challenger and didn't take it to Wlad surely knowing it would be much harder to outbox Wlad and especially get a decision in Germany.
Wlad could of done more but he wasn't out there to prove he was better than Haye, we already knew he was.
The division isn't poor because of the Klitschkos either. It's poor because most heavyweights today simply suck. They are either unfit or unskilled or both.
I know the Klitschko's aren't necessarily exciting but at least they bring class to the division. You know that when you watch the klitschkos, you know you are going to see world class boxers, not the crap that most of the division has today.
Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
I wrote that Wlad talked also, The problem is Haye did alot more talking, alot more.
Haye was the challenger and didn't take it to Wlad surely knowing it would be much harder to outbox Wlad and especially get a decision in Germany.
Wlad could of done more but he wasn't out there to prove he was better than Haye, we already knew he was.
The division isn't poor because of the Klitschkos either. It's poor because most heavyweights today simply suck. They are either unfit or unskilled or both.
I know the Klitschko's aren't necessarily exciting but at least they bring class to the division. You know that when you watch the klitschkos, you know you are going to see world class boxers, not the crap that most of the division has today.
the HW division is extremely dull and yes there isnt that much competition but the main champion is a dull fighter, far too cautious to ever be in a good fight, so i'd say its a mixture of the lack of tallent and the style of the champion
even in a division void of tallent a tyson as champ would be much more entertaining
we wont have any entertainment in the division until the klits retire
and yes haye probably did more talking but wlad did his fair share :) and also didnt do as he had promised (there was a period of at least a few weeks in the build up where haye said very little and wlad was doing all the trashing)
and i dont agree that because haye was the challenger he had to do more, he just had to do what he felt would win the fight didnt he?
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.
perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.
perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment
Not necessarily either, logically, if you take away the K-Bros, and who have you really got from the rest of the division that's going to provide better fights and/or entertainment. The Klitschko Bros are over criticized, under-appreciated, and will be sorely missed by boxing and the HW division when they're gone.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
I wrote that Wlad talked also, The problem is Haye did alot more talking, alot more.
Haye was the challenger and didn't take it to Wlad surely knowing it would be much harder to outbox Wlad and especially get a decision in Germany.
Wlad could of done more but he wasn't out there to prove he was better than Haye, we already knew he was.
The division isn't poor because of the Klitschkos either. It's poor because most heavyweights today simply suck. They are either unfit or unskilled or both.
I know the Klitschko's aren't necessarily exciting but at least they bring class to the division. You know that when you watch the klitschkos, you know you are going to see world class boxers, not the crap that most of the division has today.
the HW division is extremely dull and yes there isnt that much competition but the main champion is a dull fighter, far too cautious to ever be in a good fight, so i'd say its a mixture of the lack of tallent and the style of the champion
even in a division void of tallent a tyson as champ would be much more entertaining
we wont have any entertainment in the division until the klits retire
and yes haye probably did more talking but wlad did his fair share :) and also didnt do as he had promised (there was a period of at least a few weeks in the build up where haye said very little and wlad was doing all the trashing)
and i dont agree that because haye was the challenger he had to do more, he just had to do what he felt would win the fight didnt he?
Haye must of known he couldn't outbox Wlad and waiting for one shot is a terrible strategy especially against someone of Wlad's caliber.
Wlad and Vitali are only two fighters, they don't affect how bad the rest of the division is and how bad those fights are.
Yeah there fights are dull sometimes especially Wlad but he has to be cautious because his chin is poor.
Once the Klitschkos do retire, i feel sorry for the heavyweight division because it will only get worse imo.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Haye must of known he couldn't outbox Wlad and waiting for one shot is a terrible strategy especially against someone of Wlad's caliber.
Wlad and Vitali are only two fighters, they don't affect how bad the rest of the division is and how bad those fights are.
Yeah there fights are dull sometimes especially Wlad but he has to be cautious because his chin is poor.
Once the Klitschkos do retire, i feel sorry for the heavyweight division because it will only get worse imo.
All of his fights are dull and boring and frustrating appart from when he loses
and it doesnt matter why his boring, he just is
I'm not sure it will get worse, i think it will give some of the lesser fighters more incentive and we might actually get some HW title fights that arent so dull
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.
perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment
Not necessarily either, logically, if you take away the K-Bros, and who have you really got from the rest of the division that's going to provide better fights and/or entertainment. The Klitschko Bros are over criticized, under-appreciated, and will be sorely missed by boxing and the HW division when they're gone.
thats not really logical, its valid opinion but one i disagree with
My opinion is if you take away the klit bros then the fighters below would then become the top HWs and would be more evenly matched, and there is a chance that an agressive fighter emerges as the top dog
I disagree with your last sentence also, their skill as the best HWs around is widely recognised, Vitali perhaps is over critisized Wlad isnt, he fights over cautious and deserves to be critisized for it, and the HW situation is the most dull it has been in history and that is at large portion due to wlad's style, so the people who dont appreciate this are well within their rights
have you honestly enjoyed a HW title fight involving wlad in the last 5 years?
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I love the people bailing out of the Haye bandwagon "I was never REALLY a fan of his" ....rrrright. That's cool, that's ok, I don't mind you rats fleeing that sinking ship, I told you Haye was a phony from day 1!
I do mind when people assume the heavyweight division would be better off without the Klitschko's when right now they are the only fighters in that division worth watching. Say what you will about Wlad he's extremely skilled and 100% dedicated to the sport, that's not opinion that's FACT!
As for how the division would do without them? Well there are very interesting fights that COULD be made, I see 0 on the horizon that peaks my interest or even looks like it will be a good scrap not even Chagaev-Povetkin. I do hope for the sake of a fresh challenge that Povetkin steam rolls Chagaev but hell who knows what will happen its been so long since either fighter was in vs top competition.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Without Klit brothers this era would truly suck. How could it be entertaining whenever all the guys besides the Brothers, Adamek, and Hayes are out-of-shape or 50 year old shot up fighters.
Truly someone name 5 guys under 40 that aren't fat as fuck and that truly come to fight? And yes, Areolla is a fat fuck. I'll give you Lyakovich I guess.
How can anyone claim to be a professional boxer, yet come in 60-80 pounds overweight? Baffles me. Not only that, but we are talking about James TOney (who actually had skill), we are talking about fat fucks without skill.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Haye must of known he couldn't outbox Wlad and waiting for one shot is a terrible strategy especially against someone of Wlad's caliber.
Wlad and Vitali are only two fighters, they don't affect how bad the rest of the division is and how bad those fights are.
Yeah there fights are dull sometimes especially Wlad but he has to be cautious because his chin is poor.
Once the Klitschkos do retire, i feel sorry for the heavyweight division because it will only get worse imo.
All of his fights are dull and boring and frustrating appart from when he loses
and it doesnt matter why his boring, he just is
I'm not sure it will get worse, i think it will give some of the lesser fighters more incentive and we might actually get some HW title fights that arent so dull
You can't blame the Klitschkos for the rest of the division sucking.
It will get worse because almost all of the other heavyweights are what i said before.
Unfit or unskilled or unmotivated or all of them combined lol.
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I think there are some guys that can make for exciting fights but I don't give anyone a chance of beating the Klitschko's.
The reason I gave Haye so much crap is because he talked a lot.....A LOT and then fought in retreat the entire fight and adding insult to injury he complained to the ref and feigned fouls more than a Portuguese footballer! When Mike Tyson talked he delivered on his word, same with Ali, same with Lewis, Louis, and all the other greats. There is nothing wrong with hyping yourself up for a fight...but hyping a fighter just to hype it? It made David Haye look like no more than Peter McNeeley, that's a very sad statement even for me to make, but its true.
I'm hoping Wlad gets Arreola, Stiverne, Povetkin, and Valuev before he retires.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boozeboxer
Without Klit brothers this era would truly suck. How could it be entertaining whenever all the guys besides the Brothers, Adamek, and Hayes are out-of-shape or 50 year old shot up fighters.
Truly someone name 5 guys under 40 that aren't fat as fuck and that truly come to fight? And yes, Areolla is a fat fuck. I'll give you Lyakovich I guess.
How can anyone claim to be a professional boxer, yet come in 60-80 pounds overweight? Baffles me. Not only that, but we are talking about James TOney (who actually had skill), we are talking about fat fucks without skill.
Thank you.....
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.
perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment
Not necessarily either, logically, if you take away the K-Bros, and who have you really got from the rest of the division that's going to provide better fights and/or entertainment. The Klitschko Bros are over criticized, under-appreciated, and will be sorely missed by boxing and the HW division when they're gone.
thats not really logical, its valid opinion but one i disagree with
My opinion is if you take away the klit bros then the fighters below would then become the top HWs and would be more evenly matched, and there is a chance that an agressive fighter emerges as the top dog
I disagree with your last sentence also, their skill as the best HWs around is widely recognised, Vitali perhaps is over critisized Wlad isnt, he fights over cautious and deserves to be critisized for it, and the HW situation is the most dull it has been in history and that is at large portion due to wlad's style, so the people who dont appreciate this are well within their rights
have you honestly enjoyed a HW title fight involving wlad in the last 5 years?
Yes I have enjoyed some of Wlad's fights, and look Eric, I don't want to debate this topic with you, but if you think the HW division is dull now, don't take my word for it, just wait until the K-bros are gone. As for this being the dullest era in HW history, that just lets me know, that you know fuck all about HW boxing history.
I hope this helps.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Haye must of known he couldn't outbox Wlad and waiting for one shot is a terrible strategy especially against someone of Wlad's caliber.
Wlad and Vitali are only two fighters, they don't affect how bad the rest of the division is and how bad those fights are.
Yeah there fights are dull sometimes especially Wlad but he has to be cautious because his chin is poor.
Once the Klitschkos do retire, i feel sorry for the heavyweight division because it will only get worse imo.
All of his fights are dull and boring and frustrating appart from when he loses
and it doesnt matter why his boring, he just is
I'm not sure it will get worse, i think it will give some of the lesser fighters more incentive and we might actually get some HW title fights that arent so dull
You can't blame the Klitschkos for the rest of the division sucking.
It will get worse because almost all of the other heavyweights are what i said before.
Unfit or unskilled or unmotivated or all of them combined lol.
Nice post.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark TKO
Haye couldnt deliver and looked crap. But can anyone now get past that jab ??
Wlad was boring as usual and jabbed his way to victory. He always knew he would win on points if Haye couldnt get past the jab. But he couldnt hurt a much smaller guy.
Wlad is the best of his era but all down to his physical superiorities really. Now he fighst gun shy I honestly believe he is unbeatable as he is prepared to do that for 36 minutes each time he gets in the ring.
Only a guy his size and with decent skills will beat him.
The Klitschkos are everything thats wrong with the dull heavyweight division at moment - but not their fault if you know what I mean. They are massive and good athletes.
All time list ?? No chance
If there's a rematch then Haye just has to be prepared to go for it and ready to take a KO loss by leaving himself open
Great post Mark TKO that was on the ball and very good. I agree with you 100%.
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Exactly, what I always say is, if you think the HW division is bad now, try to imagine what it would be like without the Klitschko Brothers.
perhaps less skill but definately more entertainment
Not necessarily either, logically, if you take away the K-Bros, and who have you really got from the rest of the division that's going to provide better fights and/or entertainment. The Klitschko Bros are over criticized, under-appreciated, and will be sorely missed by boxing and the HW division when they're gone.
thats not really logical, its valid opinion but one i disagree with
My opinion is if you take away the klit bros then the fighters below would then become the top HWs and would be more evenly matched, and there is a chance that an agressive fighter emerges as the top dog
I disagree with your last sentence also, their skill as the best HWs around is widely recognised, Vitali perhaps is over critisized Wlad isnt, he fights over cautious and deserves to be critisized for it, and the HW situation is the most dull it has been in history and that is at large portion due to wlad's style, so the people who dont appreciate this are well within their rights
have you honestly enjoyed a HW title fight involving wlad in the last 5 years?
Yes I have enjoyed some of Wlad's fights, and look Eric, I don't want to debate this topic with you, but if you think the HW division is dull now, don't take my word for it, just wait until the K-bros are gone. As for this being the dullest era in HW history, that just lets me know, that you know fuck all about HW boxing history.
I hope this helps.
whooooaaaa he has his knickers in a twist again
ok, i dont know the whole history of the hw division because i didnt live through it all, in my time it is by far the dullest period
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Re: Any final thoughts on Wlad vs Haye?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Haye must of known he couldn't outbox Wlad and waiting for one shot is a terrible strategy especially against someone of Wlad's caliber.
Wlad and Vitali are only two fighters, they don't affect how bad the rest of the division is and how bad those fights are.
Yeah there fights are dull sometimes especially Wlad but he has to be cautious because his chin is poor.
Once the Klitschkos do retire, i feel sorry for the heavyweight division because it will only get worse imo.
All of his fights are dull and boring and frustrating appart from when he loses
and it doesnt matter why his boring, he just is
I'm not sure it will get worse, i think it will give some of the lesser fighters more incentive and we might actually get some HW title fights that arent so dull
You can't blame the Klitschkos for the rest of the division sucking.
It will get worse because almost all of the other heavyweights are what i said before.
Unfit or unskilled or unmotivated or all of them combined lol.
no you cant blame the klits, the klits are some of the best HW in history, i think vitali would live with anyone
the point is, their styles are over cautious and not very entertaining, when the klits are gone hopefully we will start to see a bit of agression in the division, maybe the agressive fighters wouldnt beat the klits but it would almost certainly be more entertaining
