Looks like he wasn't faking
Boxing - Bernard Hopkins Update
Wonder how Dawson feels now after making himself look like a prick after the fight. Hopkins WILL get his rematch and show Dawson how "gangter" he is I guess.
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Looks like he wasn't faking
Boxing - Bernard Hopkins Update
Wonder how Dawson feels now after making himself look like a prick after the fight. Hopkins WILL get his rematch and show Dawson how "gangter" he is I guess.
Sorry to say but we all know the story of the boy who cried wolf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerjelly
Their crops and their sheep were ruined by the wolf that killed the boy because they refused to listen thus screwing themselves over in the process as well?
So I guess in this instance it just means boxing is putting a nail further in its coffin with stuff like this
Question is, at his age will he ever be the same again.
Any fighter who has suffered a dislocated shoulder will tell you it took them a while until they were fully confident in letting their right hand go with full power. Without that weapon Hopkins could be useless against a southpaw. If Dawson has ended the career of a legend with that foul the he needs to address the situation. Instead what we saw was him swearing and an old injured man. Classless!
Hopkins landed on his Left shoulder not his right
I am sure he wasn't faking, but I got to say, it's not very hard to get whatever emergency room diagnosis you want. It's basically based on your complaintsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
The diagnosis that was given in this case was just not based on the complaint. The physician also relied on the X-ray which is very much accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance UppercutI am sure he wasn't faking, but I got to say, it's not very hard to get whatever emergency room diagnosis you want. It's basically based on your complaintsQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
I agree with Lance. Clearly there was no way whatsoever Hop would be leaving hospital witout an injured shoulder diagnosis.
It should still be a no decision though and Hopkins should get his belt back.
It was just a separation, not big deal for someone as hard as Hopkins right? I mean this is the same guy who called Vitali Klitstchko a quitter when he had a torn rotator cuff (the muscles that control movement in your shoulder) and all Bernard had was a separation and it looks to me like they didn't even grade it (they usually have grades to show how severe it is).
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy
Great fight!Worth every penny!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
My thoughts exactly, what comes around goes around and once a con always a con.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Just like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
I had a partial dislocation and it took me months - years even to get confident on my right again...
Just saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerJust like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
Why wouldhe 'pull a con' though? It was only the second round, he had probably won the first and was in no trouble whatsover. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axJust saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerJust like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
How can anybody say he was faking when there is evidence proving that he wasnt? It was the 2nd round why would he want a way out when the action had barely started? He wasn't in any trouble or losing so I don't see how Dawson can have a tko, complete BS.
Does anyone think when Dawson touched down in the 2nd round after the right hand that it could have been called a knockdown?
Yea he was pulling the Con. I saw him get lit up by Dawson's electrifying handspeed and power. He touched up Hopkins repeatedly. Complete wipeout on Dawson's part. Really left his mark on that old coot. I dont Blame Bernard for tanking it in the 2nd round and wanting no more of that hiding :rolleyes: :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axJust saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerJust like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
It should be a no contest, that is no way to win a title.
no, it isn't fair but neither were any of the illegal...sorry gamesmanship :rolleyes: techniques that Hopkins has himself used over the years.
NC & re-match.
In an x-ray, there is no gray area with regards to diagnosing a dislocation. They can ask for different views of the same shoulder and it will either be dislocated or it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axJust saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerJust like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
I've separated my shoulder several times and never once did I stop playing....it hurts and I reckon had I been throwing punches instead of playing football or lacrosse it would have been different, but hey this happened to a guy (Hopkins) who like so many dogged Vitali Klitschko when Vitali had a torn rotator cuff (which is much worse) also Hopkins is a dirty fighter and an asshole so I have 0 sympathy for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
I can't recall Hopkins ever winning a fight by throwing somebody to the floor and them being unable to continue :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Lyle B-Hop once won a fight just using one arm, so you can't really try and use that to defend Klitschko.
you didnt know Lyle is really Bernd Boente, manager of both Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
Quote:
Just like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.
Quote:
Just saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.
Quote:
In an x-ray, there is no gray area with regards to diagnosing a dislocation. They can ask for different views of the same shoulder and it will either be dislocated or it isn't.
I don't buy that, i'd bet if you got 5 radiologists looking at the x-rays you might get 5 different opinions, some might even say the shoulder was only bruised.
Hopkins had already pushed Dawson to the canvas once, when he tried to do it again, Dawson got pissed and pushed him off of him and Hopkins went down hard to the canvas. The way I see it Dawson just wasn't going to put up with any more of Hop's dirty bullshit and you can't really blame him for that.
The con man got what he deserved, end of story.
My left partially dislocates ALL the time, I have fuck all confidence in throwing a big hook or jab :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Prove your claim, are you a Dr or a radiologist? I imagine you are well schooled in medicine, perhaps even an expert seeing you can just throw out statements like they are a matter of fact;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
a torn rotator cuff stings and slows down your lifting of the arm,since you've lost part of the muscles that lift the arm but not all of them. So the arm can still be used if you can cope with the pain, using the auxillary muscles for movement. It would be feasible to box on for a while with ther adrenaline running like Sonny Liston did against Ali (1st fight), but you would be stupid to, no point in putting yourself through that.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
A dislocated shoulder hurts like hell, and will mean even the tiniest roation kills you at the joint, You cant hardly lift it, the shoulder joint isnt where it should be, so very little forces can be exerted. Attempting to do can even lead to you losing the use of your arm permanently.
Tbh, fighting after 40 years age, you are only setting your biody up for both these types of injuries. BHop should have retired years ago if he wants to look after his body, no way should he be in in the ring with world class athletes.
Though there is a difference in magnitude ofthe compared injuries, a doctor obviously wouldnt recommend fighting with either injury.
You can laugh, but I thought Dawson was starting to rough Hopkins up a bit and on his way to winning the fight before it was stopped, and I believe that's part of the reason why Hopkins pulled his con. The primary reason for the con being that Hopkins thought he was hurt worse than he was, and mistakenly thought that Dawson would get DQ'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockYea he was pulling the Con. I saw him get lit up by Dawson's electrifying handspeed and power. He touched up Hopkins repeatedly. Complete wipeout on Dawson's part. Really left his mark on that old coot. I dont Blame Bernard for tanking it in the 2nd round and wanting no more of that hiding :rolleyes: :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axJust saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerJust like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
A dislocated shoulder look very clear on xray -see the one below! -Quote:
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
1.the green arrow shows where the socket has been forced
2. the red arrow shows the little 'cup' or socket where it should be resting to provide a fulcrum for the shoulder muscles to move it.
Clearly the arm cant be used when its not in its cup/socket, as theres nothing for its head to rest against, so real forces cannot be exerted to move it. And theres no way a useful doctor can misinterpret the change in position.
Even touching the surface of the skin should be enough to reveal that the socket's head isnt where it should be, if you cant feel the arm bone underneath the top of the shoulder, its certainly dislocated - you can do this on yourself, start weith the shoulder bone right at the top of your shoulder nearest your neck at the highest point possible, move your fingers out until you loose contact with bone, theres a tiny gap and then a return to bone - that new bone is part of that 'ball' the arm bone, and thats where it should be with a non dislocated shoulder.
Observe the Xray pic below - the ball of the arm bone, even to the layman's eyes, can be seen directly out of the shoulder's concave socket it should be sitting in. Its very clear cut.
(This is an anterior dislocation, the most common one and the likely on Bhop suffered).
Well, I think that it was a very bad call but I think that it did happen a bit because of Hopkins injury;
- Wrong because it is boxing, not wrestling and that this happened in a grapple contest, for a moment I felt like Dawson was a kind of Randy Couture, minus the heart and charisma.
- Something Hopkins called for because he has a long history of faking all sort of things in order to save time. Would Hopkins never have done that, perhaps Russell would have make the good decision instead of this awful judgement.
Of course i'm not a radiologist, but what I do know is Doctors and/or Radiologists fuck up diagnostics on a regular basis. And i'm not making a "claim", i'm giving an opinion, are you intelligent enough to understand the difference? It's a boxing forum, that's what we do here dimwit, talk about boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
Prove your claim, are you a Dr or a radiologist? I imagine you are well schooled in medicine, perhaps even an expert seeing you can just throw out statements like they are a matter of fact;)
Such a stupid post. So you think this first ballot hall of famer, arguably the greatest middleweight of all time, quit because he had a hunch Dawson was going to do be able to put it on him later in the fight and he wouldn't be able to hang with him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by JT RockYea he was pulling the Con. I saw him get lit up by Dawson's electrifying handspeed and power. He touched up Hopkins repeatedly. Complete wipeout on Dawson's part. Really left his mark on that old coot. I dont Blame Bernard for tanking it in the 2nd round and wanting no more of that hiding :rolleyes: :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axJust saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerJust like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
You can laugh, but I thought Dawson was starting to rough Hopkins up a bit and on his way to winning the fight before it was stopped, and I believe that's part of the reason why Hopkins pulled his con. The primary reason for the con being that Hopkins thought he was hurt worse than he was, and mistakenly thought that Dawson would get DQ'd.
If this was the case, then why, pray tell did he stay in there with Jean Pascal, the conquerer of Dawson, after being floored twice and and being way down on the scorecards? Why didn't he look for a way to get a DQ in that fight, rather than turning it all around with a beautiful boxing lesson?
Did he sense that Pascal, despite flooring him twice was going to wilt in the later rounds, whereas as his spider senses alerted him to the fact that Dawson was going to come on strong?
Both fighters landed 5 punches in the 1st round, and the 2nd round looked like another stalemate aswell. I don't see where all this Chad Dawson was winning idea has come from, i didn't see any fighter having an advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboSuch a stupid post. So you think this first ballot hall of famer, arguably the greatest middleweight of all time, quit because he had a hunch Dawson was going to do be able to put it on him later in the fight and he wouldn't be able to hang with him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axYou can laugh, but I thought Dawson was starting to rough Hopkins up a bit and on his way to winning the fight before it was stopped, and I believe that's part of the reason why Hopkins pulled his con. The primary reason for the con being that Hopkins thought he was hurt worse than he was, and mistakenly thought that Dawson would get DQ'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockYea he was pulling the Con. I saw him get lit up by Dawson's electrifying handspeed and power. He touched up Hopkins repeatedly. Complete wipeout on Dawson's part. Really left his mark on that old coot. I dont Blame Bernard for tanking it in the 2nd round and wanting no more of that hiding :rolleyes: :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axJust saying, the Dr might not be crooked, but x-rays of this type can be read a number of different ways, there's a gray area.. comprende? My "diagnosis" is Hop tried to pull a con, and it failed, and furthermore, fuck Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerJust like every profession, there are always those bad apples in the batch. But in a high profile case such as this, the doctor would not confirm that diagnosis if it isn't backed by any work-up, whether it's laboratory or radiologic (x-rays). He knows his findings will be under media scrunity & he has a reputation and a license to protect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Sorry, but I don't buy it, it's well known that x-rays can be read a number of different ways, and it's also well known that you can get a "Doctor" to "confirm" just about anything. My guess is, Hopkins had a bruised shoulder and could have continued, but being the con that he really is, he thought he could win by a DQ.
If this was the case, then why, pray tell did he stay in there with Jean Pascal, the conquerer of Dawson, after being floored twice and and being way down on the scorecards? Why didn't he look for a way to get a DQ in that fight, rather than turning it all around with a beautiful boxing lesson?
Did he sense that Pascal, despite flooring him twice was going to wilt in the later rounds, whereas as his spider senses alerted him to the fact that Dawson was going to come on strong?
It probably would of ended up alot like Taylor/Hopkins, a very close controversial decision IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanKnight
Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
haha ta! I cant completely rule out a corrupt doctor faking the xray from another patient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by RohanKnight
Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
But yeah, it would have been obvious the bone wasnt in place just be touch, dont know why the ring doctor didnt check just by touching Bernards shoulder.
Personally I have no doubt it was a genuine injury, these shoulder injuries happen a lot of you stay in contact sport after 35. The body starts losing minute amounts of muscle all over the body after 30 and some of intricate muscles cant be rebuilt with weight training, and some of the shoulder muscles are very intricate and small. Once they start to go, its a slippery slope and you need to quit sport soon.
Quote:
You can laugh, but I thought Dawson was starting to rough Hopkins up a bit and on his way to winning the fight before it was stopped, and I believe that's part of the reason why Hopkins pulled his con. The primary reason for the con being that Hopkins thought he was hurt worse than he was, and mistakenly thought that Dawson would get DQ'd.
Thank you Bilbo, I didn't bother reading the rest of it.Quote:
Such a stupid post.
Quote:
Nice pic, if in fact this is what happened to Hopkins.
Just curious, isn't an injury like that really painful? If so, why was Hopkins walking around like nothing had happened after the fight? I'm not questioning whether Hopkins had some sort of minor injury, just the severity of it.Quote:
haha ta! I cant completely rule out a corrupt doctor faking the xray from another patient.
But yeah, it would have been obvious the bone wasnt in place just be touch, dont know why the ring doctor didnt check just by touching Bernards shoulder.