http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmG_gR576EA
There you have it, Foreman wanted Tyson and the bout was going to happen but then.....:tumbleweed:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmG_gR576EA
There you have it, Foreman wanted Tyson and the bout was going to happen but then.....:tumbleweed:
Your such a little twat;D
I never said Foreman didnt want to fight. What I said was Mike being "scared" wasnt the reason. In fact, the video reminded me that I read an old stpry that the reason the foght didnt happen is because George wouldnt sign the contrat because of King. Or that was his excuse anyway;)
First of it should be "you're" or "you are"Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
What story is this sir? Where is the proof?
Ah, very nice find. This was also pre-Douglas, so why was there no fight POST Douglas?Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Anybody that thinks old george stood a chance against young tyson is on drugs
George still wanted no part I take it?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAh, very nice find. This was also pre-Douglas, so why was there no fight POST Douglas?Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Maybe he didnt want to try and deal with Mikes speed. I dont doubt he could take a clean shot off Mike without going down but I do doubt that he could make a competative fight and he was probably thinking that himself. He wasnt quick in his youth, let alone his 40's. He took a ton of shots from Holyfield who wasnt as quick or powerfull as Mike.
Oh really? I mean UNLIKE Tyson, Big George lasted the distance vs Evander Holyfield. Even old George would have hammered Tyson not to mention a Prime for Prime matchup, Tyson would have had no chance!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
When was Foremans prime?
For as big, strong and powerfull as he was he never dominated the division. He made one successfull defence in the seventies.
I'm not 100% confident an old Foreman would have beaten Tyson in his prime but I would certainly have gone for him (Prime Foreman isn't even an argument for me, he destroys Tyson) . Foreman was awesome against people who came forward and Tyson didn't go backwards and if it came to a blow for blow fight Foremans chin, Heart and power all outweigh Tysons.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOh really? I mean UNLIKE Tyson, Big George lasted the distance vs Evander Holyfield. Even old George would have hammered Tyson not to mention a Prime for Prime matchup, Tyson would have had no chance!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
He lost to Ali...you're going to hold that against hinm??? Tyson lost to Buster fucking Douglas!!! And even in his 40's George stood toe to toe with Evander Holyfield....something "Iron" Mike attempted and couldn't do.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
he didn't dominate the division because the HW division wasn't in the toilet, it clearly was when Tyson came alongQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
He didnt just lose to Ali though did he. Alao, im wrong, he didnt only make just one successfull defence. It was 2;D
Well it's just a damn shame he didn't get to fight Carl Williams and Pinklon Thomas instead of Ali and FrazierQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
i can explain so many reasons why what your saying is wrong, frankly, to anyone that knows boxing, its a silly argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOh really? I mean UNLIKE Tyson, Big George lasted the distance vs Evander Holyfield. Even old George would have hammered Tyson not to mention a Prime for Prime matchup, Tyson would have had no chance!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
:rolleyes: Aaaahhh....well please enlighten me sensei.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4lifei can explain so many reasons why what your saying is wrong, frankly, to anyone that knows boxing, its a silly argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOh really? I mean UNLIKE Tyson, Big George lasted the distance vs Evander Holyfield. Even old George would have hammered Tyson not to mention a Prime for Prime matchup, Tyson would have had no chance!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
So it's such an inane argument you won't bother me with the details of why I'm wrong???
George Foreman vs Mike Tyson
Height: 6'4 5'10
Weight: 220 (256-260 in comeback) 218 (220 post prison)
Reach: 82" 71"
Plus a couple facts here, Evander Holyfield was the undefeated undisputed heavyweight champion of the world when George Foreman fought him in 1991. When Tyson fought Holyfield, Evander was coming out of retirement due to heart trouble that he had when he lost his titles to Michael Moorer. George Foreman beat all time great 'Smokin' Joe Frazier IN HIS PRIME.....Mike Tyson lost to every single one of the "PRIME" greats he fought, he beat an old ill prepared Larry Holmes.
Another fun fact: Foreman could get off the canvas to win fights....Tyson never did. Oh also, Foreman was only ever stopped 1 time, Tyson was stopped in 100% of his losses which shows a lack of heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Well for one, to say tyson lacks heart is silly, most of his losses were due to lack of training, he would fall getting clocked from pure exhaustion, sure he wasn't disciplined, but guy had heart.
Also evander fought a subpar version of tyson and it was still very competitive(i also think he was juicing at the time) but speculation aside "old" george was way to hittable, he was practically as easy to hit as a punching bag against evander and morrison, and these guys packed no where near the kind of power tyson had, and Tyson had a great chin despite being stopped, like mentioned was always from pure exhaustion.
George was also really slow at the time, and please dont compare tyson to frazier, two totally different beasts, now i am sure young george would give tyson hell, i still say he loses prime vs prime, but no way old george takes even a half way decent tyson(he wasn't halfway decent for douglas), i am sure i missed a lot, but remember Tysons problem was motivation, when he was motivated he was unstoppable,i honestly think he would come prepared for a george foreman
So you're telling me that an old Foreman wouldn't even beat a post-prison "poorly trained" Mike Tyson as well as Prime Foreman wouldn't beat Prime Tyson?
You're right, Frazier was a different beast than Tyson, because Frazier built up steam as the fight wore on, Tyson lost it. Joe Frazier was an all time great and would have been difficult if not impossible for damn near anyone to beat as easily as Foreman did.
When Tyson didn't train properly he lacked head movement, he didn't use angles, he threw 1-2 punches at a time, very few if any combinations, had piss poor stamina and allowed himself to get tied up on the inside. Those shortcomings would make it an easy night's work for Foreman.
96-92, 96-92, 100-93 (the scores of the first fight vs Holyfield) don't seem all that close hell Foreman did very well vs Holyfield landing 41% of his punches even though he was slowed by using the cross block defense and so he couldn't counter effectively.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree here....everything that Foreman had to offer at any point in Tyson's career was just too much
that sounded like a description of old george, but very well, agree to disagree, whats sad is that well never know, this is why i do despise some fighters for not making fights happen when need beQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
....the thing is George Foreman won the lineal championship that way. Meanwhile Tyson struggled to be dominant as a heavyweight ever again...sure he beat the B level fighters, but he'll I can't name you the last A list heavyweight Tyson beat.
Right but what a list heavyweight did old George beat?
When Tyson was champ , and Foreman returned , i did feel it would be a very very interesting matchup, i would have loved to see Tyson be hit be a really big puncher.
At the time Michael Moorer was undefeated and looking pretty good...he just got done beating Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
Lewis is probably the biggest puncher the division has had over the last 20 years? Mike took plenty of his shots and had to be pushed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
....How many rounds did Mike win? THANK YOUQuote:
Originally Posted by rossLewis is probably the biggest puncher the division has had over the last 20 years? Mike took plenty of his shots and had to be pushed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
I was being specific in my comment , at the time id have loved to have seen Foreman v Tyson , and of course Tyson would have thrown plenty of bombs to .Quote:
Originally Posted by rossLewis is probably the biggest puncher the division has had over the last 20 years? Mike took plenty of his shots and had to be pushed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Just for the record how many big shots did Lewis take from Tyson ?
Tyson would have beaten Foreman then, remember Tyson took on Rudduck who was far more dangerous at the time than Old George.
that may well be true , but i was pointing out id have liked to have seen them fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
No way. Ruddock was far too fragile to be regarded as dangerous never mind more dangerous than Foreman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
THISQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuNo way. Ruddock was far too fragile to be regarded as dangerous never mind more dangerous than Foreman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Plus Foreman had power in both hands, didn't need a gimmick punch like "The Smash", and Foreman wasn't enamored of his power he was grown up about it and didn't admire the damager he inflicted until his opponent was down for the count.
Foreman's simple 1-2 could have taken Tyson. That jab alone, how many rounds could Tyson take of that?
I'm not so sure about that. Tommy Morrison DESTROYED Razor Rudduck in 2 rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Tommy ran for 12 rounds from Big George, not daring to stand and trade with him.
Foreman was old, and looked bad against some sub par opposition, but he was still GEORGE FOREMAN. He still had that power and that mystique.
Its why Bert Cooper quit against him after 2 rounds, yet had no fear of going head to head with the likes of Holyfield, Mercer and Moorer.
I honestly think Tyson's chin is overrated, the man got KO'd every time he got beat and was rocked against total shite like Bonecrusher Smith and Frank Bruno. Yes they were big punchers but do you see someone with a genuine chin like an Ali, Frazier or Holyfield being rocked by these bums in their primes? I don't!Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongTHISQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuNo way. Ruddock was far too fragile to be regarded as dangerous never mind more dangerous than Foreman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Plus Foreman had power in both hands, didn't need a gimmick punch like "The Smash", and Foreman wasn't enamored of his power he was grown up about it and didn't admire the damager he inflicted until his opponent was down for the count.
Foreman's simple 1-2 could have taken Tyson. That jab alone, how many rounds could Tyson take of that?
Foreman would have frightened Tyson with his power, Tyson used to rely on frightening his opponents with his power before they even got in the ring and when someone wasn't frightened like Evander and Lewis weren't he got destroyed. I'm fed up of people making excuses for Tyson like he wasn't in shape etc. He came out of prison doing the same thing he did before he went in, and that was destroying bums. He beat a better version of Bruno in better fashion after he came out of prison but just ran into a better fighter in Holyfield and got beat quite easily. Tyson fans just need to accept these FACTS.
Tyson wouldnt have got dropped by Cooper, Wepner and Banks;)
KO'd "every time he got beat" is a really silly metric. You may as well suggest that Tyson was a more skilled and polished boxer than Ali, because Ali lost decisions, and Tyson never did.
Well remember the biggest trouble for Holyfield going into the heavyweight division was that he didn't have the power to be a heavyweight....and he stopped Tyson. Now if we're comparing Tyson to Ali, well Tyson put himself in position to be stopped due to his style whereas Ali did not.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
But I enjoy that the Tyson fans constantly dodge the issue as what would have happened in a fight vs Foreman. Was Foreman "old and slow" yeah...and he still became THE heavyweight champion (something Tyson never accomplished post prison...he had titles but never THE title, he was never considered "A #1 Duke of NY" after prison).
Riddle me this Tyson fans...when exactly was Mike Tyson's prime? If it was "before he left Rooney" then dear God he fought a lot of bums, no wonder he looked so damn invicible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAt the time Michael Moorer was undefeated and looking pretty good...he just got done beating Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
Didnt you say evander was having heart problems? moorer was far from a list, i know u know that deep down, he may have "looked" pretty good, but he wasnt. because evander stuck around, moorer didnt.
aaaahhhhh come on, its not even fair to judge that version of mike tyson vs lewis, its like saying tarver is better than royQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong....How many rounds did Mike win? THANK YOUQuote:
Originally Posted by rossLewis is probably the biggest puncher the division has had over the last 20 years? Mike took plenty of his shots and had to be pushed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Thats because tyson didnt get to fight Michael moorer, Goerge comeback was planned perfectly, the only outstanding guy he fought was evander and he lost, and tyson has fought enough names in his prime to show us what he would do to just about anybody, michael spinks and bruno aren't exactly a list but after what he did to them, its hard to argue anyone else would do better, espeacially grilled sausage eating georgeQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWell remember the biggest trouble for Holyfield going into the heavyweight division was that he didn't have the power to be a heavyweight....and he stopped Tyson. Now if we're comparing Tyson to Ali, well Tyson put himself in position to be stopped due to his style whereas Ali did not.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
But I enjoy that the Tyson fans constantly dodge the issue as what would have happened in a fight vs Foreman. Was Foreman "old and slow" yeah...and he still became THE heavyweight champion (something Tyson never accomplished post prison...he had titles but never THE title, he was never considered "A #1 Duke of NY" after prison).
Riddle me this Tyson fans...when exactly was Mike Tyson's prime? If it was "before he left Rooney" then dear God he fought a lot of bums, no wonder he looked so damn invicible.
Oh and evanders big ass head stopped tyson
George was up for fighting anyone ESPECIALLY Tyson who was the perfect style match for Foreman. Tyson would come straight in, not move his head, be easy to land the 1-2 on, and be easy to tie up and out muscle on the inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
As for who Foreman fought in his comeback compared to who Tyson fought after prison...you tell me who's more dangerous: Bert Cooper, Gerry Cooney, Evander Holyfield, Pierre Coetzer, Tommy Morrison or Peter McNeely, Buster Mathis Jr., Frank Bruno, and Bruce Seldon
Mike had 3 stages to his career. When he wasnt under King, when he was with King and when he left prison.
When Mike wasnt under King he was the nearest any heavy has looked at unbeatable. Even though Marciano retired undefeated, he got dropped and struggled with an old light heavy, he didnt have long left.
Alot of the media weresaying that Mike is invincible and is close to taking Alis greatest crown. Its only since King spoilt him that people are completely disregarding what he did with Rooney as his trainer.
Post prison Mike was just getting paid and was being used to make money.