Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable

Ward gets beat by a prime Calzaghe..

By Scott Gilfoid: Former IBF/WBA/WBC/WBO super middleweight champion Joe Calzaghe (46-0, 32 KO’s) said he got the chance to take on Andre Ward’s latest fight against Carl Froch in the Super Six tournament this past weekend. Calzaghe, 38, said the 27-year-old Ward looked impressive but he thinks he can still be beat.

Here’s what Calzaghe said on his twitter: “Watched the Froch v Ward fight gain. Ward is a good fighter but def beatable.”

Sounds good but who precisely is the person that can beat Ward? Calzaghe doesn’t say but obviously he can’t be referring to himself, as he turns 39 in February and he’s been adamant about not wanting to make a comeback against anyone, period. Even if he were to get a ton of money, Calzaghe has no interest in making a comeback. The thing is with Calzaghe he had the opportunity to fight Ward if he had wanted to back in 2008 when Ward was already showing that he was the class of the super middleweight division. Instead of facing Ward, Calzaghe opted to take fights against older fighters 41-year-old Roy Jones Jr. and 43-year-old Bernard Hopkins and was knocked down by both fighters.

It’s probably a good thing that Calzaghe retired when he did because I think Ward would have easily beaten him. Calzaghe was still in the prime of his career when he retired, so it wouldn’t have been a case of him being old if Ward had done a number on him. Ward is simply better in every area than Calzaghe in my view.

But forgetting the thought of Calzaghe making a comeback, just who does he see that can beat Ward? Mikkel Kessler was already spanked by Ward in 2009. Indeed, Ward beat Kessler much worse than Calzaghe, who struggled to beat Kessler by the 117-111, 116-112 and 116-112 scores. In 11 rounds of action, Ward beat Kessler by the scores 97-93, 98-92 and 98-92. Ward also beat Sakio Bika, a fighter that Calzaghe struggled with, much easier than Calzaghe did. Ward beat him by a 12 round decision by the scores of 120-108, 118-110, and 118-110. Calzaghe defeated Bika by a hard-fought 12 round decision in 2006 by the scores of 117-110, 117-110 and 116-111. Ward looked much better against Bika than Calzaghe.
So who does Calzaghe think can beat Ward?

Carl Froch – Nope! He just got whipped.

Andre Dirrell – he’s a special talent with amazing hand speed, power and defensive skills. Andre might be able to do it if he can get a few more fights under his belt to get the rust off from a year of inactivity.

Anthony Dirrell – Well, possibly but he would be taking a big jump up in competition in facing Ward.

George Groves – no head movement, no power and weak on the inside. He stands no chance ever of beating Ward. This would be a hilarious fight to watch, as Ward would pick Groves apart and knock him out. A very limited fighter. If Calzaghe thinks this guy could beat Ward then he’s really dreaming.

James DeGale – He’ll never be able to beat Ward because he’s too much of a slapper, plodder and lacks the defensive skills. DeGale honestly needs to lose some baby fat and move down in weight to the middleweight division if he wants to amount to anything in boxing. Ward would kill him.

Lucian Bute – This guy can’t block punches and mostly uses his feet to evade punches. Bute has no jab and lives and dies by his power shots. He would get jabbed apart against Ward and lose every round unless the fight were to take place in Canada, where Bute is unbeatable. I could see him losing every round to Ward and still end up having his hand raised at the end if it were to take place over there. But anywhere else in the world, Ward easily wins.

I think it’s pretty clear that Ward would have whipped Calzaghe had the British fighter not up and retired when things were getting hot with Ward taking over the division.

Calzaghe doing and saying everything he can to try and make himself still seem relevant. Pretty funny how this drug addict always commentating how he can beat these current fighters if he was still fighting. Shut the fuck up with that bullshit. Facts don't lie. And facts are you retired to smoke crack when you saw all the potential threats that were coming up. Instead of facing them and risking your 0 in the process you decided to run and hide. And now here you are spitting nonsense for some attention.

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

Its all armchair quarterbacking, kind of an empty assessment and nil on detail. I mean I'm sure Tocker pudwill thought Calzaghe was beatable too ???

Calzaghe was one of the very few white men who fought to a black rhythm.. He was extra special.

Ward gets outclassed here.

A prime Calzaghe would just overwhelm Ward at this point in his career. However, the Calzaghe that fought Roy Jones would be in for a long night. I'm not sure he'd win that one.

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Calzaghe was one of the very few white men who fought to a black rhythm.. He was extra special.

Ward gets outclassed here.

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Calzaghe was very special and I rate him higher than Hopkins and give him a fair shot at outworking prime Jones. He really was that good.

I find it laughable to even put Ward in the same category as those fighters. Allan Green? A years later Kessler? Froch who was always limited? Bika who hasn't beaten anybody?

Ward is becoming a little like Lacy was, but unlike Lacy Ward has no Calzaghe on the horizon. Bute might be able to beat him, but Bute is no Calzaghe.

I think Ward takes any version of Calzaghe. Joe has 2 legends on his resume and both were 10+ years past their primes. Both would have totally outclassed him in their primes and Ward is the closest thing to Roy Jones I've seen at 168 since Jones was in his prime. Calzaghe knew this which is why even in 2002 when he was offered the Jones fight he rejected and waited a few more years until the cracks in Jones that were just about starting to show in 2002 had become great big gaping holes.

Also Calzaghe in his prime IMO went tooth and nail with Kessler, Ward just whooped him.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Calzaghe was one of the very few white men who fought to a black rhythm.. He was extra special.

Ward gets outclassed here.

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Calzaghe was very special and I rate him higher than Hopkins and give him a fair shot at outworking prime Jones. He really was that good.

I find it laughable to even put Ward in the same category as those fighters. Allan Green? A years later Kessler? Froch who was always limited? Bika who hasn't beaten anybody?

Ward is becoming a little like Lacy was, but unlike Lacy Ward has no Calzaghe on the horizon. Bute might be able to beat him, but Bute is no Calzaghe.

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Take away the ancient Jones and Hopkins and Calzaghe best 2 opponents are who? That's right. Kessler and Bika

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Calzaghe was one of the very few white men who fought to a black rhythm.. He was extra special.

Ward gets outclassed here.

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I've just never mixed Calzaghe and the term rhythm together :cwm13: Al 'fuckin Jolson he was not :D

Calslappy gets owned by Ward at any point. Too smart. Gandalf you seriously compared Ward to Lacy?? Calzaghe was good but outwork a prime Roy Jones?? You're on that same shit JC's on..

Only prime fighter worth a damn he EVER fought was Kessler..waste!

I like calzaghe, and think he would have won a ud against ward, something semi competitive but a clear win for joe. However he choose to retire with no plans of comin back so why is he even makin this statement, everyone is beatable...

I'm not on the white stuff, just extremely hungover, but I am very high on Joe Calzaghe. I think he is one of the true greats and matches up against anyone in the history of his division, including Roy Jones.

I've seen it mentioned in this thread that Ward reminds people of Jones Jr, but they are nothing alike really. Completely different styles, Ward reminds me of Hopkins much more than Jones who really was a sublimely gifted athlete. Jones Jr's basics were all wrong, but he never needed them. Ward has the crafts honed extremely well. But I think he has stamina issues and a high output fighter like Calzaghe outworks him completely.

I say Lacy in terms of overhyped and Ward to me is overrated. I don't see a particularly great fighter at all. The American's need their name SMW and they have him, but Calzaghe eats those for breakfast.

People are always quick to pick holes in Calzaghe's resume, but you can do the same with Hopkins (CW's are his biggest wins) and Jones Jr (a lot of taxi drivers). Calzaghe's resume is very respectable and he never lost. He always found a way and old Hopkins was a more difficult win for Calzaghe than a young Hopkins who would have given Joe more opportunities. Calzaghe fought a man grown into LHW, Hopkins in his younger days was only ever a MW and would have been the man going up for the first time.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I say Lacy in terms of overhyped and Ward to me is overrated. I don't see a particularly great fighter at all. The American's need their name SMW and they have him, but Calzaghe eats those for breakfast.

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Conversely, the Brits/Europeans need their name SMW and they have him, but Ward eats those for breakfast...

Calzaghe's resume is very respectable and he never lost? Gee, who else does that sound like?

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I say Lacy in terms of overhyped and Ward to me is overrated. I don't see a particularly great fighter at all. The American's need their name SMW and they have him, but Calzaghe eats those for breakfast.

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Conversely, the Brits/Europeans need their name SMW and they have him, but Ward eats those for breakfast...

Calzaghe's resume is very respectable and he never lost? Gee, who else does that sound like?

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Ward has beaten Froch who Calzaghe would NEVER have lost a round against. Froch throwing 40 punches a round, slowly and missing most or Calzaghe and his 100 punch buzzsaw combinations from all kinds of awkward angles. It's Calzaghe easily.

Calzaghe beat a prime Kessler, unbeaten and full of confidence and took him to school with sublime boxing. No cheating, no spoiling, just brilliant showmanship and class. Ward couldn't do it without going all John Ruiz and Billy Goat Gruff.

Calzaghe is a different league to someone like Ward. Ward may be the S.O.G, but Calzaghe is God himself. It is father and son and the son would get a spanking. Ward just couldn't keep up and would be befuddled by the different things Calzaghe can do. All Ward can do is try to make it ugly, but that wouldn't be very Christian.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

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i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

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i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

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Precisely.

Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.

Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.

It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.

Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.

Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.

It's funny cos considering froch has limitations he doesn't get tired! Also the wars froch fight was very close.

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

It's funny cos considering froch has limitations he doesn't get tired! Also the wars froch fight was very close.

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I don't think it was particularly close in that I had it 9-3 to Froch, but the way Ward started to fade late on was quite shocking to me. A great fighter doesn't fade down the stretch like that. You didn't see Calzaghe beating up on Lacy for 10 rounds and then suddenly getting all panicky and looking like he had seen a ghost.

The Froch/Ward fight hasn't impressed me all that much and in fact it only enhances my views regarding the limitations that Ward has. He has stamina issues and Calzaghe is the one person who you don't go into a fight with knowing that you are going to fade down the stretch and that fade would come far sooner as Calzaghe will force you to fight at his pace. Hopkins tried to slow him down through spoiling, but that doesn't stop you being heavily outworked. Calzaghe is still throwing more and landing more than you. Hopkins never fades down the stretch, he did badly against Calzaghe. Ward doesn't have Hopkins stamina and against both Bika and Froch he faded.

Wards stamina is his achilles heel and I don't think his chin has been proven either. And he is suddenly P4P quality and on a par with great SMW's? It's a nonsense.

Calzaghe is god himself!?
Wow!
Calzaghe is a great fighter but compared to khan, hatton and froch with taking risks he falls way down the league..and that is a huge letdown for him.

He should take a risk and come back and beat ward which he probably could but he wont because ward is not over 40.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

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i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

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Precisely.

Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.

Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.

It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.

Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.

Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.

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Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

You can actually see the effectiveness of Ward in some of the arguments his detractors posit against him. First, he makes a fighter look really bad; then, the fact that the fighter looked bad is taken as evidence that Ward isn't that good. Don't kid yourself; the Kessler that Calzaghe beat isn't significantly different than the Kessler that Ward beat two years later.

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Originally Posted by imp

Calzaghe is god himself!?
Wow!
Calzaghe is a great fighter but compared to khan, hatton and froch with taking risks he falls way down the league..and that is a huge letdown for him.

He should take a risk and come back and beat ward which he probably could but he wont because ward is not over 40.

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No way should Calzaghe come back to fight Ward. He has been out too long and his style isn't for an old fighter. Calzaghe did well to even be going at 36. People talk about Jones and Hopkins being too old, but it was Calzaghe who always had the young man style. Massive output and stamina and to still have it at 36 was remarkable. Show me Khan, Hatton or Froch at 36.

Calzaghe was the man for a decade and who else was he supposed to beat? People pick on Calzaghe, but bar Sven Ottke he beat everyone on the radar.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

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i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

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Precisely.

Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.

Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.

It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.

Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.

Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.

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Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

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I think he has the better tools and would do a better job than what he did. So perhaps, but I am less certain than I am with Calzaghe because Calzaghe is such a leap above Kessler. Kessler of then and Ward today are much more equal, but which side of the pendulum it's hard to tell exactly.

I also think the Kessler of today would do better in rematch with Ward because we all know exactly what Ward is about. I think there is little doubt that Kessler took Ward lightly and was flummoxed by the dirty tactics. He would be aware, but Kessler needs to be active for us to truly evaluate what he still is.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

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kessler has gone way down hill

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe was the man for a decade and who else was he supposed to beat? People pick on Calzaghe, but bar Sven Ottke he beat everyone on the radar.

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Who's Ward supposed to beat? Obviously, we can't assess his longevity for a while, but just in the last 2 1/2 years, he's beaten Miranda, Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika, and Froch.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

You can actually see the effectiveness of Ward in some of the arguments his detractors posit against him. First, he makes a fighter look really bad; then, the fact that the fighter looked bad is taken as evidence that Ward isn't that good. Don't kid yourself; the Kessler that Calzaghe beat isn't significantly different than the Kessler that Ward beat two years later.

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Yeah! Kessler is Kessler! Come on guys!... Use your head






















Cos unlike Calzaghe, Ward sure as fuck used his! :D

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

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kessler has gone way down hill

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Really? Based on what? Because other than Ward, he's beaten everyone put in front of him since Calzaghe (including Froch), most by knockout. Or maybe he just looks like he's gone way downhill because Ward made him look that bad.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe was the man for a decade and who else was he supposed to beat? People pick on Calzaghe, but bar Sven Ottke he beat everyone on the radar.

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Who's Ward supposed to beat? Obviously, we can't assess his longevity for a while, but just in the last 2 1/2 years, he's beaten Miranda, Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika, and Froch.

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I think Kessler deserves a rematch. Bute would be a logical fight. Also Hopkins and maybe down the line a fight with Chad Dawson.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe would have beaten Ward without question. Ward would be tricky for 4 rounds, but once Calzaghe starts to work, that is when Ward begins to fall. Ward starts to tire against the like of Bika and a low output Froch, Calzaghe would just destroy him.

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i agree with this

wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds

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Precisely.

Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.

Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.

It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.

Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.

Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.

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Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?

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I think he has the better tools and would do a better job than what he did. So perhaps, but I am less certain than I am with Calzaghe because Calzaghe is such a leap above Kessler. Kessler of then and Ward today are much more equal, but which side of the pendulum it's hard to tell exactly.

I also think the Kessler of today would do better in rematch with Ward because we all know exactly what Ward is about. I think there is little doubt that Kessler took Ward lightly and was flummoxed by the dirty tactics. He would be aware, but Kessler needs to be active for us to truly evaluate what he still is.

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Well, which is it? I thought the Calzaghe win over Kessler was more impressive because that was the undefeated, confident Kessler; but now Kessler lost to Ward because he was too confident? Perhaps Kessler was too confident for the Calzaghe fight, and would have beaten him in a rematch (yeah, that's a joke, but seriously, neither Kessler nor Froch belongs on the Ward/Calzaghe discussion. They're both markedly worse than Calzaghe and Ward. Let's be serious).

Calzaghe beat Kessler clearly and comfortably, but he didn't "destroy" him, and he wouldn't have destroyed Ward, who is faster, more versatile, and just all-around better than Kessler. Of course, I think that it's equally silly to think that a prime Ward (which we may not have seen yet) would "destroy" a prime Calzaghe. Personally, I think it'd be a hell of a fight, and if they fought three times, I think 2-1 one way or the other is more likely than 3-0.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe was the man for a decade and who else was he supposed to beat? People pick on Calzaghe, but bar Sven Ottke he beat everyone on the radar.

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Who's Ward supposed to beat? Obviously, we can't assess his longevity for a while, but just in the last 2 1/2 years, he's beaten Miranda, Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika, and Froch.

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I think Kessler deserves a rematch. Bute would be a logical fight. Also Hopkins and maybe down the line a fight with Chad Dawson.

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Did Kessler deserve a rematch against Calzaghe? Did Hopkins?

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Calzaghe was the man for a decade and who else was he supposed to beat? People pick on Calzaghe, but bar Sven Ottke he beat everyone on the radar.

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Who's Ward supposed to beat? Obviously, we can't assess his longevity for a while, but just in the last 2 1/2 years, he's beaten Miranda, Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika, and Froch.

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I think Kessler deserves a rematch. Bute would be a logical fight. Also Hopkins and maybe down the line a fight with Chad Dawson.

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Did Kessler deserve a rematch against Calzaghe? Did Hopkins?

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No, because neither of those fighters had the skillset to deal with Calzaghe. Calzaghe/Kessler was a clean fight. Hopkins/Calzaghe wasn't clean, but it was decisive.

Kessler/Ward was extremely tarnished and foul play was stamped all over it. Kessler didn't deserve to be held and rammed all evening.

Hopkins didn't have the skillset to deal with Calzaghe? You wouldn't have known it from the judges' cards or the knockdown. You're kind of moving the goalposts a bit when you talk about Ward/Kessler and Calzaghe/Hopkins. You say that Calzaghe/Hopkins "wasn't clean, but it was decisive." Well, Ward/Kessler, even if it wasn't clean, was decisive.

At a comparable age, there's no contest in their resumes; Ward has it all over Calzaghe. He's beaten the Ring Magazine #2, 3, 5, and 9. Calzaghe's level of competition at the same age pales in comparison. Calzaghe's resume was made in the later years. We'll have to see what Ward does in the next 10 years. That doesn't mean that a 27 year old Ward would beat a 27 year old Calzaghe; but he's certainly demonstrated his clear superiority over more of the top 168-pounders than Calzaghe did at this stage.

Hopkins did have they skills to match calzaghe but he doesnt have the workrate and thats what won it for calzaghe.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Hopkins didn't have the skillset to deal with Calzaghe? You wouldn't have known it from the judges' cards or the knockdown. You're kind of moving the goalposts a bit when you talk about Ward/Kessler and Calzaghe/Hopkins. You say that Calzaghe/Hopkins "wasn't clean, but it was decisive." Well, Ward/Kessler, even if it wasn't clean, was decisive.

At a comparable age, there's no contest in their resumes; Ward has it all over Calzaghe. He's beaten the Ring Magazine #2, 3, 5, and 9. Calzaghe's level of competition at the same age pales in comparison. Calzaghe's resume was made in the later years. We'll have to see what Ward does in the next 10 years. That doesn't mean that a 27 year old Ward would beat a 27 year old Calzaghe; but he's certainly demonstrated his clear superiority over more of the top 168-pounders than Calzaghe did at this stage.

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calzaghe didnt have the benefit of the ring mag ratings or the supersix

but yes ward has a better record at the same point in their careers

still, calzaghe would win the fight

ward just isnt that good and doesnt have the stamina

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Hopkins didn't have the skillset to deal with Calzaghe? You wouldn't have known it from the judges' cards or the knockdown. You're kind of moving the goalposts a bit when you talk about Ward/Kessler and Calzaghe/Hopkins. You say that Calzaghe/Hopkins "wasn't clean, but it was decisive." Well, Ward/Kessler, even if it wasn't clean, was decisive.

At a comparable age, there's no contest in their resumes; Ward has it all over Calzaghe. He's beaten the Ring Magazine #2, 3, 5, and 9. Calzaghe's level of competition at the same age pales in comparison. Calzaghe's resume was made in the later years. We'll have to see what Ward does in the next 10 years. That doesn't mean that a 27 year old Ward would beat a 27 year old Calzaghe; but he's certainly demonstrated his clear superiority over more of the top 168-pounders than Calzaghe did at this stage.

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Not really. I just mean that Hopkins fought dirty, but still got his just desserts. With Kessler/Ward the cheater won thus making it relatively inconclusive.

Joe Calzaghe fought decent opposition during his career. It's just that amongst the defences there was some crap too, but the same can be said of Hopkins and Jones as well. What makes Allan Green a decent opponent? What makes someone like Miranda a good opponent? These are nothing that Calzaghe himself didn't fight relatively early as champion. Seriously, people are putting Ward on a pedestal and it's really just a lot of hype. Allan Green hasn't beaten anyone. Miranda loses all of his big fights.

Calzaghe fought and beat everyone there was to beat, nothing more could have been accomplished. Ward has done well for himself too, but I don't think he is as good as the hype is suggesting and in fact I think Froch has shown the flaws, but to take advantage you do need to be very good and Calzaghe wasn't only very good, he was exceptional. Calzaghe would have wiped the floor with Ward and I intrinsically believe that. Calzaghe is all wrong for Ward and to beat him you are going to have to outwork him and tire him and that was Calzaghe's modus operandi.

Calzaghe would have owned the Super 6 had he been allowed to travel through time and take his peak self to the start of it. The Super 6 is full of decent fighters, but they are not exceptional. Very few fighters are exceptional. I see discipline and craft in Ward, but nothing exceptional. He is a grafter and good at it, but Calzaghe is a different level stylistically. With Ward the blueprint is kind of there, but nobody has a clue how to beat Joe Calzaghe.

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Originally Posted by littlebif

Hopkins did have they skills to match calzaghe but he doesnt have the workrate and thats what won it for calzaghe.

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The stamina and workrate is part of the skillset. Either you can throw that much or you can't. Calzaghe's output was an ability and you have to include it as one of his tools. Hopkins has never had it in him to throw a hundred punches in a round. It is one of the things that makes Calzaghe great.

Ward's resume is already better than Calzaghe's and he's still got big fights and his prime left. Can't say if he's great yet need to see him for a few more years.

Every fighter in the history of the sport is beatable, it's just about styles.

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Originally Posted by Manos de Piedra

Ward's resume is already better than Calzaghe's and he's still got big fights and his prime left. Can't say if he's great yet need to see him for a few more years.

Every fighter in the history of the sport is beatable, it's just about styles.

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How is his resume better than Calzaghe's?

He has beaten two Calzaghe leftovers and has a bunch of middling fighters like Abraham, Miranda and Green. He could potentially have a better resume than that of Calzaghe, but at the same time where are the names he could fight? He has to fight Bute and then maybe move up and fight the likes of Dawson, Hopkins and Cloud, but as things stand I don't think his resume is better than Calzaghe's and people have selective amnesia when it comes to who Calzaghe fought in his early years as champ. People like Reid, Sheika, Eubank and Mitchell are every bit as significant as Abraham et al. Are we really going to suggest that Allan Green would have beaten even a shop worn Eubank? It is nonsense.

Wards resume is decent enough, but I don't see how it is superior to that of Calzaghe.

I think the opinion was that if Froch won the super six, his legacy would be better than that of Calzaghe. This was a thread we discussed in depth , well didnt Ward win the super six ?

Ward beat a much better opposition than Calzaghe , how can Mr Play it safe find fault with Ward.
Isnt a fool wise after the event.