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Showtime apparently want Bute to fight an American fighter. Thats shit, I was looking forward to this fight, its a shame how televison can block such a big high profile match up which no doubt would have been a war. Both fighters come to fight, why has showtime done this?
Who will Bute fight now? and the same for Froch ?
Good shit.. I dont mind Froch but Bute needs to fight a bigger threat..
Stylewise, it's kinda obvious that Froch is going to lose anyways.
Bute must be in a 50-50 fight...
The Matrix Dirrell!!!!
This makes no sense AT ALL UNLESS they can line up Ward or Dirrell for Bute. If they can then fair enough it makes sense. There is no one else though and Ward already said he wasnt that interested right now. If you see Bute in with anyone bar Froch, Dirrell or Ward then something BS has gone on.
Maybe Bute is going to fight Hopkins or Dawson. Pascal even, would be massive in Canada.
Last I heard Froch was chasing Cleverly.
Seems like a strange fight to reject.
Bute has a much better chance of beating Froch than he does Dirrell, Ward, or the two LHW fighters.
Didn't Froch just lose his last fight virtually by whitewash...on Showtime ??? Wouldn't they be pushing a slighted product. I like Froch and think he can build back but after the two year tourney maybe Showtime wants to get more faces involved.
Actually it makes perfect sense. Showtime isn't trying to pay for fights just cuz name fighters are fighting in it. It's looking for competitive fights. People can say what they want. But in reality Froch was out classed in his lopsided loss to Ward. The scores were bullshit. Really it was hard to give Froch 2 rounds in that fight. The chances of Froch losing 11 rounds to 1 to Bute are pretty damn high. Not really surprised Showtime rejected it.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_C
Meh, this is why boxing has become a 3rd rate sport in the U.S. Things like this marginalizes the sport even further, not that it's not an marginalized sport already.
Boxing is bigger in uk than us.
Froch won't get bute unless they both sign a deal with sky sports to fight, the fight would be taken on by hbo I reckon, it's been rejected because show time have power and that's why ward never left the America!!! Bingo
The ONLY American that could possibly be bigger than Froch is Hopkins (seeing as Ward ruled himself out). Where did Hearn say this?
The reason Froch-Bute wont happen is the rematch deal. If Bute beats Froch he's not leaving Canada in a million years to rematch him in England. That's just nonsense.
Eff Bute.
It's a virtual cert that Froch will have an overdue homecoming fight in Nottingham then get the Kessler-Stieglitz winner, which can also be made in England, for a "world" title. This gives Froch TWO primetime fights on Sky at home.
This was going to be an interesting fight. Who gives a shit what Froch looked like against Ward. He finished stronger and was always there. It would have been an interesting fight against Bute because I dont believe Bute would spoil like Ward. Look at Butes fight with Magee, I cant remember what round, maybe 3 or 4 but Magee has a good round and actually stuns Bute, makes his legs go and he has to hold!
I read this on boxing scene I just think it's the fans who are losing out the most with this fight not happening. Froch - Bute was the second biggest fight to be made at 168 behind Ward - Bute. I won't mind if Bute fights Ward instead of Froch but if Bute fights Hopkins I'll be disappointed. I'd settle for Bute - Andre Dirrell, but I'd still like Dirrell maybe to have one more big fight before Bute. I think Froch deserves a Bute showdown more than Dirrell at this stage.
As for Froch he's comfortably making 168, I would like him to stay there. I think if this fight has officially fallen through he should try and fight Kessler again in the UK. He should have one fight in the mean time before then, and push for Kessler. But if he wants to go down the 175 route I would be a little dissapointed because I feel he should push for a Kessler rematch and a Bute fight.
Fuck it why doesn't froch just fight Magee again or Andrade? Those guys will travel and wouldn't mind fighting froch
Froch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
It's bute who wants the clause incase he loses his belt and he wants the first leg in Canada so he can pull out of the rematch, this guy doesn't want to fight froch
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bute is the champion, right? He's not the fighter coming off a lopsided loss. For Froch to have any demands is foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
How the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So what your saying is you support the ridiculous idea of challengers demanding a rematch clause, right? Or is it only when it benefits a UK fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So if Bute-Froch were to look like Ward-Froch there would be a rematch? Everybody know the fight was lopsided but the moronic scores say otherwise. A rematch would be meaningless.
well the contracted agreement said if it was a KO within 6 rounds or a one sided decision either way then there wouldn't be a rematch so to answer your question...no there wouldn't be a rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is you support the ridiculous idea of challengers demanding a rematch clause, right? Or is it only when it benefits a UK fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So if Bute-Froch were to look like Ward-Froch there would be a rematch? Everybody know the fight was lopsided but the moronic scores say otherwise. A rematch would be meaningless.
The moronic scores for Ward-Froch suggest it was a close fight when in reality it wasn't. There shouldn't be a rematch but I can easily see Froch pushing for one using the scores to support his case.
Froch doesn't deserve a rematch against Ward at this momment in time and he should be trying to keep well away from one. I was talking about Froch - Bute saying if the fight wasnt at all close there wouldn't be a rematch that was part of the agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Finito - you're not making 100% sense here. Dirrell fought tooth and nails with Froch. Sure, there is an argument Dirrell won that fight although I believe the correct view is that Direll lost that fight not that Froch won, if that makes sense, and I chalk it up Dirrell's loss to ring immaturity. If Dirrell and Froch fought close and Froch got the nod, why shouldn't Bute fight the winner. In addition, if Froch isn't a big threat, why the accolades and praise heeped on Andre Ward? It makes more sense that if Ward does not want to face Bute, shouldn't Bute fight the combatant who placed second in the super six? And frankly, the only person the Matrix needs to see is Andre Ward after it appeared he ducked him in the S6 tournament. Moreover, Froch didn't duck anyone in the tournament. Who deserves a big fight more, Froch or Dirrell?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
No I'm saying I don't even regard Bute as champion. His silly IBF belt means NOTHING when it comes to comparing him with the worlds best supermiddles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is you support the ridiculous idea of challengers demanding a rematch clause, right? Or is it only when it benefits a UK fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So if Bute-Froch were to look like Ward-Froch there would be a rematch? Everybody know the fight was lopsided but the moronic scores say otherwise. A rematch would be meaningless.
It's real simple to understand -
Fighter A spends the last two years challenging all the best fighters in the world. Even willing to constantly give-up home-advantage. In the process he loses his own title. He's fighting the very best, so obviously has more chance of losing.
Fighter B wins an alphabet title. Spends four years at home defending it against "bums/leftovers."
Now how the fuck can any serious fan regard fighter B as the "champ."
Bute should be BEHIND Froch in the rankings. He shouldn't have any right to dictate terms to a fighter with a far superior resume.
To repeat - If it's lopsided or a KO the rematch is scrapped. They're asking for a rematch if it's CLOSE. They (Team FRoch) admitted the scorecards were wrong in the Ward fight. That's why no-one cares for a rematch.
However, what if it's like Bute-Andrade 1? What if Froch knocks him out but they still award Bute the victory? Does Froch, the fighter with the far superior record, the former two time alpahbet holder, the super-six finalist, NOT deserve a rematch? And why the fuck should he go back to Canada for it.
Come on now, lets keep it real (IBF means superiority?.. deary, deary me :rolleyes:)
The whole point about rematch as I understand it is that Froch wants a fight in Nottingham. Froch is hedging against the possibility that something like what happened in the Peterson v. Khan fight happens in Montreal. Moreover, Froch deserves a fight in Notthingham as he has been fighting on the road for most of the last three years.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
To suggest, however, that Bute isn't in the driver's seat here in terms of negotations is incorrect. Bute is undefeated, has a belt, and fills stadiums in Montreal. Bute also has looked better against common opposition. Yet, Froch is the best fight available for Bute right now if Ward won't fight him. Froch should take his fair share of the pot--No doubt about it.
Fenster can't help himself from disparaging Bute. Fenster, we've danced this jig before so I'll bit my toungue and deal with your provocative remarks regarding Bute. Make no mistake though, Fenster, if they sign to fight, you and I are doing a sigbet, my friend. :punchangry:Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNo I'm saying I don't even regard Bute as champion. His silly IBF belt means NOTHING when it comes to comparing him with the worlds best supermiddles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is you support the ridiculous idea of challengers demanding a rematch clause, right? Or is it only when it benefits a UK fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So if Bute-Froch were to look like Ward-Froch there would be a rematch? Everybody know the fight was lopsided but the moronic scores say otherwise. A rematch would be meaningless.
It's real simple to understand -
Fighter A spends the last two years challenging all the best fighters in the world. Even willing to constantly give-up home-advantage. In the process he loses his own title. He's fighting the very best, so obviously has more chance of losing.
Fighter B wins an alphabet title. Spends four years at home defending it against "bums/leftovers."
Now how the fuck can any serious fan regard fighter B as the "champ."
Bute should be BEHIND Froch in the rankings. He shouldn't have any right to dictate terms to a fighter with a far superior resume.
To repeat - If it's lopsided or a KO the rematch is scrapped. They're asking for a rematch if it's CLOSE. They (Team FRoch) admitted the scorecards were wrong in the Ward fight. That's why no-one cares for a rematch.
However, what if it's like Bute-Andrade 1? What if Froch knocks him out but they still award Bute the victory? Does Froch, the fighter with the far superior record, the former two time alpahbet holder, the super-six finalist, NOT deserve a rematch? And why the fuck should he go back to Canada for it.
Come on now, lets keep it real (IBF means superiority?.. deary, deary me :rolleyes:)
Well there's ZERO point in Froch facing Bute then. Froch hasn't fought in England for over two years. He easily has the profile now to fill a "stadium." If he wins an alphabet next year that puts him on a par with Bute and will obviously get a much better deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe whole point about rematch as I understand it is that Froch wants a fight in Nottingham. Froch is hedging against the possibility that something like what happened in the Peterson v. Khan fight happens in Montreal. Moreover, Froch deserves a fight in Notthingham as he has been fighting on the road for most of the last three years.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
To suggest, however, that Bute isn't in the driver's seat here in terms of negotations is incorrect. Bute is undefeated, has a belt, and fills stadiums in Montreal. Bute also has looked better against common opposition. Yet, Froch is the best fight available for Bute right now if Ward won't fight him. Froch should take his fair share of the pot--No doubt about it.
How has Bute done better against common opposition?
Froch KO'd Tatevosyan. Bute beat him on PTS.
Froch KO'd Magee. Bute KO'd Magee.
Froch beat Johnson on PTS. Bute beat Johnson on PTS.
Looks like Froch rates higher due to the Tatevosyan KO ;)
I'm talking about the same thing. Using Ward-Froch as an example. Which was a lopsided fight deemed close by moronic scorecards. Do they rematch than?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam SeddonFroch doesn't deserve a rematch against Ward at this momment in time and he should be trying to keep well away from one. I was talking about Froch - Bute saying if the fight wasnt at all close there wouldn't be a rematch that was part of the agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I haven't insulted Bute in the slightest. I'm merely making a comparison between him and one of the worlds proven best supermiddles. Quite simply - FRoch has the form in the book, as of yet Bute does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratFenster can't help himself from disparaging Bute. Fenster, we've danced this jig before so I'll bit my toungue and deal with your provocative remarks regarding Bute. Make no mistake though, Fenster, if they sign to fight, you and I are doing a sigbet, my friend. :punchangry:Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNo I'm saying I don't even regard Bute as champion. His silly IBF belt means NOTHING when it comes to comparing him with the worlds best supermiddles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is you support the ridiculous idea of challengers demanding a rematch clause, right? Or is it only when it benefits a UK fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So if Bute-Froch were to look like Ward-Froch there would be a rematch? Everybody know the fight was lopsided but the moronic scores say otherwise. A rematch would be meaningless.
It's real simple to understand -
Fighter A spends the last two years challenging all the best fighters in the world. Even willing to constantly give-up home-advantage. In the process he loses his own title. He's fighting the very best, so obviously has more chance of losing.
Fighter B wins an alphabet title. Spends four years at home defending it against "bums/leftovers."
Now how the fuck can any serious fan regard fighter B as the "champ."
Bute should be BEHIND Froch in the rankings. He shouldn't have any right to dictate terms to a fighter with a far superior resume.
To repeat - If it's lopsided or a KO the rematch is scrapped. They're asking for a rematch if it's CLOSE. They (Team FRoch) admitted the scorecards were wrong in the Ward fight. That's why no-one cares for a rematch.
However, what if it's like Bute-Andrade 1? What if Froch knocks him out but they still award Bute the victory? Does Froch, the fighter with the far superior record, the former two time alpahbet holder, the super-six finalist, NOT deserve a rematch? And why the fuck should he go back to Canada for it.
Come on now, lets keep it real (IBF means superiority?.. deary, deary me :rolleyes:)
I think Bute will beat Froch.
Who I think wins is utterly irrelevant to my argument though ;)
You provocative son of a gun. Listen, you and I both know, whether you choose to acknowledge it is a different question, but we both know that Bute beat Johnson and Magee better than Froch. What I'll give you is that Froch faced them first. Frequently it is forgotten that Bute also beat Bika soundly.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterWell there's ZERO point in Froch facing Bute then. Froch hasn't fought in England for over two years. He easily has the profile now to fill a "stadium." If he wins an alphabet next year that puts him on a par with Bute and will obviously get a much better deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe whole point about rematch as I understand it is that Froch wants a fight in Nottingham. Froch is hedging against the possibility that something like what happened in the Peterson v. Khan fight happens in Montreal. Moreover, Froch deserves a fight in Notthingham as he has been fighting on the road for most of the last three years.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
To suggest, however, that Bute isn't in the driver's seat here in terms of negotations is incorrect. Bute is undefeated, has a belt, and fills stadiums in Montreal. Bute also has looked better against common opposition. Yet, Froch is the best fight available for Bute right now if Ward won't fight him. Froch should take his fair share of the pot--No doubt about it.
How has Bute done better against common opposition?
Froch KO'd Tatevosyan. Bute beat him on PTS.
Froch KO'd Magee. Bute KO'd Magee.
Froch beat Johnson on PTS. Bute beat Johnson on PTS.
Looks like Froch rates higher due to the Tatevosyan KO ;)
No because a rematch clause to my knowledge wasn't part of the inital contracted deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI'm talking about the same thing. Using Ward-Froch as an example. Which was a lopsided fight deemed close by moronic scorecards. Do they rematch than?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam SeddonFroch doesn't deserve a rematch against Ward at this momment in time and he should be trying to keep well away from one. I was talking about Froch - Bute saying if the fight wasnt at all close there wouldn't be a rematch that was part of the agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Froch was part of a tournament to find out the divisions best fighter. So of course he was gonna fight top fighters. Arthur Abraham did the same thing. Should he be calling shots to? Come on now. Froch is the challenger coming off a bad loss. He's 2-2 in his last 4 fights and by alrights should be 2-3 in his last 5. He's in no position to try and make demands.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNo I'm saying I don't even regard Bute as champion. His silly IBF belt means NOTHING when it comes to comparing him with the worlds best supermiddles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is you support the ridiculous idea of challengers demanding a rematch clause, right? Or is it only when it benefits a UK fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So if Bute-Froch were to look like Ward-Froch there would be a rematch? Everybody know the fight was lopsided but the moronic scores say otherwise. A rematch would be meaningless.
It's real simple to understand -
Fighter A spends the last two years challenging all the best fighters in the world. Even willing to constantly give-up home-advantage. In the process he loses his own title. He's fighting the very best, so obviously has more chance of losing.
Fighter B wins an alphabet title. Spends four years at home defending it against "bums/leftovers."
Now how the fuck can any serious fan regard fighter B as the "champ."
Bute should be BEHIND Froch in the rankings. He shouldn't have any right to dictate terms to a fighter with a far superior resume.
To repeat - If it's lopsided or a KO the rematch is scrapped. They're asking for a rematch if it's CLOSE. They (Team FRoch) admitted the scorecards were wrong in the Ward fight. That's why no-one cares for a rematch.
However, what if it's like Bute-Andrade 1? What if Froch knocks him out but they still award Bute the victory? Does Froch, the fighter with the far superior record, the former two time alpahbet holder, the super-six finalist, NOT deserve a rematch? And why the fuck should he go back to Canada for it.
Come on now, lets keep it real (IBF means superiority?.. deary, deary me :rolleyes:)
And enough with the Froch goes every where to fight like enjoys being a road warrior. That's bullshit. The man bitched, complained and threatened to pull out the tournament at least 3 times cuz he couldn't fight at home. It took legal action and a compromise to even get him to fight Abraham. Real fucking warrior
Froch and Bute should happen 2nd and 3rd best super middles in the world fighting one another. The fight will be more competitive but agree if Bute wins he will not want to fight in the UK. If Froch cannot get the Bute fight he should chase Kessler for the rematch, and he could have a UK fight in the interim period and maybe beat up Groves or Degale.
Direll does not deserve a shot yet. Froch should not even think about going up to light heavy yet either.
I'm betting Bute-Hopkins is the fight that will get made. Hopkins has been saying that's the fight he wants ever since the Dawson fiasco. And Hopkins has said throughout that the fight would happen in Montreal. Personally, I'd rather see Bute/Froch (and Hopkins/Dawson -- I'm in that minority), but I think Hopkins/Bute may be the more competitive (if less exciting) fight.
Has everyone read what Ward said about facing Hopkins? He said that it didn't make sense to face Hopkins because if you beat Hopkins, the critics will say that Hopkins was an old man, and thus, the win doesn't mean much. If you loses to Hopkins, the critics say you are overrated and should face a young gun. So, what's the upside to Bute facing him?Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
1. I disagree with Ward that critics would say a win over Hopkins "doesn't mean much." He just beat Pacal (twice, if the first one had been scored right) and there's a reason Dawson is gunning so hard to try to get a rematch. BHop's certainly past his prime but I'd still pick him to beat Bute at this point -- and would give Bute huge credit if he pulled off what I'd consider an upset; more credit than I'd give him for beating Carl Froch, for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratHas everyone read what Ward said about facing Hopkins? He said that it didn't make sense to face Hopkins because if you beat Hopkins, the critics will say that Hopkins was an old man, and thus, the win doesn't mean much. If you loses to Hopkins, the critics say you are overrated and should face a young gun. So, what's the upside to Bute facing him?Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
2. If the headline of this thread is true and Showtime won't put up money for Froch/Bute, then the most obvious upside for Bute (in addition to the above) is money -- since Hopkins brings more than any other potential opponent (despite not being a huge PPV king).
Bute-PAcal will happen the day Bute will decide to switch division, which should happen in 3-4 fights from what we hear around here. They want him to fight at least 2 guys who did the super six and then switch to 175 for a bout with Pascal. I guess that if Showtime wants an american fighter, it'll be Dirrell and then Froch-Kessler-Froch (for the revenge) and then either Ward or 175. At least, a similar scenario if things unfold the way they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Unfortunately, no it wouldn't. It would be huge in maybe two cities in Quebec. That's about it. Nobody else would know or care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
To say Froch is 2-2 in his last four compared with Bute's 4-0, which gives the unbeaten fighter the advantage, is RIDICULOUS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch was part of a tournament to find out the divisions best fighter. So of course he was gonna fight top fighters. Arthur Abraham did the same thing. Should he be calling shots to? Come on now. Froch is the challenger coming off a bad loss. He's 2-2 in his last 4 fights and by alrights should be 2-3 in his last 5. He's in no position to try and make demands.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNo I'm saying I don't even regard Bute as champion. His silly IBF belt means NOTHING when it comes to comparing him with the worlds best supermiddles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is you support the ridiculous idea of challengers demanding a rematch clause, right? Or is it only when it benefits a UK fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So if Bute-Froch were to look like Ward-Froch there would be a rematch? Everybody know the fight was lopsided but the moronic scores say otherwise. A rematch would be meaningless.
It's real simple to understand -
Fighter A spends the last two years challenging all the best fighters in the world. Even willing to constantly give-up home-advantage. In the process he loses his own title. He's fighting the very best, so obviously has more chance of losing.
Fighter B wins an alphabet title. Spends four years at home defending it against "bums/leftovers."
Now how the fuck can any serious fan regard fighter B as the "champ."
Bute should be BEHIND Froch in the rankings. He shouldn't have any right to dictate terms to a fighter with a far superior resume.
To repeat - If it's lopsided or a KO the rematch is scrapped. They're asking for a rematch if it's CLOSE. They (Team FRoch) admitted the scorecards were wrong in the Ward fight. That's why no-one cares for a rematch.
However, what if it's like Bute-Andrade 1? What if Froch knocks him out but they still award Bute the victory? Does Froch, the fighter with the far superior record, the former two time alpahbet holder, the super-six finalist, NOT deserve a rematch? And why the fuck should he go back to Canada for it.
Come on now, lets keep it real (IBF means superiority?.. deary, deary me :rolleyes:)
And enough with the Froch goes every where to fight like enjoys being a road warrior. That's bullshit. The man bitched, complained and threatened to pull out the tournament at least 3 times cuz he couldn't fight at home. It took legal action and a compromise to even get him to fight Abraham. Real fucking warrior
How has Bute fared against the worlds best? Ward? Not fought him. Kessler? Not fought him. Dirrell? Not fought him. How about Jermain Taylor? Not fought him. Abraham? Not fought him. How about his fellow Canadian Jean Pascal? Nope, not fought him.
Who the fuck has Bute been fighting then? Well he fought "journeyman" Jesse Brinkly. Brian Magee, who Froch knocked unconcious a thousand years ago. Jean Paul Mendy, who was coming off a brutal 1st round KO loss to Sakio Bika. And old road warrior Glenn Johnson, who was guess what? That's right, coming off a loss to Froch.
Regardless of the super six stopping Bute from facing the best, the FACT is he hasn't fought the best. We don't know what his current record would be. For all we know he loses to Ward, Kessler, Dirrell, Froch etc. The top guys could have already ruined him. We just don't know.
Finally.. whether or not Froch bitched and moaned about fighting everyone in their backyard he still turned up and fought them. Respect. And that's another Fact. Fact.
Fucking well put!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterTo say Froch is 2-2 in his last four compared with Bute's 4-0, which gives the unbeaten fighter the advantage, is RIDICULOUS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch was part of a tournament to find out the divisions best fighter. So of course he was gonna fight top fighters. Arthur Abraham did the same thing. Should he be calling shots to? Come on now. Froch is the challenger coming off a bad loss. He's 2-2 in his last 4 fights and by alrights should be 2-3 in his last 5. He's in no position to try and make demands.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNo I'm saying I don't even regard Bute as champion. His silly IBF belt means NOTHING when it comes to comparing him with the worlds best supermiddles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseSo what your saying is you support the ridiculous idea of challengers demanding a rematch clause, right? Or is it only when it benefits a UK fighter?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHow the fuck can anyone think Froch is making a "bitch move" for asking for a rematch option? That is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseFroch has no title. Why the fuck does he need a rematch clause? I understand Bute needing one. He is the champion. For the fight to not happen cuz of Froch needing a rematch clause is a straight bitch move on Froch's part. The challenger needs a rematch clause. Come the fuck on with that bullshit. That's gotta be one of the most moronic demands by a challenger ever. So if Bute were to stop Froch early or embarrasses him over 12 he should still be obligated to fight him again? Fuck all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Froch's last four fights have been against the current supermiddleweight champion, no.2, no. 8 and no.9. He was the AWAY fighter in all four bouts.
Not only is Bute's opposition WAY below Froch's he's never been the AWAY fighter in his life.
What serious boxing fan cares about Bute's shitty alphabet title? Froch has TWICE held the WBC title in the time Bute has held the IBF. Froch could have simply done what Bute did - stay at home defending against c-level opposition (and Froch leftovers). To cite Bute's "title" as some sort of superiority over Froch is ridiculous.
Bute should be BEGGING to fight Froch to prove he can mix it at the top.
(p.s - they stated the rematch would be scrapped if there's a KO or lopsided decision ;))
So if Bute-Froch were to look like Ward-Froch there would be a rematch? Everybody know the fight was lopsided but the moronic scores say otherwise. A rematch would be meaningless.
It's real simple to understand -
Fighter A spends the last two years challenging all the best fighters in the world. Even willing to constantly give-up home-advantage. In the process he loses his own title. He's fighting the very best, so obviously has more chance of losing.
Fighter B wins an alphabet title. Spends four years at home defending it against "bums/leftovers."
Now how the fuck can any serious fan regard fighter B as the "champ."
Bute should be BEHIND Froch in the rankings. He shouldn't have any right to dictate terms to a fighter with a far superior resume.
To repeat - If it's lopsided or a KO the rematch is scrapped. They're asking for a rematch if it's CLOSE. They (Team FRoch) admitted the scorecards were wrong in the Ward fight. That's why no-one cares for a rematch.
However, what if it's like Bute-Andrade 1? What if Froch knocks him out but they still award Bute the victory? Does Froch, the fighter with the far superior record, the former two time alpahbet holder, the super-six finalist, NOT deserve a rematch? And why the fuck should he go back to Canada for it.
Come on now, lets keep it real (IBF means superiority?.. deary, deary me :rolleyes:)
And enough with the Froch goes every where to fight like enjoys being a road warrior. That's bullshit. The man bitched, complained and threatened to pull out the tournament at least 3 times cuz he couldn't fight at home. It took legal action and a compromise to even get him to fight Abraham. Real fucking warrior
How has Bute fared against the worlds best? Ward? Not fought him. Kessler? Not fought him. Dirrell? Not fought him. How about Jermain Taylor? Not fought him. Abraham? Not fought him. How about his fellow Canadian Jean Pascal? Nope, not fought him.
Who the fuck has Bute been fighting then? Well he fought "journeyman" Jesse Brinkly. Brian Magee, who Froch knocked unconcious a thousand years ago. Jean Paul Mendy, who was coming off a brutal 1st round KO loss to Sakio Bika. And old road warrior Glenn Johnson, who was guess what? That's right, coming off a loss to Froch.
Regardless of the super six stopping Bute from facing the best, the FACT is he hasn't fought the best. We don't know what his current record would be. For all we know he loses to Ward, Kessler, Dirrell, Froch etc. The top guys could have already ruined him. We just don't know.
Finally.. whether or not Froch bitched and moaned about fighting everyone in their backyard he still turned up and fought them. Respect. And that's another Fact. Fact.
That makes you a hall of famer on this forum
Froch will give bute a much better fight than dirrell.......froch also desrves a shot at bute more than dirrell does after been the runner up in the s6,Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita