Why is HBO so bias against Sergio Martinez ?

It was very frustrating to listen to HBO try to pull the wool over the viewers eyes yet again tonight in Martinez's bout with Macklin.

They did the same thing in his fight with Barker, where I thought Barker won 1 round and was dominated.

This time I had Macklin winning 2 rounds, and a 9-9 round in the knockdown where he put his leg under Martinez's leg and tripped him.

Nothing against Barker or Macklin, both tough and game, but HBO's nonstop barrage of criticisim against Martinez made it so satisfying when he stopped both men in the 11th. :cool:

I don't know what it is, if its Martinez's style, him upsetting Williams and Pavlik or what, but HBO desperately want him to lose. Its sad.

they don't want him to lose... they want you to think the fight is better and more competitive than it was.

The guy hardly throws a punch for the first half of the fight. Lets hope he doesnt fight Floyd. That will be one of the most boring matches out there.

Do what I do with Lampley and company cards...hit mute. I mean really, HBO is biased for a house fighter, is that new?

In fairness he gets the convincing late tko and doesn't blame his hurt hands. Thats has to be a plus.

I didn't watch HBO but kept hearing about their card. The fight was only close because of the KD and Martinez clearly dominated down the stretch. It wasn't that close in the end. The British crew had it about right IMO.

They shit all over him tonight and the Barker fight. After the fight you see they conveniently do a 180 and start kissing his ass nonstop. Immediately after any fight Steward almost on cue will say how (insert winning fighters name) fought a "tremendous fight" & "he couldn't have fought better a fight" blah blah blah :rolleyes:

Did anybody else catch Lampley not mentioning Bute when he was naming the top super middleweights? You could tell after he said Ward he was thinking Bute but proceeded to rattle off some other names...even Abraham FFS. It was almost like HBO told him not to mention the guy. Not that it matters...just thought that was curious.

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Originally Posted by TigerFan

They shit all over him tonight and the Barker fight. After the fight you see they conveniently do a 180 and start kissing his ass nonstop. Immediately after any fight Steward almost on cue will say how (insert winning fighters name) fought a "tremendous fight" & "he couldn't have fought better a fight" blah blah blah :rolleyes:

Did anybody else catch Lampley not mentioning Bute when he was naming the top super middleweights? You could tell after he said Ward he was thinking Bute but proceeded to rattle off some other names...even Abraham FFS. It was almost like HBO told him not to mention the guy. Not that it matters...just thought that was curious.

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Exactly what I saw. Martinez was cool and laid back about it though, never thought he was losing the fight and said he had 12 rounds to chop him down like a tree.

Also FUCK Julie Ledderman she had Macklin ahead by 3 rounds going into the 11th ! WTF was she watching !? :o:o:o

The hbo crew has become a joke somewhat, in the undercard steward was like rodriguez is completely in control blah blah blah, this was twenty seconds into the fight, wtf??? Also they tried justifyin the 119-111 score in the first martinez williams fight, like it wasn't complete bull, and yeah I noticed lampley not mentionin bute, what the fuck. I hate how hbo operates...

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Originally Posted by TigerFan

They shit all over him tonight and the Barker fight. After the fight you see they conveniently do a 180 and start kissing his ass nonstop. Immediately after any fight Steward almost on cue will say how (insert winning fighters name) fought a "tremendous fight" & "he couldn't have fought better a fight" blah blah blah :rolleyes:

Did anybody else catch Lampley not mentioning Bute when he was naming the top super middleweights? You could tell after he said Ward he was thinking Bute but proceeded to rattle off some other names...even Abraham FFS. It was almost like HBO told him not to mention the guy. Not that it matters...just thought that was curious.

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Steward has been annoying the fuck out of me lately, I ended up muting the sound in the 7th round of the main event, until after the fight was over. I almost muted the sound during Rodriquez -George, George had lost most of the 1st 6 rounds, but Steward: "George is fighting a beautiful/perfect fight". :confused:

I'm like no shit Manny? He's losing the fucking fight you blithering idiot.

And yes, I agree Hulk, HBO can't seem to wait until Sergio "gets old".

*Biased.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by TigerFan

They shit all over him tonight and the Barker fight. After the fight you see they conveniently do a 180 and start kissing his ass nonstop. Immediately after any fight Steward almost on cue will say how (insert winning fighters name) fought a "tremendous fight" & "he couldn't have fought better a fight" blah blah blah :rolleyes:

Did anybody else catch Lampley not mentioning Bute when he was naming the top super middleweights? You could tell after he said Ward he was thinking Bute but proceeded to rattle off some other names...even Abraham FFS. It was almost like HBO told him not to mention the guy. Not that it matters...just thought that was curious.

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Exactly what I saw. Martinez was cool and laid back about it though, never thought he was losing the fight and said he had 12 rounds to chop him down like a tree.

Also FUCK Julie Ledderman she had Macklin ahead by 3 rounds going into the 11th ! WTF was she watching !? :o:o:o

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That had me absolutley baffled. What on earth was she watching. :confused:

Because he isn't american? maybe?

they love chavez jr and he isn't american.

they will be very upset if chavez jr actually has enough balls to not dump his trinket in the trash. WBC supposedly is going to force negotiations and if nothing agreed to, a purse bid for Chavez Jr. vs Martinez.

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Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Because he isn't american? maybe?

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Pacquiao nor Donaire are American but that doesn't stop most of the HBO crew from deep throating them

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I didn't watch HBO but kept hearing about their card. The fight was only close because of the KD and Martinez clearly dominated down the stretch. It wasn't that close in the end. The British crew had it about right IMO.

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I can agree with this, Martinez landed the cleaner more effective punches throughout the fight. Game effort by Macklin, but Sergio showed who the boss was in the final 4 rounds.

Why are you guys running so vigourously to Martinez's defense? He didn't look great against a guy who isn't that good. Macklin is okay, but he hit Martinez, and caused him far more problems than he should have. Sure Martinez was winning, but he was suppose to be winning. His promoter has the audacity to compare him to a prime Roy JOnes Jr, well if you are going to that he should be completely overwhelming this guy from the first round, which he didn't do. I just don't see him as anything but a puncher's chance threat against any of the other top guys around him like Mayweather, Pacquiao, Ward.

HBO was so biased it was a joke. Do you think it could get any worse then that? It sure will... They will dog on Floyd like you wouldn't believe.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Why are you guys running so vigourously to Martinez's defense? He didn't look great against a guy who isn't that good. Macklin is okay, but he hit Martinez, and caused him far more problems than he should have. Sure Martinez was winning, but he was suppose to be winning. His promoter has the audacity to compare him to a prime Roy JOnes Jr, well if you are going to that he should be completely overwhelming this guy from the first round, which he didn't do. I just don't see him as anything but a puncher's chance threat against any of the other top guys around him like Mayweather, Pacquiao, Ward.

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agreed!

They were coaching it from the jump....

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I didn't watch HBO but kept hearing about their card. The fight was only close because of the KD and Martinez clearly dominated down the stretch. It wasn't that close in the end. The British crew had it about right IMO.

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I can agree with this, Martinez landed the cleaner more effective punches throughout the fight. Game effort by Macklin, but Sergio showed who the boss was in the final 4 rounds.

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Your spot on in my opinion.

With regard to HBO, if you are at the top, and not named Pacquiao or Chavez Jr., they give you a hard time. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. Larry Merchant asked the same type of questions to Mayweather, but he doesn't do it with Chavez Jr. or Pacquiao.

My problem with Sergio Martinez is that he gives himself too small a margin of error. It's a pattern in his fights that he ends them late: Pavlik (UD), Macklin (Round 11), Barker (Round 12), Dzinziruk (round 8). The reason it may take him a while to open up is because at 160, he is forced to fight a safer fight than he would at 154. Indeed, he was able to get Dzinziruk out earlier than the rest because Dzinziruk is a natural junior middleweight too. I understand that he is a counter puncher and it takes him a little while to figure his opponents' patterns out. However, he's going to run into someone that turns it on at the end of fights like he does.

Even at 37, he is a junior middleweight at heart. This is the third fight in row that he weighed in at 157, and allegedly this is while eating a healthy amount during the week of the fight.

The criticism on Sergio Martinez is somewhat unfounded for the following reasons. First, he doesn't just get the W, he knocks out his opponents; real knockouts, not like when Floyd Mayweather knocked out Victor Ortiz. What more should be expected of him? Vitali Klischko, age 40, usually only knocks out his opponents at the end of fights too, if he does at all. Bernard Hopkins, age 47, never knocks out his opponents. Second, his fights are fun to watch with the exception of the Barker fight. Saturday's fight had ebbs and flows with the challenger looking great at times. Sergio made adjustments and eventually won. Same with the Pavlik fight, where he was the underdog, the Dzinziruk fight, and the Williams' fights. Third, he's exemplary outside of the ring. He's taken a strong stance against domestic violence against women. He maintains a high level of fitness all year round. It's odd that HBO has taken to him more.

Where does he go from here?

The junior middleweights? Sergio Martinez would dominate Miguel Cotto, James Kirkland, or Saul Alvarez. Not that they would fight him, of course. Miguel Cotto already ducked him. Saul Alvarez is fighting Shane Mosley next and is too young for Sergio to be fair. James Kirkland would be fun, but Golden Boy won't put him in with Sergio. However, all those fights would be fun to watch. He would struggle against Mayweather, and it wouldn't be fun to watch. It would be fun to watch, of course for boxing afficianados, but the feinting and counter punching wouldn't make it action-packed.

The middleweights? Chavez Jr. would be a good fight. Chavez Jr. would have a huge size advantage and Chavez Jr. doesn't lose form at the end of fights. Geale would be a good fight too. Same goes for Andy Lee or Felix Sturm, but Sturm has stated publicly he doesn't want to fight Sergio Martinez. I actually like Chavez Jr and Sturm (if he it could happen) as his next opponents. Lee's not a bad opponent either. I'm not mentioning Pirog because he's completely MIA, rarely fights. Golovkin hasn't even fought on HBO yet if I'm not mistaken, so it's not realistic.

Where should he be ranked P4P?

In my estimation, Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao are unquestionably above Sergio Martinez p4p. After them, there's a noticable drop off, and it's tough to figure out the next four spots. Donaire struggled somewhat against Vasquez Jr., an opponent comparable to Macklin in quality, but Donaire couldn't do what Sergio did, and finish Vasquez Jr. off. My intrigue with Donaire somewhat leveled off after that last opponent. That Donaire is now taking a step backward in competition, after all the big talk of facing the best at 122 and even 126, after that last performance only solidified that view. Ward beat Froch and Kessler. He hasn't moved up in weight class though and he hasn't beat the next best in his division (Bute), not the be all and end all, but it affects his placement. Juan Manuel Marquez is a clear future hall of famer. Yet, he struggled against Juan Diaz and Michael Kastidis, and lost to Mayweather and Pacquiao. Wladmir has done everything asked of him too as has Vitali, but the quality of their opposition hasn't been anything to write home about.

Because he's p4p top 3 or 4 and has failed to look anywhere near that class in about 17/18 of the 22 rounds he's shared with Macklin and Barker.....who are both good, but probably aren't really ever going to win an alphabet title.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

With regard to HBO, if you are at the top, and not named Pacquiao or Chavez Jr., they give you a hard time. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. Larry Merchant asked the same type of questions to Mayweather, but he doesn't do it with Chavez Jr. or Pacquiao.

My problem with Sergio Martinez is that he gives himself too small a margin of error. It's a pattern in his fights that he ends them late: Pavlik (UD), Macklin (Round 11), Barker (Round 12), Dzinziruk (round 8). The reason it may take him a while to open up is because at 160, he is forced to fight a safer fight than he would at 154. Indeed, he was able to get Dzinziruk out earlier than the rest because Dzinziruk is a natural junior middleweight too. I understand that he is a counter puncher and it takes him a little while to figure his opponents' patterns out. However, he's going to run into someone that turns it on at the end of fights like he does.

Even at 37, he is a junior middleweight at heart. This is the third fight in row that he weighed in at 157, and allegedly this is while eating a healthy amount during the week of the fight.

The criticism on Sergio Martinez is somewhat unfounded for the following reasons. First, he doesn't just get the W, he knocks out his opponents; real knockouts, not like when Floyd Mayweather knocked out Victor Ortiz. What more should be expected of him? Vitali Klischko, age 40, usually only knocks out his opponents at the end of fights too, if he does at all. Bernard Hopkins, age 47, never knocks out his opponents. Second, his fights are fun to watch with the exception of the Barker fight. Saturday's fight had ebbs and flows with the challenger looking great at times. Sergio made adjustments and eventually won. Same with the Pavlik fight, where he was the underdog, the Dzinziruk fight, and the Williams' fights. Third, he's exemplary outside of the ring. He's taken a strong stance against domestic violence against women. He maintains a high level of fitness all year round. It's odd that HBO has taken to him more.

Where does he go from here?

The junior middleweights? Sergio Martinez would dominate Miguel Cotto, James Kirkland, or Saul Alvarez. Not that they would fight him, of course. Miguel Cotto already ducked him. Saul Alvarez is fighting Shane Mosley next and is too young for Sergio to be fair. James Kirkland would be fun, but Golden Boy won't put him in with Sergio. However, all those fights would be fun to watch. He would struggle against Mayweather, and it wouldn't be fun to watch. It would be fun to watch, of course for boxing afficianados, but the feinting and counter punching wouldn't make it action-packed.

The middleweights? Chavez Jr. would be a good fight. Chavez Jr. would have a huge size advantage and Chavez Jr. doesn't lose form at the end of fights. Geale would be a good fight too. Same goes for Andy Lee or Felix Sturm, but Sturm has stated publicly he doesn't want to fight Sergio Martinez. I actually like Chavez Jr and Sturm (if he it could happen) as his next opponents. Lee's not a bad opponent either. I'm not mentioning Pirog because he's completely MIA, rarely fights. Golovkin hasn't even fought on HBO yet if I'm not mistaken, so it's not realistic.

Where should he be ranked P4P?

In my estimation, Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao are unquestionably above Sergio Martinez p4p. After them, there's a noticable drop off, and it's tough to figure out the next four spots. Donaire struggled somewhat against Vasquez Jr., an opponent comparable to Macklin in quality, but Donaire couldn't do what Sergio did, and finish Vasquez Jr. off. My intrigue with Donaire somewhat leveled off after that last opponent. That Donaire is now taking a step backward in competition, after all the big talk of facing the best at 122 and even 126, after that last performance only solidified that view. Ward beat Froch and Kessler. He hasn't moved up in weight class though and he hasn't beat the next best in his division (Bute), not the be all and end all, but it affects his placement. Juan Manuel Marquez is a clear future hall of famer. Yet, he struggled against Juan Diaz and Michael Kastidis, and lost to Mayweather and Pacquiao. Wladmir has done everything asked of him too as has Vitali, but the quality of their opposition hasn't been anything to write home about.

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Agree with that. Great post.

Both Barker and Macklin unfortunately stack up bad stylistically for Martinez if you're looking for domination or a flashy show. They're both guys that are naturally heavier and try to stay busy to neutralize Sergios speed. Macklin perhaps having an edge with Mcgirt in his corner if you want to push the roy jones similarities. The plan for both guys unfortunately was to remain tight defensively and get Martinez to lead and blitz him when he comes in. Its hard to pick your shots against fighters that do that with some extra weight on you and both of them being rather durable. Sergio is at his best against fighters that lead, present counterpunching opportunities and are not balls to the wall blind flurry type of brawlers. In a division where the pickings may be slim, you have to give it to a guy that picked someone who got jobbed out of title in a different country and gave them a shot. He's also not doing what so many other champions do, pick they guys that are too old (a mosely), too young/green (ortiz), blown up (marquez) or weight drained (cotto) or stylistically flawed (hatton/Margarito) to make themselves pretty. He gives away the weight advantage, many times the height/reach advantage, the constant hometown advantage.. and still finds a way to win. He usually rewards the fans for a few rounds of stinkery with a ko.. who else can you say that about? He doesn't whine or cry all the way to the limo (where he can count his cut of the gate) about how the commentators talk about him.. . He goes in .. does his job, says thank you... and gets involved in causes outside the ring.. despite idiots like merchant that wants everyone to abandon defense and every other skill they practice for the last 2-3 months in favor of swinging big and giving him a rocky moment to babble his 90 proof garbage about while at the mic. Considering he's been jobbed enough times, that anyone else would have thrown a tantrum and quit...I would have to say he deserves more credit for what he's accomplished.

I watched the fight Sunday morning and to me Sergio didn't look that great until macklin got tired. He was losing the fight in my eyes up to the 7th or 8th round were he turned all around. But I felt he didn't look as great as he should have. I feel if he would throw right hooks he couldve been knocking the guy out. But it seems like he only depends on his left straight and stepping back and throwing a soft jab to counter your missed jab. He got the win but I feel if macklin would've had better stamina and stuck to the plan and keeping his right hand centered like he was threw out the fight it would've gone to the cards and split decision win for Martinez.

Here is a fact Martinez would not be fit to carry Haglers spit bucket.;D

That wasn't the first time Martinez looked ordinary against nobody. I can't blame hbo.

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

That wasn't the first time Martinez looked ordinary against nobody. I can't blame hbo.

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yet they acted like Pacquiao was blowing his opponent away against Clottey, where Manny looked far from extraordinary

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

That wasn't the first time Martinez looked ordinary against nobody. I can't blame hbo.

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yet they acted like Pacquiao was blowing his opponent away against Clottey, where Manny looked far from extraordinary

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It was a shut out, Martinez hasn't been shutting out anyone.

Not that I think it even matters, a convincing win is a convincing win.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

That wasn't the first time Martinez looked ordinary against nobody. I can't blame hbo.

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yet they acted like Pacquiao was blowing his opponent away against Clottey, where Manny looked far from extraordinary

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It was a shut out, Martinez hasn't been shutting out anyone.

Not that I think it even matters, a convincing win is a convincing win.

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yea he's been stopping everyone, once he figure his guy out he stops him, so I fail to see why he gets so much criticism, we all knew Macklin was a lot better than a 10-1 underdog, it's more of a case that Macklin performed well rather than Martinez looked flat

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

That wasn't the first time Martinez looked ordinary against nobody. I can't blame hbo.

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yet they acted like Pacquiao was blowing his opponent away against Clottey, where Manny looked far from extraordinary

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It was a shut out, Martinez hasn't been shutting out anyone.

Not that I think it even matters, a convincing win is a convincing win.

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yea he's been stopping everyone, once he figure his guy out he stops him, so I fail to see why he gets so much criticism, we all knew Macklin was a lot better than a 10-1 underdog, it's more of a case that Macklin performed well rather than Martinez looked flat

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I also think it's that Macklin boxed more than brawled, which suprised Sergio.

Macklin surprised me too. I expected him to brawl more which would have made it easy for Martinez. Instead he stuck to a good gameplan until Martinez superior class took over.

Martinez has got shit in his last two fights but the truth is - Macklin and Barker have been underestimated. They're both smart fighters that weren't turning-up to roll over, they tried to win.

Martinez P4P position is fully deserved IMO. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Macklin surprised me too. I expected him to brawl more which would have made it easy for Martinez. Instead he stuck to a good gameplan until Martinez superior class took over.

Martinez has got shit in his last two fights but the truth is - Macklin and Barker have been underestimated. They're both smart fighters that weren't turning-up to roll over, they tried to win.

Martinez P4P position is fully deserved IMO. Fact.

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agreed, even Martinez said that Macklin's more tactical approach took him by surprise so he laid back a bit and took his time with him

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Macklin surprised me too. I expected him to brawl more which would have made it easy for Martinez. Instead he stuck to a good gameplan until Martinez superior class took over.

Martinez has got shit in his last two fights but the truth is - Macklin and Barker have been underestimated. They're both smart fighters that weren't turning-up to roll over, they tried to win.

Martinez P4P position is fully deserved IMO. Fact.

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Actually I put Martinez ahead of Mayweather in P4P, because Mayweather hasn't fought enough the last 5 years to deserve to be ranked.

He is in a weak weight division and the fighters he just fought are probably below world class. He is just not as dominate as the other fighters seem to be against weaker fighters it seems.

He knocks em out, and not with a lucky shot but takes a while to figure em out n then tgheyre outa there, good enough for me....can't get much more dominant then that, sure he looses rounds here n there but who cares he finishes in style...

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Originally Posted by armin

He knocks em out, and not with a lucky shot but takes a while to figure em out n then they're outa there, good enough for me....can't get much more dominant then that, sure he looses rounds here n there but who cares he finishes in style...

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The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

Macklin said he was going to brawl and take the fight to Sergio, but instead in the first 6 rounds he boxed, kept his hands up and fought more defensively. From the 7th round on it looked like Macklin started to come forward and brawl more, but that's when Martinez started finding the range and pounding Matt with those powerful straight left hands. Like all great champions Sergio became more agressive and turned it up a notch when he needed to. You only needed to look at Macklin's face and then Sergio's at the finish of the fight to see who was landing the more effective punches.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by armin

He knocks em out, and not with a lucky shot but takes a while to figure em out n then they're outa there, good enough for me....can't get much more dominant then that, sure he looses rounds here n there but who cares he finishes in style...

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The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

Macklin said he was going to brawl and take the fight to Sergio, but instead in the first 6 rounds he boxed, kept his hands up and fought more defensively. From the 7th round on it looked like Macklin started to come forward and brawl more, but that's when Martinez started finding the range and pounding Matt with those powerful straight left hands. Like all great champions Sergio became more agressive and turned it up a notch when he needed to. You only needed to look at Macklin's face and then Sergio's at the finish of the fight to see who was landing the more effective punches.

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Macklin always tires out at the end of the fight. Martinez done what he needed to do which was to play around for the first seven rounds until Macklin got tired and then finish the job. I think Martinez could have finished the fight earlier. He done a bit of a Klitchko. He is incredibly fit though and has great power and speed. I think a Martinez Pac fight would be good. I still see Mayweather beating both of them. Im not a Fan of Mayweather but he is p4p number one because he is the best. Irritating some one so up his own ass is the best but thats just the way it is.

Mayweather deserves a hard time with some of his choices. Baldomir? Really? Judah off of a loss to Baldomir? Really? Marquez at a CW and then not making weight? Really? Not fighting Margarito, Cotto, Williams or Mosley when they still had something? Really?

Mayweather deserves a lot of his flak.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

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floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.