Why is HBO so bias against Sergio Martinez ?

[Mars_ax]

He knocks em out, and not with a lucky shot but takes a while to figure em out n then they're outa there, good enough for me....can't get much more dominant then that, sure he looses rounds here n there but who cares he finishes in style...

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

Macklin said he was going to brawl and take the fight to Sergio, but instead in the first 6 rounds he boxed, kept his hands up and fought more defensively. From the 7th round on it looked like Macklin started to come forward and brawl more, but that's when Martinez started finding the range and pounding Matt with those powerful straight left hands. Like all great champions Sergio became more agressive and turned it up a notch when he needed to. You only needed to look at Macklin's face and then Sergio's at the finish of the fight to see who was landing the more effective punches.

[Leighton]

He knocks em out, and not with a lucky shot but takes a while to figure em out n then they're outa there, good enough for me....can't get much more dominant then that, sure he looses rounds here n there but who cares he finishes in style...

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

Macklin said he was going to brawl and take the fight to Sergio, but instead in the first 6 rounds he boxed, kept his hands up and fought more defensively. From the 7th round on it looked like Macklin started to come forward and brawl more, but that's when Martinez started finding the range and pounding Matt with those powerful straight left hands. Like all great champions Sergio became more agressive and turned it up a notch when he needed to. You only needed to look at Macklin's face and then Sergio's at the finish of the fight to see who was landing the more effective punches.

Macklin always tires out at the end of the fight. Martinez done what he needed to do which was to play around for the first seven rounds until Macklin got tired and then finish the job. I think Martinez could have finished the fight earlier. He done a bit of a Klitchko. He is incredibly fit though and has great power and speed. I think a Martinez Pac fight would be good. I still see Mayweather beating both of them. Im not a Fan of Mayweather but he is p4p number one because he is the best. Irritating some one so up his own ass is the best but thats just the way it is.

[Gandalf]

Mayweather deserves a hard time with some of his choices. Baldomir? Really? Judah off of a loss to Baldomir? Really? Marquez at a CW and then not making weight? Really? Not fighting Margarito, Cotto, Williams or Mosley when they still had something? Really?

Mayweather deserves a lot of his flak.

[ruthless rocco]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

[ElTerribleMorales]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

Donaire didn't look all that great last two times out either, difference is Martinez got the KO twice while Donaire didn't come close

[ruthless rocco]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

Donaire didn't look all that great last two times out either, difference is Martinez got the KO twice while Donaire didn't come close

Difference is quality of opposition and moves up in weight class:

Narvaez, undefeated in 37 fights at the time, was the #1 ranked super flyweight and former title holder who was moving up in weight to challenge Donaire for his bantamweight title. Donaire blanked him on all 3 judges score cards 120-108.

In his fight against Vasquez Jr, Donaire himself was moving up to challenge the former super bantamweight champ. this was the second weight division Donaire had jumped in a year and a half. Vasquez was the naturally bigger fighter having had spent his entire career at super bantamweight or higher. Donaire fought the majority of that fight with a broken left hand, evidence of which was seen when the gloves were removed and blood was seen soaking through the wraps. Donaire landed a total of 42% of his punches and 60% power punches. while judged a split decision, most observers saw Donaire winning easily.

[ElTerribleMorales]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

Donaire didn't look all that great last two times out either, difference is Martinez got the KO twice while Donaire didn't come close

Difference is quality of opposition and moves up in weight class:

Narvaez, undefeated in 37 fights at the time, was the #1 ranked super flyweight and former title holder who was moving up in weight to challenge Donaire for his bantamweight title. Donaire blanked him on all 3 judges score cards 120-108.

In his fight against Vasquez Jr, Donaire himself was moving up to challenge the former super bantamweight champ. this was the second weight division Donaire had jumped in a year and a half. Vasquez was the naturally bigger fighter having had spent his entire career at super bantamweight or higher. Donaire fought the majority of that fight with a broken left hand, evidence of which was seen when the gloves were removed and blood was seen soaking through the wraps. Donaire landed a total of 42% of his punches and 60% power punches. while judged a split decision, most observers saw Donaire winning easily.

no, he won CLEARLY, I wouldn't say he won easily, when Martinez began to work he dominated his opponent fully, it's not like either KO was from a lucky shot, the guy set it up and effortlessly took both out taking little to no damage himself, Macklin was one of the top out there right now, lets not forget his rip off "loss" to Sturm who many consider #2 or #3 at 160, as for Donaire against Narvaez, who the hell had Narvaez beaten to be considered elite? the real answer is no one

[Rantcatrat]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

Donaire didn't look all that great last two times out either, difference is Martinez got the KO twice while Donaire didn't come close

Difference is quality of opposition and moves up in weight class:

Narvaez, undefeated in 37 fights at the time, was the #1 ranked super flyweight and former title holder who was moving up in weight to challenge Donaire for his bantamweight title. Donaire blanked him on all 3 judges score cards 120-108.

In his fight against Vasquez Jr, Donaire himself was moving up to challenge the former super bantamweight champ. this was the second weight division Donaire had jumped in a year and a half. Vasquez was the naturally bigger fighter having had spent his entire career at super bantamweight or higher. Donaire fought the majority of that fight with a broken left hand, evidence of which was seen when the gloves were removed and blood was seen soaking through the wraps. Donaire landed a total of 42% of his punches and 60% power punches. while judged a split decision, most observers saw Donaire winning easily.

no, he won CLEARLY, I wouldn't say he won easily, when Martinez began to work he dominated his opponent fully, it's not like either KO was from a lucky shot, the guy set it up and effortlessly took both out taking little to no damage himself, Macklin was one of the top out there right now, lets not forget his rip off "loss" to Sturm who many consider #2 or #3 at 160, as for Donaire against Narvaez, who the hell had Narvaez beaten to be considered elite? the real answer is no one

I agree with El Terrible here. Donaire won clearly, but it wasn't easy. Vasquez gave him more problems than anyone anticipated.

Ruthless rocco - Donaire is facing Mijares and Arce next. Really? This is at a time where he could face Rigondeaux or Nishioka. The Mijares and Arce fights put the Rigondeaux and Nishioka fights out for another year, if they are even available then. Consider that prior to the Vasquez and Narvaez fights, the sky was the limit for Donaire. As a result of those fights, his handlers are tempering the level of risk for his next fights.

Vasquez Jr. was very comparable to Macklin. Macklin was ranked number 3 in the middleweight division after essentially beating Sturm in Germany. Vasquez Jr. was ranked number 7 in the division. Granted, the junior featherweight division is a bit deeper than the middleweight division at least at the top, so it evens out. Barker was also ranked in the top ten of the division when Martinez faced him.

In all fairness, Narvaez, is comparable to Sergiy Dzinziruk, a champion at a weight below, moving up in weight to face the champion at the above weight. Martinez figured out Dzinziruk and stopped him in the eighth; Donaire won on the cards in a boring victory.

I can understand why you would have Marquez or Wlad highly ranked in your p4p. If you had Floyd, Manny, Marquez, Wlad, Donaire, Ward, then Sergio, it is what it is. I would disagree but p4p lists are subjective.

My problem with Marquez is that to an extent, it appears he is not facing top guys unless they are big money fights. He's earned that certainly. He is now facing Sergiy Fedchenko who is not ranked in the top ten in any rankings. At least with Sergio, it can be said that he is cleaning out the division while waiting for a big pay day. If he faced Lee next for example, that would mean three top ten guys in a row, and if Chavez Jr. came after Lee, four. I don't see how you fault a guy for that, which is why I don't see how anyone faults Wlad. He's doing what he can do. He didn't set the limits.

My main criticism of Sergio is that he'll face Cotto or Mayweather at 150 or 154, but, when asked about James Kirkland, Kirkland has to come up to 160. I don't understand that. Is that just because he has the leverage in that fight? Why will he only go to 154 for a big name if he truly is a junior middleweight? Is he making more money as a middleweight? Why also is he so excited about facing Chavez Jr. at 160 when he could go on a world tour and face the rest of the middleweight elite? On the other hand, I don't understand why he gets grief for wanting to face Mayweather when Mayweather would be favored in the fight. Taeth keeps bringing up Pacquiao, but Taeth forgets that Roach declined the fight with Martinez because he feels he's too big. So, there is no use speculating. Also, I don't understand the griping about Macklin as an opponent, when his fight against Sturm counts more than anything the other title holders have done, less Sturm.

[ruthless rocco]

moving up in weight while beating current and former world champs garners more respect from me than a guy who's clearing out a shit division and fighting former domestic champions.

[Mars_ax]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

Eh, you just come off as someone who doesn't like Martinez, most of the P4P rankings have Martinez @ #3., those are just the facts.

[shza]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

I agree with ratcatrant's responses in full. I'd just add that Marquez, much as I love watching him, gets hit way more than Martinez, and against worse opposition (Katsidis anyone?).

Floyd and Pac are really the only two I could see above Martinez. I'd put Donaire as 4 (for now -- while I think he'll pick it back up, his last outing was extremely unimpressive; and the MRI showed that he did not, in fact, have a broken hand). And Wlad at 5.

[Rantcatrat]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

I agree with ratcatrant's responses in full. I'd just add that Marquez, much as I love watching him, gets hit way more than Martinez, and against worse opposition (Katsidis anyone?).

Floyd and Pac are really the only two I could see above Martinez. I'd put Donaire as 4 (for now -- while I think he'll pick it back up, his last outing was extremely unimpressive; and the MRI showed that he did not, in fact, have a broken hand). And Wlad at 5.

How about Ward and Marquez?

[shza]

The real test is, name someone P4P besides Pacquiao, (I don't count Mayweather, he doesn't fight often enough) who deserves to be ranked higher than Martinez, there really isn't anyone.

floyd mayweather
manny pacquiao
juan manuel marquez
nonito donaire
wlad klitchko

martinez has looked less than gifted against his last two opponents who are B level fighters at best. the ease with which macklin and barker were able to connect with martinez' head and body doesn't inspire much confidence. if he were to be put in the ring p4p against any of the above fighters i see fairly clear losses for martinez on all counts.

I agree with ratcatrant's responses in full. I'd just add that Marquez, much as I love watching him, gets hit way more than Martinez, and against worse opposition (Katsidis anyone?).

Floyd and Pac are really the only two I could see above Martinez. I'd put Donaire as 4 (for now -- while I think he'll pick it back up, his last outing was extremely unimpressive; and the MRI showed that he did not, in fact, have a broken hand). And Wlad at 5.

How about Ward and Marquez?

I guess I'd put Ward at 6, though I'm not super committed on that because Kessler and Froch really aren't on the same level as the opponents the top 5 guys have faced (except Wlad, but that's where consistency and longevity come into play). I would love to see Ward move up and fight the Hopkins/Dawson winner (I expect Dawson). To me, that would do way more to solidify his P4P status than fighting Bute, who's even less proven than Kessler or Froch.

Marquez, I don't know. I think he will lose (again) soon, to someone not in the p4p ratings. He obviously has Pacquiao's number but he has not looked P4P-good against anyone else recently. And I really don't think it's fair to completely ignore the embarrassment against Floyd. We can discount it, sure, but the size advantage alone doesn't account for him losing every single second of the fight. I think he matches up poorly against technical boxers. Who's the last one he fought before Floyd -- Chris John? I'd pick Robert Guerrero to beat him tomorrow. I might put Hopkins and Vitali ahead of him on the P4P list. If Dawson looks impressive beating Hopkins, I'd put him up there too.

[ruthless rocco]

guess we'll see what happens if martinez ever fights a top fighter... cause from where i sit he's just not that good.

[Rantcatrat]

guess we'll see what happens if martinez ever fights a top fighter... cause from where i sit he's just not that good.

Just so we're clear, he beat Kelly Pavlik when he was the lineal middleweight champion, and he beat Paul Williams when he was top 5 p4p on most lists.

Who do you want to see him face?