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Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Wlad klitschko 57-3 (please note there fight record is displayed as it stands today not when wlad fought them!) Current linear champ and olympic gold medallist. Noteable wins include: Byrd x2, peter x2, thompson ( x2 touch woodlol) brewster, chagaev, ibragimov, haye, chambers, rahman, brock, austin, mcline, mercer.
Vitali klitschko 46-2. A 3X HW champ and an ATG comeback after a 3 year layoff from a potentially career ending injury. Noteable wins include: Sanders, peter, gomez, chisora, briggs, solis, arreola, adamek, hide, williams, johnson, donald, johnson and hoffman.
Alexander Povetkin 24-0. Povetkin won the WBA title after 2011. Brilliant amateur career capturing olympic gold, a world amateur championships gold and 2 european golds (he finsished his career at 125–7, with all losses avenged) Noteable pro wins include: Byrd, chambers, huck and chagaev.
Chris byrd 47-5. Byrd is the former WBO and IBF heavyweight champion. He was a three-time U.S. amateur champion and compiled 275 wins in the amateur ranks. During the first half of his career byrd secured easy wins over then norteworthy opponents phil jackson, bert cooper, jimmy thunder and the undefeated cuban eliecier castillo. He also beat holyfield for the vacant IBF strap, won the WBO belt after vitali klitschko retired due to a shoulder injury, outpointed david tua, fought to a draw with golota, beat young prospect davarryl williamson and beat jameel mcline.
Ruslan Chagaev 32-2-1. Former WBA champ and a gold medallist at the world amateur championships (beat the great felix savon twice). First man to defeat the ukranian prospect Volodymyr Vyrchys. Ruslan also outhustled ruiz and valuev.
Sultan ibragimov 22-1-1. The former WBO heavyweight champion. Fought his way up to a unification fight with wlad. Has an olympic silver, world amateur silver and european bronze. Noteable wins include briggs, javier mora (who beat up kirk johnson) lance whitaker (who stopped oleg maskaev, outpointed monte barrett and was coming into his fight with iggy with only one debateable loss!) ibragimov easily outpointed an ageing holyfield too.
Sam peter 39-5. The former WBC heavyweight champion. Beat the p4p great james toney twice (something rahmam, ruiz, jirov and holyfield couldn't do!) the second fight was Considered one of his most polished boxing performances, Peter beat Toney to the punch consistently throughout the twelve rounds. Peter hooked off the jab to put Toney down in round two. Peter also beat maskaev, mcline, taurus sykes, jeremy williams and cuban star yanqui diaz (Diaz fought the legendary felix savon twice and he reportedly scored two knockdowns!)
Eddie chambers 39-3. Chambers stopped 15–0 derric rossy and defeated dominic guinn, he also beat sam peter, giant ukranian prospect dimitrenko and calvin brock. He recently lost a debateable fight against adamek.
Tony thompson 38-2. Southpaw thompson has quietly made his way through prospects and contenders zuri lawrence, guinn, diaz, witherspoon, harriss, beck etc throughout his career. In 2004 Tony handed undefeated Cuban amateur star yanqui diaz his first loss, he also holds a dominating TKO win over luan krasniqi and easily defeated Timur Ibragimov in 07.
David haye 27-2. Haye is a 2 weight world champion. Made his name by beating up the older veterans of this era like ruiz, barrett etc He outpointed the giant valuev to win the WBA strap. As much as i dislike the chap he is clearly a talented fighter, very explosive, athletic etc Just let down by his mouth (but some ppl seem to like that shit!).
Honourable Mentions: Calvin brock, sergei liakovich, luan krasniqi, james toney, shannon brigs, jameel mcline, corrie sanders, danny williams, odlandier solis, andrew golota, john ruiz, david tua, lamon brewster, ray austin, oleg maskaev, juan carlos gomez, chris arreola, kirk johnson, evander holyfield, fres oquendo, monte barrett, thomasz adamek, davarryl wiliamson, timo hoffman, derrick chisora, robert helenius, alexander dimitrenko, herbie hide, orlin norris, jason estrada, the castillo brothers etc (Some exciting young fighters coming up through the ranks also!!)
What order would you put them in? Would you have anyone else in the top 10 instead of the others mentioned? Honourable mentions, who did i miss??
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Hmmmm, if Tua and Byrd are classed as his era, shouldn't Lennoz, Tyson and Evander at least get a mention? When Wlad first held the WBO, Lennox was the WBC and IBF (not to mention linear champ too) and Evander was WBA champ. I think that year 2000 Lennox would have all but killed any version of Wladimir. As for Tyson he'd just made Golota quit around about that time too and I think Tyson vs Wlad at that time would have been an interesting fight but one that Mike would end up KO winner in.
Now I know Wlad has improved a shit load since then and I'd actually pick Wlad to beat any version of Tyson NOW, I just think it's a horrible matchup for Tyson.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Hmmmm, if Tua and Byrd are classed as his era, shouldn't Lennoz, Tyson and Evander at least get a mention? When Wlad first held the WBO, Lennox was the WBC and IBF (not to mention linear champ too) and Evander was WBA champ. I think that year 2000 Lennox would have all but killed any version of Wladimir. As for Tyson he'd just made Golota quit around about that time too and I think Tyson vs Wlad at that time would have been an interesting fight but one that Mike would end up KO winner in.
Now I know Wlad has improved a shit load since then and I'd actually pick Wlad to beat any version of Tyson NOW, I just think it's a horrible matchup for Tyson.
I see wlads era and lewis' as two different ones, both contained a long running linear champ.
There will be cross over fighters from 2 different era's in any era. Baby wlad competed in lennies era.
Consider Lennoz, Tyson and Evander more than mentioned my friend, however, i really tend to associate them with the 90's, u do have a point though. I hope u can see what im getting at, i think it would demean lennox to give him an honourable mention if u get my drift! 2 different era's really...i also think it demeans wlad to judge him on his fledgling years in the late lewis era.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Hmmmm, if Tua and Byrd are classed as his era, shouldn't Lennoz, Tyson and Evander at least get a mention? When Wlad first held the WBO, Lennox was the WBC and IBF (not to mention linear champ too) and Evander was WBA champ. I think that year 2000 Lennox would have all but killed any version of Wladimir. As for Tyson he'd just made Golota quit around about that time too and I think Tyson vs Wlad at that time would have been an interesting fight but one that Mike would end up KO winner in.
Now I know Wlad has improved a shit load since then and I'd actually pick Wlad to beat any version of Tyson NOW, I just think it's a horrible matchup for Tyson.
I see wlads era and lewis' as two different ones, both contained a long running linear champ.
There will be cross over fighters from 2 different era's in any era. Baby wlad competed in lennies era.
Consider Lennoz, Tyson and Evander more than mentioned my friend, however, i really tend to associate them with the 90's, u do have a point though. I hope u can see what im getting at, i think it would demean lennox to give him an honourable mention if u get my drift! 2 different era's really...i also think it demeans wlad to judge him on his fledgling years in the late lewis era.
well but Tua was pretty irrelevant after his loss to Lewis, so don't see why he is even mentioned
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era,
is somewhat an oxymoron. For the most part they are stand in's and props not top ten.
The only competition it had/has in relationship to lameness is Marciano's. This era in general makes the era of Holmes look like a golden one.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Hmmmm, if Tua and Byrd are classed as his era, shouldn't Lennoz, Tyson and Evander at least get a mention? When Wlad first held the WBO, Lennox was the WBC and IBF (not to mention linear champ too) and Evander was WBA champ. I think that year 2000 Lennox would have all but killed any version of Wladimir. As for Tyson he'd just made Golota quit around about that time too and I think Tyson vs Wlad at that time would have been an interesting fight but one that Mike would end up KO winner in.
Now I know Wlad has improved a shit load since then and I'd actually pick Wlad to beat any version of Tyson NOW, I just think it's a horrible matchup for Tyson.
Very interesting that you've come to my side of thinking about Tyson vs Wlad. I just figure if Buster Douglas a very hit & miss inconsistent fighter could really hand Tyson a boxing lesson and given Tyson's struggles with Tony Tucker (who had a broken hand) & Lennox Lewis who just manhandled Mike, you've got to figure win or lose it's at the very least "not an easy fight for Tyson". The way Wlad fights on the outside ties up on the inside, uses height, reach, weight, and as athletic as he is, it's hard to see Tyson getting to him with more than one punch at a time which he would need to end the fight.
I would rate Lennox Lewis as the top heavyweight in Wlad's era (bar Wlad himself of course), it's a shame they never fought, but who knows how different things could have panned out. Who knows, if Lewis would have lost perhaps he would be like Evander and still be fighting on, trying to redeem himself.
I think Lamon Brewster should be rated higher. He was a very solid durable fighter and had solid power.
Looking at the fighters you've listed it really makes me think about the fights Wlad could have had: Golota, Ruiz, Liakhovich, Evander Holyfield, Oleg Maskaev, Luan Krasniqi, Nicolay Valuev. There could have been some good fights in that group for Wlad.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Hmmmm, if Tua and Byrd are classed as his era, shouldn't Lennoz, Tyson and Evander at least get a mention? When Wlad first held the WBO, Lennox was the WBC and IBF (not to mention linear champ too) and Evander was WBA champ. I think that year 2000 Lennox would have all but killed any version of Wladimir. As for Tyson he'd just made Golota quit around about that time too and I think Tyson vs Wlad at that time would have been an interesting fight but one that Mike would end up KO winner in.
Now I know Wlad has improved a shit load since then and I'd actually pick Wlad to beat any version of Tyson NOW, I just think it's a horrible matchup for Tyson.
Very interesting that you've come to my side of thinking about Tyson vs Wlad. I just figure if Buster Douglas a very hit & miss inconsistent fighter could really hand Tyson a boxing lesson and given Tyson's struggles with Tony Tucker (who had a broken hand) & Lennox Lewis who just manhandled Mike, you've got to figure win or lose it's at the very least "not an easy fight for Tyson". The way Wlad fights on the outside ties up on the inside, uses height, reach, weight, and as athletic as he is, it's hard to see Tyson getting to him with more than one punch at a time which he would need to end the fight.
I would rate Lennox Lewis as the top heavyweight in Wlad's era (bar Wlad himself of course), it's a shame they never fought, but who knows how different things could have panned out. Who knows, if Lewis would have lost perhaps he would be like Evander and still be fighting on, trying to redeem himself.
I think Lamon Brewster should be rated higher. He was a very solid durable fighter and had solid power.
Looking at the fighters you've listed it really makes me think about the fights Wlad could have had: Golota, Ruiz, Liakhovich, Evander Holyfield, Oleg Maskaev, Luan Krasniqi, Nicolay Valuev. There could have been some good fights in that group for Wlad.
I've always questioned Tysons career as he fought no one in his so called invincible prime that really stood a chance IMO. The best 2 names are an almost 40 year old Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks who was no HW to be fair. Buster was too good on the night, would he have been in a rematch? Who knows? Buster was on it that night no doubt, had his mother just died? I'm sure it was something like that!
But as for PRIME Wlad vs Tyson, providing Wlad didn't turn up scared which I doubt, he's never fought anyone with a rep like Tysons so it's hard to be sure, BUT as long as he wasn't scared of Tyson I think he schools Tyson. After the first 3 rounds of Mike charging at him and being jabbed and grabbed, HE WOULD LOSE HEART. That was Tysons biggest enemy, he expected to blow people away and if it didn't happen he just imploded. Also the way Tyson fought wouldn't help him see too many rounds vs Wlad either. It's not like he would take Haye's way and move and stay out of Wlads reach all night. He'd be moving forward bobbing and weaving but Wlads jab is top class and I'd fancy it to gain Mikes respect fast.
On the flipside Wlads chin would give way IF Tyson could get to it CLEAN but that's no easy feat these days especially with someone giving up 8 inches in height and probably the same again in reach. Just a horrible matchup for Tyson IMO.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
I've always questioned Tysons career as he fought no one in his so called invincible prime that really stood a chance IMO. The best 2 names are an almost 40 year old Larry Holmes and Michael Spinks who was no HW to be fair. Buster was too good on the night, would he have been in a rematch? Who knows? Buster was on it that night no doubt, had his mother just died? I'm sure it was something like that!
But as for PRIME Wlad vs Tyson, providing Wlad didn't turn up scared which I doubt, he's never fought anyone with a rep like Tysons so it's hard to be sure, BUT as long as he wasn't scared of Tyson I think he schools Tyson. After the first 3 rounds of Mike charging at him and being jabbed and grabbed, HE WOULD LOSE HEART. That was Tysons biggest enemy, he expected to blow people away and if it didn't happen he just imploded. Also the way Tyson fought wouldn't help him see too many rounds vs Wlad either. It's not like he would take Haye's way and move and stay out of Wlads reach all night. He'd be moving forward bobbing and weaving but Wlads jab is top class and I'd fancy it to gain Mikes respect fast.
On the flipside Wlads chin would give way IF Tyson could get to it CLEAN but that's no easy feat these days especially with someone giving up 8 inches in height and probably the same again in reach. Just a horrible matchup for Tyson IMO.
Yeah, once you take a good hard look at Tyson's career and the greats he fought and how he did against them you soon realize that though he's better than Bruno & Ruddock he never did that well vs Lewis & Holyfield. Certainly the points in his career in which he had those fights did not coincide with his infamous "Prime" but how long did that "Prime" last? A couple of years at the very most. Kevin Rooney himself said when Tyson stopped using him as a trainer in 1988 there were signs of him slipping up very soon after. Rooney trained Tyson from 85 to 88 and those are the years where Tyson was "unbeatable" but look who he fought. You want to talk about weak heavyweight era look no further than the post Holmes pre Holyfield heavyweight division.....completely devoid of talent. Looking at the history of fighters of Tyson's ilk (Floyd Patterson, Jose Torres, et al) one also notices that they burn out very quickly and also they have trouble with fighters who control distance and tie up on the inside. Prime v Prime Tyson would have at the most 5 rounds to stop Wlad, after 5 rounds the pace slows for Tyson and there's less and less chance of him winning. If Wlad survives the first 2 rounds and any round after (if) he scores a knockdown on Tyson then the fight is elementary, it's Wlad by TKO/KO late.
I do wonder how Wlad would have done vs Evander Holyfield just after Holyfield beat Ruiz & Wlad beat Byrd for the first time in 2000. I think it would have been a very special fight. Nobody knows now or back then if Holyfield could have taken the punches from Wlad or if Wlad was patient enough or durable enough to handle Holyfield at that time. Would have been a real bust up IMO!
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
Tyson only ever fought one person who was in the Premier League and was similar sizewise to Wlad and he got schooled.
As for all this prime Tyson shit, I don't buy it. Tyson fought Bruno in '89 and got hurt but when he came out of prison and fought him again in '96 he beat the shit out of Bruno and Bruno had improved in that time too. I just find that Tyson fans like to fall back on him being past it, I on the other hand prefer to look at WHO he fought in this time and in his PRIME he fought no one after it he fought Lennox and Evander got schooled and then Tyson fans just claim he's past it.
He was still blowing bums away though just like in his prime :(
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Tyson only ever fought one person who was in the Premier League and was similar sizewise to Wlad and he got schooled.
As for all this prime Tyson shit, I don't buy it. Tyson fought Bruno in '89 and got hurt but when he came out of prison and fought him again in '96 he beat the shit out of Bruno and Bruno had improved in that time too. I just find that Tyson fans like to fall back on him being past it, I on the other hand prefer to look at WHO he fought in this time and in his PRIME he fought no one after it he fought Lennox and Evander got schooled and then Tyson fans just claim he's past it.
He was still blowing bums away though just like in his prime :(
People don't like to be realistic about their favorites. I'm certain I view Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman, and The Klitschko brothers that way, but I don't think it's any more or less ridiculous as the Tyson and Ali assumptions that they were the 2 single best fighters ever in the history of the sport. These athletes are men, they aren't perfect and they all had their issues with certain styles at certain points in time in their careers.
I like to see what matchups would cause a fighter the most trouble and ponder the results of that hypothetical match. For example the Wlad-Holyfield in 2000 match. This is the post Purrity but pre Sanders & more importantly pre Brewster Wlad who fought in a crouch and went in to fight both guns a blazin' vs the post Lewis rematch Holyfield who just barely eeked by John Ruiz. To give some background, in 2002 Wladimir demolished Ray Mercer in 6 rounds becoming the first ever fighter to stop him. Now I concede Wlad's chin is suspect, his defense at this time was horrible, he was a 1 dimensional fighter and Holyfield was as durable as the day is long until the James Toney fight where he tore his rotator cuff. That being said, Holyfield's lack of punching power and ever so slightly diminished punching output could have allowed Wladimir to really bust him up for 5-6 rounds, the problems would come later and either Wlad wears down or wears down Evander and to me that's a great question in hindsight.
For Mike Tyson, the matches I think would have really boosted his legacy (not that it needed it) would have been post prison matches vs Riddick Bowe & Shannon Briggs, maybe Michael Moorer or George Foreman as well. Now I am 100% certain Foreman would manhandle Tyson at damn near any point in his career. As much of a monster as Tyson was, Foreman was bigger...meaner...and scarier. Riddick Bowe & Michael Moorer both beat Evander Holyfield who was Tyson's main nemisis. Moorer had speed and good power, but I think durability would have been his worst enemy vs Tyson ALTHOUGH MM took Holyfield's best shots when Tyson did not so it would have been interesting to see that play out. Riddick Bowe had the style to beat Tyson, the size, the skill, the heart....butI think his power is overrated, his chin is overrated, and he did not has discipline in the ring. Bowe would give up his height and reach on numerous occasions and it would make the fight more difficult for himself...Tyson could have beaten Bowe IMO. Shannon Briggs was one of the most dangerous fighters of recent memory. Big, fast hands, powerful, and athletic...a post prison Tyson would have trouble, but the heart of Briggs was occasionally weak and if anyone could make you question yourself in the ring it would have to be Tyson....Tommy Morrison would have also been a good fight and a HUGE money maker. If Tyson fought Morrison it would have been damn near close to Holmes-Cooney in regards to hype and electricity around the match, Tyson probably wins that one as well, but it would have been damn fun to watch.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
Agree with the both of you. Tyson struggled with Tony Tucker, Green and to an extent Ruddock(although that was already well past Tysons best form), but those guys had chins. I can't envision any way Wlad would avoid getting tagged early and hence losing by KO, simple as.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
And who in his prime did he take on and beat that makes you think he would beat Wlad? It's ok saying he'd blow such and such away. Tyson blew bums away, I never ever in all his career saw him blow out a top notch fighter in his prime. He fought a past his prime Evander and got fucking hammered and a prime Lewis (to be fair Tyson was in clear decline by this time) and got obliterated.
Wlad is a top notch fighter whether you like his style or not. I think Tyson has serious issues with Wlad.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
The issue becomes whether Wlad could really avoid taking a SINGLE flush shot. It's well and good to say Tyson struggled with guys, but he would only need to land once against Wlad and the fight is over. Not to mention how easy it is to flip that arguement around and ask who Wlad has fought that measures up to Tyson... And he's still managed to get knocked senseless.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
And who in his prime did he take on and beat that makes you think he would beat Wlad? It's ok saying he'd blow such and such away. Tyson blew bums away, I never ever in all his career saw him blow out a top notch fighter in his prime. He fought a past his prime Evander and got fucking hammered and a prime Lewis (to be fair Tyson was in clear decline by this time) and got obliterated.
Wlad is a top notch fighter whether you like his style or not. I think Tyson has serious issues with Wlad.
And who has Wlad fought at any time in his career that is anything like Tyson. The only thing I alluded to concerning style is that Wlads is tailor made for a prime Tyson.
I'm no fan of Tyson or Wlad so I have no dog in a fight. Tyson imo makes short work.
And yeah Wlad is top notch is the lamest heavyweight era in history and he's been floored about 11 times during it.
-
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Peak Tyson beats Wlad, who will not be able to hold off the ferocity of Tyson’s combination punching, speed, accuracy and power. Wlad will try and hold, paw with his jab, panic and get knocked out in 5-6 rounds. Other than that Wlad does OK against Tyson.
:rolleyes:
Wlad 6'6....Mike Tyson 5'10
Wlad's reach 81".....Tyson's 71"
Weight Wlad 244...Tyson 218
Sure he's quick and fast and all, but I just don't see Tyson beating Wlad at Wlad's peak.
I don't see the point of using height and reach as arguments. Razor Ruddock was 6-3, with an 82" reach..... and prime Tyson handled him just fine. And Wlad's chin is more questionable than Razor's. It's ok to give Wlad his props.... but a prime Tyson takes him apart.
Wlad would not fight Tyson like Buster Douglas fought him.... driving him back.... refusing to be bullied.... trading with Tyson. That's not Wlad's style. And if and when Tyson ever connected one of those haymakers against Wlad, it would be "good night Irene". Gotta keep it real.
Exactly.
There are two Wlads in the same career. The pre-clinch Wlad and the post-clinch Wlad. I’m sure the Wlad that learned how to clinch gives Tyson a tougher out but really the prime Tyson prior to getting ruined completely by King would have butchered Wlad and I’m no fan of either. Reach and height are negated here by speed, pin point freight train punching and some of the best head movement ever. Add this to Wlads notorious slow starts and he’s a goner. He might want to put a couple of ads on the bottom of his shoes.
And who in his prime did he take on and beat that makes you think he would beat Wlad? It's ok saying he'd blow such and such away. Tyson blew bums away, I never ever in all his career saw him blow out a top notch fighter in his prime. He fought a past his prime Evander and got fucking hammered and a prime Lewis (to be fair Tyson was in clear decline by this time) and got obliterated.
Wlad is a top notch fighter whether you like his style or not. I think Tyson has serious issues with Wlad.
And who has Wlad fought at any time in his career that is anything like Tyson. The only thing I alluded to concerning style is that Wlads is tailor made for a prime Tyson.
I'm no fan of Tyson or Wlad so I have no dog in a fight. Tyson imo makes short work.
And yeah Wlad is top notch is the lamest heavyweight era in history and he's been floored about 11 times during it.
Tysons era was as bad if not worse IMO. Witherspoon was about the best of the rest and he never even fought him. Much of that was due to Bonecrusher sparking him. Then again if Bonecrusher had tried before the final 30 seconds against Tyson he might have sparked him too. I'd say Haye is probably as good as anyone Tyson fought barring Holmes and Holmes was way way past it when Tyson fought him.
How is Wlad tailor made for Tyson? He hated being clinched, Wlad is the best I've ever seen at it. I'm not defending his style, I wish Wlad would open up more, but for me his intelligence is his biggest enemy. He knows he can control fights without having to get involved in a brawl.
Wlad also hits very hard, If Evander can KO him Wlad would put him to sleep. I'm not knocking Evander here, I'd have him to beat pretty much anyone since the 70's on his best day and that even includes Lennox. But Evander wasn't a Huge puncher as a HW.
To talk about Wlads defeats isn't really appropriate either. If you watch the first Peter fight and then watch the second, for me they were the beginning and the end of a new learning curve for Wlad, a learning curve that made him the best HW in the world BY FAR! He got floored multiple times (3 i think) and got up to win the first fight which to me showed that Wlad really wanted it now, I don't actually think Wlad didn't want it as such but after winning the olympics I think he just expected it all to just come and forgot he really had to work, I mean he gassed against Purrity! Could anyone see him gassing now? I don't. By the time Peter and Wlad fought again Wlad had improved so much that Peter didn't stand a chance.
Now if that was "PRIME" Tyson fighting them 2 fights I'd go with him to beat Wlad in the first fight but by the time the second came along? I don't see it! Wlad has completely got over his losses now and is in his prime (just watch him capitulate this weekend now), he's confident (which is a huge part of it), he's as big as you can get without seriously losing athleticism and he knows how to use it. A few years ago I thought Vitali was the better of the 2 because of his toughness, BUT Wlads boxing skills are so much more superior I think he's better now than Vitali ever was!
Wlad now beats Tyson at any point who to me is nowhere near as good as the Legend suggests.
-
Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
Yes but Master they were all shit. Obliterate bums all you want Lamar Clark did that, what happened when he fought anyone half decent? He got schooled too!
-
It would actually take Mike Tyson quite some time to stop Tony Thompson.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
Yes but Master they were all shit. Obliterate bums all you want Lamar Clark did that, what happened when he fought anyone half decent? He got schooled too!
Exactly these people are criticising Tyson’s opposition yet Wlad’s are embarrassingly lame. Even then Wlad is so cautious that he bores them to death before he goes in for the kill. Wlad is a good champion and can only beat what is put in front of him but keep it real. Tyson would flatten Wlad pre clinch or post clinch version.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
It would actually take Mike Tyson quite some time to stop Tony Thompson.
Not 12 rounds.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Picking a prime Tyson is not hating on Wlad. It's considering some obvious factors. People like to point out the riff-raff that Tyson faced. But he also faced some top opposition, and some tall guys with a lot of reach. Lyle pointed out Tyson's height and reach vs. Wlad's height and reach. But Tyson beat a very good (and hard-punching) Razor Ruddock, who was just as big and had more reach. End of that argument. People also choose to ignore that Wlad was knocked out several times earlier in his career. His chin is suspect. The fact that most bums who have faced him later on come into the ring scared shitless, doesn't exactly dispel the "weak chin" rap. He hasn't been challenged by someone of Tyson's skills, quickness, and explosive power. Someone mentioned Tyson getting KO'ed by Holyfield. That was due to an accumulation of punches. Holyfield fought Tyson without being intimidated, just like Buster Douglas did. They both hit Tyson with numerous punches, before Tyson went down. Doesn't mean Wlad can do it. Wlad fights more timidly, more defensively, taking advantage of scared shitless opposition. Cannot be compared to Tyson. Tyson would gladly take one or two (or three) right hands from Wlad on the way in to take off his head with one of those airborne left hooks. Tyson, as opposed to Wlad, did not have a suspect chin. In fact he had a pretty good chin. Accumulation of punches is what put him down. Boxing is a matter of styles. We're not arguing here who had the greater championship run, or better record. We're arguing who would win between a prime Tyson and a prime Wlad. Prime Tyson was full of head movement.... hard to hit. His bobbing and weaving got him inside many good fighters. Wlad would've been no exception. Wlad would've been scared to get tagged by Tyson, and for good reason. Tyson would've gladly risked a shot or two from Wlad. Heavyweight fights are often defined by a single punch. That's really all Tyson would need against Wlad.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
Yes but Master they were all shit. Obliterate bums all you want Lamar Clark did that, what happened when he fought anyone half decent? He got schooled too!
Exactly these people are criticising Tyson’s opposition yet Wlad’s are embarrassingly lame. Even then Wlad is so cautious that he bores them to death before he goes in for the kill. Wlad is a good champion and can only beat what is put in front of him but keep it real. Tyson would flatten Wlad pre clinch or post clinch version.
Wlad's opposition is bigger but definitely not better than that of Mike Tyson.
And Tony Thompson wouldn't last 6 rounds with Tyson, he's big and he's got guts, but he's slowwwwwwwwwww as a glacier.
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Hard to break through the defense...he's only been stopped 1 time, and that was by Wlad. Styles make fights and I hate to break it to you but Tyson wouldn't have an easy time with every single fighter since his precious "prime" ended. If a chinny out of shape Ruddock and Bonecrusher Smith could last the distance with Tyson then how is it inconceivable that Wlad could last 12?
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
It would actually take Mike Tyson quite some time to stop Tony Thompson.
Tyson fighting a soutpaw!! Don't be silly! Tony thompson is better than james smith and buster douglas, trust me.....smith was outboxed by axel schultz, levi billups and marvis frazier lol
A motivated and fully fit thompson would not have lost to david bey, mike white, jesse ferguson and stefan tansgstad, nor would he look like a whale in the ring like buster often did, thompsons size and southpaw stance would have been awkward for tyson when you consider he did struggle at times with rangy tall fighters and he never fought southpaws!
Thompson put up a better fight against Wlad than Chambers, haye, Chagaev, Rahman, Peter II, Byrd II, Austin, Brock, and Brewster II. Chambers lasted longer, but never won a minute of any round.
The only opponent Wlad had more trouble against in the past 5 years was the elusive and skillful Ibragimov.
I also read he beat up Haye in sparring. You underrate thompson, for me he is the best american HW, i rate him higher than chambers, mitchell and kingpin johnson.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
You underrate sultan.
Actually Mike Tyson loved this guy. Tyson said he had simliar hand speed to himself and nice skills. Tyson wanted to be in his corner for the Wlad fight but couldn't leave the state after legal issues.
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/galler...SULTAN_jpg.jpg
Ibragimov aka Barney Rubble an olympic silver medallist (more than tyson ever got) who looked about as tough as cream pie.
Very good fighter! not flashy or anything but he fought smart...an intelligent fighter indeed and actually quite slick! Byrd v ibragimov would have been a chess match..
He was good enough to beat everyone not named Klitschko in my view. Always said he is the one heavy who should come back. He had fast hands, power, and could punch or box from his southpaw stance. His performances against briggs and an ageing holyfield were pretty much boxing clinics...and let's not forget he fought his way to a heavyweight unification fight! Wlad gave him massive respect in that fight (boring style clash) but klitschko was aware of iggies ability no doubt...
Oh well. Hope he is happy. took the money and got out with his health and respect in tact, good luck to him.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Bruno style was made to order for Tyson which was why he beat him convincingly the second time. The first time he had a fight with Mitch Green, broke his hand, marriage problems and was not ready mentally.
Tucker hurt his hand on Tyson with the uppercut and he had no problems with him, so stop making up Tyson had issues.
Tyson destroyed his opponents, as bad as you may want to make them out to be, he obliterated them like a great fighter that he was.
Wlads holding would only stall the inevitable, which is being beaten by Tyson.
Master how long you reckon it would have taken Tyson to stop Tony Thompson ?
Or Sultan Ibragimov ?
;D
You underrate sultan.
Actually Mike Tyson loved this guy. Tyson said he had simliar hand speed to himself and nice skills. Tyson wanted to be in his corner for the Wlad fight but couldn't leave the state after legal issues.
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/galler...SULTAN_jpg.jpg
Ibragimov aka Barney Rubble an olympic silver medallist (more than tyson ever got) who looked about as tough as cream pie.
Very good fighter! not flashy or anything but he fought smart...an intelligent fighter indeed and actually quite slick! Byrd v ibragimov would have been a chess match..
He was good enough to beat everyone not named Klitschko in my view. Always said he is the one heavy who should come back. He had fast hands, power, and could punch or box from his
southpaw stance. His performances against briggs and an ageing holyfield were pretty much boxing clinics...and let's not forget he fought his way to a heavyweight unification fight! Wlad gave him massive respect in that fight (boring style clash) but klitschko was aware of iggies ability no doubt...
Oh well. Hope he is happy. took the money and got out with his health and respect in tact, good luck to him.
Did you see his fight with Ray Austin ?
Wasn't exactly Ali-Fraizer.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Why are u focusing on one fight? You can do that with any fighter! Go watch ali v cooper or a 6-0 leon spinks! Go watch frazier vs bonavena and bugner lol
Frazier would not be allowed to fight today anyway on medical grounds due to being blind in one eye his entire career!And if he did it would be at CW probably anyway. A fight from the 70's is irrelevant today, this old timer nonsense is boring.
And actually it was a good scrap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8olMmVs-mvc
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Why are u focusing on one fight? You can do that with any fighter! Go watch ali v cooper or a 6-0 leon spinks! Go watch frazier vs bonavena and bugner lol
Frazier would not be allowed to fight today anyway on medical grounds due to being blind in one eye his entire career!And if he did it would be at CW probably anyway. A fight from the 70's is irrelevant today, this old timer nonsense is boring.
And actually it was a good scrap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8olMmVs-mvc
Sultan Ibragimov went life and death with Ray Austin who has a lot of heart, but not much else. Both are pretty crap fighters compared to many of the 70's fighters or better yet 90's era heavyweights.
-
Emanuel Steward took the Klitschko
boys to the top level and has kept them there. Jab, jab and then the straight punch. Hold one glove in their face and hit with the other one. Hit 'em on the arms, back them up, if
they get inside hold like super glue. Push them around, out muscle them and don't let them have the center of the ring, ever! Oh yeah, do anything the ref will let you get away with, especially put as much of your weight (lean) on them as possible! Keep them on the ropes as much as possible. This is the formula that Steward has taught them and they have been great students.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Why are u focusing on one fight? You can do that with any fighter! Go watch ali v cooper or a 6-0 leon spinks! Go watch frazier vs bonavena and bugner lol
Frazier would not be allowed to fight today anyway on medical grounds due to being blind in one eye his entire career!And if he did it would be at CW probably anyway. A fight from the 70's is irrelevant today, this old timer nonsense is boring.
And actually it was a good scrap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8olMmVs-mvc
Sultan Ibragimov went life and death with Ray Austin who has a lot of heart, but not much else. Both are pretty crap fighters compared to many of the 70's fighters or better yet 90's era heavyweights.
Lary holmes went life and death with a 15-0 tim witherspoon and bummy carl williams(probably lost to both) ibragimov would beat both of them! Ibragimov is better than i.e oleg maskaev who kayoed former lineal champ rahman twice!!
A motivated and fully fit sultan would be competitive in any era, he wasn't in the best shape against austin but i dont know why no one will give him credit for the dismantling of briggs Who Was A Quality Fighter, briggs had just won the WBO heavyweight defeating Liakhovich ffs!
Ibragimov is one of those rare things a southpaw HW champion! But if you would rather tell me that he performed poorly against Austin bla bla bla then...
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Wlad has fought (and beat) more southpaws than any other heavyweight ever in the history of the sport, I think the total is up around 7 or 8 right now.
I still stand by Tony Thompson as being an ok fighter, I would fancy his chances vs smaller heavyweights, I think Wlad just took an all business approach to the fight and scared the shit out of him. Wlad's whole "Are you 100% healthy because I don't want to hear any bullcrap excuses after the fight" rant probably put Thompson on warning that he was about to get his ass kicked and psychologically I think Thompson is a weak fighter on the championship level. Give Thompson Chirs Byrd's guts and THEN you'd have something!
Sultan Ibragimov was an ok guy, too heavy for cruiser and not big enough for heavyweight. He was quick, and very crafty, and he made the fight vs Wlad ugly, but in order to give himself a chance to win he had to. He didn't have huge power to blast opponents out of the water, he relied on handspeed and that just didn't work vs Wlad who stalked him down for 12 rounds and any time Wlad tried for a KO Sultan would cling on for dear life or run away.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Why are u focusing on one fight? You can do that with any fighter! Go watch ali v cooper or a 6-0 leon spinks! Go watch frazier vs bonavena and bugner lol
Frazier would not be allowed to fight today anyway on medical grounds due to being blind in one eye his entire career!And if he did it would be at CW probably anyway. A fight from the 70's is irrelevant today, this old timer nonsense is boring.
And actually it was a good scrap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8olMmVs-mvc
Sultan Ibragimov went life and death with Ray Austin who has a lot of heart, but not much else. Both are pretty crap fighters compared to many of the 70's fighters or better yet 90's era heavyweights.
Lary holmes went life and death with a 15-0 tim witherspoon and bummy carl williams(probably lost to both) ibragimov would beat both of them! Ibragimov is better than i.e oleg maskaev who kayoed former lineal champ rahman twice!!
A motivated and fully fit sultan would be competitive in any era, he wasn't in the best shape against austin but i dont know why no one will give him credit for the dismantling of briggs Who Was A Quality Fighter, briggs had just won the WBO heavyweight defeating Liakhovich ffs!
Ibragimov is one of those rare things a
southpaw HW champion! But if you would rather tell me that he performed poorly against Austin bla bla bla then...
You're an idiot aren't you.... :bag:
Sultan Ibragimov being better than Tim Witherspoon or a prime Oleg Maskaev is delusional.
You are living in denial brah.
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Why are u focusing on one fight? You can do that with any fighter! Go watch ali v cooper or a 6-0 leon spinks! Go watch frazier vs bonavena and bugner lol
Frazier would not be allowed to fight today anyway on medical grounds due to being blind in one eye his entire career!And if he did it would be at CW probably anyway. A fight from the 70's is irrelevant today, this old timer nonsense is boring.
And actually it was a good scrap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8olMmVs-mvc
Sultan Ibragimov went life and death with Ray Austin who has a lot of heart, but not much else. Both are pretty crap fighters compared to many of the 70's fighters or better yet 90's era heavyweights.
Lary holmes went life and death with a 15-0 tim witherspoon and bummy carl williams(probably lost to both) ibragimov would beat both of them! Ibragimov is better than i.e oleg maskaev who kayoed former lineal champ rahman twice!!
A motivated and fully fit sultan would be competitive in any era, he wasn't in the best shape against austin but i dont know why no one will give him credit for the dismantling of briggs Who Was A Quality Fighter, briggs had just won the WBO heavyweight defeating Liakhovich ffs!
Ibragimov is one of those rare things a
southpaw HW champion! But if you would rather tell me that he performed poorly against Austin bla bla bla then...
You're an idiot aren't you.... :bag:
Sultan Ibragimov being better than Tim Witherspoon or a prime Oleg Maskaev is delusional.
You are living in denial brah.
Ignorance is bliss!! Let me educate you...
You do know that maskaev was knocked out in 2 rounds by lance whitaker don't you? Ibragimov easily stopped whitaker in 7!
Ibragimov also stopped javier mora in 1 round , mora beat the shit out of kirk johnson who holds a stoppage win over maskaev too!
You are just trying to make out ibragimov is shitter because oleg maskaev kayoed rahman twice! And seen as rahman knocked out the great lennox lewis it hurts to having to admit that in truth rahman was basically a one trick pony hence you convince yourselves that anyone with a win over rahman must be better than ibragimov (even though they never fought) because he kayoed the great lennox!
Truth is there is no way ibragimov would lose to bummy american corey sanders let alone get kayoed by him like maskaev did.
No evidence to suggest ibragimov is a worse fighter than oleg, on the contrary in fact!!
As for witherspoon...snipes, pinklon thomas, smith, martin, donald, thunder, ribalta, tubbs etc he lost most of them! Im a witherspoon fan, tyson should have fought him!! But to suggest ibragimov (who only lost to savon at the 2000 olympics on points) and is a slick southpaw champ with a great chin would not give witherspoon all kinds of problems is just silly! Timmy was (arguably) outboxed by greg page twice ffs!
Read it again: Sultan ibragimov 22-1-1. The former WBO heavyweight champion. Fought his way up to a unification fight with wlad. Has an olympic silver, world amateur silver and european bronze. Noteable wins include shannon briggs, javier mora (who beat up kirk johnson) lance whitaker who stopped oleg maskaev and outpointed monte barrett (big lance was coming into his fight with iggy with only one very SD loss!) ibragimov easily outpointed an ageing holyfield too.
So how is ibragimov anything other than a world class operator? He might look about as tough as cream pie but appearances can be deceptive ask superheavyweights whitaker and briggs!
So sorry but your'e the one living in cloud cuckoo land mate not me....take your rose coloured nostalgia blinkers off! Keep living in fantasy land...
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
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Re: Top 10 heavyweights of wlad's era...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Why are u focusing on one fight? You can do that with any fighter! Go watch ali v cooper or a 6-0 leon spinks! Go watch frazier vs bonavena and bugner lol
Frazier would not be allowed to fight today anyway on medical grounds due to being blind in one eye his entire career!And if he did it would be at CW probably anyway. A fight from the 70's is irrelevant today, this old timer nonsense is boring.
And actually it was a good scrap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8olMmVs-mvc
Sultan Ibragimov went life and death with Ray Austin who has a lot of heart, but not much else. Both are pretty crap fighters compared to many of the 70's fighters or better yet 90's era heavyweights.
Lary holmes went life and death with a 15-0 tim witherspoon and bummy carl williams(probably lost to both) ibragimov would beat both of them! Ibragimov is better than i.e oleg maskaev who kayoed former lineal champ rahman twice!!
A motivated and fully fit sultan would be competitive in any era, he wasn't in the best shape against austin but i dont know why no one will give him credit for the dismantling of briggs Who Was A Quality Fighter, briggs had just won the WBO heavyweight defeating Liakhovich ffs!
Ibragimov is one of those rare things a
southpaw HW champion! But if you would rather tell me that he performed poorly against Austin bla bla bla then...
You're an idiot aren't you.... :bag:
Sultan Ibragimov being better than Tim Witherspoon or a prime Oleg Maskaev is delusional.
You are living in denial brah.
Ignorance is bliss!! Let me educate you...
You do know that maskaev was knocked out in 2 rounds by lance whitaker don't you? Ibragimov easily stopped whitaker in 7!
Ibragimov also stopped javier mora in 1 round , mora beat the shit out of kirk johnson who holds a stoppage win over maskaev too!
You are just trying to make out ibragimov is shitter because oleg maskaev kayoed rahman twice! And seen as rahman knocked out the great lennox lewis it hurts to having to admit that in truth rahman was basically a one trick pony hence you convince yourselves that anyone with a win over rahman must be better than ibragimov (even though they never fought) because he kayoed the great lennox!
Truth is there is no way ibragimov would lose to bummy american corey sanders let alone get kayoed by him like maskaev did.
No evidence to suggest ibragimov is a worse fighter than oleg, on the contrary in fact!!
As for witherspoon...snipes, pinklon thomas, smith, martin, donald, thunder, ribalta, tubbs etc he lost most of them! Im a witherspoon fan, tyson should have fought him!! But to suggest ibragimov (who only lost to savon at the 2000 olympics on points) and is a slick southpaw champ with a great chin would not give witherspoon all kinds of problems is just silly! Timmy was (arguably) outboxed by greg page twice ffs!
Read it again: Sultan ibragimov 22-1-1. The former WBO heavyweight champion. Fought his way up to a unification fight with wlad. Has an olympic silver, world amateur silver and european bronze. Noteable wins include shannon briggs, javier mora (who beat up kirk johnson) lance whitaker who stopped oleg maskaev and outpointed monte barrett (big lance was coming into his fight with iggy with only one very SD loss!) ibragimov easily outpointed an ageing holyfield too.
So how is ibragimov anything other than a world class operator? He might look about as tough as cream pie but appearances can be deceptive ask superheavyweights whitaker and briggs!
So sorry but your'e the one living in cloud cuckoo land mate not me....take your rose coloured nostalgia blinkers off! Keep living in fantasy land...
This is all well and good. An argument that will never be won by either side, because stats will be skewed out of convenience.
But here's the REAL question:
What did Ibragimov do when in the ring with Wlad??
Answer: Absolutely jack shit!!!!!
So under that premise..... the Wlad-Sultan fight means absolutely ZILCH to me, except that it gave me the best night's sleep I had had in a long time. And Sultan's other accomplishments also mean little to me. Because when he had his day in the sun....... he did a wonderful David Haye impression.
