Retired fighters we felt were on PED's!?

Hi,

I know this post is speculating by its very nature, but any fighter of old that you can think back on and have an inclination that they used PED's??

For some reason I always felt that Hagler used PED's. I hate to tarnish a good name like that, but he always appeared too jacked up and too machine like to be natural.

I also feel that Aaron Pryor used PED's. You can tell by the way he fought that he had something extra, more than the other guy.

Who else do you feel had PED's. (I also feel Sugar Ray Leonard used PED's in some of his fights- the fight vs. Hearns 1 and the fight vs. Duran II, the "no mas" fight.

What do you say?

This is the most stupid thread since I made a thread about which fighter would die next. Speculating about legends that you think may be cheating is not good.

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Originally Posted by Master

This is the most stupid thread since I made a thread about which fighter would die next. Speculating about legends that you think may be cheating is not good.

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I know it was far out... but what can be said?

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Master

This is the most stupid thread since I made a thread about which fighter would die next. Speculating about legends that you think may be cheating is not good.

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I know it was far out... but what can be said?

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Nothing. ;)

I'm sure if you went as far back as 1865 and researched you would find all kinds of questionable practices. Drugs of one kind or another have been a part of this game no doubt since ancient Greece. I bet there were all kinds of amphetamines passed around in the 1920's and 30's. Today fighters use all kinds of chemical cook ups to mask use like in the case with diuretics and then claiming it was for weight loss. Its still synthetic speed and has the same effect as an upper or a benny.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I'm sure if you went as far back as 1865 and researched you would find all kinds of questionable practices. Drugs of one kind or another have been a part of this game no doubt since ancient Greece. I bet there were all kinds of amphetamines passed around in the 1920's and 30's. Today fighters use all kinds of chemical cook ups to mask use like in the case with diuretics and then claiming it was for weight loss. Its still synthetic speed and has the same effect as an upper or a benny.

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Exactly... some of those guys looked unnatural.

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Originally Posted by Master

I made a thread about which fighter would die next.

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LOL!

To answer the question thought, I'd bet my fucking house that Tyson was on steroids.

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Originally Posted by Master

This is the most stupid thread since I made a thread about which fighter would die next. Speculating about legends that you think may be cheating is not good.

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Best thread ever.

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Master

This is the most stupid thread since I made a thread about which fighter would die next. Speculating about legends that you think may be cheating is not good.

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Best thread ever.

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It got deleted thanks to a number of complaints. :p

So any fighters past or present we think are deffo paedophiles? Rapers?

Logic: 90% of boxers today are on PED's, so naturally all boxers in past eras were on PED's, also.


:headscratch:

The only thing I will say about boxers and Ped's is:

There are way more boxers than we might imagine that are using substances. Why? Because there is too much money involved and because boxing is ill ruled on that matter; too many different agencies, organisations and laws that are more than different from a state to another. Without uniformity of tests and laws with rigorous controls, you can be sure that those who got caught are only the peak of the Iceberg.
For those interested in that matter, I HIGHLY recommand you to read the following article by Don CAtlin, one of the top notch leader in matter of anti-doping techniques, the article is not too long, well written and sums up damn well the problem:

Max Boxing - News - Dr. Don Catlin on Anti-Doping in Boxing

So who was/is on dope? I won't say a name but this; way more than what we might think.

NIgel Benn was probably on some shit..

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Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

NIgel Benn was probably on some shit..

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Reckless style. Bloodshot eyes. Socket hidden in his trunks. If Benn was on something it was fucking crack

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Originally Posted by Nameless

The only thing I will say about boxers and Ped's is:

There are way more boxers than we might imagine that are using substances. Why? Because there is too much money involved and because boxing is ill ruled on that matter; too many different agencies, organisations and laws that are more than different from a state to another. Without uniformity of tests and laws with rigorous controls, you can be sure that those who got caught are only the peak of the Iceberg.
For those interested in that matter, I HIGHLY recommand you to read the following article by Don CAtlin, one of the top notch leader in matter of anti-doping techniques, the article is not too long, well written and sums up damn well the problem:

Max Boxing - News - Dr. Don Catlin on Anti-Doping in Boxing

So who was/is on dope? I won't say a name but this; way more than what we might think.

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Good stuff.

But, the reason I started this thread was because everyone had an idea Pac and Mosely were on PED's by looking at their performance- and then that triggered investigations.

So, alls I'm suggesting is that looking back- who would you consider based on what we know now as tell-tale-signs of PED's. ??

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Originally Posted by Master

This is the most stupid thread since I made a thread about which fighter would die next. Speculating about legends that you think may be cheating is not good.

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You're not a Floyd Mayweather fan are you?...lol

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Nameless

The only thing I will say about boxers and Ped's is:

There are way more boxers than we might imagine that are using substances. Why? Because there is too much money involved and because boxing is ill ruled on that matter; too many different agencies, organisations and laws that are more than different from a state to another. Without uniformity of tests and laws with rigorous controls, you can be sure that those who got caught are only the peak of the Iceberg.
For those interested in that matter, I HIGHLY recommand you to read the following article by Don CAtlin, one of the top notch leader in matter of anti-doping techniques, the article is not too long, well written and sums up damn well the problem:

Max Boxing - News - Dr. Don Catlin on Anti-Doping in Boxing

So who was/is on dope? I won't say a name but this; way more than what we might think.

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Good stuff.

But, the reason I started this thread was because everyone had an idea Pac and Mosely were on PED's by looking at their performance- and then that triggered investigations.

So, alls I'm suggesting is that looking back- who would you consider based on what we know now as tell-tale-signs of PED's. ??

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Well, just with the eye, it's pretty tough to say, especially many changes can be make in matter of diets and training and if you do not specifically follow one boxer on his entire journey, there can be doubts but hard to prove.
IF I absolutely got to give an example (though I admit there is no scientific evidence backing my personnal observation), I'd tend to be very doubtful about a boxer (for example), who always struggled to make 12 rounds because of his cardio when he has very good phyical trainer with him but that would somehow and magically at some point make 12 rounds without a drop of sweat.
The body has its limits, it is possible to improve it but I'll always be skeptical wherever there is a 100% and total revolution.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Master

I made a thread about which fighter would die next.

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LOL!

To answer the question thought, I'd bet my fucking house that Tyson was on steroids.

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Even when Cus was still around, or are you talking about the post prison Mike who was lifting weights all the time?

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Hi,

I know this post is speculating by its very nature, but any fighter of old that you can think back on and have an inclination that they used PED's??

For some reason I always felt that Hagler used PED's. I hate to tarnish a good name like that, but he always appeared too jacked up and too machine like to be natural.

I also feel that Aaron Pryor used PED's. You can tell by the way he fought that he had something extra, more than the other guy.

Who else do you feel had PED's. (I also feel Sugar Ray Leonard used PED's in some of his fights- the fight vs. Hearns 1 and the fight vs. Duran II, the "no mas" fight.

What do you say?

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According to Luis Resto it was crushed up asthma pills that were given to Pryor in his water and Resto was given the same.

You cannot keep making this BS up about Leonard.

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Originally Posted by Master

You cannot keep making this BS up about Leonard.

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Ray was a cokehead bro.

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

You cannot keep making this BS up about Leonard.

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Ray was a cokehead bro.

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Being on coke and using PED are two very different things. Floyd uses injections in his hands which are banned in some states. Does that make him a cheat?

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

You cannot keep making this BS up about Leonard.

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Ray was a cokehead bro.

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Being on coke and using PED are two very different things. Floyd uses injections in his hands which are banned in some states. Does that make him a cheat?

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I'm not saying he used coke as a PED, but I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that he could have done some lines before some of his fights which may or may not have enhanced his performance. If Floyd uses those injections for a fight in a state in which they're banned then yes, he is cheating... Not big time cheating like loading your gloves or being roided up, but he would be breaking the rules.

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

You cannot keep making this BS up about Leonard.

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Ray was a cokehead bro.

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Being on coke and using PED are two very different things. Floyd uses injections in his hands which are banned in some states. Does that make him a cheat?

---

I'm not saying he used coke as a PED, but I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that he could have done some lines before some of his fights which may or may not have enhanced his performance. If Floyd uses those injections for a fight in a state in which they're banned then yes, he is cheating... Not big time cheating like loading your gloves or being roided up, but he would be breaking the rules.

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It is a huge leap to say someone using coke is more likely to use PED.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

You cannot keep making this BS up about Leonard.

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Ray was a cokehead bro.

---

Being on coke and using PED are two very different things. Floyd uses injections in his hands which are banned in some states. Does that make him a cheat?

---

I'm not saying he used coke as a PED, but I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that he could have done some lines before some of his fights which may or may not have enhanced his performance. If Floyd uses those injections for a fight in a state in which they're banned then yes, he is cheating... Not big time cheating like loading your gloves or being roided up, but he would be breaking the rules.

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It is a huge leap to say someone using coke is more likely to use PED.

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It isn't actually, but I didn't say that.

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

You cannot keep making this BS up about Leonard.

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Ray was a cokehead bro.

---

Being on coke and using PED are two very different things. Floyd uses injections in his hands which are banned in some states. Does that make him a cheat?

---

I'm not saying he used coke as a PED, but I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that he could have done some lines before some of his fights which may or may not have enhanced his performance. If Floyd uses those injections for a fight in a state in which they're banned then yes, he is cheating... Not big time cheating like loading your gloves or being roided up, but he would be breaking the rules.

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It is a huge leap to say someone using coke is more likely to use PED.

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It isn't actually, but I didn't say that.

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It is and you are saying that if not then you are now.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

You cannot keep making this BS up about Leonard.

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Ray was a cokehead bro.

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Being on coke and using PED are two very different things. Floyd uses injections in his hands which are banned in some states. Does that make him a cheat?

---

I'm not saying he used coke as a PED, but I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that he could have done some lines before some of his fights which may or may not have enhanced his performance. If Floyd uses those injections for a fight in a state in which they're banned then yes, he is cheating... Not big time cheating like loading your gloves or being roided up, but he would be breaking the rules.

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It is a huge leap to say someone using coke is more likely to use PED.

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It isn't actually, but I didn't say that.

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It is and you are saying that if not then you are now.

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Yeah, I'd say someone who fucks around with drugs outside of boxing is probably slightly more likely to use drugs that will enhance their performance than someone who avoids drugs altogether, but that isn't what I said about Ray. I said he was a cokehead (which he's admitted to himself) and that it wasn't outside the realm of possibility that he could have gotten high before some of his fights, which may or may not have enhanced his performance. I don't know whether he did or not, but I know he was a cokehead because why in the fuck would he lie about that?

I thought he was using coke after his peak when he retired after about the 5th time.

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Originally Posted by Master

I thought he was using coke after his peak when he retired after about the 5th time.

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I honestly don't know when it was. I just read an interview a while back in which he said he was doing a shitload of coke for a while there.

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Originally Posted by Cormega

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Originally Posted by Master

I thought he was using coke after his peak when he retired after about the 5th time.

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I honestly don't know when it was. I just read an interview a while back in which he said he was doing a shitload of coke for a while there.

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Yes I read it to but thought it whilst he was in retirement. He was a very talented fighter, Manny said the most talented fighter he ever saw at the Kronk gym, so would hate to think he used anything. I do not like Leonard at all but he was an amazing fighter.

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Originally Posted by Cormega

Even when Cus was still around, or are you talking about the post prison Mike who was lifting weights all the time?

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Both, I'd reckon.

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Originally Posted by Cormega

According to Luis Resto it was crushed up asthma pills that were given to Pryor in his water and Resto was given the same.

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Panana Lewis gets my vote for the worst cheater EVER.

"Give me the one I mixed".

That's his codeword for the doped bottle? The one I mixed? Knowing that there are microphones in his corner and there are rules against having anything but water in your water bottle, and you say the one I "mixed"?

Why not "give me bottle A" or "give me the red bottle."

Dumbest guy in boxing history, glad he got banned.

Think most boxers have been on roids for a while and to that i say who cares. I mean if everyone is damn near doing it testing does nothing i mean might as well make the thing legal. I mean it also makes for better fights i dont see why everyone is so up tight about it its been around for a while now.

Holyfield was a roider.