Jose Sulaiman, WBC President, Passes Away at Age 82 - Boxing News
What happens with the WBC now?
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Jose Sulaiman, WBC President, Passes Away at Age 82 - Boxing News
What happens with the WBC now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
R.I.P. doesn't seem like he was an honest guy, but least he did set up some pensions and such for down and out fighters.
I'd say since I've read his son will be taking over that it will be business as usual.
Well, what can you say. He won't be forgotten in Boxing.
yeah he was a git but he is dead.... I don't even know what i am rambling about now... but the geezer is dead thats serious business lets leave it at that I hope it doesn't descend into some weird name calling. insult fest.. let the old guy rest in peace... I also realise I may cause inults to be directed at this fellow by pointing it out but whatever... i think we should let hi go
He was corrupt and a poor influence on the current state of affairs in the sport we love, but may he rest in peace.
He help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Given his immense influence on boxing, the man should receive a proper 21 gun salute to commemorate his passing.
It would be the first time in history every round is fired into the casket.
That's great, but it doesn't really excuse his reign of bullshit for the WBC. He did a great thing for Gennaro but fucked so many other fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
I'm sure at some point Don King has organised and paid charity events, but it doesn't changed the fact that he murdered someone.
Who exactly did he fuck? Sulaiman wasn't a promotor. He had no fighters under like King or Arum. He didn't get a percentage of fighters purses like they did. I'm not gonna claim he as was some saint. Cuz he wasn't. But he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be. Sulaiman always did what he could to try and help fighters who were down on there luck. And it wasn't just Mexican fighters. He helped out Rocky Lockridge and Iran Barkley when were on the streetsQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnThat's great, but it doesn't really excuse his reign of bullshit for the WBC. He did a great thing for Gennaro but fucked so many other fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
I'm sure at some point Don King has organised and paid charity events, but it doesn't changed the fact that he murdered someone.
I don't understand your last comment. You make it seem like he did something wrong. Yeah King murdered someone. But what was he suppose to do? Let the guy rob him? Come on now. It was justified. And in no way should it be held against him. It can be twisted many ways. But bottom line is this. If the man wasn't in someone elses house, taking shit that didn't belong to him he most likely wouldn't of died that night
The guy that Don King killed, he kicked to death on the street. He was a smaller guy, and Don beat him down and kicked him to death. The guy owed him money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWho exactly did he fuck? Sulaiman wasn't a promotor. He had no fighters under like King or Arum. He didn't get a percentage of fighters purses like they did. I'm not gonna claim he as was some saint. Cuz he wasn't. But he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be. Sulaiman always did what he could to try and help fighters who were down on there luck. And it wasn't just Mexican fighters. He helped out Rocky Lockridge and Iran Barkley when were on the streetsQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnThat's great, but it doesn't really excuse his reign of bullshit for the WBC. He did a great thing for Gennaro but fucked so many other fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
I'm sure at some point Don King has organised and paid charity events, but it doesn't changed the fact that he murdered someone.
I don't understand your last comment. You make it seem like he did something wrong. Yeah King murdered someone. But what was he suppose to do? Let the guy rob him? Come on now. It was justified. And in no way should it be held against him. It can be twisted many ways. But bottom line is this. If the man wasn't in someone elses house, taking shit that didn't belong to him he most likely wouldn't of died that night
Sulaiman wasn't good for boxing. I'm sure the earthworms will puke a little too.
Im sure JCC will be gutted , Jose made the rules up to suite JCC .
The amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
I was talking about the other guy he killed. King does have two murders to his nameQuote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldThe guy that Don King killed, he kicked to death on the street. He was a smaller guy, and Don beat him down and kicked him to death. The guy owed him money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWho exactly did he fuck? Sulaiman wasn't a promotor. He had no fighters under like King or Arum. He didn't get a percentage of fighters purses like they did. I'm not gonna claim he as was some saint. Cuz he wasn't. But he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be. Sulaiman always did what he could to try and help fighters who were down on there luck. And it wasn't just Mexican fighters. He helped out Rocky Lockridge and Iran Barkley when were on the streetsQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnThat's great, but it doesn't really excuse his reign of bullshit for the WBC. He did a great thing for Gennaro but fucked so many other fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
I'm sure at some point Don King has organised and paid charity events, but it doesn't changed the fact that he murdered someone.
I don't understand your last comment. You make it seem like he did something wrong. Yeah King murdered someone. But what was he suppose to do? Let the guy rob him? Come on now. It was justified. And in no way should it be held against him. It can be twisted many ways. But bottom line is this. If the man wasn't in someone elses house, taking shit that didn't belong to him he most likely wouldn't of died that night
Every organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
So the cartel continues.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
R.I.P. doesn't seem like he was an honest guy, but least he did set up some pensions and such for down and out fighters.
I'd say since I've read his son will be taking over that it will be business as usual.
RIP :nopity:
Even though Sulaiman was a crook, he was still somebody's son, husband and father..
RIP
Rest in peace..
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
You're right on all counts. I could never stand Sulaiman for his crookedness and bias toward Mexican fighters. But he was a human being with family. I'm glad he's no longer WBC president, but I'm not glad he's dead.
On the other hand, nothing will change in the WBC. His son will take over and the crookedness and bias will continue for many more years to come.
The WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
Only if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some howQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
Their sanctioning fees are three or four percent of each fighter's purse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some howQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
A private enterprise shouldn't be a sanctioning body or you end up with totally corrupt enterprises like the WBC/IBF/WBA etc. It should be a nonprofit body so that money can't play any part in ranking decisions or anything else.
Agreed .... let at least a month passQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Who the fuck would waste there time with any non-profit? Nobody eats with non-profit. Fuck non-profit. Like I said before the WBC is a business. It needs to make moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingTheir sanctioning fees are three or four percent of each fighter's purse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some howQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
A private enterprise shouldn't be a sanctioning body or you end up with totally corrupt enterprises like the WBC/IBF/WBA etc. It should be a nonprofit body so that money can't play any part in ranking decisions or anything else.
The absolute last thing an actual world boxing sanctioning body needs to make is money. The fact that the current ones exist to make money is why boxing is in the state it's in now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWho the fuck would waste there time with any non-profit? Nobody eats with non-profit. Fuck non-profit. Like I said before the WBC is a business. It needs to make moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingTheir sanctioning fees are three or four percent of each fighter's purse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some howQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
A private enterprise shouldn't be a sanctioning body or you end up with totally corrupt enterprises like the WBC/IBF/WBA etc. It should be a nonprofit body so that money can't play any part in ranking decisions or anything else.
The profits are put back into the organisation, employees are paid, it does work because it will be a credible organisation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe absolute last thing an actual world boxing sanctioning body needs to make is money. The fact that the current ones exist to make money is why boxing is in the state it's in now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWho the fuck would waste there time with any non-profit? Nobody eats with non-profit. Fuck non-profit. Like I said before the WBC is a business. It needs to make moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingTheir sanctioning fees are three or four percent of each fighter's purse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some howQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
A private enterprise shouldn't be a sanctioning body or you end up with totally corrupt enterprises like the WBC/IBF/WBA etc. It should be a nonprofit body so that money can't play any part in ranking decisions or anything else.
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterThe profits are put back into the organisation, employees are paid, it does work because it will be a credible organisation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe absolute last thing an actual world boxing sanctioning body needs to make is money. The fact that the current ones exist to make money is why boxing is in the state it's in now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWho the fuck would waste there time with any non-profit? Nobody eats with non-profit. Fuck non-profit. Like I said before the WBC is a business. It needs to make moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingTheir sanctioning fees are three or four percent of each fighter's purse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some howQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
A private enterprise shouldn't be a sanctioning body or you end up with totally corrupt enterprises like the WBC/IBF/WBA etc. It should be a nonprofit body so that money can't play any part in ranking decisions or anything else.
Arrest The Alphabet Bandits
Boxing's robber-baron governing bodies are ripping off both the fighters and the fans
Pat Putnam
It's hard to believe what boxing's governing bodies, the World Boxing Association, the World Boxing Council and the International Boxing Federation, get away with these days. In most parts of the world it's called extortion. The WBA, WBC and IBF—the Alphabet Bandits, if you will—rake in millions with a scam in which boxers are assessed hefty "sanction fees" for the right to fight for championship belts handed out by the governing bodies.
Only 20 years ago the WBA and the WBC (the IBF didn't exist until 1983) were delighted just to cadge a few free tickets to a bout in exchange for sanctioning it. However, that was before network television—looking to deflect the ire of viewers for broadcasting dreadful mismatches disguised as championship fights—made the WBA and WBC important and, worse, arrogant. The networks said to the fight promoters, "No sanction, no money."
The promoters were suddenly at the mercy of the WBA and WBC. Sanction fees, once little more than service charges to pay for paperwork, skyrocketed. Until recently the WBC was happy to take 3% of the fighters' purses in any bout for a WBC title, with a $150,000 maximum for each boxer—the same rate still assessed by the WBA for a championship bout. (The IBF charges 2%, with the same lofty $150,000 ceiling.) Now the WBC demands 3% with no ceiling.
In the case of the Evander Holyfield-Larry Holmes heavyweight title light, scheduled for June 19, all three organizations will get to collect from both boxers because Holyfield is recognized as the universal champion. Thus the WBC is demanding that Holyfield surrender 3% of his $15 million purse ($450,000), while the WBA and IBF want another $150,000 apiece from him. What's more, all three organizations are demanding $100,000 apiece from Holmes, whose purse is being listed as $3 million. That's a total of $1,150,000 in sanction fees.
Had the Holy field-Mike Tyson fight come off, the combined sanction fees would have been $1,965,000, including $1,356,000 to the WBC alone. And here's the topper: For reasons known only to God and the IRS, the three members of boxing's cartel are supposedly nonprofit organizations, so all this booty is tax-free.
Mama, I'm not a WBC, WBA or IBF official, honest; I'm playing piano in a whorehouse.
Another result of the reliance on these sanctioning bodies was the creation of myriad new weight divisions—so there could be more championship lights and more money for the Alphabet Bandits. This watered down the sport with dozens of mediocre champions. The last time I counted, there were 48 of them in 17 divisions.
But that's not all. Lately the WBA, ever the Machiavellian innovator, has been assessing "special fees." For instance:
In December the WBA stripped Mike McCallum of his middleweight crown because he refused to hand over $115,000 of the $500,000 purse he had received for lighting James Toney. Fifteen thousand was the usual 3% sanction fee. The other $100,000 was tacked on because McCallum had fought Toney, the IBF middleweight champ, instead of the WBA's designated challenger, Steve Collins, whom McCallum had previously defeated.
Two weeks ago, when WBA welterweight champ Meldrick Taylor fought Terry Norris for Norris's WBC super welterweight title, the WBA demanded a $30,000 fee from Taylor even though the bout didn't require the WBA's sanction. If Taylor didn't pay the $30,000, the WBA said, it would strip him of his crown. Taylor, who was already forking over $30,000 of his $1 million purse to the WBC, paid up.
Boxing's robber-baron governing bodies are ripping off - 05.25.92 - SI Vault
This was long before they came up with Super, silver, diamond, interim, regular, junior, asia, europe, americas etc. Mental. :)
That's gotta the dumbest thing I ever read. So you telling me everything must be paid for out of there pockets? They have to crown champions and rank fighters for free? Are you fucking kidding me? If it's that easy why don't you go fucking do it? Go make a championship belt for each divsion and pay for it out your own pocket. Go around the world watching fights and ranking fighters. Pay for it out your own pocket. Sponsor and host events and pay for it all yourself. If you need help, hire some employees. But let them know they working for free cuz you can't make any money out of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe absolute last thing an actual world boxing sanctioning body needs to make is money. The fact that the current ones exist to make money is why boxing is in the state it's in now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWho the fuck would waste there time with any non-profit? Nobody eats with non-profit. Fuck non-profit. Like I said before the WBC is a business. It needs to make moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingTheir sanctioning fees are three or four percent of each fighter's purse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some howQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
A private enterprise shouldn't be a sanctioning body or you end up with totally corrupt enterprises like the WBC/IBF/WBA etc. It should be a nonprofit body so that money can't play any part in ranking decisions or anything else.
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Originally Posted by Fenster
That's a shocking article and pretty old im guessing with the mention of Holyfield and Holmes , I wonder if the percentages have increased and by how much?
It's from the early 90s. Don't think the percentage has changed much but the cap has. There's dozens of examples of fighters throwing the belt because of sanctioning fees when they become bigger than the belt - Lewis, Barrera, Pac, Floyd etc... Malignaggi-Hatton dumped the IBF belt because they wanted around $400,000 of 'em.
The belts are $20 weightlifting belts with a big gay buckle on them and in the case of the prestigious WBC, half a dozen ten cent badges with pictures of guys like Ali and Ray Leonard on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseThat's gotta the dumbest thing I ever read. So you telling me everything must be paid for out of there pockets? They have to crown champions and rank fighters for free? Are you fucking kidding me? If it's that easy why don't you go fucking do it? Go make a championship belt for each divsion and pay for it out your own pocket. Go around the world watching fights and ranking fighters. Pay for it out your own pocket. Sponsor and host events and pay for it all yourself. If you need help, hire some employees. But let them know they working for free cuz you can't make any money out of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe absolute last thing an actual world boxing sanctioning body needs to make is money. The fact that the current ones exist to make money is why boxing is in the state it's in now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseWho the fuck would waste there time with any non-profit? Nobody eats with non-profit. Fuck non-profit. Like I said before the WBC is a business. It needs to make moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingTheir sanctioning fees are three or four percent of each fighter's purse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseOnly if they fight for the WBC title. If not the WBC gets nothing. And it's just the sanction fees. It's not an actual cut from the fighters purse. People dislike the sanction fees. But what are they suppose to do? Let them fight for the title for free? That's unrealistic. The WBC is a ranking organization. But it's also a business. It needs to make money some howQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe WBC take a cut from fighters' purses. I agree that promoters and maybe even managers should pay something towards looking after retired fighters but the WBC makes a living renting $20 weightlifting belts to fighters with zero financial risk. They also take money from promoters to get their guys ranked and for eventual title shots. Sulaiman even used to go to fighters after they'd won and ask them for their trunks, gloves, even wraps which then used to end up on the memorabilia market. Throwing out a few dollars to buy themselves some cheap credibility by helping the occasional fighter doesn't change the nature of what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseEvery organization takes out sanction fees. That's nothing new. Nor is it illegal. And while I feel retired boxers should get more help it's really not the organizations job to help them out. Retired boxers should be looked out by there promotors and managers. The muthafukkas who actually take a cut from a fighters purseQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingThe amount he paid out to help sick boxers was a tiny percentage of his turnover. He took three or four percent of all their WBC title purses and every other boxer who fights for a WBC title. If you took that money and funnelled it through a nonprofit sanctioning body that spent it all on looking after retired boxers then they'd be able to hire ten or thirty times more boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseHe help pay for a lot of Genero Hernandez medical expensives when he got sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
All these sanctioning bodies are just racketeering enterprises. They're all headquartered in Panama or the Dominican Republic where they don't have to produce publicly available audited company accounts. There's a reason for that.
A private enterprise shouldn't be a sanctioning body or you end up with totally corrupt enterprises like the WBC/IBF/WBA etc. It should be a nonprofit body so that money can't play any part in ranking decisions or anything else.
They don't do anything for free. All the sanctioning body-approved judges, referees and the sanctioning guy at ringside who gives the belt to the winner at the end of the fight all need paying and all their expenses, hotels and airfares etc need paying. And they're all paid by the promoters on top of all the sanctioning fees the sanctioning bodies charge. The conventions and events they sponsor are all money-making enterprises too. Conventions are big business in case you didn't know.
You can run one of these organisations by setting up a proper regulatory body that isn't actually allowed to make a profit. Where the people involved in running it don't have a motive to make money, where the motive is to run the most effective and credible organisation possible because that will be the best long-term way to benefit boxing and the fighters who fight the fights.
Every major sport in America has a long history of no regulation and massive corruption in the early days of the sport -- baseball, American football and so on. Boxing is still unregulated. It would be more difficult to regulate than other sports but not impossible. It's managed to avoid any kind of major enforcement by government because boxing has dropped in popularity and isn't worth the effort by politicians so corrupt motherfuckers like the WBC can continue to function unimpeded.
And look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
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Originally Posted by Violent DemiseAnd look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?
If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.
But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?
Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.
You know why that shit happened? Cuz muthafukkas are expected to run shit for free. Which is impossible to do. The fact that you think these organizations should travel the world ranking fighters, hosting events and everything else and pay for it out of there own pockets is insane. Nobody does shit for free. Nobody should have to do shit for free. You can't feed your family off "it's the right thing to do". Fuck that. Give me cash. If not I'm gonna find a way to get someQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseAnd look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?
If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.
But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?
Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.
The promoter of an event pays the judges/officials and all their expenses, not the alphabet. Nodody travels the world to rank fighters, they just answer the phone, from wherever they're sat in the world, and negotiate how much it will cost to push a fighter up/into their rankings.
It's not about them "doing it for free," it's about them pulling off an unbelievable scam, which basically means money for nothing. I find it quite impressive.
Some fighters are starting to shun the sanctioning bodies. Ward dropped his emeritus status
Nobody is asking anybody to do anything without being paid. In a model nonprofit organisation every single employee would be paid a fair salary for the job they're doing. What they would not be allowed to do is run a belt protection racket which is what we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYou know why that shit happened? Cuz muthafukkas are expected to run shit for free. Which is impossible to do. The fact that you think these organizations should travel the world ranking fighters, hosting events and everything else and pay for it out of there own pockets is insane. Nobody does shit for free. Nobody should have to do shit for free. You can't feed your family off "it's the right thing to do". Fuck that. Give me cash. If not I'm gonna find a way to get someQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseAnd look at the muthafukkas running them sports and calling the shots now. They get paid. Like fat rats. Bud Selig, Baseballs Commissioner took home 25 million in 2013. Roger Goodell, Footballs Commissioner 29 million. David Stern the Basketball Commissioner 22 million. Hockeys commissioner Gary Bettman made 9 million. Even Golfs muthafukkin commissioner was able to take 6 million home. But the muthafukka in boxing have to do it for free, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Are you seriously trying to claim that professional boxing is run as well as the NFL? So this year there's going to be silver, diamond, interim, regula, super and emeritus Superbowl champions?
If you turn the NFL over the course of fifty years from semi-pro nickel and dime outfits into a ten billion a year business then you as a regulator can expect to be rewarded for that. There's no problem paying a chief executive a salary commensurate with the job. The NFL chief is taking home less than 0.3% of NFL revenue. You can make a case that CEO pay in general is far too high and I'd agree with you but they're being paid what their employers are prepared to pay.
But that's a publicly declared expense, it's not somebody gouging the market or racketeering. Now let's say over the same fifty year period you've presided over boxing being one of the biggest if not the biggest spport in America to being a niche sport that the general public are largely unaware of. One of your top regulators has been indicted and convicted on thirty teo counts of racketeering and taking bribes (IBF). All other regulators are shielded from similar indictments by having their headquarters offshore but it looks to everyone that they're exactly the same kind of racketeering outfits as the IBF is. How much should the head regulators of professional boxing be paid?
Maybe the boxing sanctioning bodies need total reform, not to mention lots more prison sentences handed out before we start deciding whether any of these guys should ever be able to earn a living from boxing again, never mind setting their salary levels.
And they don't travel the world ranking fighters. When the IBF got hit with all the indictments they made a documentary and they interviewed the guy who was in charge of the rankings. His office was his front room which had a TV, a video and a plastic mountain of VHS tapes. He had a civil suit against the IBF himself because he hadn't been paid and had basically been used as a bagman to pick up the bribes from promoters. The funniest part of the film was him going from saying yeah rating fighters is an art, you have to really know what you're looking at to talking about how he'd taken a hundred thousand from Arum to put somebody in the top ten.
And when they "host events" they're all events to make money or get publicity giving a few dollars to some charity/fighter. They have a big convention every year, normally somewhere like Thailand where they rent an out of season hotel for a week and all the promoters pay a few thousand to fly out for a week of hookers and blow. And a few business deals. But mainly it's a jolly and the sanctioning bodies make money out of these events that they host.
I just googled the documentary and I found this
Former Ratings Chairman Sues IBF, Claims Corruption - Boxing News
This is not the same guy as was in the documentary which I can't find.