Is he gonna call out jermaine taylor next? Fuckin the worst paper titlist ive seen in awhile.
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Is he gonna call out jermaine taylor next? Fuckin the worst paper titlist ive seen in awhile.
Yes he is terrible , the highest Ko rate of any champion , 16 kos in a row , never really looked like losing in his career.
One word - Garbage.
Andy Lee isn't as bad as you are suggesting. He is better then most in the div. no hope against GGG but definitely as good as geale or Sturm.
At the least it will give a comparrison against Chavez Jr;)
By rights he should anhialate Lee if he is what most seem to think he is.
Andy lee isnt bad and I actually I like him but GGG has no business fighting him at this stage of his career.. he's been a titlist for how long but he's yet to face an elite opposition. He's the epitome of a paper champ until he proves otherwise..Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
Maybe Andy Lee is good as Geale, just maybe, but he's certainly not on the level of Sturm..
Sturm would be a decent match. Hes not going to fall over and just come off a very good performance.
The stuff of legend. Truly we are in the age of heroes.
Yeah it's a fucking joke why he wont face anyone good. So many great fighters willing to face him yet he keeps this blatant duck job rolling.
Martinez will earn around 3x more against Cotto than what he would against GGG but that's no excuse for GGG not making these fights. Pure duckigery.
Possibly because the top guys don't want to face him? He has low reward and he really wouldn't get anyone much money if they fight him. You see cotto calling out an injured Martinez. Why not call out GGG? Lara wants Canelo. Why not GGG? GGG can't give them want they want which is money. GGG has barely started getting exposure in the USA wait till he has more and then they have no option but to have to face him. Similar to how Floyd had to fight Canelo because of the demand for the fight and the money it generated. GGG is alot better then Canelo. Have you guys forgtten that GGG called out everyone from 154-175?
Well he is just fighting guys that will agree to fight him?
I'm not sure you've made yourself clear. Are you saying you don't think much of GGG?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
The problem is there is no demand in the MW division. He needs to move to light middle or super middle to force big fights which is a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012
Here is the comparison with Abraham. People are calling for him to move up but his advantages at middleweight wont transfer up with him and he would look mediocre.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeThe problem is there is no demand in the MW division. He needs to move to light middle or super middle to force big fights which is a shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012
Im not criticising his choice of opponents. There isnt a great deal of depth at middle. Just, I can see someone like Sturm will make him look ordinary. Sturm isnt a puncher but it will be his class that would trouble Golovkin.
He appears to be a decent fighter but we'll never know what he's really made of if he keeps fighting these part time rental cops and dishwashers. That's what im saying..Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollinsI'm not sure you've made yourself clear. Are you saying you don't think much of GGG?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
He's good but he's not this killer that people make him out to be.. I could be wrong but that's the impression I get..
It's like with Lucas Mythese.. Everybody and their mama made him out to be the boogeyman just because he knocked out Mike Dallas lol and a weight drained Peterson.. Majority of the fans thought he'd knock out Danny Garcia easily ( real talk ) but I sure didnt see it that way.. I knew he wasn't good enough to beat Danny and i can back it up with the Saddoleague thread..
Anyway I kinda see GGG in the same light.. He's a good fighter but all that hype is unwarranted..
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaHe appears to be a decent fighter but we'll never know what he's really made of if he keeps fighting these part time rental cops and dishwashers. That's what im saying..Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollinsI'm not sure you've made yourself clear. Are you saying you don't think much of GGG?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
He's good but he's not this killer that people make him out to be.. I could be wrong but that's the impression I get..
It's like with Lucas Mythese.. Everybody and their mama made him out to be the boogeyman just because he knocked out Mike Dallas lol and a weight drained Peterson.. Majority of the fans thought he'd knock out Danny Garcia easily ( real talk ) but I sure didnt see it that way.. I knew he wasn't good enough to beat Danny and i can back it up with the Saddoleague thread..
Anyway I kinda see GGG in the same light.. He's a good fighter but all that hype is unwarranted..
I see some parallels with Matthysse as well. Its not like Lucas got schooled and dominated, he lost a close and good match to Garcia.
You are not exactly Nostradamus yourself either (real talk) lol
Honestly, Felix Sturm would be a great test for GGG, but Sturm of all folks should not be hailed as some hero to debunk GGG and his supposed fighting of nobodies. I mean lets look at Sturm's resume. There was a good stretch where he was fighting some truly questionable opposition himself.
Castillejo did stop him after all, so I'd imagine GGG would do the same. Yes, Sturm avenged it, but nonetheless.
Are you putting me on that Boxing God status now, Hulk, like I can never be wrong? lol this high standard you set for me Im flattered but even monkeys fall off trees bruh..Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaHe appears to be a decent fighter but we'll never know what he's really made of if he keeps fighting these part time rental cops and dishwashers. That's what im saying..Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollinsI'm not sure you've made yourself clear. Are you saying you don't think much of GGG?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
He's good but he's not this killer that people make him out to be.. I could be wrong but that's the impression I get..
It's like with Lucas Mythese.. Everybody and their mama made him out to be the boogeyman just because he knocked out Mike Dallas lol and a weight drained Peterson.. Majority of the fans thought he'd knock out Danny Garcia easily ( real talk ) but I sure didnt see it that way.. I knew he wasn't good enough to beat Danny and i can back it up with the Saddoleague thread..
Anyway I kinda see GGG in the same light.. He's a good fighter but all that hype is unwarranted..
I see some parallels with Matthysse as well. Its not like Lucas got schooled and dominated, he lost a close and good match to Garcia.
You are not exactly Nostradamus yourself either (real talk) lol
Honestly, Felix Sturm would be a great test for GGG, but Sturm of all folks should not be hailed as some hero to debunk GGG and his supposed fighting of nobodies. I mean lets look at Sturm's resume. There was a good stretch where he was fighting some truly questionable opposition himself.
Castillejo did stop him after all, so I'd imagine GGG would do the same. Yes, Sturm avenged it, but nonetheless.
All you need to do is look at the Saddoleague comp and you'll realize how I perform at the elite level consistently but more importantly, I might have one of the best record in picking major upsets.. Jhonny Gonzalez > Mares, Garcia>Lucas etc the list is so long I dont even remember... So " real talk " my friend i dont mean to brag but let's not act like Im not one of the brightest Boxing minds on Saddo.. :cool:
Anyway I agree with you and Ross regarding Felix Sturm.. Sturm is more than credible as an opponent for GGG..
His people want him back on hbo so he has to "pick" from network options. Can't see him fighting Sturm unless its on another obscure card stuffed on the side of a Milk Carton to the U.S. They also mentioned Kirkland and I think that would a shame and a bit of a step backwards, but a familiar face to fans and will be flattened like a truck rolling over a speed bump made of Lego logs.
Jesus Christ....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaAre you putting me on that Boxing God status now, Hulk, like I can never be wrong? lol this high standard you set for me Im flattered but even monkeys fall off trees bruh..Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaHe appears to be a decent fighter but we'll never know what he's really made of if he keeps fighting these part time rental cops and dishwashers. That's what im saying..Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollinsI'm not sure you've made yourself clear. Are you saying you don't think much of GGG?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
He's good but he's not this killer that people make him out to be.. I could be wrong but that's the impression I get..
It's like with Lucas Mythese.. Everybody and their mama made him out to be the boogeyman just because he knocked out Mike Dallas lol and a weight drained Peterson.. Majority of the fans thought he'd knock out Danny Garcia easily ( real talk ) but I sure didnt see it that way.. I knew he wasn't good enough to beat Danny and i can back it up with the Saddoleague thread..
Anyway I kinda see GGG in the same light.. He's a good fighter but all that hype is unwarranted..
I see some parallels with Matthysse as well. Its not like Lucas got schooled and dominated, he lost a close and good match to Garcia.
You are not exactly Nostradamus yourself either (real talk) lol
Honestly, Felix Sturm would be a great test for GGG, but Sturm of all folks should not be hailed as some hero to debunk GGG and his supposed fighting of nobodies. I mean lets look at Sturm's resume. There was a good stretch where he was fighting some truly questionable opposition himself.
Castillejo did stop him after all, so I'd imagine GGG would do the same. Yes, Sturm avenged it, but nonetheless.
All you need to do is look at the Saddoleague comp and you'll realize how I perform at the elite level consistently but more importantly, I might have one of the best record in picking major upsets.. Jhonny Gonzalez > Mares, Garcia>Lucas etc the list is so long I dont even remember... So " real talk " my friend i dont mean to brag but let's not act like Im not one of the brightest Boxing minds on Saddo.. :cool:
Anyway I agree with you and Ross regarding Felix Sturm.. Sturm is more than credible as an opponent for GGG..
I'm surprised Sturm is still around and doing as well as he is. He's been a staple in the division for a fuckin decade.
Andre Ward/Gennady Golovkin: Be Fair
this suggest GGG is avoiding ward
Would look like Hopkins v Pavlik and Dirrell v Abraham (up until the late punch).Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
The big difference with asking Ward to move up and asking GGG to move is that Ward has already cleaned out the super middleweight division and GGG hasn't done the same with the middleweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossWould look like Hopkins v Pavlik and Dirrell v Abraham (up until the late punch).Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
With regard to Sturm, Sturm ducked GGG already. He won't face him anytime soon unless he is forced. He avoided him for two years. Just think of this way, GGG is the boogeyman of the division. It's clear. Yet, Sturm has targeted Geale, Barker and now Murray. He wants no piece of GGG. I'll agree that Sturm is a better fight than Lee. Lee doesn't have a chin. GGG will stop him quickly. I want Quillin to leave Golden Boy and make the fight. A win for either guy sets him up as a big name.
I know it's not the same thing but in case you didn't know GGG beat Bute and Dirrell in the amateurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossWould look like Hopkins v Pavlik and Dirrell v Abraham (up until the late punch).Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
The big difference with asking Ward to move up and asking GGG to move is that Ward has already cleaned out the super middleweight division and GGG hasn't done the same with the middleweight.[/QUOTE]
I'd say the big differences are
1)That Ward has taken on top guys thus earning the right to do what he wants
2)Ward is not moving up because he wants to make a huge fight. GGG is not moving up because he doesn't want to make a huge fight.
It blows my mind how boxing fans are significantly harder on the guys that have made big fights than they are on the guys that haven't. It's bass ackwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I'd say the big differences are
1)That Ward has taken on top guys thus earning the right to do what he wants
2)Ward is not moving up because he wants to make a huge fight. GGG is not moving up because he doesn't want to make a huge fight.
It blows my mind how boxing fans are significantly harder on the guys that have made big fights than they are on the guys that haven't. It's bass ackwards.[/QUOTE]I think a lot of it is a basic as bias to styles for some. Ward has done nothing but taken names and punched tickets, he has done his time. The who you beat should still be on level with how you beat them.
** I totally screwed that reply placement up..
I didnt say sturm was less credible for the record. I just said Lee is as good as Sturm. Id actually fancy him because he is a good boxer and Sturm hasnt much power. Sturms been ducking GGG for years, I highly doubt he will make himself available for a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaAre you putting me on that Boxing God status now, Hulk, like I can never be wrong? lol this high standard you set for me Im flattered but even monkeys fall off trees bruh..Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaHe appears to be a decent fighter but we'll never know what he's really made of if he keeps fighting these part time rental cops and dishwashers. That's what im saying..Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollinsI'm not sure you've made yourself clear. Are you saying you don't think much of GGG?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
He's good but he's not this killer that people make him out to be.. I could be wrong but that's the impression I get..
It's like with Lucas Mythese.. Everybody and their mama made him out to be the boogeyman just because he knocked out Mike Dallas lol and a weight drained Peterson.. Majority of the fans thought he'd knock out Danny Garcia easily ( real talk ) but I sure didnt see it that way.. I knew he wasn't good enough to beat Danny and i can back it up with the Saddoleague thread..
Anyway I kinda see GGG in the same light.. He's a good fighter but all that hype is unwarranted..
I see some parallels with Matthysse as well. Its not like Lucas got schooled and dominated, he lost a close and good match to Garcia.
You are not exactly Nostradamus yourself either (real talk) lol
Honestly, Felix Sturm would be a great test for GGG, but Sturm of all folks should not be hailed as some hero to debunk GGG and his supposed fighting of nobodies. I mean lets look at Sturm's resume. There was a good stretch where he was fighting some truly questionable opposition himself.
Castillejo did stop him after all, so I'd imagine GGG would do the same. Yes, Sturm avenged it, but nonetheless.
All you need to do is look at the Saddoleague comp and you'll realize how I perform at the elite level consistently but more importantly, I might have one of the best record in picking major upsets.. Jhonny Gonzalez > Mares, Garcia>Lucas etc the list is so long I dont even remember... So " real talk " my friend i dont mean to brag but let's not act like Im not one of the brightest Boxing minds on Saddo.. :cool:
Anyway I agree with you and Ross regarding Felix Sturm.. Sturm is more than credible as an opponent for GGG..
I think a lot of it is a basic as bias to styles for some. Ward has done nothing but taken names and punched tickets, he has done his time. The who you beat should still be on level with how you beat them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I'd say the big differences are
1)That Ward has taken on top guys thus earning the right to do what he wants
2)Ward is not moving up because he wants to make a huge fight. GGG is not moving up because he doesn't want to make a huge fight.
It blows my mind how boxing fans are significantly harder on the guys that have made big fights than they are on the guys that haven't. It's bass ackwards.
** I totally screwed that reply placement up..[/QUOTE]
The main reason I dont think its fair to ask GGG to move up because hes a relatively small middleweight. I have no doubt he could make light middle. Hes 5'10 and not of particular big frame moving up to a weight where most are 6 foot or more. Ward on the other hand fought at light heavy as an amateur and would not be giving up a big size advantage moving up. If Ward-GGG was to happen it should be at a catchweight but there is 0 chance Ward would accept that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I'd say the big differences are
1)That Ward has taken on top guys thus earning the right to do what he wants
2)Ward is not moving up because he wants to make a huge fight. GGG is not moving up because he doesn't want to make a huge fight.
It blows my mind how boxing fans are significantly harder on the guys that have made big fights than they are on the guys that haven't. It's bass ackwards.[/QUOTE]
You're twisting my words. Ward has big fights with Kovalev/Stevenson/Hopkins/Pascal at light heavyweight. All are bigger fights than Rodriguez or the Pavlik fight he was chasing before it. They are also arguably bigger fights than GGG.
The main difference in our opinion of GGG is that I haven't seen GGG duck any fight at 160. To me, I don't blame someone for not moving up in weight if they can still make weight legally and safely and there are still opponents for them to fight there.
I feel the same way about Ward frankly, but I also think Ward is out of options at 168 and he should thus consider moving up. Would I blame him for not moving up though? No. I just don't think he can demand 7 figure purses for fighting the Rodriguez's of the world (not that there is anything wrong with Rodriguez).
GGG has options at 160. He hasn't cleaned out the division, unlike Ward. I want to see him do that first. He's genuinely attempting it at least. He fought four times last year and is on pace for the same thing this year.
Has GGG avoided anyone at 160?
I get where your head is now but I still don't agree. The notion is he's not taking a big fight because he's cleaning out 160, well then why has he fought so many 154 fighters? Is he cleaning out 160 or 154?
And since when do you clean out a division by fighting guys outside the top 10?
If a Sergio fight was lined up, Quillen, Sturm I'd say do your thing even though I don't think particularly highly of any of them.(I used to think highly of Sergio but I don't know what he has left, I hope he returns to form) But these guys have shown no interest in fighting him.
If HBO continues to get good ratings for GGG vs guys ranked outside the top 10 and Jr.Middles they're smart to keep lining them up. And if GGGs pay keeps increasing he's smart to keep taking these useless fights. But I don't understand boxing fans supporting this false notion he's "cleaning" out middleweight. "Cleaning" implies it's in process. It's talked about but it's not in process. A Geale fight could qualify but a Lee fight does not, a Kirkland fight does not.
I'm glad we're slowly understanding each other. I too understand your points. Adama wasn't in the top ten, but he was a legitimate middleweight that gave Geale a rough night's work and had never been stopped. However, most importantly, the fight wasn't on HBO. He also fought Ishida off American networks. So, two of the fights you complain about were not on HBO in order to keep active. I see the point in that at least for a certain period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Rosado is a 154/160 guy. He gave Quillin problems. He beat J'Leon Love. I'm not saying he's a world beater but he's decent. GGG sliced him up. This was also on HBO After Dark, which doesn't pay as much, or get the same treatment as a regular HBO show.
Proksa, Macklin and Stevens were top ten middleweights when GGG fought them. Frankly, I put Quillin, Geale, Sturm and Murray on the level of or right above these guys. Quillin won't face GGG because he is on Showtime. Murray and Sturm have avoided GGG and are set to face each other.
Martinez won't fight him before he fights Cotto. If he gets by Cotto, he has to fight GGG or he loses face. I also think a fight with Martinez is worth waiting for because Martinez holds the lineal middleweight belt and is on everyone's list of current best fighters. It would be a good fight for GGG's career.
So, this is how I see things playing out. GGG faces Lee or Geale (who are in the top ten or right outside it) in April and the other one at the end of the summer. He then tries to make a fight with Martinez at the end of the year. If by the end of 2014, we have seen no improvement in challenges, I'm with you, he should move up.
Now also understand that I don't rank GGG in my top ten p4p or anything like that. It's premature to do so when he hasn't faced too much top competition (I felt the same about Broner and Canelo).
Ward is number two on most people's list. He deserves more scrutiny than someone unranked. He needs to find a capable dance partner sooner than later, which probably means he needs to move up.
Where we part ways is Ward deserves more scrutiny, Ward wants the fight! How does the guy that wants the fight get scrutiny and the guy that doesn't want the fight get a pass?
We differ on our opinion of the middleweights, we generally agree on the placement but I do not consider Proska quality and he went DOWN in weight after proved he wasn't. I do not consider Rosado quality and all his losses prove that, I do not consider Stephens quality etcetera. We are talking about a champion of 12 title fights he should be fighting championship level not fringe contender after fringe contender.
I was a fan and want to be again but he's been talking about what he WILL do for a long time. In your best case scenario you HOPE he fights Sergio at the end of the year. I'm tired of hoping. There's a good fighter saying let's do it, do it. If Ward is unfair Froch said he wanted the fight as well. At least see what the offer before you decline.
Ward wants the fight against a guy COMING UP in weight and Ward is consensus number two on most people's p4p lists. GGG is unranked. Ward himself could go up in weight and get fights as big as GGG with Hopkins, Kovalev, Pascal or Stevenson. Wins over any of those light heavyweights does more for Ward than against a middleweight coming up and he'll make as much money. Thus, he deserves scrutiny. GGG gets a pass for now because he would have to go up in weight before he has cleaned out the division. Ward also gets a pass for not facing Stevenson or Kovalev because he would be going up in weight to do it, although Ward has cleaned out the division. Why should he wait around at 168 when there is no one else to face?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Also, how is his hype undeserved? Perhaps you're overestimating the amount of hype he's getting. He's not considered the second coming. He's no Broner or Canelo 2013. Ring Magazine had Broner ranked in their top 6 p4p before Maidana clarified things. Canelo is still in their top ten. That's also the definition of hype. GGG is just the second best middleweight in the world. He's earned that level of hype or close to it in my opinion.
Just to clarify, you agree that he hasn't ducked anyone at 160, right? So, the only competition you think he should be criticized for is at 168?
I see both sides here but I dont see why GGG should be criticised for not moving up. He is fighting again in April. He is one of the most active champs and while his competition is not high profile the way they have performed against other champions should show how well he did against them. Mack leading against Martinez, and in very close fight with Sturm, Rosado did very well against Quillin. I feel bad for him because even if he does get a fight agaisnt these guys and beats them easily hell get criticised for fighting these guys instead of moving up.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWard wants the fight against a guy COMING UP in weight and Ward is consensus number two on most people's p4p lists. GGG is unranked. Ward himself could go up in weight and get fights as big as GGG with Hopkins, Kovalev, Pascal or Stevenson. Wins over any of those light heavyweights does more for Ward than against a middleweight coming up and he'll make as much money. Thus, he deserves scrutiny. GGG gets a pass for now because he would have to go up in weight before he has cleaned out the division. Ward also gets a pass for not facing Stevenson or Kovalev because he would be going up in weight to do it, although Ward has cleaned out the division. Why should he wait around at 168 when there is no one else to face?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Also, how is his hype undeserved? Perhaps you're overestimating the amount of hype he's getting. He's not considered the second coming. He's no Broner or Canelo 2013. Ring Magazine had Broner ranked in their top 6 p4p before Maidana clarified things. Canelo is still in their top ten. That's also the definition of hype. GGG is just the second best middleweight in the world. He's earned that level of hype or close to it in my opinion.
Just to clarify, you agree that he hasn't ducked anyone at 160, right? So, the only competition you think he should be criticized for is at 168?
Ward wants the fight against a guy COMING UP in weight and Ward is consensus number two on most people's p4p lists. GGG is unranked. Ward himself could go up in weight and get fights as big as GGG with Hopkins, Kovalev, Pascal or Stevenson. Wins over any of those light heavyweights does more for Ward than against a middleweight coming up and he'll make as much money. Thus, he deserves scrutiny. GGG gets a pass for now because he would have to go up in weight before he has cleaned out the division. Ward also gets a pass for not facing Stevenson or Kovalev because he would be going up in weight to do it, although Ward has cleaned out the division. Why should he wait around at 168 when there is no one else to face?
Also, how is his hype undeserved? Perhaps you're overestimating the amount of hype he's getting. He's not considered the second coming. He's no Broner or Canelo 2013. Ring Magazine had Broner ranked in their top 6 p4p before Maidana clarified things. Canelo is still in their top ten. That's also the definition of hype. GGG is just the second best middleweight in the world. He's earned that level of hype or close to it in my opinion.
Just to clarify, you agree that he hasn't ducked anyone at 160, right? So, the only competition you think he should be criticized for is at 168?[/QUOTE]
I'm rather sure I never said anything about hype. I don't think GGG has ever avoided anyone at 160. But I don't see any evidence he is cleaning out 160. Proska was at 154 last time I checked, Rosado moved up for big fights and back down to 154. Ishida came from 154. I can't recall the busy african with the tremendous back story but he came from 154.
Let me be perfectly clear. I'm good with a Geale fight, I'm not good with Kirkland because yet again 154. I'm not good with Andy Lee because Julio Cesar Chavez destroyed him and Brian Vera KOed him as well, yhat tells you all you need to know. If it's Geale that IME is his 2nd fight towards cleaning out the division to go with Macklin. That's 2 fights in the 3 years since I said I thought he was the best MW in the world. He's fighting a lot. There should be more than 2 and one isn't even signed. I fully expect him to take on Lee.
If he picks Geale, good. If not his excuse of cleaning out the division is dead and buried from my perspective.
Could that possibly be through no fault of his own? Is it fair to give a guy grief for not attempting to clean out the division when the fights are just difficult to be made, for whatever reason? He's calling out Sergio after every fight. It isn't like he's not trying to make the fights at 160 - a lot of the top 10 guys at that weight just don't want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Personally, I don't see why he doesn't drop down to 154 if he can. There are a lot of higher profile fights - and challenging ones - there. Why move up for the one big fight with Ward, who's probably headed for 175 anyway?
Will it be any easier making fights at 154? I dont know if his power holds at 168. If it doesnt will he outbox Ward or Groves? Or be able to keep guys like Bika or Froch off him for 12 rounds? I doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollinsCould that possibly be through no fault of his own? Is it fair to give a guy grief for not attempting to clean out the division when the fights are just difficult to be made, for whatever reason? He's calling out Sergio after every fight. It isn't like he's not trying to make the fights at 160 - a lot of the top 10 guys at that weight just don't want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Personally, I don't see why he doesn't drop down to 154 if he can. There are a lot of higher profile fights - and challenging ones - there. Why move up for the one big fight with Ward, who's probably headed for 175 anyway?
Here's why its fair to criticize Golovkin for the Ward fight. You can't be credited for calling out everyone from 154 to 175 and then when Ward calls you on it you all of sudden want to clean out 160 first. In addition Golovkin's team just put out a statement claiming he is a star and that they won't negotiate unless Ward concedes. That is 2 quick clear cut ways they have already said no to fight. Ward wasn't calling anyone out but as everyone should know by now you're not going to punk him by making your guy seem like this boogeyman that nobody from 154 to 175 wants to fight. Man, I was a bigger Golovkin fan but his team is just a turn off and its only falling on GGG. Its not even GGG making these claims. How can you call out everybody from 154 to 175 but you never leave 160, every 154er had to come to him. And when a 168er wants you you then want to clean out 160 first? His team needs to stop talking and trying to create this myth that everybody is afraid of the guy when in reality it is a few guys who aren't even worth bragging about. I like GGG a lot and he is good for boxing and I think he is the real deal but no top name has ducked him, he is not the boogeyman, and he is not willing to fight anyone from 154 to 175. Having said that I think the only fight that matters at 160 is GGG/Martinez.
Could that possibly be through no fault of his own? Is it fair to give a guy grief for not attempting to clean out the division when the fights are just difficult to be made, for whatever reason? He's calling out Sergio after every fight. It isn't like he's not trying to make the fights at 160 - a lot of the top 10 guys at that weight just don't want it.
Personally, I don't see why he doesn't drop down to 154 if he can. There are a lot of higher profile fights - and challenging ones - there. Why move up for the one big fight with Ward, who's probably headed for 175 anyway?[/QUOTE]
It very well could be no fault of his own. The thing is I don't care about fault, I care about big fights. This guy has had NONE. I think he's good and have for years and I want him to prove it. I don't buy into fear, these guys are fighters they're tough.
He's fought plenty of 154 fighters, if he wants to continue that's fine but go to 154.
If he wants big fights at 160 but can't get them there's no point in staying there.
My problem isn't with GGG it's with the way fans back him. He can fight a bunch of 154 fighters at 160 but it's wrong for Ward to fight 1 160 fighter at 168? Why the double standard?
My main reason for wanting Ward/GGG is I think it's a great fight. I see it as the best fight between 154-168. If Ward goes up to 175 we never see it. And if Ward gets the idea he isn't going to get the fight he will move up.
I love a Kovalev/Ward fight or Stevenson/Ward fight. I just don't want to miss a GGG/Ward fight.
I don't think Sergio ever fights GGG. I think he's ready for retirement. We'll see, but as I see it I think Ward vs 175 is being held up by the hopes of Ward/GGG and Ward/GGG is being held up by hopes of GGG/Martinez and since I don't expect it to happen it's all for nothing.
It looks like the whole damn sport has bought into the Floyd/Manny sales model of building fighters on the hopes of a fight rather than building fighters on fights.
I guess he is waiting for a decent payday at middle before going anywhere. Everyone reckons he will easily beat Sturm, Quillin or Martinez and all would give him a decent payday. A fight against Ward probably wouldnt give him that big a payday and would as such be too big a risk?Quote:
Originally Posted by jehoshaphat
I agree with what GGG is doing. Clean out your division. But I disagree with what his team is doing. Making everyone from 154 to 175 seem less credible. If you're going for cleaning out your division then rescind that 154 to 175 tough tony talk. It only pertains to 160.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeI guess he is waiting for a decent payday at middle before going anywhere. Everyone reckons he will easily beat Sturm, Quillin or Martinez and all would give him a decent payday. A fight against Ward probably wouldnt give him that big a payday and would as such be too big a risk?Quote:
Originally Posted by jehoshaphat