What comes to mind for me is jabbing out. It's a great way to finish an exchange and escape clean after an exchange but I don't see it often. Nacho seems to teach it and a younger Hatton used it. But I don't seem to see it often.
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What comes to mind for me is jabbing out. It's a great way to finish an exchange and escape clean after an exchange but I don't see it often. Nacho seems to teach it and a younger Hatton used it. But I don't seem to see it often.
Double and triple jabbing, particularly amongst pressure fighters and swarmers.
Just because you're not a slickster, doesn't mean you have to lead with your head and come in with a power punch. Jake Lamotta really had a lot of success doing this against SRR, he'd bore in by flicking the double/triple jab and then dig to the body or the head, often throwing the left hook off of the last jab.
I agree 100% with jabbing out, too. It's always beautiful to see a guy land a good combo on the inside and then jab as he's stepping out. It usually lands because at that point the opponent thinks the attack is over and the hands are just coming down.
The jab is the best weapon and it won the fight for Mattysse because he kept on using inside. Excellent performance from him. Remember Israel Vasquez had a great jab and got him out of trouble when hurt a number of times. McCallum had a brilliant jab too.
I also like fighters who finish combinations with a left hook. It is a safe way to finish a combination and Terry Noriss used it often.
That's funny I was thinking about the left hook as I read your post. How most people have shortened the jab, straight right, left hook combination to exclude the left hook. From a safety perspective I understand that but both should be employed at the proper times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I was never coached to use the jab, straight, left hook. Do you escape left generally, turn and reset?
Yes, all the great trainers insisted on it for that reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYes, all the great trainers insisted on it for that reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
That was one of the first real combinations other than a one-two that I was taught. And forced to practice it regularly. But that was 25 years ago.
Right on about the jab in general. Seems like a lot of it today is flick jab, throw away jabs to blind but you don't see a lot of stabbing to the boby, hard double jabbing to offset a guy. As simplistic as it sounds..basic combination punching and we need less of this trap boxing..setting up for the big counters prematurely. Fire before the smoke even churns.
I was told a jab can be hard, fast, soft, range finder, stay busy, type action. It is the first thing a tired fighters forgets.
Another thing regarding the jab you don't see much is changing up the speed to avoid getting timed. Being Canadian I am forced by law to watch hockey. I remember reading an article by an opponent of Wayne Gretzky saying that he would seem to be skating at a certain pace and as soon as you think you have him timed for a check or whatever he suddenly shifts gears one way or another before you even get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Floyd times the jab with a fast right hand over the top perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by frasdAnother thing regarding the jab you don't see much is changing up the speed to avoid getting timed. Being Canadian I am forced by law to watch hockey. I remember reading an article by an opponent of Wayne Gretzky saying that he would seem to be skating at a certain pace and as soon as you think you have him timed for a check or whatever he suddenly shifts gears one way or another before you even get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The bob & weave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
It's a lost art that is sorely missing...especially at heavyweight.
If that style were still being used we would not be stuck with those dead ass lumbering heavyweights.
Alex Lepai did not have basis head movement against Wlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by cycloneThe bob & weave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
It's a lost art that is sorely missing...especially at heavyweight.
If that style were still being used we would not be stuck with those dead ass lumbering heavyweights.
None of them have basic head movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAlex Lepai did not have basis head movement against Wlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by cycloneThe bob & weave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
It's a lost art that is sorely missing...especially at heavyweight.
If that style were still being used we would not be stuck with those dead ass lumbering heavyweights.
Bob and Weaving is too gruelling for today's fighters to master.
Too bad because it works best against guys that pull straight back like Vlad...Vitali...and Lewis.
....yup, it's oh so simple to beat those guys :rolleyes:
"Just bob & weave"
Yeah don't worry about reach, timing, the other fighter closing you down and tying you up, just "bob & weave" it's too simple
Leapai didn't move his head, but even if he did his hands were way too slow. Guys have attempted to bob & weave vs all those big heavyweights and more often than not it doesn't work because those big heavyweights are also smart, they know their weaknesses and they cover them up strategically.
Yeah, we always did the combination on the mits but it was never really part of our match plan. I've always been tall for my class so our approach was jab heavy, one two, throwaway hooks and straight rights. Could have been because my left hook sucked too.Quote:
Originally Posted by frasdQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterYes, all the great trainers insisted on it for that reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
That was one of the first real combinations other than a one-two that I was taught. And forced to practice it regularly. But that was 25 years ago.
A lot of athletes in other sports do that and for sure it is a good technique. Wrestlers in particular.Quote:
Originally Posted by frasd
There's a guy in the UFC who's a Cuban Olympic wrestler and freak athlete. Incredible explosiveness. He changes speed so much and will lull guys in and once they think he's a certain speed, he explodes and catches guys with haymakers.
Circling out. Positioning used to be import for offense and defense. Everyone wants to stand flatfooted in front of someone now and swing away, only moving at the waist for defense.
Parrying - so many fighters now lead with their face, or go into a shell. Parrying use to be a great way to offset your opponents offense and have him out of position to defend the counter.
The uppercut is slowly slipping out of use too by many fighters because they feel it exposes them and they dont get a lot of power on it because many fighters square up now and dont have their feet set right to step into it or turn at the waist to get full power on it. Its become an arm punch for a lot of pitty pat fighters.
Damn, good thread good responses. I remember an interview with Foreman when he said he credited his resurgence with his jab. He said he had deep regret about ignoring the jab during his early years. At the time he said he felt the jab was beginning a lost art. I think combinations have also taken a back seat theses days. It seems a lot of fighters are content hitting and quitting. Floyd's jab is phenomenal and Mannys combos are amazing and light years ahead of the competition. I do notice a bit of a resurgence on these things on the Shobox up and comers. Perhaps we are heading towards a renaissance. As far as the HW decision goes, it really seems to be full of holes with a lot of fighters. Probably why people have lost interest in it
Body shots, left hook to the body like Chavez and Hatton use to do.
Infighting, uppercuts, and jabs to the body... floyd keeps niggas in check with jabs to the body but a lot of guys dont use it.
Good pick Finito, uppercuts, catch opponents off guard, powerful puch don't see it a lot. The Ghost was effective with it but it looks like by the time he fights again he will be in the senior circutQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Some of these fighters after fighting Floyd and Manny seem to get spoilt and lazy and think they should get big money for turning up and losing.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusGood pick Finito, uppercuts, catch opponents off guard, powerful puch don't see it a lot. The Ghost was effective with it but it looks like by the time he fights again he will be in the senior circutQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
The KostyaTszyu range finder.
[QUOTE=frasd;1244316]Another thing regarding the jab you don't see much is changing up the speed to avoid getting timed. Being Canadian I am forced by law to watch hockey. I remember reading an article by an opponent of Wayne Gretzky saying that he would seem to be skating at a certain pace and as soon as you think you have him timed for a check or whatever he suddenly shifts gears one way or another before you even get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
[/QUOTE
Hey man, I love hockey and Gretz used to do that quite often.
[QUOTE=DannyV297;1244647]Guy was incredible. Like trying to body check a piece of rope.Quote:
Originally Posted by frasdAnother thing regarding the jab you don't see much is changing up the speed to avoid getting timed. Being Canadian I am forced by law to watch hockey. I remember reading an article by an opponent of Wayne Gretzky saying that he would seem to be skating at a certain pace and as soon as you think you have him timed for a check or whatever he suddenly shifts gears one way or another before you even get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
[/QUOTE
Hey man, I love hockey and Gretz used to do that quite often.
Great suggestions in this thread.
Feinting is a lost art. Mike McCallum was something else.
More of a concept but Switching stances... I really like the idea of changing lanes. Not this short sighted idea of keeping your opponent guessing but working on your opponents weaknesses where applicable. Won't work on a whim but there are plenty of scenarios where simply changing stances would be mostly beneficial.
Its the same principle as keeping fighter on the backfoot, or making then chase you. That's just the x axis.
If you can master the y axis then you're going to be at an advantage.
Some fighters just confuse themselves switch hitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Its because they do it for all the wrong reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSome fighters just confuse themselves switch hitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Anyone who switches well out of range is just trying to fight the other way around to see if there are any gains for or against, or to put their opponent off their game or rhythm after losing ground themselves.You'd have to be a great ambidextrous fighter with deep understanding to do that at will and gain each time.
If you switch in range without them first reacting you are going to leave one hell of a gap up the middle at one point in time mid switch and you are going to be square to them and can toppled backwards easily if they are sharp or if you try it twice. If they do a rare flying or leaping hook you are going to get caught square and probably down for a count you want to be able to cover that gap by range or control of them.
If you switch feet and duck out of a situation where they are already attacking and moving in you can go from inside their arms to outside their lead arm while attacking over it with your new lead arm then under it with your rear as you close them up.that way is safe cause you are switching out away from their rear arm and dealing with their lead arm continually.
Switching out from being trapped on the ropes is an old art too.Or pull them in toward you(so they react by pulling away) then you go with them,or the reverse where you push on them bodily they lean into you in reaction then you switch places with them using their momentum or cover up and slide your lead leg backwards crouch sit on the middle rope to give yourself room and switch feet and duck out under his lead arm and rip one up the inside as you are leaving.
Checking an arm with a raised elbow after landing a shot with the same arm gets used a bit more these days but not enough.
Blimey Andre, I'm stunned... So roughly what generation of fighters are we talking about here?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreIts because they do it for all the wrong reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSome fighters just confuse themselves switch hitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Anyone who switches well out of range is just trying to fight the other way around to see if there are any gains for or against, or to put their opponent off their game or rhythm after losing ground themselves.You'd have to be a great ambidextrous fighter with deep understanding to do that at will and gain each time.
If you switch in range without them first reacting you are going to leave one hell of a gap up the middle at one point in time mid switch and you are going to be square to them and can toppled backwards easily if they are sharp or if you try it twice. If they do a rare flying or leaping hook you are going to get caught square and probably down for a count you want to be able to cover that gap by range or control of them.
If you switch feet and duck out of a situation where they are already attacking and moving in you can go from inside their arms to outside their lead arm while attacking over it with your new lead arm then under it with your rear as you close them up.that way is safe cause you are switching out away from their rear arm and dealing with their lead arm continually.
Switching out from being trapped on the ropes is an old art too.Or pull them in toward you(so they react by pulling away) then you go with them,or the reverse where you push on them bodily they lean into you in reaction then you switch places with them using their momentum or cover up and slide your lead leg backwards crouch sit on the middle rope to give yourself room and switch feet and duck out under his lead arm and rip one up the inside as you are leaving.
Max Power generation. They are idiots.