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Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
I can't recall. I'm sure that there have been champions from Europe that have become big boxing stars in the United States though. I thought about it because I watched Steve Kim's interview of Larry Merchant and Larry thought that it would be impossible for GGG to break through to stardom because he's European and a European fighter has never broken through to American audiences on the top level before.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I can't recall. I'm sure that there have been champions from Europe that have become big boxing stars in the United States though. I thought about it because I watched Steve Kim's interview of Larry Merchant and Larry thought that it would be impossible for GGG to break through to stardom because he's European and a European fighter has never broken through to American audiences on the top level before.
Nigel Benn? Joe Calzaghe? Ricky Hatton?
Naseem Hamed as much of a dick head as he was surely he must be up there?
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Lennox Lewis?
The Klitschkos?
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
The problem with most Americans is that their world is only America. Americans geography is poor in the majority.
Real fans of boxing can appreciate good boxers no matter where they are from.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
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Originally Posted by
ross
The Klitschkos?
Never been accepted by many in the US media or by many American boxing fans.
Most Americans generally only like African-American boxers. There are a few cases where they will accept a boxer from another country as long as he's not white.
The Klitschkos, Hatton, Calzaghe, Dariusz have generally been ridiculed and discredited by American fans and media people.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Naseem Hamed deffinitly was. He was big miney back then and sold tickets.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Americans never warmed up to the K-Bros. While respected tremendously, Calzaghe was never a star here. His fight against RJJ and Bhop did fine business, but not BIG business. Same with Froch. Well-liked but not a star. Hatton and Hamed were received pretty well for a short period of time.
I just wonder whether guys like GGG and Kovalev, were they to continue to win, would really be marketable in the United States.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
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Originally Posted by
Freedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
The Klitschkos?
Never been accepted by many in the US media or by many American boxing fans.
Most Americans generally only like African-American boxers. There are a few cases where they will accept a boxer from another country as long as he's not white.
The Klitschkos, Hatton, Calzaghe, Dariusz have generally been ridiculed and discredited by American fans and media people.
That's over-simplifying it.
Americans from PA loved Kelly Pavlik, in New York they loved Tito Trinidad, and in LA they loved Oscar De La Hoya. They weren't African American.
It might be a style thing. American might like the style of boxing that developed in the ghettos of New York in the 1920s and moved to the ghettos of Philly and Detroit in the 1970s.
I'm just thinking if Kovalev knocks out Hopkins and GGG stops Kid Chocolate, could they even become big hits in the U.S.?
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I just wonder whether guys like GGG and Kovalev, were they to continue to win, would really be marketable in the United States.
There will be some who appreciate them, but there will be other fans (and boxing writers and commentators such as Satterfield, Atlas, Farhood, Raskin and Iole) who will never accept them. Golovkin being only half-white will be better accepted than Kovalev.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I just wonder whether guys like GGG and Kovalev, were they to continue to win, would really be marketable in the United States.
There will be some who appreciate them, but there will be other fans (and boxing writers and commentators such as Satterfield, Atlas, Farhood, Raskin and Iole) who will never accept them. Golovkin being only half-white will be better accepted than Kovalev.
F--k Farhood, Atlas, Iole, etc. These guys are already accepted in the US. GGG is often referred to as the euro-Pacquiao. GGG is the future of boxing. If Kovalev beats Hopkins (which I believe he will do), he too will become a monster star in the US. GGG is very close to PVV status. And who gives a shit what Satterfield or Raskin think.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
GGG just needs to be promoted correctly and he can become a major star. Foreign fighters can become major stars if they are promoted correctly and matched right. Take Roberto Duran for example, and most recently Manny Pacquiao. Say what you want about guys like Don King and Bob Arum, but they really know how to promote fights and their fighters.
Naseem Hamed was also pretty big when he came to America. I remember him appearing on Jay Leno a few times, especially after his fight with Kevin Kelly at MSG.
Of course, it would be much easier for a boxer to transcend to stardom in the US if most of the compelling boxing matches were on free network tv and not on premium cable channels like Showtime and HBO, which imo has terribly hurt the sport in the US, but that's another whole topic altogether.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
To stardom? Depends what your definition of that is. I can't think of any that have become superstars at the level of mayweather, Pac, de la hoya, rjj etc. There have definitely been Europeans that have reached pretty high levels of stardom here in the US but not superstardom that I can think of. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I just wonder whether guys like GGG and Kovalev, were they to continue to win, would really be marketable in the United States.
There will be some who appreciate them, but there will be other fans (and boxing writers and commentators such as Satterfield, Atlas, Farhood, Raskin and Iole) who will never accept them.
Golovkin being only half-white will be better accepted than Kovalev.
I would like to understand your basis for this statement. It sounds very silly. I don't think the race of the fighter matters to american fans. There is no doubt a favoritism toward American fighters though on US networks, which makes some sense, because it is, American network TV. Steve Bunce is pro-Brit too.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
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Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
To stardom? Depends what your definition of that is. I can't think of any that have become superstars at the level of mayweather, Pac, de la hoya, rjj etc. There have definitely been Europeans that have reached pretty high levels of stardom here in the US but not superstardom that I can think of. Maybe I'm wrong though.
What (other) Americans do you have that have reached the level of "superstardom" of Mayweather and De La Hoya?
;D
Jones was never that big. In fact Mayweather wasn't always that big either. His first Pay per view wasn't until Gatti and they needed Gattis name to sell that!
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
To be honest does it really mater, Calzaghe was a great fighter, you fight were you want
if you don't like to travel outside your Country so what.!!!
Remember the Klits make big money in Europe, they don't need America,! to be honest in
America it's like a circus, you have to sell and hype yourself up.
In Europe fighters are making good money, Hopkins would not dream of fighting in Europe,
I mean he may not get one of his loved up referee, to help him out.
Remember your a star in your own Country, to most that's all that counts, remember home
town decisions happen here and in America.
America at one time ruled pro boxing, but not so much now, things change the out look
change, Look at Froch V Groves fight, how many people attended that fight, would you get
that in the states theses days.!!
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Lennox Lewis. As Ross said.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
What Americans can draw as big a crowd as Calzaghe, Hatton and Froch?
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
The one who eventually became the most loved and accepted as a star everywhere, was probably Kostya and thats amazing when you think of the Russian US rivalry and how hard headed some old people were over it as he headed into the pro circuit ,that proved boxing stood alone on such things.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I can't recall. I'm sure that there have been champions from Europe that have become big boxing stars in the United States though. I thought about it because I watched Steve Kim's interview of Larry Merchant and Larry thought that it would be impossible for GGG to break through to stardom because he's European and a European fighter has never broken through to American audiences on the top level before.
Lennox Lewis - born and bred in East London, England, Europe :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
The Klitschkos?
Never been accepted by many in the US media or by many American boxing fans.
Most Americans generally only like African-American boxers. There are a few cases where they will accept a boxer from another country as long as he's not white.
The Klitschkos, Hatton, Calzaghe, Dariusz have generally been ridiculed and discredited by American fans and media people.
That is a crock of shit, sir! I don't like the way Wlad or Calzaghe fights but, but I certainly appreciate what they accomplished. I don't like the way Hopkins or Ward fight, but I appreciate what they have accomplished.
The one fighter I despise is an African-American, but I still appreciate what he did in the ring. One of my strongest desires is to live longer than he does so I can piss on his grave.
Martinez was big in the US, as was Hatton. GGG could be very big if he keeps winning, and the sky's the limit for Kovalev if he gets past Hopkins.
The American boxing media criticize and point out, what they consider problems, with all fighters; weak records, weak fundamentals, weak chins, weak punching power, and lack of amateur experience. I usually appreciate the information.
Anyway, I think you are very constipated. Magnesium citrate will help, read the instructions carefully.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
I guess the consensus is Lennox Lewis, which means that if GGG became a huge star, he would be the first non-heavyweight to do so that we can come up with.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
The only European champion to make it big Lloyd Honeyghan.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
To stardom? Depends what your definition of that is. I can't think of any that have become superstars at the level of mayweather, Pac, de la hoya, rjj etc. There have definitely been Europeans that have reached pretty high levels of stardom here in the US but not superstardom that I can think of. Maybe I'm wrong though.
What (other) Americans do you have that have reached the level of "superstardom" of Mayweather and De La Hoya?
;D
Jones was never that big. In fact Mayweather wasn't always that big either. His first Pay per view wasn't until Gatti and they needed Gattis name to sell that!
I agree which is kind of my point. No European has gotten to that level but most fighters haven't either.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Most European fighters are the shits, the best come from North America. That's what's up.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
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Originally Posted by
ross
What Americans can draw as big a crowd as Calzaghe, Hatton and Froch?
Even a log of shit will draw flies.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Most European fighters are the shits, the best come from North America. That's what's up.
Feeling a little constipated, aren't you!
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Most European fighters are the shits, the best come from North America. That's what's up.
Feeling a little constipated, aren't you!
Unlike Europe, which has been churning out tons of shit forever.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
What Americans can draw as big a crowd as Calzaghe, Hatton and Froch?
I could give you a list as long as my arm, but that's not what this thread is supposed to be about, right?
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Only a few fighters ever achieve star status and by that you could define as having mainstream mass appeal and PPV sales, even Americans. Which European fighters have achieved that over in the states Naz, Hatton and maybe Joe Calzhage. They are few and far between.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
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Originally Posted by
Master
Which European fighters have achieved that over in the states Naz, Hatton and maybe Joe Calzhage.
They never had mainstream appeal in the States.
Naz was on the brink but got whipped by MAB and put on 100 pounds.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Which European fighters have achieved that over in the states Naz, Hatton and maybe Joe Calzhage.
They never had mainstream appeal in the States.
Naz was on the brink but got whipped by MAB and put on 100 pounds.
You really don't like Britain hey? Major chip on your shoulder boy.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Which European fighters have achieved that over in the states Naz, Hatton and maybe Joe Calzhage.
They never had mainstream appeal in the States.
Naz was on the brink but got whipped by MAB and put on 100 pounds.
You really don't like Britain hey? Major chip on your shoulder boy.
I like Britain just fine - my grandmother was born in Hull. But as far as producing quality, world class, ATG fighters... you lot are lacking. That's what's up.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Which European fighters have achieved that over in the states Naz, Hatton and maybe Joe Calzhage.
They never had mainstream appeal in the States.
Naz was on the brink but got whipped by MAB and put on 100 pounds.
You really don't like Britain hey? Major chip on your shoulder boy.
I like Britain just fine - my grandmother was born in Hull. But as far as producing quality, world class, ATG fighters... you lot are lacking. That's what's up.
Canada though?
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Which European fighters have achieved that over in the states Naz, Hatton and maybe Joe Calzhage.
They never had mainstream appeal in the States.
Naz was on the brink but got whipped by MAB and put on 100 pounds.
You really don't like Britain hey? Major chip on your shoulder boy.
I like Britain just fine - my grandmother was born in Hull. But as far as producing quality, world class, ATG fighters... you lot are lacking. That's what's up.
Canada though?
Well hell, I never claimed Canada was a hot bed of boxing talent either (although the fact remains that the greatest "British fighter" of all time learned to box in Canada, but that's a whole other issue).
Difference is, Canada generally doesn't care about boxing. We like hockey.
The Brits LOVE boxing, yet they produce so few real quality fighters.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Which European fighters have achieved that over in the states Naz, Hatton and maybe Joe Calzhage.
They never had mainstream appeal in the States.
Naz was on the brink but got whipped by MAB and put on 100 pounds.
You really don't like Britain hey? Major chip on your shoulder boy.
I like Britain just fine - my grandmother was born in Hull. But as far as producing quality, world class, ATG fighters... you lot are lacking. That's what's up.
Canada though?
Well hell, I never claimed Canada was a hot bed of boxing talent either (although the fact remains that the greatest "British fighter" of all time learned to box in Canada, but that's a whole other issue).
Difference is, Canada generally doesn't care about boxing. We like hockey.
The Brits LOVE boxing, yet they produce so few real quality fighters.
Actually, not that this gives me any pleasure, but it's probably about the 7th most popular sport in Britain. Sure, some fights really take off and the general public get into it, but that's only every couple of years.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Yeah boxing is NOT a popular sport in this country
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
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Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Yeah boxing is NOT a popular sport in this country
They had over 80,000 Brits packing Wembley for Froch/Groves, didn't they?
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Yeh Lewis for sure. Its weird. Eubanks make his pro debut in the States, wins another 5,6 here and never came back. His rival Benn came over after Watson loss to rebuild by destroying a couple of 'names' on network tv and then leaves to not come back. Some Americans become world travelers to build a name. Winky literally fought in his backyard early but once he left the U.S started to blow up. The exposure and ease with which we are able to follow or learn fighters now with a key stroke is immeasurable.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
Yeah boxing is NOT a popular sport in this country
They had over 80,000 Brits packing Wembley for Froch/Groves, didn't they?
Yep.
We do have great turnouts for lots of sports.
But unfortunately it is about 7th.
Have a look at bbc.co.uk/sport
Notice how 8 sports have their own tab. Then there is 'other' sports. Boxing is under 'other'.
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Re: Has a European Champion Ever Transcended to Stardom in the United States?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Which European fighters have achieved that over in the states Naz, Hatton and maybe Joe Calzhage.
They never had mainstream appeal in the States.
Naz was on the brink but got whipped by MAB and put on 100 pounds.
Naz had a six-fight $12 million deal with HBO, his American debut with Kevin Kelley, packing out Madison Square Garden, broke the all-time gate record for a featherweight fight, he ended his USA career at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas on PPV against a fighter that had never previously been on PPV. It did 310,000 buys.
Barrera-Morales II - 290,000 buys.
Barrera-Morales III - 300,000 buys.
Barrera-Marquez - 225,000 buys.
Even with the popularity Barrera got from beating Naz, and facing genuine great American based Mexican fighters, the PPV numbers still came up short of the Naz fight. Naz was the A-side.
Naz = US "star." Fact.
