...Then I would like to see him fight GGG and then Andrade or Garcia.
:cool:
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...Then I would like to see him fight GGG and then Andrade or Garcia.
:cool:
He may fight Garcia. I don't think the Manny fight is going to happen, which is just crazy to me. Haven't been this disappointed since Bowe vs. Lewis and Quartey vs. Tito fell through.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Manny needs to make another run of impressive fights. I'd like to see him get this next "fight" out of the way and then hit Garcia at 140 and Thurman at 147 in that order. Maybe throw in JMM one more time for redemption, but I don't think JMM wants to make that fight. I'm not interested in seeing Manny fight Khank or Brook, to be honest.
If Floyd doesn't fight Manny, then I would like to see him fight GGG. There really isn't anyone else that I see pushing Floyd. Khan might make him a little uncomfortable due to a style match up, but I just can't see Floyd losing to him in the end. Floyd is running out of challengers now....
That Ship already set sail. But who knows, many fights have moments for the highlight video. George Forman gave us some great moments. Maybe we can fool ourselves to believe it could still be a great fight.
There is more than a sizeable following that are suggesting that Floyd will fight Manny in his last fight with Showtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
Man! Some of you guys are stupid!
You think it's logical, reasonable or even advisable for Floyd Mayweather who started his pro career at 130LBS in 1996 to fight Gennady Golovkin who started his pro career at 160LBS in 2006?
Floyd has never weighed above 151LBS for a fight. Golovkin weighed in at 170LBS night of the Macklin fight.
Do you guys even think a little before you post?
@ruthless rocco - with all due respect, you're being a little harsh, my friend. I frankly disagree with you. Duran started his career at 130 and fought legitimately up to 168. Duran never claimed to be the best ever either. Floyd's line of clothing is TBE. Enough said. For boxing fans to want him to move up to 160 to fight the most-feared fighter at 160 is not too much to ask at all, especially when he claims he is the best ever and fans have to pay $75 to watch him fight. It actually is an entirely reasonable request.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Second, it's not as far as off as you make it out to be. GGG weighed in at 165 on his thirty day weigh in for his next fight. He has offered to come down to 154 or a catch weight between 154 and 160 for a fight with Floyd. Floyd is the current champion in the junior middleweight division, only one division below.
Ortiz weighed in the night of at 164 for his fight against Floyd. Canelo weighed in the night of at 165. They rumble at 157 or 160 and you would probably see a five pound difference in the night of weight of GGG compared with Ortiz or Canelo.
Sure Rocco, I think before I post. Henry Armstrong was a featherweight champ who challenged for the middleweight title. Ray Robinson started at 147 and fought for the 175 pound title. Roy and Toney held titles at 160 and heavyweight. Sweet Pea was lightweight Champ and won a title at 154. It's what great fighters do, they challenge themselves. Floyd is that good. GGG is a huge risk, and I won't consider Floyd a ducker if it doesn't happen. That being said, Floyd's skill and speed is so great that u make it 50/50. I like watching challenging fights vice blowouts. Don't be so hysterical. Take a breath.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Unless I'm mistaken, and please let me know if I am, Pacquiao has a contract with HBO and Mayweather has a contract with Showtime. They actually can't fight without breaching their contracts. Plus, frankly, I'm tired of hearing about that fight. It's dead.
I'm pretty sure GGG is contracted with HBO too for that matter. So, let's scratch him off the list.
For Mayweather's potential foes at or around his weight class, Andrade at 154, Garcia at 140, Quillin at 160, and the Khan/Brook winner at 147. If Thurman could beat a credible opponent at 147, I'd move him into the 147 slot too, but he hasn't faced anyone worth mentioning yet.
Tyson vs. Lennox was a Main Events promotion in Collaboration with HBO, Showtime and Sky. Mayweather, Pacquiao contracts with Networks just mean their respect networks have exclusive rights to televise each fighter. It doesn't mean they can't fight each other and both networks still have their respective PPV audiences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Garcia is moving up to 147 for the big money fight in may.
Why not fight the guy that beat the guy that beat a guy.
The contract with showtime has wasted Floyd fighting decent fighters. The only one worth it was Saul Alvarez but even then he made him come in at 154lb.
Listen kids. Sometimes the truth is harsh and sometimes it takes some strong language to try and get one's point across. I feel badly that your feelings are hurt but let's look at the examples you've provided as rebuttal.
Duran - 14 of his 16 loses were when he fought above 150LBS. This shows he was out of his depth. Floyd is not going to lose a bunch of fights against much bigger guys at the end of his career when he's worked so hard to be perfect for the last 18 years. He's also not the style of fighter Duran was. He's slick, he's finesse. He wants to look untouchable. He's not looking to brawl some guy 3 weight divisions higher than him just to look like a tough guy. He doesn't have anything to prove except that he's better than his peers within his weight class.
Armstrong - He has an amazing numerical record-- 101-21-10!!! He fought from 120LBS to 148LBS. Crazy numbers indeed! Whats crazier is that he fought bums all the time. 30 fights into his professional career he was fighting Young Danny 0-0-1 // Kid Moro 8-12-5 // Benny Pelz 31-29-22. Crazy! between 1933 and 1935 he fought Perfecto Lopez 8 times; and with a record of 16-12-7 Perfecto he was clearly wasn't. Was he a worthy and deserving opponent? 50 fights into Armstrong's professional career he fought guys like Leo Lomelli 24-14-8 // Lester Marston 9-10-4. Could you imagine if Floyd was fighting guys with records like that right now?!?! Floyd catches shit for fighting Marcos Maidana for his 47th fight. For his, Armstrong fought Sal Hernandez 12-5-4! 100 fights into his pro career Armstrong fights Lew Jenkins 51-26-5, who had lost 5 of his last 6 fights and Earl Turner 16-5-4. I'm sure Floyd could get to 170-0-0 if he fought a career filled with bums!
Robinson - 13 of his 19 loses came in the last 5 years of his career when he was fighting over 155LBS. He lost to guys with records like: 14-4-2 // 15-4-1. He fought 14 times in 1965 alone! Did these final years do anything for his longevity or legacy? Why did he fight so late into his life? He was broke. Floyd is not going out like that - I don't know why you'd want anyone to end their career that way. You're being cruel to suggest that this is something to aspire to.
Roy Jones - Moved up to cruiserweight at age 34 and fought a terrible heavyweight who was lucky to have a title: John Ruiz. This speaks more to the quality of the heavyweight division at the time than it does to Jones' bravery or desire to challenge himself. To prove this point, Jones chooses to not defend the heavyweight title and then proceeds to lose 3 fights within a one year span back at light heavy.
Toney - I love James Toney! He is a fat fuck who was too lazy to train. He did like to challenge himself at the buffet but did not like to push himself in the gym--so yeah, he went up to heavyweight.
What you guys fail to understand is that Floyd has held the top spot in boxing for most of his career. He's been undisputed top 3 p4p for about a decade. He's rich. He makes more money than any other athlete in the world, and he does it without sponsorship deals. He calls himself TBE because that's his brand. He's marketing himself--and he's so good at it that people continue to want to pay $75 to watch his fights. The proof is that he still makes more money than anyone else in sports. You get all mad because he isn't fighting guys that are younger, harder hitting, bigger and heavier than him--but of course he isn't. He needs to keep winning to keep his brand. Why would he fight GGG? Does Golovkin bring big money to the table? No. Does he have fans outside of hardcore boxing fans that will ensure that Floyd will make EVEN MORE money? More money than he did fighting a Robert Guerrerro or Marcos Maidana? No!!! These are really basic business and marketing concepts and that's why I'm telling you you're stupid and asking you if you think before you post. I know you all want boxing to be brainless and about which sad bastard can beat the hell out the other more sad bastard until they both have brain damage... but that's not what boxing really is. It's a big money business that offers fighters the opportunity to make some money in exchange for their health. Few people have the talent, skill, discipline and intelligence to enter the sport and not just survive but thrive and dominate the way Floyd has and then leave with their health and brains and money. Floyd is about to do that. He is a boxing success story and you guys hate him for it. Over time, when people look back and see that Floyd retired 50-0-0, having been the highest earning athlete 5 years in a row AND that he finished his career beating guys with records like 42-0-1 // 37-2-0 // 35-3-0, some of them future hall of famers, then he'll be looked at as one of the best ever -- in the ring and in business.
@ruthless rocco - Are you advocating that Floyd, or any fighter for that matter, shouldn't take challenges to preserve their brand? This is one of the more remarkable posts I've seen from you. You genuinely enjoy the business of boxing more than the sport of boxing. You cheer Floyd's savvy business decisions to the detriment of making challenging fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Take your train of thought of apply it to all fighters. No one would fight anyone they didn't have to fight. I'm just curious - did you cheer when Peter Quillin vacated his title instead of fighting Korobov?
You're missing the point. Floyd isn't most boxers. He's unique. He's the highest level of the sport, both the athleticism and the business ends. There is no other fighter that can operate the way he does. It's not about applying this train of thought to all other fighters. I'm trying to explain why Floyd won't and doesn't need to fight GGG. He is better and smarter than other fighters. Why is that such a problem for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Did you not read my post? How are Floyd's fights against guys like Maidana or Guerrero any less challenging than Armstrong or Robinson's fights against larger and heavier guys with pathetic and close to losing records? Why is it that Floyd gets no credit for continuing to fight top contenders at his own weight division? Would you respect Floyd if he moved up to middleweight and fought guys with 12-5-4 or 9-10-4 records like Robinson and Armstrong did or like Jones did with Ruiz? Of course you wouldn't.
You guys are bitching about nothing like a bunch of cry babies.
This seems really really easy to understand. I'm sorry I can't explain it to you.
Ur kidding, right? R u trolling tight now? Ur not that dumb, r u? The guy who is on here throwing a tantrum because people said they would like to see Floyd challenge himself and fight GGG is saying other people have hurt feelings? Look kid, we gave Floyd his due and laid out examples of other greats who challenged themselves. If u constantly push the envelope and fight the best u r going to lose. Happens to everyone. No one said Floyd was a bum or sucking anyone, just said that it was an intriguing fight to see. As Floyd's #1 fan u come out of left field like a scorned woman and start whining and crying all hysterical. Like Biggie said: "Get a grip..."Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoYou're missing the point. Floyd isn't most boxers. He's unique. He's the highest level of the sport, both the athleticism and the business ends. There is no other fighter that can operate the way he does. It's not about applying this train of thought to all other fighters. I'm trying to explain why Floyd won't and doesn't need to fight GGG. He is better and smarter than other fighters. Why is that such a problem for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Did you not read my post? How are Floyd's fights against guys like Maidana or Guerrero any less challenging than Armstrong or Robinson's fights against larger and heavier guys with pathetic and close to losing records? Why is it that Floyd gets no credit for continuing to fight top contenders at his own weight division? Would you respect Floyd if he moved up to middleweight and fought guys with 12-5-4 or 9-10-4 records like Robinson and Armstrong did or like Jones did with Ruiz? Of course you wouldn't.
You guys are bitching about nothing like a bunch of cry babies.
This seems really really easy to understand. I'm sorry I can't explain it to you.
What u r saying, is that once a fighter reaches the P4P level, they should maintain their record and avoid historical fights that r dangerous. I try not insult people on here, but that is probably the dumbest thought I've read and u seem like a moron. Or a really good troll. If u r a troll, job well done.
Floyd might very well be ducking Manny, it's a boxing travesty this fight is not being made. (It should've happened years ago) Whatever faults Floyd might have, he's not completely out of his mind by even thinking for a micro second about GGG. Golovkin is a monster who should be avoided by all even in his own division!!! Cotto and Canelo must be on GGG's radar, i wonder if GGG is on theirs? Floyd isn't even thinking about it. IMO it's Manny or bust for Floyd. It's insane this fight is not happening.
I'm not sure you know how to read. I never said any of the things you claim. Try looking over my post and sounding out the words. If you're having trouble understanding you could ask your mom or maybe your next door neighbour.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
As for Biggie, that marble mouthed chunk of meatloaf sucked at life. Now he's dead.
At his age doesn't really matter anymore why move up when he still has guys he can make more money on as for Pac after he got killed by Jmm that fight doesn't make have chills anymore. Mayweather has fought for along time and i think he will actually be able to speak clearly and have money still.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Thank you! Finally someone with a brain enters the discussion.
Half of what you write about Armstrong is parroting what other's have written on this forum which takes a very small brain to do. Mayweather would win plenty of 170 fights no doubt but there is no way he could go through that many fights and be in the kind of shape he exhibits today and remain undefeated on paper. He's already starting to sound more like pops even without the head shots. Try to imagine what stepping into to the ring with 20 or so amature swarmers with Chino's power would do. Let me help you out. He would avoid most of the punishment of a single fight but the accumulated blows is what does the damage. He doesn't get the 6 months rest between fights to prepare. as so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Thank you! Finally someone with a brain enters the discussion.
You, like the other dummies that have responded so far have missed my point. Armstrong fought bums through out his entire career. If Floyd were fighting 160LB guys with terrible records like Armstrong did would you be praising him? No! You'd say he was crap cherry picking fighters with 12-5-4 records. Floyd doesn't have to fight 14 times a year because he's talented, skilled, determined & smart enough to market his career so that he's not only the best fighter at his weight class but also the highest paid athlete in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyHalf of what you write about Armstrong is parroting what other's have written on this forum which takes a very small brain to do. Mayweather would win plenty of 170 fights no doubt but there is no way he could go through that many fights and be in the kind of shape he exhibits today and remain undefeated on paper. He's already starting to sound more like pops even without the head shots. Try to imagine what stepping into to the ring with 20 or so amature swarmers with Chino's power would do. Let me help you out. He would avoid most of the punishment of a single fight but the accumulated blows is what does the damage. He doesn't get the 6 months rest between fights to prepare. as so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Thank you! Finally someone with a brain enters the discussion.
You guys are all the same. You read my post and try to put words in my mouth. Let me help you out: You're a moron.
Rocco, you are an idiot. No one is putting words in your mouth, you just say a ton of stupid things. It's also laughable and pathetic to create a persona who talks tough on the internet. Armstrong, JCC, Robinson...etc., do not get grief for fighting bums because they fought every month, used those bums as tune ups, and fought damn near every available big challenge they could. No one is giving Floyd grief, really. But if you proclaim yourself the best ever, have some accomplishments to back that up. JLC, Hatton, and Chico don't get you there. You can go back to playing world of Warcraft on your mommy's computer now...Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoYou, like the other dummies that have responded so far have missed my point. Armstrong fought bums through out his entire career. If Floyd were fighting 160LB guys with terrible records like Armstrong did would you be praising him? No! You'd say he was crap cherry picking fighters with 12-5-4 records. Floyd doesn't have to fight 14 times a year because he's talented, skilled, determined & smart enough to market his career so that he's not only the best fighter at his weight class but also the highest paid athlete in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnnyHalf of what you write about Armstrong is parroting what other's have written on this forum which takes a very small brain to do. Mayweather would win plenty of 170 fights no doubt but there is no way he could go through that many fights and be in the kind of shape he exhibits today and remain undefeated on paper. He's already starting to sound more like pops even without the head shots. Try to imagine what stepping into to the ring with 20 or so amature swarmers with Chino's power would do. Let me help you out. He would avoid most of the punishment of a single fight but the accumulated blows is what does the damage. He doesn't get the 6 months rest between fights to prepare. as so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Thank you! Finally someone with a brain enters the discussion.
You guys are all the same. You read my post and try to put words in my mouth. Let me help you out: You're a moron.
Who has GGG beat ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
GGG hasn't done enough to be considered a threat to Mayweather
GGG should go and fight Cotto.....see how ya get on.....or Canelo.....see how ya get on......or move up and fight Froch or Ward.....see how ya get on
Truth be told I think he loses to all of them but for me to take GGG seriously he needs to fight and DESTROY one of those guys for me to take him seriously because should he do that, then the whole boxing world would sit up and take notice.
Remember Mayweather started at super-feather, GGG is natural middleweight, FM is already whooping guys who are naturally bigger than him, maybe if GGG moved down to light middleweight ? All in all. I don't see FM having much trouble with GGG. He whoops that "Come forward. I'm gonna knock you out" style all day.
Andrade ? To be honest, he could be anything really but let him fight Maidana or Canelo before I take him seriously.
Danny Garcia ? He has no chance of beating Mayweather. Amir Khan would have had an easy UD against Garcia had Khan had a chin. I just don't see him causing Mayweather any problems what so ever
I've said it once and I'll say it again. The only two fighters I see who would have a shot at beating FM are
1) Guillermo Rigondeaux
2) Andre Ward
What Weights would either of these 2 fantasy fights be at ? Rigondeaux is 20lbs lighter and Ward is 20lbs Heavier!Quote:
Originally Posted by denilson200Who has GGG beat ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
GGG hasn't done enough to be considered a threat to Mayweather
GGG should go and fight Cotto.....see how ya get on.....or Canelo.....see how ya get on......or move up and fight Froch or Ward.....see how ya get on
Truth be told I think he loses to all of them but for me to take GGG seriously he needs to fight and DESTROY one of those guys for me to take him seriously because should he do that, then the whole boxing world would sit up and take notice.
Remember Mayweather started at super-feather, GGG is natural middleweight, FM is already whooping guys who are naturally bigger than him, maybe if GGG moved down to light middleweight ? All in all. I don't see FM having much trouble with GGG. He whoops that "Come forward. I'm gonna knock you out" style all day.
Andrade ? To be honest, he could be anything really but let him fight Maidana or Canelo before I take him seriously.
Danny Garcia ? He has no chance of beating Mayweather. Amir Khan would have had an easy UD against Garcia had Khan had a chin. I just don't see him causing Mayweather any problems what so ever
I've said it once and I'll say it again. The only two fighters I see who would have a shot at beating FM are
1) Guillermo Rigondeaux
2) Andre Ward
in answer to the thread title, if Floyd never fights Manny........ it will be the single worst thing that has happened to Boxing in the last 15 years and had nothing but a negative effect. This is regardless of "who's fault it is".
Frankly, although it doesn't have the quality it had 4 years ago, I still think it's the most intriguing and toughest fight out there for Floyd. I reckon that time has levelled things out a bit , but I still don't see Floyd losing.
Yeah I know FM will never fight Rigo or Ward but I was talking in a P4P sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWhat Weights would either of these 2 fantasy fights be at ? Rigondeaux is 20lbs lighter and Ward is 20lbs Heavier!Quote:
Originally Posted by denilson200Who has GGG beat ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
GGG hasn't done enough to be considered a threat to Mayweather
GGG should go and fight Cotto.....see how ya get on.....or Canelo.....see how ya get on......or move up and fight Froch or Ward.....see how ya get on
Truth be told I think he loses to all of them but for me to take GGG seriously he needs to fight and DESTROY one of those guys for me to take him seriously because should he do that, then the whole boxing world would sit up and take notice.
Remember Mayweather started at super-feather, GGG is natural middleweight, FM is already whooping guys who are naturally bigger than him, maybe if GGG moved down to light middleweight ? All in all. I don't see FM having much trouble with GGG. He whoops that "Come forward. I'm gonna knock you out" style all day.
Andrade ? To be honest, he could be anything really but let him fight Maidana or Canelo before I take him seriously.
Danny Garcia ? He has no chance of beating Mayweather. Amir Khan would have had an easy UD against Garcia had Khan had a chin. I just don't see him causing Mayweather any problems what so ever
I've said it once and I'll say it again. The only two fighters I see who would have a shot at beating FM are
1) Guillermo Rigondeaux
2) Andre Ward
in answer to the thread title, if Floyd never fights Manny........ it will be the single worst thing that has happened to Boxing in the last 15 years and had nothing but a negative effect. This is regardless of "who's fault it is".
Frankly, although it doesn't have the quality it had 4 years ago, I still think it's the most intriguing and toughest fight out there for Floyd. I reckon that time has levelled things out a bit , but I still don't see Floyd losing.
I do agree FM not fighting Pac-Man leaves a stain on both of their careers. I don't think it's so much that either fighter is scared of either one. I just think it's politics and even if they do fight, it'll be another Tyson Vs Holyfield or Tyson Vs Lewis, Calzaghe Vs Jones....many years too late.
I think the difference is that Duran ate his way up to those higher weights and fought there out of necessity when he got older.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
In reality, Floyd is a small WW. And because I know people will disagree with that and quote heights and weights to me, let me explain: for most people this is obvious, but for those who might not know weight cutting has come a long way, and a guy who weighs 147 at the weigh in does not walk around at 147 and doesn't not fight at 147. A guy who fights at 147 will usually weigh 157 or more on fight day.
For reference, when Mayweather fought Sharmba Mitchell, Floyd was 147 at the weigh in and 148 on fight day. In contrast, Mitchell was 145 at the weigh in and 155 on fight night. Against Baldomir, Floyd was 146 weigh in, 149 fight night. Baldomir was 147 weigh in, 162 fight night. In the first Maidana fight, Mayweather was 146 weigh in and 148 on fight night. Maidana was 146 1/2 at weigh in and 165 on fight night. That's a nearly 20lb differential. Floyd's fight time weight of 146-151 is more comparable to the fight time weight of a junior WW or even a large LW.
So if Floyd is being outweighed by so much at WW, why do we expect him to go to 160 and fight an absolute killer, at 38 years old no less. A guy who's never entered a ring weighing more than 151lbs doesn't belong in a weigh class with guys who weigh in at 160 and come to the ring at 170 plus.
That aside, I don't even see why people feel the need for him to move up. It's not like he's cleared the division... the WW division is probably the hottest in boxing right now. There are a lot of young guys I'd love to see him fight. In fact, I'll go on record and say that I think Shawn Porter would beat the shit out of Floyd.
Yeah if Floyd goes up to MW, it'll be against Cotto to try to become the MW champ. There's no way he's going to fight GGG, it's a suicide mission.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
in a P4P sense , both are worth mentioning, the problem is Ward is semi-retired and Rigondeaux , through no fault of his own needs some high profile contests, everyone avoids him. also , in the pro game , I think he's only had about 14 fights, but there's no denying his class. Having said all that, if Floyd retired today, I reckon I would probably agree that Rigo should be seen as no.1 P4P.Quote:
Originally Posted by denilson200Yeah I know FM will never fight Rigo or Ward but I was talking in a P4P sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWhat Weights would either of these 2 fantasy fights be at ? Rigondeaux is 20lbs lighter and Ward is 20lbs Heavier!Quote:
Originally Posted by denilson200Who has GGG beat ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
GGG hasn't done enough to be considered a threat to Mayweather
GGG should go and fight Cotto.....see how ya get on.....or Canelo.....see how ya get on......or move up and fight Froch or Ward.....see how ya get on
Truth be told I think he loses to all of them but for me to take GGG seriously he needs to fight and DESTROY one of those guys for me to take him seriously because should he do that, then the whole boxing world would sit up and take notice.
Remember Mayweather started at super-feather, GGG is natural middleweight, FM is already whooping guys who are naturally bigger than him, maybe if GGG moved down to light middleweight ? All in all. I don't see FM having much trouble with GGG. He whoops that "Come forward. I'm gonna knock you out" style all day.
Andrade ? To be honest, he could be anything really but let him fight Maidana or Canelo before I take him seriously.
Danny Garcia ? He has no chance of beating Mayweather. Amir Khan would have had an easy UD against Garcia had Khan had a chin. I just don't see him causing Mayweather any problems what so ever
I've said it once and I'll say it again. The only two fighters I see who would have a shot at beating FM are
1) Guillermo Rigondeaux
2) Andre Ward
in answer to the thread title, if Floyd never fights Manny........ it will be the single worst thing that has happened to Boxing in the last 15 years and had nothing but a negative effect. This is regardless of "who's fault it is".
Frankly, although it doesn't have the quality it had 4 years ago, I still think it's the most intriguing and toughest fight out there for Floyd. I reckon that time has levelled things out a bit , but I still don't see Floyd losing.
I do agree FM not fighting Pac-Man leaves a stain on both of their careers. I don't think it's so much that either fighter is scared of either one. I just think it's politics and even if they do fight, it'll be another Tyson Vs Holyfield or Tyson Vs Lewis, Calzaghe Vs Jones....many years too late.
Again, it's nice to know there are some members of the forum that are able to be rational, logical, factual and passionate about boxing. These are all good points. I think people just want to see Floyd lose. That's why they're demanding he fight GGG or Ward... Who's next--Kovalev, Klitchko?!! These so called fans of boxing are just sore losers who are jealous of Floyd's position in boxing. They won't be happy until they see him KO'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI think the difference is that Duran ate his way up to those higher weights and fought there out of necessity when he got older.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
In reality, Floyd is a small WW. And because I know people will disagree with that and quote heights and weights to me, let me explain: for most people this is obvious, but for those who might not know weight cutting has come a long way, and a guy who weighs 147 at the weigh in does not walk around at 147 and doesn't not fight at 147. A guy who fights at 147 will usually weigh 157 or more on fight day.
For reference, when Mayweather fought Sharmba Mitchell, Floyd was 147 at the weigh in and 148 on fight day. In contrast, Mitchell was 145 at the weigh in and 155 on fight night. Against Baldomir, Floyd was 146 weigh in, 149 fight night. Baldomir was 147 weigh in, 162 fight night. In the first Maidana fight, Mayweather was 146 weigh in and 148 on fight night. Maidana was 146 1/2 at weigh in and 165 on fight night. That's a nearly 20lb differential. Floyd's fight time weight of 146-151 is more comparable to the fight time weight of a junior WW or even a large LW.
So if Floyd is being outweighed by so much at WW, why do we expect him to go to 160 and fight an absolute killer, at 38 years old no less. A guy who's never entered a ring weighing more than 151lbs doesn't belong in a weigh class with guys who weigh in at 160 and come to the ring at 170 plus.
That aside, I don't even see why people feel the need for him to move up. It's not like he's cleared the division... the WW division is probably the hottest in boxing right now. There are a lot of young guys I'd love to see him fight. In fact, I'll go on record and say that I think Shawn Porter would beat the shit out of Floyd.
Floyd is The Best Ever. The proof? He'll retire 50-0-0 with all his faculties, his health, his mind, rich as fuck, owning a promotional company that is a force in the sport. He will have changed the goals of other fighters to be their own promoters/managers--essentially putting the power into the hands of the athletes. They are the ones who are living and dying for your entertainment. He will have been the highest paid athlete in the world for 4 or 5 years straight, and this in an era where they say boxing is dying. And he'll have done it all his way. Not by following someone else's lead. He is responsible for his success. If you're able to wrap you stiff and tiny brain around this concept (I doubt you can) then you'll see that he is TBE. I beg for you to tell me will have done better with their entire career.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I don't think Floyd will get his just due until long after he retires because he's a hard guy to talk about objectively. Which is understandable, because he is a clear douche bag, but I never understood how a boxing fan can't appreciate Floyd the boxer, because like him or hate him he's the kind of athlete that comes to a sport once every 25-50 years, if ever.
Haters will always find excuse after excuse as to why a guy who's gone 18 years and counting without a loss (16 of those fought at a world championship level) is a bum, a fraud, doesn't deserve to be a boxing great, ect. It really is just silly to hear the stuff people come up with. I think future generations of boxing fans will have more appreciation, because all the drama will be gone and they'll just have the actual art to judge him on. And if you're talking the art of boxing, and you know the art of boxing, Floyd Mayweather is at least top 5 all time and has a serious case for #1.
There are two arguments here. One argument is comparing Armstrong etc. to Mayweather. You and I have done that before. No need to do it again. We can agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoYou're missing the point. Floyd isn't most boxers. He's unique. He's the highest level of the sport, both the athleticism and the business ends. There is no other fighter that can operate the way he does. It's not about applying this train of thought to all other fighters. I'm trying to explain why Floyd won't and doesn't need to fight GGG. He is better and smarter than other fighters. Why is that such a problem for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
The other argument is about Floyd Mayweather's opponents.
Please answer the questions below:
"Are you advocating that Floyd shouldn't take challenging fights? If so, why?" - these were already asked but not answered.
I have two more questions for you too.
Who would be the toughest fights for Floyd right now?
Who do you want to see Floyd face?
Why wouldn't we feel the need for him to move up? He's best lineal champion at 147 and 154. As a fan of boxing, wouldn't you want to see if he can become the lineal champion at 160 too? Why the heck not? Can any boxing fan say with a straight face that they wouldn't want to see Floyd face GGG or didn't want to see him face Sergio Martinez?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerI think the difference is that Duran ate his way up to those higher weights and fought there out of necessity when he got older.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
In reality, Floyd is a small WW. And because I know people will disagree with that and quote heights and weights to me, let me explain: for most people this is obvious, but for those who might not know weight cutting has come a long way, and a guy who weighs 147 at the weigh in does not walk around at 147 and doesn't not fight at 147. A guy who fights at 147 will usually weigh 157 or more on fight day.
For reference, when Mayweather fought Sharmba Mitchell, Floyd was 147 at the weigh in and 148 on fight day. In contrast, Mitchell was 145 at the weigh in and 155 on fight night. Against Baldomir, Floyd was 146 weigh in, 149 fight night. Baldomir was 147 weigh in, 162 fight night. In the first Maidana fight, Mayweather was 146 weigh in and 148 on fight night. Maidana was 146 1/2 at weigh in and 165 on fight night. That's a nearly 20lb differential. Floyd's fight time weight of 146-151 is more comparable to the fight time weight of a junior WW or even a large LW.
So if Floyd is being outweighed by so much at WW, why do we expect him to go to 160 and fight an absolute killer, at 38 years old no less. A guy who's never entered a ring weighing more than 151lbs doesn't belong in a weigh class with guys who weigh in at 160 and come to the ring at 170 plus.
That aside, I don't even see why people feel the need for him to move up. It's not like he's cleared the division... the WW division is probably the hottest in boxing right now. There are a lot of young guys I'd love to see him fight. In fact, I'll go on record and say that I think Shawn Porter would beat the shit out of Floyd.
By the way, no one needs to move up. I don't think GGG needs to move up to 168 to face Froch or Ward. He makes 160 comfortably. But, as a boxing fan, don't we want him to, especially if he clears out the middleweight division first? In fact, once he clears out the division, wouldn't it more fun as a boxing fan if he moved up to challenge himself?
Also, Floyd doesn't need to fight anyone. He's at the top of the sport and the networks and athletic commissions let him do what they want because he brings in so much money. I 100% understand from a business perspective why he wouldn't take challenges. Why would Floyd face GGG when he can he face Maidana? GGG is a much harder fight and the money now might not be that different. But show me a boxing fan that wouldn't prefer to see him face GGG.
The obscene amount of money Floyd is being paid he should fight GGG.
Seriously? He's the top boxer in the world and he's making $32 million per fight. How is he not getting his just due right now? He hasn't even retired and people are putting him in their top 50 of all-time. You say he is the best of all time. If he isn't getting his just due, I'm not sure what just due is frankly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
I am not advocating that Floyd not take challenging fights. I never said anything resembling that. --But many of you seem to think that the only tough fights for Floyd would be moving up in weight and taking on opponents that are naturally much bigger and heavier than him. Guys that are going to finish their careers at light heavy or cruiser weight. This is ridiculous! I'm trying to explain that Floyd should only be expected to fight opponents within his natural weight range. He's 38 years old, rich, healthy and in control of his career. Why would he throw it all away trying to get respect from douche bags that aren't ever going to respect him and only want to see him lose?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
The toughest fights for Floyd within his natural weight range - Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia Miguel Cotto, Erislandy Lara
I'd love to Floyd fight Shawn Porter, Danny Garcia, Miguel Cotto, Erislandy Lara, Chris Algieri, Saul Alvarez
The problem here is that the view from the top is a lot different from the view from the bottom or more importantly in this case the view from the arm chair. Floyd Mayweather is at the top of the sport of boxing, in every sense. He knows how the sport works. He's seen all the shit on his way up and now that he's on top he knows he's not going back down to the bottom. He's seen his own family flushed their lives down the toilet. Now he's in complete control of his career. No other boxer has had this before. He bought out his contract and never looked back. He's a gifted genius, a brilliant business man who has worked very hard to get to the pinnacle of a sport. He's in fact reached beyond the top. He's created a new level in boxing. You all hate him for it. You say it's not fair. It's not deserved. In a sport where you can die in the ring, a sport that is rife with corruption, where your career, health and life are in other people's hands... What part of boxing is fair? Floyd has gone beyond that. He's the ultimate success story in a sport where no one leaves healthy, happy and wealthy. This make him the best ever and you hate him for it. You'd rather see him KO'd with brain damage and broke then leave a winner.
My thoughts exactly. I give him his just due, as do most fans. The issue is when the Floyd lovers get hysterical and say he's the greatest ever and just because he didn't fight that great of competition it wasn't his fault and he gets paid a lot so that makes him great and if you don't think he's the greatest then you are a hater and blah, blah, blah. Rocco is a prime example. Lays out a post touting Floyd as the greatest fighter and backs his statement up with business and finance numbers. What a dipshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratSeriously? He's the top boxer in the world and he's making $32 million per fight. How is he not getting his just due right now? He hasn't even retired and people are putting him in their top 50 of all-time. You say he is the best of all time. If he isn't getting his just due, I'm not sure what just due is frankly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Floyd's an ATG fighter. Floyd has beaten solid competition and hasn't ducked anyone. That being said, Floyd hasn't beaten the competition or faced the competition that Pea, Oscar, Mosely, Tito, Hop... Etc., faced. I don't consider Floyd's competition as bad as Roy Jones Jr.'s, but it isn't on the level of those previously mentioned. For me to consider him TBE, he would've had to beat the Kostyas, Prime Shane, Paul Williams, Prime Mannys...etc., of the world. Before you hungers piss yourself, especially you Rocco, I know Floyd didn't duck them and I think Floyd would've beaten them. I also thought Roy would beat Tarver and Tyson would beat Douglas so Floyd doesn't get credit. From me for what might have been.
I'd love to see Floyd fight GGG. I'd love to see Floyd fight Wlad. I'd love to see Floyd try to jump over the Grand Canyon on a BMX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I just don't think he should be expected to do any of those things. You talk about it like he needs the GGG fight for his legacy, or he owes it to the fans. He really doesn't.
You know exactly what I mean when I say that. I'm not talking about financial, I'm talking about legacy and credibility. A day doesn't pass on this forum and others where someone isn't making a thread about how Floyd is a coward, a fraud, ect. How his competition has been shit, how everyone was hand picked and fought at the right time, how he pays off refs and judges, whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
His craft and accomplishments do not get nearly the credit they deserve, and probably won't until long after he's gone. Guys like me who think he belongs at least in the top 10 of all time are a small minority. There's still a large portion of boxing fans who believe Pac will go down as the greater fighter.
Floyd obviously knows a bit more about being a professional prize fighter than you. The fact that you think boxing is just about fights shows that you're naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Who has accomplished more in the sport of boxing than Floyd?