Manny & Floyds run of opponents...wow

Just picked out what i think are the best run of fights for each guy and wowie! For botht o be fair but Pac espesh - that is unreal! Froch's run of fights is amazing but I think Pac's must be the best in the sport - perhaps until algeri and rios anyway...

Have to say in terms of legacy it looks like Pac runs away with it despite the common opponents - but still I would say it's a pick em fight at their peaks (Mayweather when he beat Hatton - an arguble prime anyway) and Pac when he beat Cotto - again arguable prime



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I prefer Manny's opponent history. He generally destroys opponents that Mayweather has a tough time with and fights opponents that Mayweather wouldn't face. Plus even though Mayweather beat Marquez better, he had to cheat with the weight and not even making weight to do it. Pac has the added depth with the quality of Barrera and Morales, whilst Mayweather has too much filler like Maidana, Ortiz and Guerrrero. Pac would blitz each of those guys, whereas Mayweather went 36 rounds and again cheated, but this time with a sucker punch. Manny really annoyed me by beating up Barrera and Hatton, but time heals the fanboy scars.

Marquez

Such a joke reading these as each fan will always defend the other but theres no defending pacs losses.

Thats why mayweather is the best and beats all eras of manny.

So manny beating cotto was at his weight? Manny beat a better version of hatton? Manny beat a post margacheato mosely? Would manny fight canelo? So clottey beats maidana?..

There will always be an excuse for each fighter but manny has been beaten and exposed 5 times already and khan could easily expose him again if they (bob) decide to duck floyd again for the third time!!

I love froch and have grown to like calzaghe..calzaghe beats all types of froch and its the same with mayweather but on a much wider scale.

Opening post was excellent and great call!

I also hold PBF for the weight against JMM, but I also hold Pac for all the catchweight fights.
On fight night going back to Morales Pac weighed 138 ten years later he has never weighed more than 147-148.
How does a fighter get credit for winning in so many divisions while weighing between 138-148 for ten years? Wins a 154lb title without ever fighting at that weight...against a guy in Margarito who also never beat anybody at that weight...and the limit was to come in at 150- same with PBF vs Canelo.
They both have made unnecessary demands ..but boxrec doesn't tell that part of their careers.
Both these guys are too talented to win fights on the sly.

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Originally Posted by imp

Such a joke reading these as each fan will always defend the other but theres no defending pacs losses.

Thats why mayweather is the best and beats all eras of manny.

So manny beating cotto was at his weight? Manny beat a better version of hatton? Manny beat a post margacheato mosely? Would manny fight canelo? So clottey beats maidana?..

There will always be an excuse for each fighter but manny has been beaten and exposed 5 times already and khan could easily expose him again if they (bob) decide to duck floyd again for the third time!!

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I knew you would come in to throw some pac hate and floyd ball sac sucking in the thread. Gotta defend your honey boo boo.

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Originally Posted by chris6878

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Originally Posted by imp

Such a joke reading these as each fan will always defend the other but theres no defending pacs losses.

Thats why mayweather is the best and beats all eras of manny.

So manny beating cotto was at his weight? Manny beat a better version of hatton? Manny beat a post margacheato mosely? Would manny fight canelo? So clottey beats maidana?..

There will always be an excuse for each fighter but manny has been beaten and exposed 5 times already and khan could easily expose him again if they (bob) decide to duck floyd again for the third time!!

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I knew you would come in to throw some pac hate and floyd ball sac sucking in the thread. Gotta defend your honey boo boo.

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Chris,

At least reply with something that can contribute instead of just hating.

Come on matey, its obvious I will side with money (avatar!?) but at least Put up a decent arguement instead of calling names.

I dont hate pac I dislike his boss and I prefer khan..

It really shows your immaturity so please learn from this..

That's why in the future Pac will be seen as the greater fighter. In the end, boxing aficionados wont be looking at money generated or PPV figures, they'll just be judged by who they fought.

Unless Floyd actually faces - and beats - Pac. Then it all changes, of course.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

That's why in the future Pac will be seen as the greater fighter. In the end, boxing aficionados wont be looking at money generated or PPV figures, they'll just be judged by who they fought.

Unless Floyd actually faces - and beats - Pac. Then it all changes, of course.

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Better fighter - pac

Better boxer - floyd

Does a better fighter beat a better boxer?...let history determine that answer.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by Fenster

That's why in the future Pac will be seen as the greater fighter. In the end, boxing aficionados wont be looking at money generated or PPV figures, they'll just be judged by who they fought.

Unless Floyd actually faces - and beats - Pac. Then it all changes, of course.

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Better fighter - pac

Better boxer - floyd

Does a better fighter beat a better boxer?...let history determine that answer.

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First time you said something reasonable, without hugging nuts. Good shit!

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Originally Posted by chris6878

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by Fenster

That's why in the future Pac will be seen as the greater fighter. In the end, boxing aficionados wont be looking at money generated or PPV figures, they'll just be judged by who they fought.

Unless Floyd actually faces - and beats - Pac. Then it all changes, of course.

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Better fighter - pac

Better boxer - floyd

Does a better fighter beat a better boxer?...let history determine that answer.

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First time you said something reasonable, without hugging nuts. Good shit!

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Lol.

Chris, the only nuts i hug are my own son.

I said it before and ill say it again..my respect and admiration of floyd mayweather starts and ends in the ring.

If course you have to admire his business mind and I wish that pac would have went the same way but its not going to happen so I can only side with the truth from the information that is exposed.

Floyd's run began in '98 when he beat up Genaro Hernandez and it's been going on ever since. Manny, as great as he is and as fantastic a career as he has had, has lost in every "timeframe" of his career: early, middle and "prime".

Roach and Pac cherry-picked as much as Floyd. After Manny beat the shit out of DLH, Roach admitted that they fought him because Roach had been watching DLH and saw that Oscar couldn't "pull the trigger" anymore and was essentially washed up. And really, if you truly examine both resumes in an unbiased manner, keeping in mind the context and timing of each win... there really isn't a whole lot of difference. Both guys fought and beat the shit out of a lot of tough, world class opposition.

Manny is a legit beast and ATG, but Floyd was the better fighter. He was more skilled, he was a smarter fighter and he had the ability to figure guys out and switch gears. If Floyd had a tough first 6 rounds, he adjusted and won the last 6. If he had a tough fight with a guy, in the rematch it wouldn't even be competitive. Manny never had that second and third gear, and he never could figure JMM out.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Floyd's run began in '98 when he beat up Genaro Hernandez and it's been going on ever since. Manny, as great as he is and as fantastic a career as he has had, has lost in every "timeframe" of his career: early, middle and "prime".

Roach and Pac cherry-picked as much as Floyd. After Manny beat the shit out of DLH, Roach admitted that they fought him because Roach had been watching DLH and saw that Oscar couldn't "pull the trigger" anymore and was essentially washed up. And really, if you truly examine both resumes in an unbiased manner, keeping in mind the context and timing of each win... there really isn't a whole lot of difference. Both guys fought and beat the shit out of a lot of tough, world class opposition.

Manny is a legit beast and ATG, but Floyd was the better fighter. He was more skilled, he was a smarter fighter and he had the ability to figure guys out and switch gears. If Floyd had a tough first 6 rounds, he adjusted and won the last 6. If he had a tough fight with a guy, in the rematch it wouldn't even be competitive. Manny never had that second and third gear, and he never could figure JMM out.

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True.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Floyd's run began in '98 when he beat up Genaro Hernandez and it's been going on ever since. Manny, as great as he is and as fantastic a career as he has had, has lost in every "timeframe" of his career: early, middle and "prime".

Roach and Pac cherry-picked as much as Floyd. After Manny beat the shit out of DLH, Roach admitted that they fought him because Roach had been watching DLH and saw that Oscar couldn't "pull the trigger" anymore and was essentially washed up. And really, if you truly examine both resumes in an unbiased manner, keeping in mind the context and timing of each win... there really isn't a whole lot of difference. Both guys fought and beat the shit out of a lot of tough, world class opposition.

Manny is a legit beast and ATG, but Floyd was the better fighter. He was more skilled, he was a smarter fighter and he had the ability to figure guys out and switch gears. If Floyd had a tough first 6 rounds, he adjusted and won the last 6. If he had a tough fight with a guy, in the rematch it wouldn't even be competitive. Manny never had that second and third gear, and he never could figure JMM out.

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True.

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It is very true but a post like that will fade away or be overlooked as the majority don't want to believe that.

Let's be honest..its better for bob and his army to not have the fight so they can finish their respective careers and bob can always say in years to come "woulda coulda shoulda".

Another loss for pac from mayweather would have a huuuuge effect on bob arum mentally, physically and financially even though he's minted.

Do you really think a 90 yr old bob arum wants his former pound for pound fighter beating his current pound for pound fighter?

Its about pride and power.

How's Manny's record going to be seen when it's got one big asterix after another running through the middle of it?

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I prefer Manny's opponent history. He generally destroys opponents that Mayweather has a tough time with and fights opponents that Mayweather wouldn't face. Plus even though Mayweather beat Marquez better, he had to cheat with the weight and not even making weight to do it. Pac has the added depth with the quality of Barrera and Morales, whilst Mayweather has too much filler like Maidana, Ortiz and Guerrrero. Pac would blitz each of those guys, whereas Mayweather went 36 rounds and again cheated, but this time with a sucker punch. Manny really annoyed me by beating up Barrera and Hatton, but time heals the fanboy scars.

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So Floyd used weight against JMM to an advantage but Manny 'the catchweight king' doesn't fight weight drained opponents every other fight? :vd:

Floyd not coming in on weight against JMM was poor, but don't act like he out muscled and out brawled JMM in that fight... The difference in skill was substantial, JMM was out thought, not out fought.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

In the end, boxing aficionados wont be looking at money generated or PPV figures, they'll just be judged by who they fought.

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Most of the time anyway... :rolleyes: ;D

The run from De La Hoya to Clotty for me is where Pac is so so impressive

I know there are various excuses (i.e. de la hoya washed up) but heres what i expected for each fight:

De La Hoya:
Expectation: De La Hoya Win - Much bigger, SD vs Flloyd 1.5 years earlier
Result: Pac TKO 8 - Stopped him earlier than anyone ever had before (Hopkins 9)

Hatton:
Expectation: 50-50 I thought it would be a firecracker
Result: KO 2 - Wow.

Cotto:
Expectation: I thought Pac would win this but again via an absoulute war (not sure what the odds on this fight were)
Result: Total one sided 12th round stoppage (great fight though!) - not even like the Margarito fight where Cotto was ever ahead on the cards etc

Clotty:
Expectation: Clotty would lose a reasonably close UD like he did in his other big fights i.e vs Margarito
Result: One sided domination - Clotty is a top quality operator and no one has ever beaten him that easily

Now of course Mayweather would have been the favourite for all of these fights which doesn't make his victories vs Hatton De La Hoya etc any less good but the manner Pac dispatched these 4 in makes me think if they fought at this time that he would be 50-50 to have beaten Floyd - watch the fights he's simply outstanding.

The opponents were impressive but they have tailed off a bit from the high standards they had set.

ODLH was like a corpse when Pac fought him. 143lb and had to rehydrate with an intravenous drip...

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

ODLH was like a corpse when Pac fought him. 143lb and had to rehydrate with an intravenous drip...

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Oscar was dumb enough to offer to go down to that weight because he did not want to look like a bully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j35_BYabvW4

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Floyd not coming in on weight against JMM was poor, but don't act like he out muscled and out brawled JMM in that fight... The difference in skill was substantial, JMM was out thought, not out fought.

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That's a key point that gets left out. Floyd didn't fight a "big man" fight. The advantages you would normally give to a smaller fighter - speed, skill, reflexes, ect - were all to Floyd's advantage. Floyd completely outclassed one of the greatest fighters of this generation.

I love how people act like the JMM Floyd fought at WW was a different guy altogether than the JMM Pac fought at WW. JMM was leaner in the Pac fight for sure, but he weighed in at 142 to fight Floyd and 142/143 to fight Pac.

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Originally Posted by oakleyno1

watch the fights he's simply outstanding.

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Not only is Pac one of the greatest boxers of all time, he's also one of the top action, bang for your buck fighters. I love the little fella truth be told. I just think he gets a pass on a lot of things that people would and do hold Floyd to the fire for because he's a more likeable guy.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Floyd not coming in on weight against JMM was poor, but don't act like he out muscled and out brawled JMM in that fight... The difference in skill was substantial, JMM was out thought, not out fought.

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That's a key point that gets left out. Floyd didn't fight a "big man" fight. The advantages you would normally give to a smaller fighter - speed, skill, reflexes, ect - were all to Floyd's advantage. Floyd completely outclassed one of the greatest fighters of this generation.

I love how people act like the JMM Floyd fought at WW was a different guy altogether than the JMM Pac fought at WW. JMM was leaner in the Pac fight for sure, but he weighed in at 142 to fight Floyd and 142/143 to fight Pac.

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But you do have to factor in how Mayweather and Marquez would have fought knowing Marquez very likely couldn't hurt Floyd.

Not that its not a good win - in fact it's probably a great win - Marquez is clearly Pacs bogey fighter - Mayweather arguebly doesn't have one except Castillo - although I thought he lost the first fight he did adapt and beat him pretty convincingly the 2nd - unlike Manny and JMM fights

Mannys has been unbelieveable hasnt it, for years

has there ever been a better/tougher/more impressive run of opponents?

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Originally Posted by oakleyno1

But you do have to factor in how Mayweather and Marquez would have fought knowing Marquez very likely couldn't hurt Floyd.

Not that its not a good win - in fact it's probably a great win - Marquez is clearly Pacs bogey fighter - Mayweather arguebly doesn't have one except Castillo - although I thought he lost the first fight he did adapt and beat him pretty convincingly the 2nd - unlike Manny and JMM fights

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Yeah JMM isn't a true WW in the modern sense (neither is Floyd to be fair), but JMM dropped and KTFO Manny at WW so he did have potential to hurt Floyd with a good counter, had he been able to land, but yeah JMM doesn't have WW power.

Floyd should probably get more credit for beating Marquez but he not only had weight over him but height and reach as well. He looked a lot bigger. I doubt there's a fighter in history that could beat Floyd giving him all the physical advantages. Pac-Marquez have looked the same size regardless of the weight.

Also Pac's win over Oscar shouldn't be rubbished either. He was a massive underdog and beat Oscar in an almost shocking fashion. His brilliant performance was just as big a factor as Oscar being "weight drained."

Two top wins for both.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Also Pac's win over Oscar shouldn't be rubbished either. He was a massive underdog and beat Oscar in an almost shocking fashion. His brilliant performance was just as big a factor as Oscar being "weight drained."

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It was a great win. I thought he was going to get killed. The president of the Philippines wanted to stop the fight from happening. There's no getting around it, it was a huge win that launched Pac into true super stardom.

It should also be noted that Pac ALSO outweighed JMM by 4lbs in their last fight (same as Floyd), we all know how that one ended.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

That's why in the future Pac will be seen as the greater fighter. In the end, boxing aficionados wont be looking at money generated or PPV figures, they'll just be judged by who they fought.

Unless Floyd actually faces - and beats - Pac. Then it all changes, of course.

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Well said. :)

Pac has had a great career.

Shame theres always a BUT that comes after that.

Floyds career so far is perfect and would have beat all mannys opponents.

Either way, I respect them both but manny cant erase his 4 life and death fights with marquez..floyd is like marquez but better in every department especially defense.

Like I said before, its better for mannys side that they dont fight and then they can always hold on to the excuse that manny would have beaten floyd.

I hope this fight happens in may so we can silence this issue once and for all!!

Trust me Floyd's career is far from perfect people will ask who he did not fight than who he did. I am not talking about Casamajor, Frietas or margarito either but Manny.

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Originally Posted by Master

I am not talking about Casamajor, Frietas or margarito either but Manny.

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Yeah but if we are going to put that question to Floyd's career, we must also put it to Manny's career.

It's a two sided coin: Floyd never fought his greatest challenge, Manny never fought his greatest challenge. No matter where people personally stand on it, the fact remains that both guys had the power to make the fight happen by swallowing their pride for the good of boxing, and both guys refused to do that.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Master

I am not talking about Casamajor, Frietas or margarito either but Manny.

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Yeah but if we are going to put that question to Floyd's career, we must also put it to Manny's career.

It's a two sided coin: Floyd never fought his greatest challenge, Manny never fought his greatest challenge. No matter where people personally stand on it, the fact remains that both guys had the power to make the fight happen by swallowing their pride for the good of boxing, and both guys refused to do that.

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Remember Floyd is the A sided fighter and so had the power to make it happen. ;)

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Master

I am not talking about Casamajor, Frietas or margarito either but Manny.

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Yeah but if we are going to put that question to Floyd's career, we must also put it to Manny's career.

It's a two sided coin: Floyd never fought his greatest challenge, Manny never fought his greatest challenge. No matter where people personally stand on it, the fact remains that both guys had the power to make the fight happen by swallowing their pride for the good of boxing, and both guys refused to do that.

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Remember Floyd is the A sided fighter and so had the power to make it happen. ;)

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The problem with that is bob still thinks he's the A side..that's why it wont happen.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Master

I am not talking about Casamajor, Frietas or margarito either but Manny.

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Yeah but if we are going to put that question to Floyd's career, we must also put it to Manny's career.

It's a two sided coin: Floyd never fought his greatest challenge, Manny never fought his greatest challenge. No matter where people personally stand on it, the fact remains that both guys had the power to make the fight happen by swallowing their pride for the good of boxing, and both guys refused to do that.

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Remember Floyd is the A sided fighter and so had the power to make it happen. ;)

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The problem with that is bob still thinks he's the A side..that's why it wont happen.

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So compromise and just make the fight happen. Floyd is favourite and if JMM can cause Manny problems then so will Floyd. Easy win to make the most money.

Roach: Without Pacquiao, Mayweather's Legacy is Ruined - Boxing News

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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

Roach: Without Pacquiao, Mayweather's Legacy is Ruined - Boxing News

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"He fought the same guy twice." Freddie Roach

That's laughable! Someone send Freddie a link to Pacquiao's boxrec page.