How many fights does Wlad have left... and who will those opponents be

Ok so Wlad is facing Jennings in a couple of months. I like Jennings, but honestly see very little chance he can beat Wlad. So what's left for Wlad after that? Given his current level of activity, roughly two fights a year, we'll probably see one more fight out of Wlad in 2015. What then? He turns 39 next month, so give him... say... a couple of more years before he calls it a career. That translates into 4 more fights. Who will those be?

Going through the current Ring rankings...

Povetkin he already mauled-wrestled-fouled-frustrated into a loss beat.... so he's out of the picture. Wilder's 2nd, but we pretty much all agree he needs one or two more fights before he's ready for the old, wily Wlad. Fury's # 3. Barring a devastating loss by Fury, that sounds like a match to make. Although we may see Fury-Wilder first, which would summarily end one of the fighter's chances to see Wlad before he goes away. Number 4 is Pulev, but he was just the latest speed bump in Wlad's highway toward retirement. Jennings is # 5, so check that box. Stiverne's # 6, and we all saw what happened vs. Wilder. After that.... it's just a blur of riff-raff.

So....... barring another Pianeta or Leapai dredged up by Wlad's camp..... or barring a 3rd fight with Thompson..... it would seem that the next logical opponents for Wlad would be:

Wilder
Fury
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CRAP! (This is much harder than I originally thought).

Ok so I just went through the current rankings by the different organizations, and came up with some more names.

Mike Perez (ranked # 2 WBC): Must I really comment on this? Mike Perez would be slaughtered in 3 rounds or less.

Lucas Browne: Hey I see he's ranked by the main orgs (WBC, WBA, IBF). Admittedly, I haven't seen him fight. Good record, although I don't see much in the way of opponents. Good size... you need height and reach to challenge Wlad.


Gotta go eat now.... be back with more.

The only one I'm really excited for is Wlad/Wilder. It's tough because you have a truly special ATG HW in Wlad at the top of the heap and a multitude of good to very good HW contenders to choose for opponents, and Wlad is so technically sound and doesn't take the risks that would normally allow a very good fighter to pull off an upset over a great fighter. Wlad's is just too big and strong for the small guys and too quick, athletic and technical for the big guys.

Wilder has the size, power and athleticism to give Wlad problems. Other than him, IMO Wlad has already destroyed the best guys in the division. A guy like Lucas Browne is way too slow and unskilled, he wouldn't last 4 rounds.

I'm about 50% on Wlad, which basically means I agree he's strong, athletic, and obviously at the top of the heap. The technically sound part again I'm about 50%. He knows how to use his size to his advantage... and has obviously learned a thing or two about protecting his chin. But at the same time IMO he lacks the technical skills that would allow him to fight dangerous punchers without making a stinker of a fight. Povetkin, Sultan, Haye. All crappy fights because Wlad used questionable tactics to win the fights. He's definitely a great HW, but again I don't know about the ATG part, because it's tough to gauge a fighter's greatness when the rest of the division has been so abysmal.

But back to speculating on Wlad's next opponents... I guess that pretty much leaves us with little other than possible fights against Wilder and/or Fury. There's other names floating around the rankings, but they're not even worth mentioning at this point.

Wilder has the credibility over Fury at this point. Fury is a dumb ass as he should have been at the very least padding his resume with 5, 6 7 knockouts since 2012. Big dude like that all young and shit, he should be fighting every 90 days and knocking bums out----

Wlad/Wilder is the fight right now----I think Stiverne scores a few KOs and redeems himself and may be eligible to fight the winner of wome of these fights. I think Stiv beats 2 opponents and then gets his title back.

Agreed on Fury. If he wants to make himself more relevant in the division, he needs to make short work of Christian Hammer (interesting combination of names there) and start making some real noise. None of these frigging HW's are nearly busy enough.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

But at the same time IMO he lacks the technical skills that would allow him to fight dangerous punchers without making a stinker of a fight.

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I think that's the definition of technical, though. The more technical a guy is, the less action you're going to get. His style of boxing from the outside and tying guys up on the inside has been used all throughout HW history, from Ali and Holmes even going back to Gene Tunney. Ray Robinson did it all the time to strong guys like Lamotta. Can't fault him for being big: the goal of every boxer is to learn how to use his physical and athletic gifts as effectively as possible with technique and strategy. He tailored his style to his body type, just like Tyson's was tailored to his.

When you're not getting hit and you're winning 95% of the rounds you fight, you can't fault the technique.

Like Holyfield: he's extraordinarily built, ripped & cut to be headed to 40yrs old. Based on what he's taking/eating: seems like he could fight till he's Hopkins' age.

We're still in the steroid era, that's the reason why these guys are fighting so long.

Only interesting fights around for him right now where there is a slight chance he could lose is Fury or Wilder. I'm not commenting on any of the prospects because anything can happen in heavyweight boxing and none of them have been tested yet

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

We're still in the steroid era, that's the reason why these guys are fighting so long.

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Has there ever been any real evidence that Wlad has used steroids, other than the fact that he keeps winning and always looks to be in great shape. Lol

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

We're still in the steroid era, that's the reason why these guys are fighting so long.

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Has there ever been any real evidence that Wlad has used steroids, other than the fact that he keeps winning and always looks to be in great shape. Lol

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I'm not singling Wlad out, it's just the times we're in and have been in for the last 30 years. The testing has never been adequate, steroids have been rampant in all sports and we'd be retarded to think they weren't and aren't rampant in boxing. He's nearly 40 and he looks better than he did when he was in his mid 20s. It's just not realistic.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

But at the same time IMO he lacks the technical skills that would allow him to fight dangerous punchers without making a stinker of a fight.

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I think that's the definition of technical, though. The more technical a guy is, the less action you're going to get. His style of boxing from the outside and tying guys up on the inside has been used all throughout HW history, from Ali and Holmes even going back to Gene Tunney. Ray Robinson did it all the time to strong guys like Lamotta. Can't fault him for being big: the goal of every boxer is to learn how to use his physical and athletic gifts as effectively as possible with technique and strategy. He tailored his style to his body type, just like Tyson's was tailored to his.

When you're not getting hit and you're winning 95% of the rounds you fight, you can't fault the technique.

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C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.

I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Wilder has the credibility over Fury at this point. Fury is a dumb ass as he should have been at the very least padding his resume with 5, 6 7 knockouts since 2012. Big dude like that all young and shit, he should be fighting every 90 days and knocking bums out----

Wlad/Wilder is the fight right now----I think Stiverne scores a few KOs and redeems himself and may be eligible to fight the winner of wome of these fights. I think Stiv beats 2 opponents and then gets his title back.

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Not Furys fault. He tried taking on supposedly one of the most dangerous fighters in the world only to have him baulk and pull out twice and waste a year of his career. Then chisora pulled out.

Wilder has the credibility in your eyes because you thought Stiverne was good.

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Wilder has the credibility over Fury at this point. Fury is a dumb ass as he should have been at the very least padding his resume with 5, 6 7 knockouts since 2012. Big dude like that all young and shit, he should be fighting every 90 days and knocking bums out----

Wlad/Wilder is the fight right now----I think Stiverne scores a few KOs and redeems himself and may be eligible to fight the winner of wome of these fights. I think Stiv beats 2 opponents and then gets his title back.

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Not Furys fault. He tried taking on supposedly one of the most dangerous fighters in the world only to have him baulk and pull out twice and waste a year of his career. Then chisora pulled out.

Wilder has the credibility in your eyes because you thought Stiverne was good.

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true I thought Stiv was good and I still think he's good, but Wilder fights like every 4 months, but Fury has had how many fihgts since 2012?

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Wilder has the credibility over Fury at this point. Fury is a dumb ass as he should have been at the very least padding his resume with 5, 6 7 knockouts since 2012. Big dude like that all young and shit, he should be fighting every 90 days and knocking bums out----

Wlad/Wilder is the fight right now----I think Stiverne scores a few KOs and redeems himself and may be eligible to fight the winner of wome of these fights. I think Stiv beats 2 opponents and then gets his title back.

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Not Furys fault. He tried taking on supposedly one of the most dangerous fighters in the world only to have him baulk and pull out twice and waste a year of his career. Then chisora pulled out.

Wilder has the credibility in your eyes because you thought Stiverne was good.

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true I thought Stiv was good and I still think he's good, but Wilder fights like every 4 months, but Fury has had how many fihgts since 2012?

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He had 3 pull out on him.

The level of opposition that Wilder had been facing was a joke. If. Tyson had been fighting them hed get shot the same as Wilder was so its not really anything to boast about how often he was fighting. If anything, he should have been fighting more often with the journeymen he was facing.

Wlad will fight Jenning, Fury/Wilder winner, Olympics gold and retire

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.

I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.

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I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.

I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.

Hmm, well Wlad probably is looking to unify the titles sooner rather than later and if all goes according to plan: Jennings, Wilder, Fury, certainly but then who knows: Glazkov, Tarver, Stiverne, Perez, Andy Ruiz Jr., Erkan Temper, Lucas Browne, Anthony Joshua

I'd say 3 more years, 6 more fights, he could easily do more though. Might see a few oldies dug up and reintroduced to the public: Valuev, Haye, Shannon Briggs :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.

I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.

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I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.

I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.

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No, you're right... you can't compare a big guy like Wlad to a Rigo. But there's been plenty of heavyweights in history who have exhibited good defensive boxing skills, none of which have involved the excessive mauling, leaning, or just pure inactivity (think Sultan fight) of Wlad. Let's take (prime) Tyson for example. Yeah... lot shorter than Wlad, but a big man nonetheless, with a lot of weight to carry around. How did Tyson avoid getting hit? Lots of head movement, side to side.... but also an aggressive offense. An aggressive offense is a good defense, as it puts the opponent on his heels, worring about not getting hit himself. Holmes was another one. His best defense was his ramrod jab, which constantly disrupted the other guy's rhythm. Holmes also had excellent foot movement and ring generalship. Young Ali was another. All these guys got hit their share, to be sure. But they weren't there strictly to trade. They knew when to engage. Wlad is just TOO cautious for many people's liking. Maybe those KO's early in his career did a number on his psyche.... I don't know. He gives the impression of fighting scared, unless of course the opponent is a Francesco Pianeta, whereupon Wlad just cruises his way through.

I'm not saying the guy couldn't stand to be more exciting, I just don't think being technical has much to do with being exciting. Tyson is a great but rare example of a guy who's highly technical style actually produced a lot of excitement. His body type necessitated a lot of head movement because, like Joe Frazier, he was constantly trying to bullrush and get inside on taller guys with longer reach, who could hit him from a distance that he couldn't hit them. The greatest defence for a pure boxer was always to control the distance with great footwork, and Wlad has seemingly mastered that so you have to give him his props.

I get the excitement thing though, I think he often grabs too much and doesn't press hard enough at times and is essentially too cautious, but I've seen all the great boxing HW's do the same thing at one point or another.

Yeah he fought REAL scared vs Pulev :rolleyes:

Always with the comparisons to Tyson....newsflash Wlad is 6'6, he's NOT going to have success fighting like Tyson. Wlad fights in the manner that makes him the most successful, and he's KO'd more boxers than Tyson did doing it. Wlad fights smart and this is why we're still talking about him being champion rather than him being retired because he kept trying to force something that didn't work.

Everyone brings up hugging and clinching and mauling.....did you guys forget a fella named Evander Holyfield??? He kinda sorta maybe went his entire career ramming his forehead through the guard of his opponents and winning tedious fights? Did we forget that guy??? Only Evander didn't KO near as many people as Wlad does. In the heavyweight division right now Wlad is the 1992 Dream Team and everyone else is Angola.....he's fighting very technically, he's winning by KO, and the fights aren't close....sorry he's not sorry because he's such a damn good boxer.


You guys think boring and that's fine....I don't I see how it works hit and don't get hit in return....if boxing truly is "the sweet science" then Wlad is not just Dr. Steelhammer, he's PROFESSOR Steelhammer

Wlad is one of the greatest HW's of all time, there's no getting around it. He's fought every kind of style and body type you can think of and beat them all without taking much damage. My main knock on him is that he's notoriously been boring when most eyes were on him, like the Ibragimov fight in MSG or the Haye fight. I know Haye and Ibragimov were passive and were also at fault for making the fights boring, but Wlad has to realize he's the big name, it's his show and it's up to him to make a statement when it counts.

He's one of the best HW technicians of all time and has power in both hands to boot.

Lyle:

Ok so you're not Mr. Objectivity when it comes to Wlad. Everybody knows that.

Nobody said he fights scared against all opponents. Quit putting words into other people's mouths. He only fights scared against those precious few opponents that can bang and come into the ring with the right attitude (wanting to knock the Doctor's head off).

Also.... Tyson wasn't the only comparison, just the one you choose to harp on because of the vast height difference. Again, don't pick and choose. Look at the entire underlying message before you respond defensively. Yes, Holyfield was a headbutter. Didn't like that aspect about him at all. But did you just ignore the other examples of heavyweight defensive fighters who did not have to resort to mauling, clinching and fouling? Out of sheer terror??

Surely you can do better than that.

The Ibragimov fight, the Haye fight...Wlad wasn't the one running, ducking, diving to the canvas. Wlad came in both of those fights ready to fight, his opponents did not. Sultan Ibragimov should have been disqualified for not throwing any punches, and David Haye after all that shit talk 4 years of it points to his fucking pinky toe and says "See, I'm brave to even step in the ring" neither of them came to win, neither came to give Wlad a fight, they came to get paid end of discussion.

You look at Wlad vs Chagaev, and it was pure domination. Short notice fight, against a southpaw, should have been a unification bout if not for Sauerland's meddling and Wlad stopped Ruslan, who was undefeated at the time.


No, not every fight Wlad has been in is amazing, the Ibragimov fight sucked, the Haye fight sucked, the Povetkin fight sucked, but more often than not Wlad dominates and he wins by KO....what more could you ask for? You guys wish to see Wlad put himself in dangerous situations needlessly.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

The Ibragimov fight, the Haye fight...Wlad wasn't the one running, ducking, diving to the canvas. Wlad came in both of those fights ready to fight, his opponents did not. Sultan Ibragimov should have been disqualified for not throwing any punches, and David Haye after all that shit talk 4 years of it points to his fucking pinky toe and says "See, I'm brave to even step in the ring" neither of them came to win, neither came to give Wlad a fight, they came to get paid end of discussion.

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For sure, both guys fought scared to death of Wlad. Especially Haye, who probably had the most shameful, disappointing performance ever after all the crap he talked.

I just think in those instances, if you're the star of the show you can't let an opponent drag you down and make you look bad. Sometimes that means taking risks you wouldn't normally take. I would have liked to have seen him step it up more and try harder to get those guys out of there. Even Manny Stewart was going crazy in the corner during the Sultan fight.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

The Ibragimov fight, the Haye fight...Wlad wasn't the one running, ducking, diving to the canvas. Wlad came in both of those fights ready to fight, his opponents did not. Sultan Ibragimov should have been disqualified for not throwing any punches, and David Haye after all that shit talk 4 years of it points to his fucking pinky toe and says "See, I'm brave to even step in the ring" neither of them came to win, neither came to give Wlad a fight, they came to get paid end of discussion.

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For sure, both guys fought scared to death of Wlad. Especially Haye, who probably had the most shameful, disappointing performance ever after all the crap he talked.

I just think in those instances, if you're the star of the show you can't let an opponent drag you down and make you look bad. Sometimes that means taking risks you wouldn't normally take. I would have liked to have seen him step it up more and try harder to get those guys out of there. Even Manny Stewart was going crazy in the corner during the Sultan fight.

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Fair enough, but at the same time Wlad wins round after round after round...yes the fight is boring, the result not so much because Wlad wins rounds then he wins the fight. Put yourself in David Haye's shoes (be careful not to hurt your toe doing it).....or Sultan's shoes....what would you as those fighters want to see Wlad do? You'd want him to throw wild and leave an opening for a big counter punch right? He never gave them a chance of winning by fighting as he did and they never gave themselves a chance of winning fighting the way they did....path of least resistance for both Wlad and his opponents really. There was only 1 guy boxing in those fights and that was Wlad.

You're absolutely right in that everyone wanted a big KO one way or another, we as fans always want that, and if we didn't get that we wanted action...Sultan and Haye failed to deliver anything....Wlad did his part, but was not pressed into doing anything extra. Had Sultan made a charge and tried to engage Wlad would have KO'd him same with Haye.

No doubt, Haye was sitting back hoping to land a one-punch KO so for Wlad to open up more he was definitely putting his win in jeopardy that he didn't need to. It's not something I would recommend him do for no reason, but in that fight maybe risking that to get an exciting KO finish would have been worth it. I'm a big Mayweather guy, but I'll always say he fucked up in the Baldomir fight because he put on a shit performance when all eyes were on him. Didn't matter in the end because he got the DLH fight and became a superstar, but it could have set him back if he didn't have that mega fight on the horizon.

In the end, Wlad does what's best for him, which is what every boxer should be doing. What fans want runs in direct contrast to what an elite boxer wants. A boxer wants to win a fight as easy a possible and take as little damage as possible, and fans want to see drama, violence, back and forth brawling, ect. It's like those game shows where someone wins a shit load of money and the host says "you can keep it or you can risk it all for more." Nobody in the crowd wants them to take the money and leave because there's no excitement and drama there, even though the person probably should play it safe. So yeah I can never fault a guy for taking the path of least resistance because it's a tough sport.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

The Ibragimov fight, the Haye fight...Wlad wasn't the one running, ducking, diving to the canvas. Wlad came in both of those fights ready to fight, his opponents did not. Sultan Ibragimov should have been disqualified for not throwing any punches, and David Haye after all that shit talk 4 years of it points to his fucking pinky toe and says "See, I'm brave to even step in the ring" neither of them came to win, neither came to give Wlad a fight, they came to get paid end of discussion.

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For sure, both guys fought scared to death of Wlad. Especially Haye, who probably had the most shameful, disappointing performance ever after all the crap he talked.

I just think in those instances, if you're the star of the show you can't let an opponent drag you down and make you look bad. Sometimes that means taking risks you wouldn't normally take. I would have liked to have seen him step it up more and try harder to get those guys out of there. Even Manny Stewart was going crazy in the corner during the Sultan fight.

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This has always been my point as well. You think I applaud either Sultan or Haye for their respective... (cough)... efforts? Hell no. Especially Haye, who after all his huge mouth running non-stop, turned in a disgraceful performance and then blamed his big toe. But the name of the game is boxing.... not Twelve Rounds of Pawing. If Wlad, as heavyweight champion of the world, cannot devise a way to engage a Sultan without exposing his fragile chin.... and thus decides to return Sultan's pawing with more of his own.... then he's not as technical as you are all making him out to be. He's the frigging HW champion of the world, for chrissakes! Good point about Manny, Bean. When even Wlad's corner is imploring for him to do something besides jabbing from a safe distance.... you know something's up.

Manny was yelling and telling Wlad what to do, but in the end if Wlad got sparked that's on Wlad not Manny. Wlad is the one in the ring, Wlad is the one taking the punches, Wlad is the one hearing it from the fans....so it's Wlad's call on what's best for him.

Sultan gave a very small window for Wlad to land punches, he spent the entirety of the fight hunched over in a crouch loaded up for a huge left hand which Wlad never allowed him to throw because Wlad didn't overreach trying for a KO. Sultan simply didn't want to fight and Wlad couldn't force him to.

Stiverne
Wilder
Fury
Arreola
Jennings (for sure)

Regardless of the win loss, he will most likely wrap up with having fought all of these men.

If Fury/Wilder does not happen for the WBC scrap after Wlad fights Jennings, he will have an off fight with Briggs and then still fight the rest of them.

I see another 2 and 1/2 years before he retires... two fights this year, and two to three for next year depending on how easy the fights are.

But with soft punchers like Jennings and Arreola on the list, then he can get it done within 2 and 1/2 years.

This is as good a guess as any... and I certainly hope he doesn't retire before facing at least these opponents. Actually, what I really hope is that Wilder gets another 2-3 good fights under his belt.... and then faces Wlad. Hopefully Wlad won't suddenly decide there's something else he needs to be doing, and retire.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

This is as good a guess as any... and I certainly hope he doesn't retire before facing at least these opponents. Actually, what I really hope is that Wilder gets another 2-3 good fights under his belt.... and then faces Wlad. Hopefully Wlad won't suddenly decide there's something else he needs to be doing, and retire.

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Why would Wilder need 2-3 good fights before fighting Wlad??? Regardless Wlad ain't going anywhere without unifying the belts

Personally I'd rather have Wilder/Wlad right now, and then the winner fight Fury (or Wlad/Fury now, winner fight Wilder). It kind of sucks to have Wilder and Fury fight, because they are currently the two most interesting matches for Wlad and the loser won't get to fight Wlad for another few years, if ever.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Personally I'd rather have Wilder/Wlad right now, and then the winner fight Fury (or Wlad/Fury now, winner fight Wilder). It kind of sucks to have Wilder and Fury fight, because they are currently the two most interesting matches for Wlad and the loser won't get to fight Wlad for another few years, if ever.

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I don't believe for one second that Fury will fight Wilder...Fury will try to demand Wlad fight him because providing Fury beats Hammer then Fury becomes the WBO mandatory. I reckon Fury will lawyer up and try to stop Wlad from unifying the titles, OR the best result for Fury would be, take your time, allow Wlad to unify and then go fight Wlad (or Wilder) for ALL of the belts.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.

I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.

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I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.

I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.

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No, you're right... you can't compare a big guy like Wlad to a Rigo. But there's been plenty of heavyweights in history who have exhibited good defensive boxing skills, none of which have involved the excessive mauling, leaning, or just pure inactivity (think Sultan fight) of Wlad. Let's take (prime) Tyson for example. Yeah... lot shorter than Wlad, but a big man nonetheless, with a lot of weight to carry around. How did Tyson avoid getting hit? Lots of head movement, side to side.... but also an aggressive offense. An aggressive offense is a good defense, as it puts the opponent on his heels, worring about not getting hit himself. Holmes was another one. His best defense was his ramrod jab, which constantly disrupted the other guy's rhythm. Holmes also had excellent foot movement and ring generalship. Young Ali was another. All these guys got hit their share, to be sure. But they weren't there strictly to trade. They knew when to engage. Wlad is just TOO cautious for many people's liking. Maybe those KO's early in his career did a number on his psyche.... I don't know. He gives the impression of fighting scared, unless of course the opponent is a Francesco Pianeta, whereupon Wlad just cruises his way through.

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You're right; A 240lb Ike Ibeabuchi averaged 80+ punches per round- damn near 970+ by his damn self- that shit is called will power. A Wladimir Clinchko doesn't have that dog in him like his older bro. Hit Vitali hard- he's gotta get back or try...His ripped up face compliments of Lennox bares him witness.
But baby bro?
Wlad's got clinchitis.
Boxers aka Fighters like Ali or Holmes may clinch, may cover up, may return fire- when they are under fire..

But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.
Doesnt make him a bad guy, just means he will only throw his bombs...when the coast is clear bwaahaaaa!;D

Ike Ibeabuchi probably suffered from CTE due to the war he had with Tua and Ibeabuchi is awaiting deportation back to Nigeria.....meanwhile Wlad is an ALL-TIME GREAT Heavyweight Champion.


But I digress

Wlad's going keep fighting until the wheels fall off.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

C'mon Bean... technical doesn't necessarily mean Wlad's style. Lots of fighters, including heavyweights, have exhibited technical skills on defense that result in their not getting hit that much. Foot movement, moving in and out, head movement, leaning back from hooks, blocking shots, using timing and counterpunching, etc, etc, etc. Particularly at the lower weights. Wlad's idea of defense, especially when facing a strong puncher, is to maul, tie up, and lean on these guys throughout the whole fight. Don't tell me you thought the Povetkin fight was a good fight for Wlad (or the fans). Wlad loses fans everytime he has a fight like that.

I'm not saying Wlad has to allow himself to get hit. I'm just saying there's other types of techniques he could use, and probably would use, if he were less afraid of The Big Bang. Which in turn would result in more fan-friendly fights, and probably a larger fan base particularly in the U.S.

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I think the key thing you said there was the "particularly at lower weights" part. Take (arguably) the most technical guy in the sport right now, Rigo and compare him to Wlad. Obviously the difference is one guy is 5'4'' and around 130lbs (fight night) and the other guy is 6'6'', 250lbs with a bodybuilder's physique, and that muscle mass eats up a ton of oxygen. Both guys have have to fight the same length of time, 12 rounds or less, so it's not possible for Wlad to fight the same way as a smaller guy, he's carrying around about 100 extra pounds. So again you have to go back to fighting to someone's body type: Wlad's responsibility is to avoid getting hit in a way that will not burn him out and leave him vulnerable in the mid to late rounds (like earlier in his career) and that's what he has done so you have to respect that.

I'm not saying he's exciting, I'm saying he's technically brilliant for a heavyweight. It's not luck that he isn't taking much punishment out there. And people say "oh he's not good, he's just big and tall". If that's all it took, Tye Fields would have been a dominant champ for the last 15 years, or Valuev would still be around.

---

No, you're right... you can't compare a big guy like Wlad to a Rigo. But there's been plenty of heavyweights in history who have exhibited good defensive boxing skills, none of which have involved the excessive mauling, leaning, or just pure inactivity (think Sultan fight) of Wlad. Let's take (prime) Tyson for example. Yeah... lot shorter than Wlad, but a big man nonetheless, with a lot of weight to carry around. How did Tyson avoid getting hit? Lots of head movement, side to side.... but also an aggressive offense. An aggressive offense is a good defense, as it puts the opponent on his heels, worring about not getting hit himself. Holmes was another one. His best defense was his ramrod jab, which constantly disrupted the other guy's rhythm. Holmes also had excellent foot movement and ring generalship. Young Ali was another. All these guys got hit their share, to be sure. But they weren't there strictly to trade. They knew when to engage. Wlad is just TOO cautious for many people's liking. Maybe those KO's early in his career did a number on his psyche.... I don't know. He gives the impression of fighting scared, unless of course the opponent is a Francesco Pianeta, whereupon Wlad just cruises his way through.

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You're right; A 240lb Ike Ibeabuchi averaged 80+ punches per round- damn near 970+ by his damn self- that shit is called will power. A Wladimir Clinchko doesn't have that dog in him like his older bro. Hit Vitali hard- he's gotta get back or try...His ripped up face compliments of Lennox bares him witness.
But baby bro?
Wlad's got clinchitis.
Boxers aka Fighters like Ali or Holmes may clinch, may cover up, may return fire- when they are under fire..

But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.
Doesnt make him a bad guy, just means he will only throw his bombs...when the coast is clear bwaahaaaa!;D

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:appl:


There you go.

Maybe because someone else said it, it will be more acceptable..... 'cause everybody knows I'm just a big ol' Wlad hater and have never given him any credit for anything.

Ever.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

But everytime Wlad is under fire...its his instinct. He can't return fire under fire- aint never done it will never do it.

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He tried that, and it got him KTFO vs Sanders ;D

Ibeabuchi and Tuaman threw a ton of punches, which is exhausting and they showed a ton of heart, but they were standing still. They weren't constantly moving their feet, ducking, dodging, ect, which will wear out a big man a lot quicker. They basically both went 12 rounds on the heavy bag, and from what I've read about Ibeabuchi suffering brain damage and going crazy after that fight, it probably wasn't the best idea.

It's kind of getting beat into the ground, if people want to love or hate Wlad, that's cool with me. But if you want to boil it all down, if I'm a heavyweight boxer... I want to be Wlad. No brain damage, no mangled face, huge following, undisputed #1 HW in the world, big money every fight, hot Hollywood actress wife... this guy is doing it right.