If you were GGG would you keep milking it at middleweight or step up and catch ward at the worst time of his career?
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If you were GGG would you keep milking it at middleweight or step up and catch ward at the worst time of his career?
That is hugely disrespectful considering Golovkins run and attitude. Everyone should avoid Ward until he earns some kudos again.
He's a small MW. Why should he give up height,reach,size and weight to fight at SMW. IMO , there's more chance of him going down to a catchweight with Canelo ( if Canelo dares) or go down to LMW to fight Floyd.
Simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
For greatness.
He would get more kudos for beating ward than canelo.
Catchweight is possible even if ward isn't a main attraction for ticket sales GGG would attract the numbers.
I agree with Beanz in that there is absolutely no motivation for him to move up and fight Ward until Ward comes and back reestablishes himself as the man at 168, because right now his career is still on hiatus and he's been stripped of his belts and ranking. And before he moves up, I'd like to see him clean out his division first, which includes unifying the titles (IMO Cotto will vacate the belt and go back to 154 as opposed to fighting GGG, so he'll probably have to do it against someone else). I'd still love to see him in there with Kid Chocolate and the winner of Lemieux/N'Dam.
I think he'd be better off trying to lure Froch into a fight personally.
Ward is a horrible style match up for GGG. I see Ward as the only guy under 175 who can beat GGG right now. I agree that GGG is not a large middleweight and would be best served to remain at 160 and below for the foreseeable future.
You see what you're placing value on is belts? You have to see this don't you? Opponents matter, not belts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Let me give you an example
Looking not at randomP4P lists but only year end Ring magazine P4P lists Floyd is scheduled to fight his 11th different opponent that was ranked in the top 10 at one point P4P.
GGG is only 5 years younger. He has not fought one man deserving of top 10 consideration. And you are not talking about him fighting a man deserving of top 10 consideration.
Floyd is scheduled to fight his 14th or 15th reigning champion. GGG has fought 0. I believe in this era when everyone has a championship only 2 of his opponents have ever even held a championship. Ouma who was washed up and 5 years removed from when he carried a belt in a lower class and Gaele who held a belt for about 5 minutes. I could be wrong about this there are so many trinket holders but the point remains.
The argument can be made "well Andre doesn't have a belt either". That is well and good but Andre has proven he can fight. Lee has not, Quillen has not, Cotto is not a middleweight. You're talking about him picking up another belt from another non champion.
Just answer this. What helps GGGs historical standing more, 5 more fights against unproven fighters or one fight against Ward?
No one wants to fight ward and they just want to live in this bubble of excuses:-
"He cant sell tickets"
"He has no belts"
"He is too inactive"
"He has to prove himself again"
There's no doubt that GGG is doing a great job but its pretty obvious they want no part of andre.
GGG is cleaning up the middleweights and making money and establishing his legacy. That is the nature of the game. When he is good and ready he will seek bigger challenges.
It is not easy jumping up in weight and fighting Ward and Froch.
If you are bored of GGG then I suggest you watch another sport. He dismantles top fighters and it is artistic, not laboured or boring.
Who is Andre Ward? Never heard of him.
The middle weight maybe short of talent,! but GGG has done all asked and beat all his opponents,
he really can't do more than that can HE.!
Boxing fans are a strange bunch, nothing is ever good enough nobody is perfect, but in ring general
ship GGG is pretty much perfection in my eyes.;)
So its fair that we should apply that rule to every boxer then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
So its okay to pick and choose for every fighter?
No one is knocking GGG ability I just think its very unfair to knock ward as if he is not a serious and viable option.
GGG will always be a fan favourite because he has that style that wants to fight etc but Ward is the complete opposite and thats why their styles would make a great fight.
Ok. So say he fights Ward and beats Ward. what will people say? They'll say "Ward isn't the fighter he was" or "Ward was ring rusty". It's a lose-lose. Ward needs to re-establish himself.(btw what happened to this "Ward fighting March-April time and 3 more times this year bollocks!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYou see what you're placing value on is belts? You have to see this don't you? Opponents matter, not belts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Let me give you an example
Looking not at randomP4P lists but only year end Ring magazine P4P lists Floyd is scheduled to fight his 11th different opponent that was ranked in the top 10 at one point P4P.
GGG is only 5 years younger. He has not fought one man deserving of top 10 consideration. And you are not talking about him fighting a man deserving of top 10 consideration.
Floyd is scheduled to fight his 14th or 15th reigning champion. GGG has fought 0. I believe in this era when everyone has a championship only 2 of his opponents have ever even held a championship. Ouma who was washed up and 5 years removed from when he carried a belt in a lower class and Gaele who held a belt for about 5 minutes. I could be wrong about this there are so many trinket holders but the point remains.
The argument can be made "well Andre doesn't have a belt either". That is well and good but Andre has proven he can fight. Lee has not, Quillen has not, Cotto is not a middleweight. You're talking about him picking up another belt from another non champion.
Just answer this. What helps GGGs historical standing more, 5 more fights against unproven fighters or one fight against Ward?
No opponent has been named , probably because he's finding it difficult to get a credible opponent who is not too dangerous. Forget about Ward-GGG for now. Ward has his own shit to sort out!
Ps. A bit harsh calling the likes of Geale and Murray unproven. If the other top MW's keep ducking him, what's he to do?
Id probably take ward of three years ago but now id probably lean towards ggg on pressure
I would love to see a Sergio Martinez 4 years ago v GGG.Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
It's not Golovkin's fault that Cotto is not a middleweight and prevented him ripping the Lineal title off Martinez. Where are all the calls for Cotto to face GGG?
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Some people make me laugh , do we regard Marvin Hagler's title reign as him milking the MW division ?
GGG is a MW if he wants to fight at that weight then so be it , he is a wonderful exciting fighter. As for Ward , he is inactive , he is boring , and personally I could care less if he never fights again.
Canelo would be a good fight for GGG , after Cotto. As for Martin Murray he could beat both Abrahams and Smith on the same night at SMW.
You don't have to sell me on how useless belts are: I know. I often forget who holds what belt because it usually doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
To be fair, the WBC MW Belt IS the linear championship and collecting all the belts is essentially cleaning out your division, even though everyone regards GGG as the #1 MW by a large stretch.
Yeah, a victory over Ward would be great for his legacy, but I don't see how I was wrong by asserting that Ward needs to come back and reassert himself before GGG would go up to fight him. Right now, Ward is unranked and has lost the position he fought so hard for (which now has seemingly fell back to Froch). If GGG fights Ward tomorrow and beats his ass, people will say "ohh I think Ward is washed up, the inactivity killed him, ect."
Conversely, if he lets Ward come back and reassert himself as the top 168lber and one of the p4p best in the world and THEN you go up and beat him, it improves your legacy ten-fold.
There seem to be a lot of people who are accusing GGG of fighting soft opposition, but what can you do when guys won't get in the ring with you? You can't wait outside their house and fight them on the street, they actually need to agree to fight you.
He should fight Abraham up at 168 and then Bundrage down at 154 whilst waiting for Cotto to retire and then come back to middleweight. He could knock both of those two out and make a big spalsh amongst boxing historians but it will not give him exposure and cash. He can't win can he?
Listen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
Some people make me laugh , do we regard Marvin Hagler's title reign as him milking the MW division ?
GGG is a MW if he wants to fight at that weight then so be it , he is a wonderful exciting fighter. As for Ward , he is inactive , he is boring , and personally I could care less if he never fights again.
Canelo would be a good fight for GGG , after Cotto. As for Martin Murray he could beat both Abrahams and Smith on the same night at SMW.
Everyone likes different fighters.
Its fairly obvious that ward isn't that appreciated here regardless of his inactivity.
GGG fighting cotto next is a great money move and we all appreciate that it's a business etc but getting a fight with canelo is probably not going to happen.
Can anyone see cotto beating GGG?
As a fan, I want to see the best fights and I think that no matter how boring ward may be to others he will completely outclass GGG and that is the next big superfight I want to see..
Let GGG keep building his already increasing fan base and "best thing since tyson" quotes as the road should lead to ward..and I cant wait.
Ward has now moved into the realms of the 'unknown' as he has been so inactive.
If Ward is anything like he was 4 years ago, I don't think Golovkin can beat him.
As good as Golovkin is, he would be jumping up at the same time as meeting the best opponent he's ever fought & that's a tough ask.
Gotta agree with beanflicker, here. How is it that Ward claims the belts in his division, then never fights outside of oakland, won't go up to 175, wont cut weight to 160, opts for a seat in the commentators booth... fights edwin rodriguez after a year and then sits out with the whole division on hold rather just fighting and just finishing off his contract. Now after another year and half in the shadows of inactivity.... he's been stripped of his ring title and ranking but he's ready to fight now so someone should just force the doing the work in his own division 8lbs below, that ward wasn't doing in his, to come up in wait and hand him a golden opportunity? Despite the fact that GGG is a smaller middleweight, that's asking a bit much in my opinion as it is time for the primadonna ward, to start reminding everyone why he even deserves opportunities in his own division and make concessions so that fights can happen and he can be ranked again. But he only wants the big fights because hes bucking for retirement money. Boxing may be a hobby to ward now, but to a lot of other fighters its still their life and their dedication to it alone speaks volume over what ward has shown us since the dawson fight.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with GGG fighting all the gatekeepers in the world. I'm saying there is something seriously f'd about what you all are saying.
It has gone from GGG shouldn't fight Ward because he needs to clean out 160 and he needs to build his name to GGG shouldn't fight Ward because he needs to clean out 160 and Ward needs to build his name. You people can't see the comedy in that? Please tell me you see the glaring problem?!
Clean out clean out clean out, they aren't going to fight him! Let me repeat, they aren't going to fight him. One more time so people get it, they aren't going to fight him! So then there is the "what can he do if they won't fight him?" It's obvious, he can fight the fighters that are willing. Ward is willing. And anyone that believes the 31 year Ward is washed up is a moron.
I'm not saying GGG has to move up, although he said he would for Chavez so it's a bit of a bitch move to not be willing for Ward. And I'm not saying GGG has to fight him next. But he damn well should be looking in his direction. Because only looking at no hopers is weak.
I would be a fan of GGG if he would only start fighting guys on his level. He is 33 years before his next fight and he hasn't fought one champion for crying out loud. Not one! And you all don't want him to fight the guy on his level or a champion. Get the belts get the belts get belts, the belts are meaningless.
I want to see GGG v Ward but Id prefer to see it at a catchweight and in a neutral venue.Quote:
Originally Posted by impListen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
Some people make me laugh , do we regard Marvin Hagler's title reign as him milking the MW division ?
GGG is a MW if he wants to fight at that weight then so be it , he is a wonderful exciting fighter. As for Ward , he is inactive , he is boring , and personally I could care less if he never fights again.
Canelo would be a good fight for GGG , after Cotto. As for Martin Murray he could beat both Abrahams and Smith on the same night at SMW.
Everyone likes different fighters.
Its fairly obvious that ward isn't that appreciated here regardless of his inactivity.
GGG fighting cotto next is a great money move and we all appreciate that it's a business etc but getting a fight with canelo is probably not going to happen.
Can anyone see cotto beating GGG?
As a fan, I want to see the best fights and I think that no matter how boring ward may be to others he will completely outclass GGG and that is the next big superfight I want to see..
Let GGG keep building his already increasing fan base and "best thing since tyson" quotes as the road should lead to ward..and I cant wait.
All your criticisms of GGG though can also be applied to Ward. Why is he still at 168? Why isnt he fighting the best at 175? Why is he hoping to get a middleweight up to 168 to fight?
I said that in another thread that every bloody fighter wants to fight Chavez jr!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
So GGG can call out a fat weed smoker like Chavez jr and move up in weight but for ward he's just not ready yet...
I love carl froch but even he honestly said he would loose to ward again!
Froch knows how good ward is and when a warrior like froch wont attempt to avenge his only other loss then people need to pay attention.
Ward might actually beat ggg by hugging him the whole fight.
Hey, it's the sign of the times; no such thing as fighting at a particular weight these days. Move up, move down, catchweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
Some people make me laugh , do we regard Marvin Hagler's title reign as him milking the MW division ?
GGG is a MW if he wants to fight at that weight then so be it , he is a wonderful exciting fighter. As for Ward , he is inactive , he is boring , and personally I could care less if he never fights again.
Canelo would be a good fight for GGG , after Cotto. As for Martin Murray he could beat both Abrahams and Smith on the same night at SMW.
I remember Hopkins taking a lot of stuff for fighting that joke Morrade Hakkar- -since then he has moved up & fought.
But looking back on it: Fighting a mandatory in Hakkar helped him to cement a 20 fight legacy as a MW champ.
What a shame GGG may have to face the same selfish-fan mindset because he may dare to do what Hopkins, Haglar & Monzon did: clean out the house. He has to fight where we tell him to fight at. he has to move up or down & no one else can or should move to the once glorified weight class: Middle Weight Champ of the world.
No, there is a glaring difference. An absolutely gigantic difference. The only difference that matters. Ward has fought great fighters, GGG has not! That is all that matters!Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeI want to see GGG v Ward but Id prefer to see it at a catchweight and in a neutral venue.Quote:
Originally Posted by impListen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
Some people make me laugh , do we regard Marvin Hagler's title reign as him milking the MW division ?
GGG is a MW if he wants to fight at that weight then so be it , he is a wonderful exciting fighter. As for Ward , he is inactive , he is boring , and personally I could care less if he never fights again.
Canelo would be a good fight for GGG , after Cotto. As for Martin Murray he could beat both Abrahams and Smith on the same night at SMW.
Everyone likes different fighters.
Its fairly obvious that ward isn't that appreciated here regardless of his inactivity.
GGG fighting cotto next is a great money move and we all appreciate that it's a business etc but getting a fight with canelo is probably not going to happen.
Can anyone see cotto beating GGG?
As a fan, I want to see the best fights and I think that no matter how boring ward may be to others he will completely outclass GGG and that is the next big superfight I want to see..
Let GGG keep building his already increasing fan base and "best thing since tyson" quotes as the road should lead to ward..and I cant wait.
All your criticisms of GGG though can also be applied to Ward. Why is he still at 168? Why isnt he fighting the best at 175? Why is he hoping to get a middleweight up to 168 to fight?
Ward has only fought Good fighters because of the super six. He is not entitled to anything. It seems like some people are suggesting that Ward is the only way Golvkin can gain any credibility. That is utter nonsense and can only be justified if you dismiss Murray as a nobody. After his fights against Sturm, Martinez and now GGG if you are dismissing Murray, you have a completely different Idea than most of what a good fighter looks like.
http://youtu.be/bPws2hPKGbE
Wonder what fighters would make up the middleweight super six if there was one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbeanz
In the super middleweight super six no one knew who would win but if there was a middleweight version its pretty obvious.
The title of the thread is Andre Ward vs GGG, and frankly, I'm a much bigger fan of GGG at this point. The difference in activity level is huge, regardless of the reasons, and it's difficult for me to be a fan of a fighter with the crass inactivity of Ward. If GGG were to move up and face Ward, who's to know. Ward is a tremendously skilled boxer, and the naturally bigger man. He's got some good notches on his belt, but I still find him extremely boring to watch. I much prefer GGG's style. Do I think GGG needs Ward? No. He just needs to continue fighting all comers at 160 and do what he does best. Why move up and challenge a Ward who IMO has lost a lot of his luster by being so inactive?
GGG is part of the future, I'm not sure I've seen such quick and powerful hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
About to be 33, never once fought a champion. But he fights often so nobody cares (smh)
I'm probably one of the very few fans who desperately wants to see GGG vs Ward, but I want a fair fight in even conditions:
1. - weight-class - 160 Lb
2. - meeting place - Karaganda, Kazakhstan
3. - all three judges and the referee from Kazakhstan as well.
For those saying clean out 160 clean out 160, they repeated again today on social media they want to go to 168 to fight Chavez. It's really sort of embarrassing that people are supporting this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Well what are his alternatives? All of you doubting Thomas's keep saying or inferring the same thing w/o a shred of evidence to support it.
Not only is he blamed for a bunch of fake champions not wanting to fight him but now he is being blamed for the exact same thing everybody else has been doing for years. You know it is prize fighting and all of these other guys who provide the other half of the prize in his division wet the bed every time his name comes up. He practically baby sat his number one contender to get some rounds in.
Why wouldn't he fight Chavez for an entry to 168? Btw it remains to be seen if that spoiled child can even make 168 but he's yapping off in social media how he would knock the Kazak out. What the hell the guy cant get respect by steamrolling his own division he might as well crunch one of the million dollar babies. Ironically he'd finally become a somebody by knocking out a nobody.
The only reason there's talk of a Chavez fight is cos Chavez is talking it up, with Million Dollar bets! GGG's adviser just said "Yeah, he accepts the bet." Chavez probably won't fight Fonfara, Because Arum won't let him, let alone GGG. How can GGG fight Ward? (btw , he's never said he wouldn't.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Ward is supposed to fight late March/early April, we've heard fuck all about an opponent yet. Wtf is GGG supposed to do, wait around till Ward is ready?
Ward won't be fighting GGG straight off - FACT. so what's wrong with GGG getting on with his career , staying active and When Princess Ward is ready, talk about it then.
Ward needs GGG more than the other way round, infact Ward needs to fight anyone respectable!
GGG is a small MW, if he goes to any weight , it should be either catchweight to KO Canelo (if Oscar has the Cojones to put Canelo in there.), or LMW to fight Floyd. Don't they tick your Precious "Greatness." box?
You know you're my boy but in this case you need to work on your reading comprehension. I have no problem with GGG beating on a division that is beneath him. I've said that. If he wants to be a guy who we wonder what he could have done that's fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Well what are his alternatives? All of you doubting Thomas's keep saying or inferring the same thing w/o a shred of evidence to support it.
Not only is he blamed for a bunch of fake champions not wanting to fight him but now he is being blamed for the exact same thing everybody else has been doing for years. You know it is prize fighting and all of these other guys who provide the other half of the prize in his division wet the bed every time his name comes up. He practically baby sat his number one contender to get some rounds in.
Why wouldn't he fight Chavez for an entry to 168? Btw it remains to be seen if that spoiled child can even make 168 but he's yapping off in social media how he would knock the Kazak out. What the hell the guy cant get respect by steamrolling his own division he might as well crunch one of the million dollar babies. Ironically he'd finally become a somebody by knocking out a nobody.
My problem is with fans making 1000 excuses.
"He's got to clean out 160" well then what about all the 154lb fighters he's fought?
"he shouldn't have to move up"they've said on numerous occasions including just yesterday that they are willing to move up for bad fighters, why not good fighters?
I have no problem with GGG, you can find me on the other site saying "he is the best Middleweight in the world" before he even had a belt. My problem is that there always seems to be an excuse not to fight the best. Whether it is they are not willing to fight him or he is not willing to fight them and both are accepted!
GGG is too good to let his career go by and being only a "champion", he should be a "great" and to do that he has to fight great fighters.