What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
What are your thoughts: ?
1. It looked like whenever Murray backed GGG up/threw 3 or 4-punch combinations, that GGG sort of hesitated/froze. In those moments, GGG did not look too hard to hit.
2. Whenever Murray stopped moving and went straight back to the ropes, GGG just let a barrage loose.
3. Whenever Murray's gloves were up around his face and he was in a defensive shell, GGG blasted the sh*t out of him.
4. Whenever Murray used some lateral movement/circled to his left, it temporarily stalled/stifled GGG's attack, and took him out of the danger zone for a few moments.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
That GGG is human and that they need to get a bigger ring so they can try and outbox him.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
If you don't have the punching power to make him respect you (like Lemieux) then he's just going to walk in and maul you. He throws too many punches and hits too hard to think you're going to outfight him or outrun him. You need a guy like Ward who has the speed and skill to hit him from the outside and fie him up and nullify him on the inside.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
totally agree with all yous guys. GGG IMO is not what he seems. He can be outboxed, outfoxed, and/or knocked the fuck out by an aggressive warrior. Murray was told after Round 8: "You gotta knock him out! Hit him! Hit him!' but Murray didn't fight like a desperate wild animal who needed a KO. GGG will eat guys up who fight like that.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Lemieux would get smashed into mash.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
I agree with Brockton. It's exactly the same thing with Abraham. Either attack or defend. It amazed me how much Murray and Smith allowed them self's to be trapped in the ropes. For all the other decent things they were doing, to literally throw it all way by like that, is just absurd.
Yes both were incredibly brave but bloody foolish.
And for the record, I still think AA gives GGG his toughest nights work if not beats him. He has better defence, faster hands and a commanding jab.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
I also thought that he didn't show that he knows how to fight in clinches. Someone like Ward, who uses the clinch to his advantage frequently, would give him problems.
Another thing is that his defense is underrated. He doesn't get hit cleanly often. His use of range is very good too.
He also makes adjustments during the course of the fight well. Some of the things that Murray did well in the beginning of the fight, GGG took away from him later in the fight.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Only a complete fighter who is elite will beat GGG. Think a prime Hop or Ward type of fighter. Maybe a really fast, slick fighter will get the decision. Maybe. GGG is phenomenal at cutting the ring off and very good defensively for such an aggressive fighter.
The tactics that Hop used vs. Tito, where he moved laterally and constantly made Tito reset his feet while boxing behind the jab, are best suited for GGG. Even then, the opponent will need to be durable and have a GREAT chin and GREAT stamina to pull it off. It's like saying that all someone has to do to beat Floyd (after Castillo and Maidana fights) is to be physical with him and maul him for 12 rounds. Easier said than done because GGG and Floyd also have votes in those scenarios/fights.
GGG isn't an unskilled, plodding fighter who swings for the fences constantly. He is a highly skilled, VERY strong, aggressive fighter who puts on stifling/exhausting pressure when he fights. He will be very tough to beat and it will take a great fighter, fighting the perfect fight, to do it.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't sign the contract.
Im coming close now.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't sign the contract.
Im coming close now.
Too much information.
;D
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Only a complete fighter who is elite will beat GGG. Think a prime Hop or Ward type of fighter. Maybe a really fast, slick fighter will get the decision. Maybe. GGG is phenomenal at cutting the ring off and very good defensively for such an aggressive fighter.
The tactics that Hop used vs. Tito, where he moved laterally and constantly made Tito reset his feet while boxing behind the jab, are best suited for GGG. Even then, the opponent will need to be durable and have a GREAT chin and GREAT stamina to pull it off. It's like saying that all someone has to do to beat Floyd (after Castillo and Maidana fights) is to be physical with him and maul him for 12 rounds. Easier said than done because GGG and Floyd also have votes in those scenarios/fights.
GGG isn't an unskilled, plodding fighter who swings for the fences constantly. He is a highly skilled, VERY strong, aggressive fighter who puts on stifling/exhausting pressure when he fights. He will be very tough to beat and it will take a great fighter, fighting the perfect fight, to do it.
Agreed. Obviously he's not a slick guy and can be hit, but it's tough to know how much that will work against him until he's actually been given a run. It's not as though Murray was taking rounds or looking like he could win, and he's a fine boxer as well lets not forget. All of his best work in the fight basically just seemed to allow him some breathing room, for all we know Golovkin has another couple of gears if he's actually in deep.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
I was really impressed with Golovkin yet again. Murray fought a brave and tactically good fight, but he had the shit beaten out if him.
- GGG has no stamina problems whatsoever.
- he retains his knockout ability throughout a long fight
- good, solid chin
- technically very accomplished, but also fires off seriously unorthodox big shots. Arthur Abrahams shell like guard that nobody can penetrate IS open at the top, and those slightly illegal downward chops GGG uses would be interesting for Arthur. Having said that, Abraham is strong as a bull and GGG may not be able to bully him
- great great footwork and an amazing fighter at cutting off the ring and keeping his opponents under constant, heavy pressure. He was trotting after Murray time and time again in this fight.
Some hope for future opponents, though
- didn't fight at all on the inside really, and wated a lot of energy trying to get out of clinches
- did get caught with a few punches, so not defensively particularly tight
- definitely vulnerable to a quick counterpuncher who can stand in the pocket and not get bullied back onto the ropes
It would take some fighter to take advantage of those points ..... But that style of guy sounds like Andre Ward to me. Is strong and dirty on the inside, quick and a beautiful counterpuncher, and who is a naturally bigger guy that Golovkin.
I can't see a middleweight around who would make much of a dent in Golovkin, and I'm already thinking about only the truly elite fighters in the division above him. That's a hell of a compliment.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.
I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.
I couldn't disagree more. GGG is very effective at parrying punches and taking something off them with his gloves, shoulders, elbows or by "riding" the punch/slipping it. He was caught early with some looping right hands, but he seemed to tighten his defense up a little and punished Murray to get him to stop throwing them. Murray was a solid world class fighter, as was Geale. GGG destroyed those guys and didn't look marked up in the face at all, so either he is EXTREMELY durable, or he is better defensively than you are giving him credit for. Julio Caesar Chavez was similar in that he was a stalker who was very adept at slipping and parrying shots while breaking guys down behind a heavy jab and beautiful combos. GGG is probably the best fighter today at cutting the ring off (Cotto is good also when he remembers to/wants to). Very effective and BRUTAL fighter.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
I think a fascinating match up would be a prime James Toney vs. GGG. James fights his best vs. aggressive guys, and GGG fights like a harder punching (P4P) and more skilled version of Vassily Jirov, one of Toney's best fights/performances. You need a total package, large middleweight like Toney to beat GGG. If you have any glaring weakness GGG will exploit it and use it to break you down. If you have limited power he will walk you down and just pound you out. If you have a big punch but limited boxing ability he will break you down behind the jab, as he did with Curtis Stevens. Toney would have the defense, chin, power, size/length and skills to hang with GGG and give him a great challenge. Toney was a bit inconsistent throughout his career during fights, often taking rounds off due to laziness. Would this be the flaw GGG could take advantage of, or would James punish him with his jab and counters to take the fight late?
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
I think a lot of us have screwed around I the ring but only a handful have had a modicum of success. I would be interested to see what people like Tam and a few others have to say. Just the fact we are implying Murray had somewhat of a good showing just buy being able to almost go the distance with Ggg says a lot. Perhaps I don't know Shit about boxing but I think part of their reason, and I say this with no disrespect to Murray of whom I am a fan, but I think ggg wanted rounds.
Someone in another thread said Murray showed ggg was human, obviously in jest but that statement says a lot. I'm not saying ggg could have taken Murray out at anytime he wanted but Golovkin wanted rounds. I was surprised a few times when Murray kept coming in with his head down, almost lunging, that ggg didn't unload with more uppercut but things seem slower on TV than in the ring.
I think it will all start with someone who can show ggg some power that he'll respect. He doesn't mind getting hit to do what he got to do but his pain tolerance may be off the scale, plus, he looks the same after a fight as he did before. You would think he was sitting with Kellerman rather than actually fighting. He names people he wants to fight, I don't think he will avoid anyone but he can make people he faces look bad.
Well, he is good for boxing, I just hope the king of Manaco isn't going to make it so ggg has no interest in fighting outside of Monaco. He needs to fight in the states or England. I think the King loves the kid and makes it extremely comfortable and lucrative to fight over there. I thought ggg was learning English to further endear himself to the US market.
Anyway, if you want to have a chance with ggg I think you need to be able to make him be concerned about being hit, if such a thing is possible. Does anyone know if ggg has ever been cut in a fight.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Pack a lunch and wear a helmet! Seriously though you gotta invest down the middle. Golovkin is not hard to miss and has gaps as he marches in. He looked like he was experimenting with things around the 7th and got hit with some silly shots. Broke his stride in spots but it was like throwing ice cubes into a fan blade. Look to counter that chopping hook and L shaped uppercut. And know and except...you will be hit and pay a tax for your efforts. Oh and bring your own brass balls because its not guaranteed you have Murrays:-X
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
I think a fascinating match up would be a prime James Toney vs. GGG. James fights his best vs. aggressive guys, and GGG fights like a harder punching (P4P) and more skilled version of Vassily Jirov, one of Toney's best fights/performances. You need a total package, large middleweight like Toney to beat GGG. If you have any glaring weakness GGG will exploit it and use it to break you down. If you have limited power he will walk you down and just pound you out. If you have a big punch but limited boxing ability he will break you down behind the jab, as he did with Curtis Stevens. Toney would have the defense, chin, power, size/length and skills to hang with GGG and give him a great challenge. Toney was a bit inconsistent throughout his career during fights, often taking rounds off due to laziness. Would this be the flaw GGG could take advantage of, or would James punish him with his jab and counters to take the fight late?
This^^^^^^
Both Geale and Murray are not big hitters. Murray has a very rounded game otherwise, but people suggesting that he somehow decided to stay on the ropes have missed what was in front of them.Golovkin dictates the pace by controlling the space.
The pressure is constant, he won't let you take a breather. Fighters can't push him onto the back foot because he won't let them. To get your own punches off you need space but you also need time. He will mix it up so that yes sometimes he gets caught by punching with you, but usually before you, or in the gap when you are trying to set your feet and readjust. He has such a varied arsenal that he will hit you through gaps you never thought were there or in places you thought were unreachable. Great defence? He will breach it. Great offense? He will read it and make you miss and punish you.
I agree about the gaps. This guy throws punches from very odd angles and threads the needle through a weird/diagonal kind of gap that most fighters I imagine are not thinking of; for me as a spectator I am weirdly surprised everytime he throws that odd, downward left hook through that gap. Ouch! And landing it on the top of the forehead --- jeesh! Seems it could crush a small vertebrae in the neck or something.
Re: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.
I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.
Getting significantly worse does not mean that he doesn't have good defense or that his defense is underrated. I agree with you that Murray had more success than previous opponents have had against GGG. But, he's only known as an offensive dynamo, which he is, but he's also a great at some defensive maneuvers. For one, I think he does a great job parrying shots. He also does a great job blocking shots on his arms and moving safely into and out of striking distance. Thus, his defense is underrated.
