What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?

[Hulk]

Stay down.

[X]

I was really impressed with Golovkin yet again. Murray fought a brave and tactically good fight, but he had the shit beaten out if him.

- GGG has no stamina problems whatsoever.
- he retains his knockout ability throughout a long fight
- good, solid chin
- technically very accomplished, but also fires off seriously unorthodox big shots. Arthur Abrahams shell like guard that nobody can penetrate IS open at the top, and those slightly illegal downward chops GGG uses would be interesting for Arthur. Having said that, Abraham is strong as a bull and GGG may not be able to bully him
- great great footwork and an amazing fighter at cutting off the ring and keeping his opponents under constant, heavy pressure. He was trotting after Murray time and time again in this fight.

Some hope for future opponents, though

- didn't fight at all on the inside really, and wated a lot of energy trying to get out of clinches
- did get caught with a few punches, so not defensively particularly tight
- definitely vulnerable to a quick counterpuncher who can stand in the pocket and not get bullied back onto the ropes

It would take some fighter to take advantage of those points ..... But that style of guy sounds like Andre Ward to me. Is strong and dirty on the inside, quick and a beautiful counterpuncher, and who is a naturally bigger guy that Golovkin.

I can't see a middleweight around who would make much of a dent in Golovkin, and I'm already thinking about only the truly elite fighters in the division above him. That's a hell of a compliment.

[mikeeod]

I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.

I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.

I couldn't disagree more. GGG is very effective at parrying punches and taking something off them with his gloves, shoulders, elbows or by "riding" the punch/slipping it. He was caught early with some looping right hands, but he seemed to tighten his defense up a little and punished Murray to get him to stop throwing them. Murray was a solid world class fighter, as was Geale. GGG destroyed those guys and didn't look marked up in the face at all, so either he is EXTREMELY durable, or he is better defensively than you are giving him credit for. Julio Caesar Chavez was similar in that he was a stalker who was very adept at slipping and parrying shots while breaking guys down behind a heavy jab and beautiful combos. GGG is probably the best fighter today at cutting the ring off (Cotto is good also when he remembers to/wants to). Very effective and BRUTAL fighter.

[mikeeod]

I think a fascinating match up would be a prime James Toney vs. GGG. James fights his best vs. aggressive guys, and GGG fights like a harder punching (P4P) and more skilled version of Vassily Jirov, one of Toney's best fights/performances. You need a total package, large middleweight like Toney to beat GGG. If you have any glaring weakness GGG will exploit it and use it to break you down. If you have limited power he will walk you down and just pound you out. If you have a big punch but limited boxing ability he will break you down behind the jab, as he did with Curtis Stevens. Toney would have the defense, chin, power, size/length and skills to hang with GGG and give him a great challenge. Toney was a bit inconsistent throughout his career during fights, often taking rounds off due to laziness. Would this be the flaw GGG could take advantage of, or would James punish him with his jab and counters to take the fight late?

[Ron Swanson]

I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.

I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.

I couldn't disagree more. GGG is very effective at parrying punches and taking something off them with his gloves, shoulders, elbows or by "riding" the punch/slipping it. He was caught early with some looping right hands, but he seemed to tighten his defense up a little and punished Murray to get him to stop throwing them. Murray was a solid world class fighter, as was Geale. GGG destroyed those guys and didn't look marked up in the face at all, so either he is EXTREMELY durable, or he is better defensively than you are giving him credit for. Julio Caesar Chavez was similar in that he was a stalker who was very adept at slipping and parrying shots while breaking guys down behind a heavy jab and beautiful combos. GGG is probably the best fighter today at cutting the ring off (Cotto is good also when he remembers to/wants to). Very effective and BRUTAL fighter.

He was caught flush later in the fight too. And he flinched after the punches landed which is a clear sign he didn't see them. It didn't matter in this fight because they had nothing on them but keep an eye on it. His defense used to be better. He's focusing too much on his attack and it might get him in trouble. If he fights someone closer to his level.

[walrus]

I think a lot of us have screwed around I the ring but only a handful have had a modicum of success. I would be interested to see what people like Tam and a few others have to say. Just the fact we are implying Murray had somewhat of a good showing just buy being able to almost go the distance with Ggg says a lot. Perhaps I don't know Shit about boxing but I think part of their reason, and I say this with no disrespect to Murray of whom I am a fan, but I think ggg wanted rounds.

Someone in another thread said Murray showed ggg was human, obviously in jest but that statement says a lot. I'm not saying ggg could have taken Murray out at anytime he wanted but Golovkin wanted rounds. I was surprised a few times when Murray kept coming in with his head down, almost lunging, that ggg didn't unload with more uppercut but things seem slower on TV than in the ring.

I think it will all start with someone who can show ggg some power that he'll respect. He doesn't mind getting hit to do what he got to do but his pain tolerance may be off the scale, plus, he looks the same after a fight as he did before. You would think he was sitting with Kellerman rather than actually fighting. He names people he wants to fight, I don't think he will avoid anyone but he can make people he faces look bad.

Well, he is good for boxing, I just hope the king of Manaco isn't going to make it so ggg has no interest in fighting outside of Monaco. He needs to fight in the states or England. I think the King loves the kid and makes it extremely comfortable and lucrative to fight over there. I thought ggg was learning English to further endear himself to the US market.

Anyway, if you want to have a chance with ggg I think you need to be able to make him be concerned about being hit, if such a thing is possible. Does anyone know if ggg has ever been cut in a fight.

[beenKOed]

Don't sign the contract.

Yeah, and let your corner know that you don't want a fight to the death!

When you corner tells you, you need a KO to win, quit!

[Spicoli]

Pack a lunch and wear a helmet! Seriously though you gotta invest down the middle. Golovkin is not hard to miss and has gaps as he marches in. He looked like he was experimenting with things around the 7th and got hit with some silly shots. Broke his stride in spots but it was like throwing ice cubes into a fan blade. Look to counter that chopping hook and L shaped uppercut. And know and except...you will be hit and pay a tax for your efforts. Oh and bring your own brass balls because its not guaranteed you have Murrays

[Beanz]

I think a fascinating match up would be a prime James Toney vs. GGG. James fights his best vs. aggressive guys, and GGG fights like a harder punching (P4P) and more skilled version of Vassily Jirov, one of Toney's best fights/performances. You need a total package, large middleweight like Toney to beat GGG. If you have any glaring weakness GGG will exploit it and use it to break you down. If you have limited power he will walk you down and just pound you out. If you have a big punch but limited boxing ability he will break you down behind the jab, as he did with Curtis Stevens. Toney would have the defense, chin, power, size/length and skills to hang with GGG and give him a great challenge. Toney was a bit inconsistent throughout his career during fights, often taking rounds off due to laziness. Would this be the flaw GGG could take advantage of, or would James punish him with his jab and counters to take the fight late?

This^^^^^^

Both Geale and Murray are not big hitters. Murray has a very rounded game otherwise, but people suggesting that he somehow decided to stay on the ropes have missed what was in front of them.Golovkin dictates the pace by controlling the space.

The pressure is constant, he won't let you take a breather. Fighters can't push him onto the back foot because he won't let them. To get your own punches off you need space but you also need time. He will mix it up so that yes sometimes he gets caught by punching with you, but usually before you, or in the gap when you are trying to set your feet and readjust. He has such a varied arsenal that he will hit you through gaps you never thought were there or in places you thought were unreachable. Great defence? He will breach it. Great offense? He will read it and make you miss and punish you.

[brocktonblockbust]

I think a fascinating match up would be a prime James Toney vs. GGG. James fights his best vs. aggressive guys, and GGG fights like a harder punching (P4P) and more skilled version of Vassily Jirov, one of Toney's best fights/performances. You need a total package, large middleweight like Toney to beat GGG. If you have any glaring weakness GGG will exploit it and use it to break you down. If you have limited power he will walk you down and just pound you out. If you have a big punch but limited boxing ability he will break you down behind the jab, as he did with Curtis Stevens. Toney would have the defense, chin, power, size/length and skills to hang with GGG and give him a great challenge. Toney was a bit inconsistent throughout his career during fights, often taking rounds off due to laziness. Would this be the flaw GGG could take advantage of, or would James punish him with his jab and counters to take the fight late?

This^^^^^^

Both Geale and Murray are not big hitters. Murray has a very rounded game otherwise, but people suggesting that he somehow decided to stay on the ropes have missed what was in front of them.Golovkin dictates the pace by controlling the space.

The pressure is constant, he won't let you take a breather. Fighters can't push him onto the back foot because he won't let them. To get your own punches off you need space but you also need time. He will mix it up so that yes sometimes he gets caught by punching with you, but usually before you, or in the gap when you are trying to set your feet and readjust. He has such a varied arsenal that he will hit you through gaps you never thought were there or in places you thought were unreachable. Great defence? He will breach it. Great offense? He will read it and make you miss and punish you.

I agree about the gaps. This guy throws punches from very odd angles and threads the needle through a weird/diagonal kind of gap that most fighters I imagine are not thinking of; for me as a spectator I am weirdly surprised everytime he throws that odd, downward left hook through that gap. Ouch! And landing it on the top of the forehead --- jeesh! Seems it could crush a small vertebrae in the neck or something.

[Rantcatrat]

I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.

I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.

Getting significantly worse does not mean that he doesn't have good defense or that his defense is underrated. I agree with you that Murray had more success than previous opponents have had against GGG. But, he's only known as an offensive dynamo, which he is, but he's also a great at some defensive maneuvers. For one, I think he does a great job parrying shots. He also does a great job blocking shots on his arms and moving safely into and out of striking distance. Thus, his defense is underrated.