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I wrote about the fight for work.
I don't like him, but when it comes to the art of hitting and not getting hit, I struggle to think of anyone better. And his speed and reflexes lasted longer than Ali's and Robinson's (although he's had less fights).
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Hey, nice article. Must be an interesting job you have. Yes, Floyd has to be the best of our time. Hardly been flustered in 18 years ( I think that's the correct number.) What I wonder now is will he go for fifty. He is an immortal in the boxing world but 50 and 0 would cement it. Despite me swearing off ppv I would be tempted to get his fiftieth. Will he walk away at 49 like he says.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
I'm good with Floyd retiring at 49. He is definitely an ATG, and I can now see a case where people place him in the top 5. The guy dominates anyone 160 and down not named GGG. That being said, his fights just don't excite me now as he wins most of his big fights in boring fashion.
The Manny win was big, but compare his performance and action to his wins over Chico Corrales and Ricky Hatton. Floyd FOUGHT and BEAT those guys in a dominant and EXCITING manner. He's so good he will out point pretty much anyone around his weight, but he won't beat them up or consistently put 3 and 4 punches together at a time. He will win by making the other guy hesitant to fight as well. Not a recipe for excitement/drama.
May weather does a lot of things that good fighters would make him pay for. Watch the fight again. Try and count the times somebody is off balance. Try and count the times somebody gets caught with their weight on one foot (watch Floyd jab).
Floyd benefits from fighting guys that are real good against guys that don't fight back. PAC had no solution for a guy that contested control of range; he looked like an amateur. Also PAC doesn't throw combinations, which are purposeful sequences of punches. He throws 'flurries'
As I said in the article, imagine if he'd been dudded on the cards?!? ;D
Would have made Larry Holmes "Rocky Marciano couldn't carry my jockstrap" rant look positively g-rated.
I think Mayweather's ultimate challenge could come from trying to hold on to all that money. There are so many broke ex-fighters out there. I think Floyd is smarter than that, but it would be an incredible piece of Schadenfreude if Floyd ended up on the bones of his arse.
I think Floyd fought a pretty sloppy fight and though I expected him to win regardless, I was surprised Pacquiao couldn't even make him sweat – the consensus #2 pound-for-pound fighter in the world!Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
You might be right that "in the land of the blind the one eyed-man is king." That Floyd's best advantage is the relative skill level of his competition.
But I also think that Mayweather has a rare combination of many, many small advantages that combine to make him extremely difficult to beat. He is a good athlete to begin with; he keeps himself is immaculate condition at all times; he has very long arms for his size; he doesn't tire himself out by fighting "tense"; he has patience and discipline; he has a good chin; he can throw punches with both hands; he is smart; aware of his surroundings; aware of the referee; and thinks about winning and defense first.
None of those traits individually are that rare, but you combine them all together and all those little small advantages make him exponentially tougher to beat, at least compared with his current-day peers. And I think those would serve him well in any era, even if he would not be so dominant.
There is definitely more to his success than "fast hands."</Lampley>
He's with out a doubt the TBE in my eyes all the other ATGs he gets compaired too had a few off nights, not floyd and not only has he never had an off night, he some how manages to make all these other hall of famers look very average in the ring. Can you imagine the praise this guy would get if he was marketed as the good guy instead of the villain.
Floyd is not TBE and he is far from entertaining. He is past his best and its plain to see.
Whitaker did what he has done and gone up in weight fighting better fighters.
Stop the nonsense.
So Mayweather hasn't fought any good fighters in his 17 years as a champion fighting nothing but top 10 ranked fighters?Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
Floyd has fought and beaten just about every style and body type you can.
You think Pernell has a better resume than Floyd? How could you justify that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I am saying he has gone up in weight and done exactly what Floyd did but no one is making a song and dance about it proclaiming he is TBE.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYou think Pernell has a better resume than Floyd? How could you justify that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Well Sweetpea has titles in 3 different weight divisions (135, 140, 147). Floyd was a champ in 5 different weight classes (130, 135, 140, 147, 154). He also didn't have the success that Floyd had in staying undefeated, he didn't have the longevity like Floyd and in some of his biggest fights he didn't come away with the win (although to be fair he was robbed against JCC and JLR, and passed his prime when he fought DLH). And in the end, Floyd has fought tougher opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Cant put Mayweather past Leonard to be honest so like 11 i guess i mean even with this fight still not as big as beating Hagler or Hearns. The welterweight division i feel is a tad slim I mean the 80's and the 90's were packed it seems now the welterweights are kinda meh compared to pas years.
Sweat pea was undefeated for a long time in reality and 0 does not really mean that much when you do not always fight the best at the weight. All I am saying sweat pea did it earlier and better.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWell Sweetpea has titles in 3 different weight divisions (135, 140, 147). Floyd was a champ in 5 different weight classes (130, 135, 140, 147, 154). He also didn't have the success that Floyd had in staying undefeated, he didn't have the longevity like Floyd and in some of his biggest fights he didn't come away with the win (although to be fair he was robbed against JCC and JLR, and passed his prime when he fought DLH). And in the end, Floyd has fought tougher opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Well Pea had a loss 3 or 4 years into his career (to be fair, it was a robbery). He was a great LW and WW champ, but again he didn't do what Floyd did (5 weight division vs 3 weight divisions), and I don't really see how you can say he did it "better". Sweetpea was amazing but Floyd showed more skill, he had much more electrifying performances along the way (mostly from 130-140) and he fought and won in a lot more super fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
At this point there is nobody in the history of boxing that has done what Floyd has.
I rate Sweetpea lower then Mayweather but if he had to move as many weight classes as Mayweather he be fighting like fucking Hopkins. Also later in his career he had to go against Prime Oscar and Tito i mean dont think the divsion is as stacked now for Mayweather at the end of his career.
I love Sweetpea and I rate him higher on the all time list than most people do I imagine.
The performances he put on against DLH and Trinidad have to be admired, given the fact that he was a washed up coke addict at the time, and there's even an argument that he won the DLH fight. Trinidad ducked him for years and fought him when he was a shell of himself. People talk about Floyd ducking and dodging guys, how come Tito doesn't get shit for turning down 4.5 mil to fight Trinidad in the mid 90s?
I dont think Mayweather is ducker really just way shit goes now and not like others fighters dont look at the options choose the one with more money. Its just at the end of the day ww division was kinda weak compared to the 90's. I mean look at the guys in the division now there good but not really great i mean pac had a few good wins at ww Mayweather had more and legit wins at lmw to but guys they are fighting on there declines are not close to fight fucking Prime Oscar and Tito those guys are atg.
Marciano did one thing better and in half the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWell Pea had a loss 3 or 4 years into his career (to be fair, it was a robbery). He was a great LW and WW champ, but again he didn't do what Floyd did (5 weight division vs 3 weight divisions), and I don't really see how you can say he did it "better". Sweetpea was amazing but Floyd showed more skill, he had much more electrifying performances along the way (mostly from 130-140) and he fought and won in a lot more super fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
At this point there is nobody in the history of boxing that has done what Floyd has.
I'm not saying Marciano was better than Floyd, I just can't let you get away with that last sentence.
It's the reason I'm positive Floyd will go for 50-0! If he doesn't, there will always be someone out there like me.
Yea but Whitaker had a few off nights, floyds never had an off night and didn't Whitaker take so much punishment he's now blind in one eye ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
For sure Marciano had a great run, but to me the number of wins isn't the issue, Mayweather could go fight two bums on the same night in September and reach 50-0 if he wanted to.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
It's much more remarkable to stay undefeated for 19 years than it is to stay defeated for 8 years. There's so much that can go wrong in that length of time, and for Mayweather to have that kind of longevity and to beat arguably his greatest opponent at the age of 38 is something that you just don't see in boxing.
Of course there are guys who had success for longer periods of time, like Bhop, Archie Moore and Duran, but none of those guys had the level of dominance that Floyd has had.
Tito turning down Trinidad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Oops Whitaker I meant haha
Sweat pea was flawless and never had off nights in his prime which was lightweight. He was robbed and would have had a 0 but he had balls to take on Oscar, Tito and Vasquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Yea but Whitaker had a few off nights, floyds never had an off night and didn't Whitaker take so much punishment he's now blind in one eye ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Floyd is the TBE (the boring-est ever)
ITs amazing how many people are caught up with the Floyd hit and not get hit shit. He has been booed his last 5-6 fights cause he never engages. SHit is sad.
No he did have off nights he's got a few loses wether you think he won or not that's fact and don't start about being in his prime floyds a fair bit past his prime he's an old man in a young guys sport and he's still having shutouts against the up and coming superstars like canelo. Floyds achievements are way above Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSweat pea was flawless and never had off nights in his prime which was lightweight. He was robbed and would have had a 0 but he had balls to take on Oscar, Tito and Vasquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Yea but Whitaker had a few off nights, floyds never had an off night and didn't Whitaker take so much punishment he's now blind in one eye ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I agree Floyd is past his prime which was at the lower weight. Floyd would have lost his 0 if he was fighting legitimate welterweights like Tito, Ike and Oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3No he did have off nights he's got a few loses wether you think he won or not that's fact and don't start about being in his prime floyds a fair bit past his prime he's an old man in a young guys sport and he's still having shutouts against the up and coming superstars like canelo. Floyds achievements are way above Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSweat pea was flawless and never had off nights in his prime which was lightweight. He was robbed and would have had a 0 but he had balls to take on Oscar, Tito and Vasquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Yea but Whitaker had a few off nights, floyds never had an off night and didn't Whitaker take so much punishment he's now blind in one eye ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
No way he loses to any of them it's just my opinion but I honestly just don't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI agree Floyd is past his prime which was at the lower weight. Floyd would have lost his 0 if he was fighting legitimate welterweights like Tito, Ike and Oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3No he did have off nights he's got a few loses wether you think he won or not that's fact and don't start about being in his prime floyds a fair bit past his prime he's an old man in a young guys sport and he's still having shutouts against the up and coming superstars like canelo. Floyds achievements are way above Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSweat pea was flawless and never had off nights in his prime which was lightweight. He was robbed and would have had a 0 but he had balls to take on Oscar, Tito and Vasquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Yea but Whitaker had a few off nights, floyds never had an off night and didn't Whitaker take so much punishment he's now blind in one eye ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The reason why I say Floyd loses to those guys is because they are true welterweights not blown up ones coming from lower weights so I am not disrespecting Floyd the cunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3No way he loses to any of them it's just my opinion but I honestly just don't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI agree Floyd is past his prime which was at the lower weight. Floyd would have lost his 0 if he was fighting legitimate welterweights like Tito, Ike and Oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3No he did have off nights he's got a few loses wether you think he won or not that's fact and don't start about being in his prime floyds a fair bit past his prime he's an old man in a young guys sport and he's still having shutouts against the up and coming superstars like canelo. Floyds achievements are way above Whitaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSweat pea was flawless and never had off nights in his prime which was lightweight. He was robbed and would have had a 0 but he had balls to take on Oscar, Tito and Vasquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Yea but Whitaker had a few off nights, floyds never had an off night and didn't Whitaker take so much punishment he's now blind in one eye ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Oscar I can see but not Ike or Tito.
That is why I respect Oscar coming from the lower weight and fighting the cartel of champions who would not fight one another. He took them on and gave it a go!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Oscar was always up for making the big fights and taking on tough opponents.
Floyd has a perfect record, now had he fought some different fighters at different times would that 0 still be there? It's really up for debate. How would Floyd fair vs the all-time greats? That's up for debate as well as he didn't have many to fight in his era...he wasn't rivals with any of the big time players before him so who knows?
That's definitely true, you can do that with all athletes. How would Jordan have performed in the Celtic dynasty era, how would Ted Willaims do against today's pictures, bottom line is I think it's safe to say Floyd is the greatest of our generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Jordan did just fine vs the 80's Celtics....he dropped 63 on the 1986 Celtics IN Boston Garden IN the Playoffs. The 1986 Celtics were a BRILLIANT team.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusThat's definitely true, you can do that with all athletes. How would Jordan have performed in the Celtic dynasty era, how would Ted Willaims do against today's pictures, bottom line is I think it's safe to say Floyd is the greatest of our generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ted Williams would ALWAYS hit well...he went to bat 186 times against Bob Feller and The Splendid Splinter had a .478 on base average against Feller, he hit .349 against Feller, with a homerun every 14.9 times at bat against Bob Feller. To that point Bob Feller vs everyone else: he held opponents to a .228 average, he got a strike out every 5.56 batters.
How would Floyd do against the best of his era when they were at their best ???????
It was a question when Floyd started his career and he hasn't done a great deal to answer it. I suppose he'd do well, but for fucks sake he barely beat De la Hoya, he fought a worn down Mosley...he fought Deigo Corrales in his pomp and trashed him so there's that but is Corrales a great? Floyd fought Hatton outside Hatton's best weight, a weight where Hatton had SIGNIFICANT trouble vs Luis Collazo let alone a great like Floyd. The Miguel Cotto fight was a decent one....still extremely close, much closer than most want to admit although the championship rounds DID go for Floyd.
Floyd is GREAT but when we start talking "How great" is when I start trying to actually figure it out in detail.
We'll never know because they didn't want to fight him in their primes. Mayweather called out DLH when Floyd was still at 130 and DLH was 154. He called out Mosley at 135 but Shane chose to jump up and fight DLH for the bigger money. What can you do?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Sometimes you have to chase down your prey.....it ain't easy being THE GREATEST which is why it's not a term I throw around lightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWe'll never know because they didn't want to fight him in their primes. Mayweather called out DLH when Floyd was still at 130 and DLH was 154. He called out Mosley at 135 but Shane chose to jump up and fight DLH for the bigger money. What can you do?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I'd put Floyd's resume up with anyone else's, to be honest. The only problem he had was that he was too good to have a true rival, like Roy Jones in his day. Floyd's faced just about every style and body type you can and has always found a way to not just win, but usually make it look easy.
Roy has Toney and Hopkins on his ATG list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Yeah, and he whipped Toney so bad it wasn't even fair.
People still try to take those wins from him though. They say Bhop was too green and Toney wasn't in shape :D
No respect for RJJ