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How good was george foreman to come back and win the belt like he did...does that show how great he was as a heavyweight or do we pick on the era.
Tommy morrison beat him in the end but does the comeback george made make a difference to your top 5 heavyweight list?
ABSOLUTELYQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
It was a call of redemption, as everyone had thought George to be 'A Joke' when he made his
announcement to come back.
He accomplished more than Cassius Clay did {later in his career} by 10 Fold.
He did...but ali beat him in his primeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomABSOLUTELYQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
It was a call of redemption, as everyone had thought George to be 'A Joke' when he made his
announcement to come back.
He accomplished more than Cassius Clay did {later in his career} by 10 Fold.
George Foreman becoming HW champion in the two greatest eras of HW boxing, 20 years apart was truly phenomenal & unlikely ever to be matched.
In the 70s he was relentlessly destructive but fought with little or no intelligence; in the 90s, he fought with great intelligence but was so slow that you could see his punches coming from 2 decades earlier!:o
I've always said that if you could marry Foreman's 70s incarnation with his 90s incarnation, he'd be largely unbeatable.
Big George was lucky to win the title and carefully handpicked his fighters he fought. Sure he won the title but it was against the glass jaw Michael Moorer.
He did but if they had 10 fights how many times do you think Ali could pull that off ? 2 times maybe 3 at most, Forman is ranked higher in my all time list than AliQuote:
Originally Posted by impHe did...but ali beat him in his primeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomABSOLUTELYQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
It was a call of redemption, as everyone had thought George to be 'A Joke' when he made his
announcement to come back.
He accomplished more than Cassius Clay did {later in his career} by 10 Fold.
Show me your list, I could do with a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3He did but if they had 10 fights how many times do you think Ali could pull that off ? 2 times maybe 3 at most, Forman is ranked higher in my all time list than AliQuote:
Originally Posted by impHe did...but ali beat him in his primeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomABSOLUTELYQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
It was a call of redemption, as everyone had thought George to be 'A Joke' when he made his
announcement to come back.
He accomplished more than Cassius Clay did {later in his career} by 10 Fold.
Top 10 all time is probablyQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterShow me your list, I could do with a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3He did but if they had 10 fights how many times do you think Ali could pull that off ? 2 times maybe 3 at most, Forman is ranked higher in my all time list than AliQuote:
Originally Posted by impHe did...but ali beat him in his primeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomABSOLUTELYQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
It was a call of redemption, as everyone had thought George to be 'A Joke' when he made his
announcement to come back.
He accomplished more than Cassius Clay did {later in his career} by 10 Fold.
1. Floyd mayweather
2. Marvin hagler
3. Joe Louis
4. Ray Robinson
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Larry Holmes
7. George Forman
8. Joe calzaghe
9. Lenox Lewis
10. Bernard Hopkins
I know my top list is probably different to a lot but I'm pretty harsh on fighters. I would love to add Roy Jones, Tyson etc but if fighters chose to fight past there prime they need to take the good with the bad.
Joe Louis got smashed by Rocky. Foreman lost to Morrison, Briggs and Holyfield so these 2 top fighters fought on past their best. Not even mention Robinson fighting way past his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Top 10 all time is probablyQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterShow me your list, I could do with a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3He did but if they had 10 fights how many times do you think Ali could pull that off ? 2 times maybe 3 at most, Forman is ranked higher in my all time list than AliQuote:
Originally Posted by impHe did...but ali beat him in his primeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomABSOLUTELYQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
It was a call of redemption, as everyone had thought George to be 'A Joke' when he made his
announcement to come back.
He accomplished more than Cassius Clay did {later in his career} by 10 Fold.
1. Floyd mayweather
2. Marvin hagler
3. Joe Louis
4. Ray Robinson
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Larry Holmes
7. George Forman
8. Joe calzaghe
9. Lenox Lewis
10. Bernard Hopkins
I know my top list is probably different to a lot but I'm pretty harsh on fighters. I would love to add Roy Jones, Tyson etc but if fighters chose to fight past there prime they need to take the good with the bad.
You are also giving too much respect for undefeated record and surprised you did not have Sven Ottke on your list.
So you punish fighters when they are past their prime...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Mayweather arguably 'peaked' a decade ago; and fought this year.
Hagler may of peaked in the late 70s, and no matter what was never quite so Marvelous post Sibson, yet fought on until 1987.
Louis peaked in the late 30s and fought on into the 50s.
Robinson peaked in the 40s and fought on onto the 60s.
Holmes possibly peaked in the Norton fight, certainly was not the same post Cooney and yet in 82 he was only a third of the way through his career (in time).
Foreman peaked in 73 yet was still fighting nearly 25 years later!
Hopkins peaked in the later part of the 20th century and certainly was never quite the same post Trinidad, yet he is still active a decade and a half later...
Maybe it is the fact that they peaked and still did well to some degree. Suprised Roberto Duran is not in it then.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish fighters when they are past their prime...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Mayweather arguably 'peaked' a decade ago; and fought this year.
Hagler may of peaked in the late 70s, and no matter what was never quite so Marvelous post Sibson, yet fought on until 1987.
Louis peaked in the late 30s and fought on into the 50s.
Robinson peaked in the 40s and fought on onto the 60s.
Holmes possibly peaked in the Norton fight, certainly was not the same post Cooney and yet in 82 he was only a third of the way through his career (in time).
Foreman peaked in 73 yet was still fighting nearly 25 years later!
Hopkins peaked in the later part of the 20th century and certainly was never quite the same post Trinidad, yet he is still active a decade and a half later...
Each to their own but Floyd being top is just horrible.
It is very subjective; within reason there is no right or wrong. I did a list earlier this year. My top 10 went:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMaybe it is the fact that they peaked and still did well to some degree. Suprised Roberto Duran is not in it then.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish fighters when they are past their prime...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Mayweather arguably 'peaked' a decade ago; and fought this year.
Hagler may of peaked in the late 70s, and no matter what was never quite so Marvelous post Sibson, yet fought on until 1987.
Louis peaked in the late 30s and fought on into the 50s.
Robinson peaked in the 40s and fought on onto the 60s.
Holmes possibly peaked in the Norton fight, certainly was not the same post Cooney and yet in 82 he was only a third of the way through his career (in time).
Foreman peaked in 73 yet was still fighting nearly 25 years later!
Hopkins peaked in the later part of the 20th century and certainly was never quite the same post Trinidad, yet he is still active a decade and a half later...
Each to their own but Floyd being top is just horrible.
10 Carlos Monzon
9 Benny Leonard
8 Ezzard Charles
7 Joe Louis
6 Muhammad Ali
5 Harry Greb
4 Bob Fitzsimmons
3 Roberto Duran
2 Henry Armstrong
1 Ray Robinson
Of those not listed on g3org3's 10:
Lil Floyd I had at 17; Hagler 34; Marciano 54; Holmes 44; Foreman 55; Lewis 76; Hopkins 26 and I did not have Calzaghe in the 100.
No what I mean is let's use Roy Jones as the perfect example, I don't rate fighters when they fight way past there prime and continue to lose to very poor opposition. If Roy had retired after say the glen Johnson fight I would probably of had him top 5 but he continued to fight and get beat by lesser fighters and I don't give fighters a pass just because there out of there prime. If they chose to fight past there prime they must take everything that comes with it good or bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish fighters when they are past their prime...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Mayweather arguably 'peaked' a decade ago; and fought this year.
Hagler may of peaked in the late 70s, and no matter what was never quite so Marvelous post Sibson, yet fought on until 1987.
Louis peaked in the late 30s and fought on into the 50s.
Robinson peaked in the 40s and fought on onto the 60s.
Holmes possibly peaked in the Norton fight, certainly was not the same post Cooney and yet in 82 he was only a third of the way through his career (in time).
Foreman peaked in 73 yet was still fighting nearly 25 years later!
Hopkins peaked in the later part of the 20th century and certainly was never quite the same post Trinidad, yet he is still active a decade and a half later...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJoe Louis got smashed by Rocky. Foreman lost to Morrison, Briggs and Holyfield so these 2 top fighters fought on past their best. Not even mention Robinson fighting way past his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Top 10 all time is probablyQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterShow me your list, I could do with a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3He did but if they had 10 fights how many times do you think Ali could pull that off ? 2 times maybe 3 at most, Forman is ranked higher in my all time list than AliQuote:
Originally Posted by impHe did...but ali beat him in his primeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomABSOLUTELYQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
It was a call of redemption, as everyone had thought George to be 'A Joke' when he made his
announcement to come back.
He accomplished more than Cassius Clay did {later in his career} by 10 Fold.
1. Floyd mayweather
2. Marvin hagler
3. Joe Louis
4. Ray Robinson
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Larry Holmes
7. George Forman
8. Joe calzaghe
9. Lenox Lewis
10. Bernard Hopkins
I know my top list is probably different to a lot but I'm pretty harsh on fighters. I would love to add Roy Jones, Tyson etc but if fighters chose to fight past there prime they need to take the good with the bad.
You are also giving too much respect for undefeated record and surprised you did not have Sven Ottke on your list.
Yes they did fight past there prime but they were not constantly getting beat up by shit opposition like Jones Jr. Tyson etc so that's why I've included them and a top 10 list is very subjective everyone likes different things in fighters. I honestly don't know how people can have Duran in any list after that no mas but that's just my opinion not that it matters much.
Then I ask again; why rate the Foreman's and Robinson's? Both lost to fighters on par with those who have flattened Jones recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3No what I mean is let's use Roy Jones as the perfect example, I don't rate fighters when they fight way past there prime and continue to lose to very poor opposition. If Roy had retired after say the glen Johnson fight I would probably of had him top 5 but he continued to fight and get beat by lesser fighters and I don't give fighters a pass just because there out of there prime. If they chose to fight past there prime they must take everything that comes with it good or bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish fighters when they are past their prime...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Mayweather arguably 'peaked' a decade ago; and fought this year.
Hagler may of peaked in the late 70s, and no matter what was never quite so Marvelous post Sibson, yet fought on until 1987.
Louis peaked in the late 30s and fought on into the 50s.
Robinson peaked in the 40s and fought on onto the 60s.
Holmes possibly peaked in the Norton fight, certainly was not the same post Cooney and yet in 82 he was only a third of the way through his career (in time).
Foreman peaked in 73 yet was still fighting nearly 25 years later!
Hopkins peaked in the later part of the 20th century and certainly was never quite the same post Trinidad, yet he is still active a decade and a half later...
well as for Forman I don't agree with you at all who did he lose too that was shit ? The Briggs fight he clearly won and got robbed, Holyfield is an all time great who was undefeated when they met, Morrison was also looked at as a very promising talent think he only had been beat 1 time before facing Forman. Ali well some rate his as the best ever and there was another defeat he had can even remember the guys name but I think he was pretty average to be honest.
As for Robinson I'll be honest I've not seen all his fights although I've seen a lot and didn't know a lot of the fighters he faced but he did look like a phenomenal talent, probably the most complete package fighter I've seen, from what I've seen he looked as if he had it all.
So you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Well yes obviously I can judge fighters a lot better actually growing up watching them fight, as I said before I know very few of Ray Robinsons opponents and am just judging Robinson on how he looks in fights because he's from an era I wasn't born in. Also Jones been getting brutality stopped in fights something that never happened to Robinson. Have u just done a complete u turn on Forman was expecting a reply about his defeats?Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Well yes obviously I can judge fighters a lot better actually growing up watching them fight, as I said before I know very few of Ray Robinsons opponents and am just judging Robinson on how he looks in fights because he's from an era I wasn't born in. Also Jones been getting brutality stopped in fights something that never happened to Robinson. Have u just done a complete u turn on Forman was expecting a reply about his defeats?Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Foreman suffered embarrassing defeats. Jimmy Young was meant to be blown out and battered George into his first retirement and then 'The Duke' was in a poor run and brought in, to make Foreman look good.
And fair enough, you do not consider the Briggs fight a defeat; so that means you must consider the Schultz fight a defeat. Now I think even Jones Jr could still beat ol' Axel. But then maybe you did not see Schultz on TV and thus rate him up there with Ali, Louis et al! ;)
Foreman also wasted his prime years and missed out on big fights with Larry Holmes. Foreman's opponents were handpicked and he never wanted to face the best opposition in his comeback actively avoiding Lennox and Bows who were too big, young and dangerous for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidQuote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Well yes obviously I can judge fighters a lot better actually growing up watching them fight, as I said before I know very few of Ray Robinsons opponents and am just judging Robinson on how he looks in fights because he's from an era I wasn't born in. Also Jones been getting brutality stopped in fights something that never happened to Robinson. Have u just done a complete u turn on Forman was expecting a reply about his defeats?Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Foreman suffered embarrassing defeats. Jimmy Young was meant to be blown out and battered George into his first retirement and then 'The Duke' was in a poor run and brought in, to make Foreman look good.
And fair enough, you do not consider the Briggs fight a defeat; so that means you must consider the Schultz fight a defeat. Now I think even Jones Jr could still beat ol' Axel. But then maybe you did not see Schultz on TV and thus rate him up there with Ali, Louis et al! ;)
he called out Tyson repeatedly and Mike said "I'M NOT FIGHTING THAT BEAST!!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterForeman also wasted his prime years and missed out on big fights with Larry Holmes. Foreman's opponents were handpicked and he never wanted to face the best opposition in his comeback actively avoiding Lennox and Bows who were too big, young and dangerous for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidQuote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Well yes obviously I can judge fighters a lot better actually growing up watching them fight, as I said before I know very few of Ray Robinsons opponents and am just judging Robinson on how he looks in fights because he's from an era I wasn't born in. Also Jones been getting brutality stopped in fights something that never happened to Robinson. Have u just done a complete u turn on Forman was expecting a reply about his defeats?Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Foreman suffered embarrassing defeats. Jimmy Young was meant to be blown out and battered George into his first retirement and then 'The Duke' was in a poor run and brought in, to make Foreman look good.
And fair enough, you do not consider the Briggs fight a defeat; so that means you must consider the Schultz fight a defeat. Now I think even Jones Jr could still beat ol' Axel. But then maybe you did not see Schultz on TV and thus rate him up there with Ali, Louis et al! ;)
If he did then he said it as a mark of respect. Tyson fought more dangerous fighters at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbusthe called out Tyson repeatedly and Mike said "I'M NOT FIGHTING THAT BEAST!!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterForeman also wasted his prime years and missed out on big fights with Larry Holmes. Foreman's opponents were handpicked and he never wanted to face the best opposition in his comeback actively avoiding Lennox and Bows who were too big, young and dangerous for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidQuote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Well yes obviously I can judge fighters a lot better actually growing up watching them fight, as I said before I know very few of Ray Robinsons opponents and am just judging Robinson on how he looks in fights because he's from an era I wasn't born in. Also Jones been getting brutality stopped in fights something that never happened to Robinson. Have u just done a complete u turn on Forman was expecting a reply about his defeats?Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Foreman suffered embarrassing defeats. Jimmy Young was meant to be blown out and battered George into his first retirement and then 'The Duke' was in a poor run and brought in, to make Foreman look good.
And fair enough, you do not consider the Briggs fight a defeat; so that means you must consider the Schultz fight a defeat. Now I think even Jones Jr could still beat ol' Axel. But then maybe you did not see Schultz on TV and thus rate him up there with Ali, Louis et al! ;)
What are you talking about embarrassing defeats lol if young didn't get that knock down in the 12th it would of been a very close fight on the score cards and how the hell was the duke on a bad run he was 36-1 and the 1 lose he had he was winning on all 3 score cards before he got stopped by mercer who was unbeaten at the time. Jones Jr couldn't beat shit nowadays phenomenal talent in his prime but completely shit now he's past it, at least Forman didn't embarrass himself like Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidQuote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Well yes obviously I can judge fighters a lot better actually growing up watching them fight, as I said before I know very few of Ray Robinsons opponents and am just judging Robinson on how he looks in fights because he's from an era I wasn't born in. Also Jones been getting brutality stopped in fights something that never happened to Robinson. Have u just done a complete u turn on Forman was expecting a reply about his defeats?Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Foreman suffered embarrassing defeats. Jimmy Young was meant to be blown out and battered George into his first retirement and then 'The Duke' was in a poor run and brought in, to make Foreman look good.
And fair enough, you do not consider the Briggs fight a defeat; so that means you must consider the Schultz fight a defeat. Now I think even Jones Jr could still beat ol' Axel. But then maybe you did not see Schultz on TV and thus rate him up there with Ali, Louis et al! ;)
Tommy was chosen by George for exactly the reason Morrison lost to Mercer. Tommy ran out of steam and Foreman thought he would be able to do the same. Tommy boxed Foreman's ears off.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3What are you talking about embarrassing defeats lol if young didn't get that knock down in the 12th it would of been a very close fight on the score cards and how the hell was the duke on a bad run he was 36-1 and the 1 lose he had he was winning on all 3 score cards before he got stopped by mercer who was unbeaten at the time. Jones Jr couldn't beat shit nowadays phenomenal talent in his prime but completely shit now he's past it, at least Forman didn't embarrass himself like Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidQuote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Well yes obviously I can judge fighters a lot better actually growing up watching them fight, as I said before I know very few of Ray Robinsons opponents and am just judging Robinson on how he looks in fights because he's from an era I wasn't born in. Also Jones been getting brutality stopped in fights something that never happened to Robinson. Have u just done a complete u turn on Forman was expecting a reply about his defeats?Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Foreman suffered embarrassing defeats. Jimmy Young was meant to be blown out and battered George into his first retirement and then 'The Duke' was in a poor run and brought in, to make Foreman look good.
And fair enough, you do not consider the Briggs fight a defeat; so that means you must consider the Schultz fight a defeat. Now I think even Jones Jr could still beat ol' Axel. But then maybe you did not see Schultz on TV and thus rate him up there with Ali, Louis et al! ;)
I agree Morrison clearly won. I just found it strange how britkid can say someone who's 36-1 and only defeat is too an undefeated fighter is on a poor run. Would love to see what he calls a good run if that's poor.
Look what happened to Tommy afterwards he got stopped by Michael Bent and probably Tommy had a padded record to make him better than he really was.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Numbers do not always tell the whole story. After the devastating nature of the Mercer defeat, Morrison struggled with both Joe Hipp and Carl Williams, and thus it was thought he was a safe option for Foreman to flatten.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3What are you talking about embarrassing defeats lol if young didn't get that knock down in the 12th it would of been a very close fight on the score cards and how the hell was the duke on a bad run he was 36-1 and the 1 lose he had he was winning on all 3 score cards before he got stopped by mercer who was unbeaten at the time. Jones Jr couldn't beat shit nowadays phenomenal talent in his prime but completely shit now he's past it, at least Forman didn't embarrass himself like Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidQuote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Well yes obviously I can judge fighters a lot better actually growing up watching them fight, as I said before I know very few of Ray Robinsons opponents and am just judging Robinson on how he looks in fights because he's from an era I wasn't born in. Also Jones been getting brutality stopped in fights something that never happened to Robinson. Have u just done a complete u turn on Forman was expecting a reply about his defeats?Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish Jones Jr because you watched his fights, but reward Robinson because you did not? Surely then you should have Greb in there; as there no film of his fights...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Foreman suffered embarrassing defeats. Jimmy Young was meant to be blown out and battered George into his first retirement and then 'The Duke' was in a poor run and brought in, to make Foreman look good.
And fair enough, you do not consider the Briggs fight a defeat; so that means you must consider the Schultz fight a defeat. Now I think even Jones Jr could still beat ol' Axel. But then maybe you did not see Schultz on TV and thus rate him up there with Ali, Louis et al! ;)
As for Young; I know he gets a ton of kudos by the Internet community now a days, but he was an awful watch in the period. He had that shocker with Ali that got him some press and Foreman's management clearly thought if Shavers could get the job done a big Foreman KO would put further prestige on a Rumble in the Jungle rematch. The thinking was like the Morrison bout, Foreman was fighting damaged goods.
Not sure what that reflects although its an interesting question. I think what he did sets him apart but I'm not sure I'd attribute it to greatness as a fighter. It almost begs the question just where was that George version in his prime? It looks impressive because of age and time off but as the old saying goes, looks are deceiving. One thing is clear though. After Jimmy Young sent him off to find God, God must have changed trainers because the old George was a much better boxer then the prime George.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
But he would have to be right. He was much slower when he returned and his reflexes were eroded so he would have to concentrate on the fundamentals he learned as an amateur that he ignored in his prime through the clubbing years. Even with that his slide was pretty evident in the Moorer fight and Michael had him dead to rights.
As far as top 5, he has never appeared on mine but that comeback after 8 years most definitely gets him on a list.
I laughed at the time. In hindsight nothing but respect for what he achieved after 10 years out of the sport while competing against a truck load of soft touches and a handful of legit top competitors. He reinvented himself mentally and physically and became a household name. Compared to some chump named Wilder today..also a Olympic medalist..Foreman did it the hard way and earned his championship.
[QUOTE=Spicoli;1368469. Compared to some chump named Wilder today..[/QUOTE]
Mooooooo-FWA FWA FWA FWA………
110% agree!!!!!!!!
d.....ON.....tater tot......WHILE......duhhhh
If ever you are bored, with no other commitments, please post your top 100. That top 10 looka good.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidIt is very subjective; within reason there is no right or wrong. I did a list earlier this year. My top 10 went:Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterMaybe it is the fact that they peaked and still did well to some degree. Suprised Roberto Duran is not in it then.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidSo you punish fighters when they are past their prime...Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
Mayweather arguably 'peaked' a decade ago; and fought this year.
Hagler may of peaked in the late 70s, and no matter what was never quite so Marvelous post Sibson, yet fought on until 1987.
Louis peaked in the late 30s and fought on into the 50s.
Robinson peaked in the 40s and fought on onto the 60s.
Holmes possibly peaked in the Norton fight, certainly was not the same post Cooney and yet in 82 he was only a third of the way through his career (in time).
Foreman peaked in 73 yet was still fighting nearly 25 years later!
Hopkins peaked in the later part of the 20th century and certainly was never quite the same post Trinidad, yet he is still active a decade and a half later...
Each to their own but Floyd being top is just horrible.
10 Carlos Monzon
9 Benny Leonard
8 Ezzard Charles
7 Joe Louis
6 Muhammad Ali
5 Harry Greb
4 Bob Fitzsimmons
3 Roberto Duran
2 Henry Armstrong
1 Ray Robinson
Of those not listed on g3org3's 10:
Lil Floyd I had at 17; Hagler 34; Marciano 54; Holmes 44; Foreman 55; Lewis 76; Hopkins 26 and I did not have Calzaghe in the 100.
Spot on here Master. You can't leave people out for fighting on past their primes and ultimately being beaten by people who they would have schooled in their primes and then still have Robinson up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJoe Louis got smashed by Rocky. Foreman lost to Morrison, Briggs and Holyfield so these 2 top fighters fought on past their best. Not even mention Robinson fighting way past his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Top 10 all time is probablyQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterShow me your list, I could do with a laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3He did but if they had 10 fights how many times do you think Ali could pull that off ? 2 times maybe 3 at most, Forman is ranked higher in my all time list than AliQuote:
Originally Posted by impHe did...but ali beat him in his primeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomABSOLUTELYQuote:
Originally Posted by imp
It was a call of redemption, as everyone had thought George to be 'A Joke' when he made his
announcement to come back.
He accomplished more than Cassius Clay did {later in his career} by 10 Fold.
1. Floyd mayweather
2. Marvin hagler
3. Joe Louis
4. Ray Robinson
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Larry Holmes
7. George Forman
8. Joe calzaghe
9. Lenox Lewis
10. Bernard Hopkins
I know my top list is probably different to a lot but I'm pretty harsh on fighters. I would love to add Roy Jones, Tyson etc but if fighters chose to fight past there prime they need to take the good with the bad.
You are also giving too much respect for undefeated record and surprised you did not have Sven Ottke on your list.
IMO Robinson is the greatest ever so for me when we talk about atg's, yes there has to be longevity but if they do fight on too long we have to consider their primes when compiling these lists and not the shadow of their former selves they go on to become.
As for the achievements of Foreman? Absolutely phenomenal!! And to me he is the second greatest HW of all time to Ali. I read earlier someone saying if they fought 10 times..... Ali was a master of game plans and was also amazing at adjusting to styles but he actually told us what he'd do to Foreman before the fight and then carried it out pretty much to the word and Foreman couldn't change his gameplan despite being warned about what Ali would do.
Anyway I don't want to sound like I am taking anything away from George, he is a true legend and to hold the greatest title in the greatest division in what was probably the 2 greatest eras of that division is one of the greatest achievements in the history of the sport.
It added to his legacy the fact he was the oldest champion was something special. MM was a great fighter but he beat a Holyfeild that had some medical issues and that the best he ever became. Foreman was a great champion but at the end of the day he could not defend the belt much. His best wins are Frazier, Norton, Lyle and MM pretty great wins but him not being able to defend the belt much kinda effects his rating for me. I have Holyfeild, Lewis, and Ali cearly ahead of him but he is somewhere in the top 10 his comeback gave him more legacy and better quiltey win to his resume.