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So it is about 8 hours after the fight and I'm still confused about the SD.
Now the guy I thought and wanted to win, won!
I cannot see in what world Quigg is ahead on a score card.
You have to give Frampton (and I did) the first 6 with maybe a 10-10 in there.
How do you give any of them to Quigg who barely threw a punch?
Bemused and I'd love to see the guys card and see what rounds he gave who.
I had it 7-4-1 for frampton. No say quigg should have had a decision on any score card.
That was how I had it, shit fight though and a disappointing undercardQuote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Actually looking at it again. There is no way I could give 12th round to quiggQuote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
I had Frampton winning 117-116
My scorecards
Fram - Quigg
- 10-10
- 10-9
- 10-10
- 10-9
- 10-9
- 10-9
- 9-10
- 10-10
- 9-10
- 10-10
- 9-10
- 10-9
My line of thinking was that I wouldn't have had Frampton losing many rounds in the first 6 rounds, but I scored them 10-10's as I didn't think there was enough superiority to warrant an extra point over the opponent.
Frampton was fucked on his stool between the 11th and 12th, but his trainer then told him it was the last round and he hadn't realised. This gave him the boost he needed. He thought " I can do one more round, fuck it." So he came out in the 12th and moved really well and fought an excellent 3 minutes. Quigg couldn't pin him down , and yeah Frampton won the round.
Compare that to what Gallagher told his man after the 8th and that tells you how you should be communicating with your fighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
I try and avoid 10-10 rounds unless it is action packed and no one deserves to lose the round.
But the rounds (1-6) like last night when one isn't throwing at all and the other is hitting gloves... The guy hitting gloves gets the 10-9 for me because he is attempting to make it a fight and it is not his fault the other guy is refusing to engage.
Scott Quigg made that a bad fight and deserved to lose!
I never like to score 10-10 rounds and Frampton did do more in the first 6 rounds than Quigg who hardly threw and landed anything. I do not know what he was playing at for a fighter who trains hard he should have let it all go from round 1.
It was a dismal fight. The yanks are going to think our fighters are crap with Fury and this Quiampton show.
I never did a card and have not seen the final tally but I can easily see several of the first 5 being dead even. Was a punch even thrown over the first two rounds? Can one give a guy a round because he appeared to come forward? Its still a 10 point must system.
Ps-Its being reported that Quiggs jaw is broken??? It sure didn't look like it after the fight or during the interview.
https://mobile.twitter.com/EddieHear...79147328827392Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Definitely broke his jaw. Hearn posted this on his Twitter.
Quigg broke the jaw from an uppercut in the 4th rounds and it was swelling up in the dressing room. It does not explain the slow start from Scott though.
Exactly. Shit fight with neither man taking much risk or daring to be great as Ali would say.Quote:
Originally Posted by BatmanThat was how I had it, shit fight though and a disappointing undercardQuote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Frampton won and the Leo Santa Cruz Martinez fight as well as their undercard fight made this one look even more dull.
Began a rewatch on a slow Sunday morning. Then stopped a few rounds in, once was more than enough :-X. When I started scoring fights I'd often end up with many 10-10 rounds but now always look for distinction no matter the bore. Even if its scoring by the minute or something. Had Frampton sweeping first seven rounds. It wasn't much but he was probing, jabbing and controlled the back foot as well as initiating whatever action there was.
It wasn't that bad a fight with a second watch, it just didn't live up to what it should have been. The last four rounds were what the 12 were meant to be.
Quigg was genuinely shocked when told Sky have him 6-1 down. Bad tactics.
That is all true, but Quigg was throwing nothing but blocking punches so honestly do not know how Scott could think he was in the fight. Frampton just had to initiate the attack early and he was winning the rounds and piling easy points. How could trainer and fighter get it so wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Ha have I made Quimpton a thing? can we keep using it?
there were a couple of rounds quigg didn't through a punch
can that be a 10 - 8?
The way I see it, without knocks downs , for it to be a 10-8 round, you have to be completely dominant and landing some telling blows. That was never the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
You could also ask if the Work Frampton did in those rounds warranted 10 points?
Can you win rounds by landing 5 or 10 jabs , even if you are busy and hitting arms with the rest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraThe way I see it, without knocks downs , for it to be a 10-8 round, you have to be completely dominant and landing some telling blows. That was never the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
You could also ask if the Work Frampton did in those rounds warranted 10 points?
Can you win rounds by landing 5 or 10 jabs , even if you are busy and hitting arms with the rest?
I personally think that even though Frampton was landing as few punches as quigg in the first six it was Frampton who was trying to land punches and make a fight of it so he deserved the rounds
if quigg had have come out with the same attitude as Frampton then we would have had a fight, instead it was very dull for 6 rounds
think of all the money spend by the public to watch the fight, rounds were scored to the fighter trying to engage, and rightly so
there were times where quigg would land a punch and then jump a 3 or 4 feet back, well out of range for both fighters, there was never any intention to follow anything up
it was clear his tactic was to come on later on, and to give him his dues he tried from round 8 onwards, which cant have been easy with a broken jaw
It's a fair comment and I know that most people agree with you. I can accept people giving the rounds 10-9 to Frampton because he had the more positive attitude, but no way 10-8.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraThe way I see it, without knocks downs , for it to be a 10-8 round, you have to be completely dominant and landing some telling blows. That was never the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
You could also ask if the Work Frampton did in those rounds warranted 10 points?
Can you win rounds by landing 5 or 10 jabs , even if you are busy and hitting arms with the rest?
I personally think that even though Frampton was landing as few punches as quigg in the first six it was Frampton who was trying to land punches and make a fight of it so he deserved the rounds
if quigg had have come out with the same attitude as Frampton then we would have had a fight, instead it was very dull for 6 rounds
think of all the money spend by the public to watch the fight, rounds were scored to the fighter trying to engage, and rightly so
I accept Quigg was too negative , but imagine how he felt hearing he's 6 rounds down and he's hardly been hit because everything has been blocked by his gloves. (having said that , he got his jaw broke !)
I acknowledge that Frampton was the deserved winner.
I wanted quigg to win by the way, so there's absolutely no bias in my opinion
I know, and I think you make very fair points. I didn't mind Frampton winning, I quite like him, (Although if he tries to fight Selby at the weight above, he will get seriously embarrassed).
another pay per view?Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
I booked the fight late and ended up paying £20
I saw most of the McDonnell fight before it which was a mismatch and then the main even
I didnt get my value for money
To have a 10-8 round, without a knockdown, you need to really batter your opponent. Frampton didn't even really dominate the early rounds, he was winning them by default.
This fight did not deliver the goods did it ! very poor very disappointing hell I am SO GLAD I never got any
tickets, nether fighter wanted to commit 4 rounds of some action for all the talk a fight devoid of action more of a sparring session, Shit what a let down.:vd:
I reckon there were 2 rounds where quigg didn't throw a punch
There should be something in the rules saying you need to throw at least 1 punch in a round otherwise its a 10-8 round
if there isn't already
There's no way there was a round where Quigg literally didn't throw a punch.
Awful tactics. Bet he's kicking himself today
Frampton-Quigg: CompuBox Breaks Down Their Punch Stats - Boxing News
10 punches in the first? pretty lame
he landed 2 in total in the first 3 rounds
most of his punches at that time were thrown without any real intent to land
You should ignore what punches "landed" when looking at these stats. You can count what's thrown but it's impossible to get an accurate read on what landed.
What those stats do prove though is Frampton was throwing way more punches than Quigg early even though his output was poor too.
when I was watching the fight I didn't think Quigg had landed anything in a number of rounds, i haven't watched it again but 2 punches in the first 3 sounds about right
after the first the commentators were saying theres nothing in the round, neither are landing so its a 10-10
well I was arguing (sat on my couch on my own) that quigg wasn't landing at all and hardly throwing
I think it was watts card had Frampton up by just 1 or 2 up after 7 and then quigg in the lead after 11, I was thinking - what the fuck are you on about Jim
I thought Frampton won the first 7
I blame Joe Gallagher for Quigg doing nothing early, other fighters from his stable have fought in a similar way.
Once Quigg was told that Sky have him miles behind, even with a broken jaw, he turned into a different animal.
a little while ago all Gallaghers fighters seemed to just walk forward with their hands up and chin down, about the time crolla lost to Matthews
at least they have progressed from that
There is no such rule but even if there was you cant call a 10/8 because Quigg threw nothing and Carl threw 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
If not for the little flare up in spots over the last 5, this fight would have rivaled Wlad/Fury in lack of output.
You see , this is the problem with Punch stats, they can give a very distorted view . However, if you say ignore punches landed, then you have to ignore the whole fucking lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I know what you're saying about an accurate read, but it's not going to be a million miles away.
so if the anomalies are averaged out , it is still the same pattern.
in my book I think the stat for Jabs thrown is of little consequence. Surely the most important stats are Power punches thrown and MOST importantly power punches Landed. Quigg landed half as many again as Frampton.
so some people (not you) want to give a 10-8 round to Frampton where he outpunches Quigg by 3, 4 or 5 punches , but not give a 10-8 for Quigg where he outpunches Frampton by 15?
Overall Quigg out landed Frampton through the course of the fight and his success percentages were better, hence he was more economic and accurate. Does make Quigg a better Boxer?
I have to say that I was pretty stunned by the low percentage accuracy of both fighters . pretty piss poor for 2 "World Champions".
btw, I'm not trying to push my "Quigg won the fight" argument here, just pointing out the value of these stats.
I think the sky commentary was blatantly bias for their fighter. It was obvious the fight was not close and they did not want their manufactured fighter to lose. They were hinting at rematch when the fight was near the end.
Punch stats can't determine a fight.
My point is - you can accurately count what is thrown but not what landed. So in this case, Frampton was throwing 5x the punches early doors even though his output was poor. The geezer moving his hands looks like he's winning even if not landing anything.
Quigg gifted him the early rounds.... although to counter myself (:D) you can argue that had Quigg fought more aggressive early he could have got himself chinned.
I think it is a bit unfair to call Quigg " manufactured " . He is clearly made of the right stuff to have got where he has through some awkward and decent opponents and to have soldiered on despite his Jaw on Saturday. I still think he is more than capable of beating and even stopping Frampton, but he won't do fighting like he did this time round. I think dull and over anxious though they both seemed it is not uncommon for fights like this to end up stultifying stutter fests, where each fighter is so weary of the others power/skill, that they overthink everything and forget what got them into that position in the first place. It was a close fight and while Barry and Shane McGuigan might insist that Carl walked it by a mile the truth is he won a close fight. He got rocked himself and was as much to blame as Quigg for the early snore fest. The fact he was made to miss consistently early on has clearly niggled them because Shane thinks he is the second coming of Manny Steward the way he goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I think that's a bit unfair on Shane mate - he seems OK imo and is working with some decent fighters at the mo. If you compare what he was telling Frampton in between rounds compared to what Gallagher was telling Quigg (coupled with his crazy plan for the fight!), I think Shane was streets ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzI think it is a bit unfair to call Quigg " manufactured " . He is clearly made of the right stuff to have got where he has through some awkward and decent opponents and to have soldiered on despite his Jaw on Saturday. I still think he is more than capable of beating and even stopping Frampton, but he won't do fighting like he did this time round. I think dull and over anxious though they both seemed it is not uncommon for fights like this to end up stultifying stutter fests, where each fighter is so weary of the others power/skill, that they overthink everything and forget what got them into that position in the first place. It was a close fight and while Barry and Shane McGuigan might insist that Carl walked it by a mile the truth is he won a close fight. He got rocked himself and was as much to blame as Quigg for the early snore fest. The fact he was made to miss consistently early on has clearly niggled them because Shane thinks he is the second coming of Manny Steward the way he goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master