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The Myth of the British National Health Servi
When the NHS was formed in 1948, it was one of the greatest social achievements of any nation in the history of humanity. Setting up a healthcare system, for all citizens, free at the point of delivery was superb. The fact it was set up under an overarching set of Guiding Principles also illustrated the morality and aspiration of the scheme.
Britain in 1948 was a very different place to today. The country was nearly bankrupt following the war, the Empire was dissolving and malnutrition and life threatening sickness were rife. Average life expectancy for men was 66, the greatest issues were pneumonia, meningitis, polio and child mortality. This was the first time in the world that such a system has been set up.
fast forward nearly 70 years and things are very different;
Life expectancy is well over 70 now, and there has been a massive increase in palliative and complex treatments. These are much more expensive and time consuming than 'simply' curing the previous diseases which people suffered from.
our ageing population means we have already passed the mathematical point in time when working people (who pay tax to fund the system) have been outnumbered by non-working or retired people who no longer pay anything in. It is not relevant to say that they have already paid in for their working lifetimes because the system is not a 'bankable' one. In other words, money goes in every year and money goes out every year .... people do not build a fund of monies for treatment
It is a public point of grievance that non U.K. Citizens, foreigners and refugees etc are able to access the system equally despite having never paid anything towards it. Nobody really knows how many of these do so.
This means that it is essentially impossible to adequately budget for the services, nobody really knows how much next year will cost, nor where the pinch points will be in the service.
it is a fact that the Service has moved away from simply treating life threatening illnesses, which is what it was intended to do, towards palliative and lifestyle issues; dementia, Alzheimer's, smoking and alcohol related issues, obesity etc. It was not meant for that. Even today, the NHS is superb at dealing with emergencies, but not so good at non-emergencies.
Worst of all, the NHS has become a political football. The public and media 'love' the NHS, it is 'the best health service in the world', the 'envy of other countries', it is 'precious', everybody who works in the NHS is a 'hard working angel'. The media and politicians always trumpet they will 'save the NHS', or its 'in crisis' at an existential humanitarian level.
having personally worked on the fringes of the service for 20 years, and my wife has worked within it for 25, I can confidently say that therefore as many lazy good for nothing tossers working there as in any other big organisation. The leadership is sorely lacking, and the system is institutionally set up to resist change and innovation. Being run by the government really is a fate worth than death too.
Final salary pensions are pretty extinct now, because of black and white maths and also various government robberies of funds. Longevity and an imbalance in age demographics means they are financially simply unsustainable. Surely the same logic remorselessly applies to the NHS too?
Currently, we have a system that was fit for purpose in 1948. Now it's badly led, it's doing things it wasn't intended to do, it is simply too big and cumbersome to manage properly, it is very inefficient .... but it has become a 'holy grail' in the minds of the media, politicians and the public.
where to go?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Oh this will be fun....I won't comment because I already know Beanz will whine about me being American....but I sure will watch this clusterfuck of a thread. (It'll be a clusterfuck because how people react, I actually agree with you X).
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
So the myth is? That it's no good?
From a patient perspective I disagree. The service I've had personally and witnessed on behalf of family members is and always has been fantastic.
Also, for what it's worth. For every 'Best health service in the World', there's a 'falling apart at the seams' to go with it.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
A few years back I was in hospital gettin my shoulder looked at, a nurse got talking to me and lets say she wasn't the most politically correct of people, in her eyes the foreigners were fucking everything up because of the way they turn up at A&E with colds and headaches.
I know that isn't really what your post was about but you could clearly see how much it was getting to her.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
So the myth is? That it's no good?
From a patient perspective I disagree. The service I've had personally and witnessed on behalf of family members is and always has been fantastic.
Also, for what it's worth. For every 'Best health service in the World', there's a 'falling apart at the seams' to go with it.
Is immigration not a factor in that?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
NHS is piss. Health and safety laws are utter white. Everyone's an alcoholic, Chavs with their socks.rolled.up, the weather sucks and its too expensive.
Plus immigrants have ruined the country.
Oh and everyone.pretty much hates everyone: Welsh/Scottish hate English and.vice.versa.
Plus cricket sucks.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
A huge chunk of advanced countries' healthcare budgets go to treating diabetes and other obesity-related diseases. It's a problem for every healthcare system.
Privatising the NHS is not the answer. Contrary to popular belief, privately supplied healthcare is far more expensive than a single payer system, two or three times even.
But privatising the NHS is exactly what's going to happen and the public 's erroneous belief that privatised business is more efficient than government-run business will mean that the public eventually have to pay huge healthcare costs. We'll be like America where families are impoverished and bankrupted when they lose their healthcare due to losing their job or they reach lifetime limits on coverage or their continuing healthcare is denied or any of the myriad other reasons that make medical bills the overwhelming number one reason that Americans go bankrupt.
The government is going to keep on giving more and more parts of the system over to the private sector who will massively reduce coverage and treatments and take huge profits out of the system. Then eventually the government will say that despite all the privatisation of the system, costs have spiralled out of control and the only possible option is to now privatise the whole thing.
And whichever government gets elected, conservative or labour, the same privatisation thing happens. Here's an example of what happened the last time a Labour government was in power:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-2012-m25-pfi
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
NHS is a beautiful concept and we should continue to support, fund, and improve it. The fact that we are getting older is down largely to having a great system because of early intervention and prevention. NHS is truly world class in what it does.
However the NHS can improve and it does waste money. i believe 50% of its costs go on non-front line services like senior management, it could use the voluntary sector more and there are too many Trusts. There would be greater savings if they commissioned centrally.
Car park charges are a rip off.
The NHS rely on non-UK staff and without them it would be worse off. The nurse you met needs to get another job if she feels that way.
I think the Tories will run NHS to the ground and then privatise it.
Do not privatise it, they are not more efficient and effective. They waste as much money as the public sector but give it to their friends. I know as I work in one. It is horrible.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Oh this will be fun....I won't comment because I already know Beanz will whine about me being American....but I sure will watch this clusterfuck of a thread. (It'll be a clusterfuck because how people react, I actually agree with you X).
If it was not for the NHS my Mrs would be dead. If it was not for the NHS my daughter would have died whilst her mother was in a coma. If it wasn't for the NHS then my three grandchildren would not be here. None of that has anything to do with whining or you being American, but you know according the Brock the NHS is piss. So sit back and wait for the clusterfuck if that is your idea of an evening well spent.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
When the NHS was formed in 1948, it was one of the greatest social achievements of any nation in the history of humanity. Setting up a healthcare system, for all citizens, free at the point of delivery was superb. The fact it was set up under an overarching set of Guiding Principles also illustrated the morality and aspiration of the scheme.
Britain in 1948 was a very different place to today. The country was nearly bankrupt following the war, the Empire was dissolving and malnutrition and life threatening sickness were rife. Average life expectancy for men was 66, the greatest issues were pneumonia, meningitis, polio and child mortality. This was the first time in the world that such a system has been set up.
fast forward nearly 70 years and things are very different;
Life expectancy is well over 70 now, and there has been a massive increase in palliative and complex treatments. These are much more expensive and time consuming than 'simply' curing the previous diseases which people suffered from.
our ageing population means we have already passed the mathematical point in time when working people (who pay tax to fund the system) have been outnumbered by non-working or retired people who no longer pay anything in. It is not relevant to say that they have already paid in for their working lifetimes because the system is not a 'bankable' one. In other words, money goes in every year and money goes out every year .... people do not build a fund of monies for treatment
It is a public point of grievance that non U.K. Citizens, foreigners and refugees etc are able to access the system equally despite having never paid anything towards it. Nobody really knows how many of these do so.
This means that it is essentially impossible to adequately budget for the services, nobody really knows how much next year will cost, nor where the pinch points will be in the service.
it is a fact that the Service has moved away from simply treating life threatening illnesses, which is what it was intended to do, towards palliative and lifestyle issues; dementia, Alzheimer's, smoking and alcohol related issues, obesity etc. It was not meant for that. Even today, the NHS is superb at dealing with emergencies, but not so good at non-emergencies.
Worst of all, the NHS has become a political football. The public and media 'love' the NHS, it is 'the best health service in the world', the 'envy of other countries', it is 'precious', everybody who works in the NHS is a 'hard working angel'. The media and politicians always trumpet they will 'save the NHS', or its 'in crisis' at an existential humanitarian level.
having personally worked on the fringes of the service for 20 years, and my wife has worked within it for 25, I can confidently say that therefore as many lazy good for nothing tossers working there as in any other big organisation. The leadership is sorely lacking, and the system is institutionally set up to resist change and innovation. Being run by the government really is a fate worth than death too.
Final salary pensions are pretty extinct now, because of black and white maths and also various government robberies of funds. Longevity and an imbalance in age demographics means they are financially simply unsustainable. Surely the same logic remorselessly applies to the NHS too?
Currently, we have a system that was fit for purpose in 1948. Now it's badly led, it's doing things it wasn't intended to do, it is simply too big and cumbersome to manage properly, it is very inefficient .... but it has become a 'holy grail' in the minds of the media, politicians and the public.
where to go?
Principles do not stop being sound because it is no longer 1948. You are right that it has become a political football but is is also an institution that people right across the political spectrum actually care about preserving. The fact that successive governments have undermined it's efficiency in order to cook the books and provide sweetners for companies their daddies own or whom will have them on the board after retiring from politics does not help matters. So much money could be saved if the rot did not start at the top. It's a kind of inverted craziness that the populace has taken to blaming everyone but the people who were elected to manage and plan for a future that they seem happy to wantonly destroy in order to make a political point. It is an ideological kind of war that feeds the fats cats. It is and always has been a class war. So the peasants dragged into factories despite being quite happy being self sufficient are now enslaved by private contractors who have replaced the former Lord of the Manor with Some toff who inherited the directorship. Breaking the service apart is a microcosm of the selfish attitude that the Tories have and New Labour tried to ape under Blair. It is now seen as a weakness and stupid idea to even think about things like social justice because the corporate mindset has now poisoned things so much that people living longer rather being seen as a triumph of the NHS is now seen as 'forcing people to live longer'
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co...cking-our.html
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
1st off, as a one off, Beanz is right to now be addressing me as The Brock. Not Brock. He has learned to address me in a royal manner, as I do so well deserve to be, as I have utterly earned it by my gracious and magnanimous character, demeanor and disposition, and that is without even mentioning my sanctimonious persona, or my merciful.reluctance to.resort to cruelty, malice, or meanness.
Now then, as grateful as Beanz clearly and most justifiably is to the NHS for the family reasons he has provided here--and that goes without saying that, in all honesty (and not without the least bit of sincerity) every single one of us would WITHOUT QUESTION feel in equal measure precisely that gratefulness he expressed above were WE to have been the beneficiaries of that service he was provided--it is also noteworthy that even in the poorest of countries (the UK not falling within that category, at least not before 2030 anyway) there is indeed (as amazing as it may seem to some westerners) an actually surprisingly adequate and well-equipped health care system.which delays.rather well if I may say so myself with similar urgent health.matters, rendering the argument that the NHS is any kind.of unique godsend etc. quite null and.void, to say the very least.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Oh this will be fun....I won't comment because I already know Beanz will whine about me being American....but I sure will watch this clusterfuck of a thread. (It'll be a clusterfuck because how people react, I actually agree with you X).
If it was not for the NHS my Mrs would be dead. If it was not for the NHS my daughter would have died whilst her mother was in a coma. If it wasn't for the NHS then my three grandchildren would not be here. None of that has anything to do with whining or you being American, but you know according the Brock the NHS is piss. So sit back and wait for the clusterfuck if that is your idea of an evening well spent.
Despite my antigovernment stances I do favor a safety net for people. If we weren't so quick to kill one another we could accomplish great things. No more ZOG wars say no to the ZOG
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
1st off, as a one off, Beanz is right to now be addressing me as The Brock. Not Brock. He has learned to address me in a royal manner, as I do so well deserve to be, as I have utterly earned it by my gracious and magnanimous character, demeanor and disposition, and that is without even mentioning my sanctimonious persona, or my merciful.reluctance to.resort to cruelty, malice, or meanness.
Now then, as grateful as Beanz clearly and most justifiably is to the NHS for the family reasons he has provided here--and that goes without saying that, in all honesty (and not without the least bit of sincerity) every single one of us would WITHOUT QUESTION feel in equal measure precisely that gratefulness he expressed above were WE to have been the beneficiaries of that service he was provided--it is also noteworthy that even in the poorest of countries (the UK not falling within that category, at least not before 2030 anyway) there is indeed (as amazing as it may seem to some westerners) an actually surprisingly adequate and well-equipped health care system.which delays.rather well if I may say so myself with similar urgent health.matters, rendering the argument that the NHS is any kind.of unique godsend etc. quite null and.void, to say the very least.
Nowhere else would she have been operated on so quickly by one of the top neurosurgeons in the country with our limited financial resources. That alone makes the NHS much more than the piss that you label it as. The NHS is unique. Just because you do not understand or appreciate that does not make it not so.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
1st off, as a one off, Beanz is right to now be addressing me as The Brock. Not Brock. He has learned to address me in a royal manner, as I do so well deserve to be, as I have utterly earned it by my gracious and magnanimous character, demeanor and disposition, and that is without even mentioning my sanctimonious persona, or my merciful.reluctance to.resort to cruelty, malice, or meanness.
Now then, as grateful as Beanz clearly and most justifiably is to the NHS for the family reasons he has provided here--and that goes without saying that, in all honesty (and not without the least bit of sincerity) every single one of us would WITHOUT QUESTION feel in equal measure precisely that gratefulness he expressed above were WE to have been the beneficiaries of that service he was provided--it is also noteworthy that even in the poorest of countries (the UK not falling within that category, at least not before 2030 anyway) there is indeed (as amazing as it may seem to some westerners) an actually surprisingly adequate and well-equipped health care system.which delays.rather well if I may say so myself with similar urgent health.matters, rendering the argument that the NHS is any kind.of unique godsend etc. quite null and.void, to say the very least.
Nowhere else would she have been operated on so quickly by one of the top neurosurgeons in the country with our limited financial resources. That alone makes the NHS much more than the piss that you label it as. The NHS is unique. Just because you do not understand or appreciate that does not make it not so.
I do not expect that you compared the speed with which they attended to your families urgent needs with the potential speed of other systems around the world, and you'd be surprised how quickly Singapore, Taiwan, Brunei, UAE or even Canada's systems may have responded in equally speedy measure.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
1st off, as a one off, Beanz is right to now be addressing me as The Brock. Not Brock. He has learned to address me in a royal manner, as I do so well deserve to be, as I have utterly earned it by my gracious and magnanimous character, demeanor and disposition, and that is without even mentioning my sanctimonious persona, or my merciful.reluctance to.resort to cruelty, malice, or meanness.
Now then, as grateful as Beanz clearly and most justifiably is to the NHS for the family reasons he has provided here--and that goes without saying that, in all honesty (and not without the least bit of sincerity) every single one of us would WITHOUT QUESTION feel in equal measure precisely that gratefulness he expressed above were WE to have been the beneficiaries of that service he was provided--it is also noteworthy that even in the poorest of countries (the UK not falling within that category, at least not before 2030 anyway) there is indeed (as amazing as it may seem to some westerners) an actually surprisingly adequate and well-equipped health care system.which delays.rather well if I may say so myself with similar urgent health.matters, rendering the argument that the NHS is any kind.of unique godsend etc. quite null and.void, to say the very least.
Nowhere else would she have been operated on so quickly by one of the top neurosurgeons in the country with our limited financial resources. That alone makes the NHS much more than the piss that you label it as. The NHS is unique. Just because you do not understand or appreciate that does not make it not so.
I do not expect that you compared the speed with which they attended to your families urgent needs with the potential speed of other systems around the world, and you'd be surprised how quickly Singapore, Taiwan, Brunei, UAE or even Canada's systems may have responded in equally speedy measure.
Do not expect -potential- may have- none of these are anything but supposition so your entire post is meaningless. You do this a lot you just dribble out stuff and pretend that it is debate. I am talking about real life experience of a NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE being able to utilise the best person for the Job in the place he was needed at that time. You are pretending that not having to fill out a mountain of forms or travel to find the right neurosurgeon or hospital like we would have elsewhere is irelevant because then you can justify the following stupid statement.
The NHS is piss. Tell us more how is the NHS piss. That from you personal experience? Something you read? Something you want to be true?
It's weird it seems that a few americans don't really give a f**k about many things and are quite offended or nonplussed when others do.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Health care is a human right and should be free at the point of use for all. I remember as a teenager going to hospital and the doctor right there and then said they could operate. I procrastinated and never did the surgery, but now if I wanted to do that it would cost me about 8,000 pounds out here. I wish I did do it then and missed a great opportunity. The UK in that respect is great. However, the last time I went to a doctor they tried referring me to a private clinic for something that could have been easily handled without going private. I saw that as a sign that things were changing there.
What the politicians have done to the health care system is criminal and at the same time they reduce corporation taxes and continue to allow the rich to avoid paying any taxes. The shortfall could easily come from that and instead they purposely hand contracts to their friends. It is criminal and that is how they think. The rich must get richer and the price worth paying is the collapse of the NHS.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Nonplussed come.on, B. I'm never nonplussed plus you suck at math. NHS is piss because patients have to 'self diagnose' and then go to the doctor for unknown conditions. NHS is only good for known conditions. Nonplus, NHS has been very selective about who gets the "best treatment". If you went private you'd certainly get less cancellations as well. Doctors have zero training on new, rare diseases.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Nonplussed come.on, B. I'm never nonplussed plus you suck at math. NHS is piss because patients have to 'self diagnose' and then go to the doctor for unknown conditions. NHS is only good for known conditions. Nonplus, NHS has been very selective about who gets the "best treatment". If you went private you'd certainly get less cancellations as well. Doctors have zero training on new, rare diseases.
Why should people be forced to turn to private health care when health care is a human right? The money to pay for the system is there, but instead you would rather the super rich not pay their share of tax which is what has happened. Then the same elite get health contracts on the cheap and lo and behold they get even richer and ordinary people lose out even more. 'Tax them for it' cry the masses, 'Give us back our health care!'. 'No' says Brock, 'They worked hard for that money and it is their right to park the profits in an offshore tax haven'.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
What right do you or anyone have to decide what others should "fairly" pay? Or to decide for others how altruistic they "should" be?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Half of Americans aged 27-37 on an income of 24,000 dollars of less do not have health coverage. My point is that with your philosophy where the rich avoid paying taxes you have massive inequality and human suffering. In a system where people do not have health coverage they struggle to get treatment and serious conditions do not get diagnosed. To deny them health care coverage because of an ideology where money (all money is created by banks) should remain in the pockets of the wealthy and distribution be denied is essentially an evil one. That is where a system like the NHS is necessary and it is necessary because of the difference it can make to the lives of ordinary people who cannot afford to spend 10,000 dollars a year covering their family.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
I never said there is no massive inequality nor did I say that millions of people cannot get treatment. Please tell.me how you/anyone would implement this massive collection of funds via taxation of the billionaires, into some kind of health service apparatus. So, step one is ...... "_____________{place someone's name here} unilaterally declares that _____________[place the type of billionaire in the blank, e.g. a sudden Power Ball winner/a poor man who suddenly inherited mega-millions/a diligent entrepreneur/a genius inventor/a conniving oil tycoon, etc.] Should starting RIGHT NOW no longer avail him/herself of ______________(place specific bullet point of tax code here) in order to treat _______________ (place specific G.A.A.P. accounting scenario here) as an extraordinary circumstance/unusual and/or catastrophic event, thereby qualifying for a tax credit...."
That was Step 1. Umm,........ Yeah, that would.go over easily through the Legislative Branch, i.e. THOUSANDS OF LAWMAKERS AND STAGES OF VOTING ON PROPOSED BILLS, ETC.............
Do you realize we have not even gone to Step 2 yet? Redistributing this newfound money? This is worse than a fairy tale.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Nonplussed come.on, B. I'm never nonplussed plus you suck at math. NHS is piss because patients have to 'self diagnose' and then go to the doctor for unknown conditions. NHS is only good for known conditions. Nonplus, NHS has been very selective about who gets the "best treatment". If you went private you'd certainly get less cancellations as well. Doctors have zero training on new, rare diseases.
This is all complete bollocks. Typical arrogance from someone who despite having never used the service pretends that they are some kind of authority. You don't have to self diagnose at all, what do you think examinations, scans etc are for? Idiot.The whole point of the NHS is that it is not selective about who gets the best treatment. The idea that doctors have zero training on new rare diseases Is also just complete fabrication from you. You just make stuff up. Why? Seriously what does it matter to you that the NHS is so loved in a country you look down your nose at?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
I never said there is no massive inequality nor did I say that millions of people cannot get treatment. Please tell.me how you/anyone would implement this massive collection of funds via taxation of the billionaires, into some kind of health service apparatus. So, step one is ...... "_____________{place someone's name here} unilaterally declares that _____________[place the type of billionaire in the blank, e.g. a sudden Power Ball winner/a poor man who suddenly inherited mega-millions/a diligent entrepreneur/a genius inventor/a conniving oil tycoon, etc.] Should starting RIGHT NOW no longer avail him/herself of ______________(place specific bullet point of tax code here) in order to treat _______________ (place specific G.A.A.P. accounting scenario here) as an extraordinary circumstance/unusual and/or catastrophic event, thereby qualifying for a tax credit...."
That was Step 1. Umm,........ Yeah, that would.go over easily through the Legislative Branch, i.e. THOUSANDS OF LAWMAKERS AND STAGES OF VOTING ON PROPOSED BILLS, ETC.............
Do you realize we have not even gone to Step 2 yet? Redistributing this newfound money? This is worse than a fairy tale.
In America it does seem to be a lost cause because the system is completely corrupt, but in the UK they have an opportunity if people will get behind Jeremy Corbyn. All it takes is an increase in the tax rates for corporations and the elite. The rich have quadrupled their wealth in recent years, so the money is there, but it has all been given to them whilst simultaneously stripping state services and privatising. Get it back through inheritance, closing loopholes, and declaring war on tax havens.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
@Gandalf believe me I wish everyone could afford coverage.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Nonplussed come.on, B. I'm never nonplussed plus you suck at math. NHS is piss because patients have to 'self diagnose' and then go to the doctor for unknown conditions. NHS is only good for known conditions. Nonplus, NHS has been very selective about who gets the "best treatment". If you went private you'd certainly get less cancellations as well. Doctors have zero training on new, rare diseases.
This is all complete bollocks. Typical arrogance from someone who despite having never used the service pretends that they are some kind of authority. You don't have to self diagnose at all, what do you think examinations, scans etc are for? Idiot.The whole point of the NHS is that it is not selective about who gets the best treatment. The idea that doctors have zero training on new rare diseases Is also just complete fabrication from you. You just make stuff up. Why? Seriously what does it matter to you that the NHS is so loved in a country you look down your nose at?
You are 2 pork pies short of a picnic mate. I have direct experience with your NHS. Have you no empathy for the vast numbers of elderly, vulnerable people left on trolleys for hours and hours? Are you that heartless, you nasty little.man? Is the utter lack of diagnosis and the piss-poor lack of treatment and even drugs OK with you? Try and question some of your stubborn and long-held beliefs. Mate the NHS is sinking. You can't even reform it. Take a look at what France, Germany or Holland does. What a beautiful mix of public and private! Your Chancellor is writing checks to this communist-style monstrosity.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Nonplussed come.on, B. I'm never nonplussed plus you suck at math. NHS is piss because patients have to 'self diagnose' and then go to the doctor for unknown conditions. NHS is only good for known conditions. Nonplus, NHS has been very selective about who gets the "best treatment". If you went private you'd certainly get less cancellations as well. Doctors have zero training on new, rare diseases.
This is all complete bollocks. Typical arrogance from someone who despite having never used the service pretends that they are some kind of authority. You don't have to self diagnose at all, what do you think examinations, scans etc are for? Idiot.The whole point of the NHS is that it is not selective about who gets the best treatment. The idea that doctors have zero training on new rare diseases Is also just complete fabrication from you. You just make stuff up. Why? Seriously what does it matter to you that the NHS is so loved in a country you look down your nose at?
You are 2 pork pies short of a picnic mate. I have direct experience with your NHS. Have you no empathy for the vast numbers of elderly, vulnerable people left on trolleys for hours and hours? Are you that heartless, you nasty little.man? Is the utter lack of diagnosis and the piss-poor lack of treatment and even drugs OK with you? Try and question some of your stubborn and long-held beliefs. Mate the NHS is sinking. You can't even reform it. Take a look at what France, Germany or Holland does. What a beautiful mix of public and private! Your Chancellor is writing checks to this communist-style monstrosity.
How do you have direct experience if you have never lived here? The tories whose ideology is mirrored by the kind of politics you admire and believe in are responsible for those people left to wait for treatment and yet I am the heartless nasty little man? You are the one constantly mocking people for empathy and scoffing at the idea of social justice not me. Only an American and a pretty brainwashed deluded one at that would call the NHS a 'communist style monstrosity'. You just make stuff up constantly and never address any of the points when people call you out on your bullshit.
Did you even read this - The Tory blueprint for wrecking our public services
The reason the NHS is struggling is because much like Thatcher closing down the mining industry the current Government wants it to fail to justify privatising it. I get that you have thrown your lot in with the elite but if you want to do that you must live with the consequences of being trampled underfoot by the corporate behemoth you have just voted for. You are now an employer of Trump enterprises but that does not give you the right to come and spread your toxic corporate bullshit here. We don't want to ape your failed system its stinks and this widening between the haves and have nots is the real nasty secret in the room. People are dying because of such a sick philosophy and you are actively trying to spread the rot with your corporate slave propaganda.
It is American companies lie ATOS that have the blood of hundreds of dead British disabled and terminally ill people found fit for work on their hands. There is it seems, no lows to which your model will not stoop in an effort to make money.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Oh this will be fun....I won't comment because I already know Beanz will whine about me being American....but I sure will watch this clusterfuck of a thread. (It'll be a clusterfuck because how people react, I actually agree with you X).
If it was not for the NHS my Mrs would be dead. If it was not for the NHS my daughter would have died whilst her mother was in a coma. If it wasn't for the NHS then my three grandchildren would not be here. None of that has anything to do with whining or you being American, but you know according the Brock the NHS is piss. So sit back and wait for the clusterfuck if that is your idea of an evening well spent.
Well then, ALL HAIL the NHS and never let anyone ever question it, the funding of it, or the policies of it.
I've had sick family members too Beanz, they didn't have an NHS to look after them, they ended up quite alright. In fact I would not be here if it was not for a charity which allowed for my Grandmother to have a full and healthy life....In return for such a gift it is my honor to belong to and support that very same charity paying it forward to other families. Sadly my Grandmother is just now in Hospice and does not have much of a journey left in her earthly life, but at her age she can look back on a life well lived...she defied the odds. And not due to some government entitlement/burden on the taxpayer but due to the free will and good charity of willing citizens. Good can come from other sources than just the government.
Healthcare and Mental Healthcare are very difficult issues to handle. You will ALWAYS have the healthy paying for the sickly, you will ALWAYS have the young paying for the old. And those in great need of care likely aren't able to afford the care they need. My only issue is that government mandates, coercion at the point of a gun/threat of jail are not needed to get people to help their fellow man. But That is just my belief.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
'Coercion at the point of a gun/The threat of jail?' You literally have no idea do you Lyle. People want to support the NHS. The ones destroying it are the elite born into privilege who have no need of it like the Current Health Secretary Jeremy CHunt , a man born into the same moneyed state as your Idol The Donald. Funny how you and The Brock are basically aligning yourselves with the aristiocracy and Royals.
Attachment 3934
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
The only Royal here is your Queen-supporting ass. Trump will roil the Royals. Foil the Royals. Trump will trump the Windsor rumps.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
The only Royal here is your Queen-supporting ass. Trump will roil the Royals. Foil the Royals. Trump will trump the Windsor rumps.
I am about as far from being a Royalist as you are likely to get before being locked up for treason. You love em mate. Trump is the American version of them and you bought into that bollocks when you sold your soul down the river for a cheap pop at anyone who disagrees with you or is less fortunate than you.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
'Coercion at the point of a gun/The threat of jail?' You literally have no idea do you Lyle. People want to support the NHS. The ones destroying it are the elite born into privilege who have no need of it like the Current Health Secretary Jeremy
CHunt , a man born into the same moneyed state as your Idol The Donald. Funny how you and The Brock are basically aligning yourselves with the aristiocracy and Royals.
Attachment 3934
Yes YOU have the NHS and perhaps that is different I (an American) have the ACA and YES the way we citizens support that is COERCION AT THE POINT OF A GUN/THE THREAT OF JAIL.
Single Family
2017 $695 or 2.5% of income $2,085 or 2.5% of income
2016 $695 or 2.5% of income $2,085 or 2.5% of income
2015 $325 or 2% of income $975 or 2% of income
2014 $95 or 1% of income $285 or 1% of income
Those are the TAX penalties for not having health insurance under the ACA....pay them unless you want to go to jail or get health insurance either way your money leaves your pocket and not because you CHOOSE but because the Government has decreed. When the Government decrees it does so ALWAYS behind the force of the Armed Forces and Police that is how laws work.
How am I aligning myself here? I've not made a political statement in regards to anything other than I don't personally enjoy the ACA....I also wanted to see others' views on the NHS.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
'Coercion at the point of a gun/The threat of jail?' You literally have no idea do you Lyle. People want to support the NHS. The ones destroying it are the elite born into privilege who have no need of it like the Current Health Secretary Jeremy
CHunt , a man born into the same moneyed state as your Idol The Donald. Funny how you and The Brock are basically aligning yourselves with the aristiocracy and Royals.
Attachment 3934
Yes YOU have the NHS and perhaps that is different I (an American) have the ACA and YES the way we citizens support that is COERCION AT THE POINT OF A GUN/THE THREAT OF JAIL.
Single Family
2017 $695 or 2.5% of income $2,085 or 2.5% of income
2016 $695 or 2.5% of income $2,085 or 2.5% of income
2015 $325 or 2% of income $975 or 2% of income
2014 $95 or 1% of income $285 or 1% of income
Those are the TAX penalties for not having health insurance under the ACA....pay them unless you want to go to jail or get health insurance either way your money leaves your pocket and not because you CHOOSE but because the Government has decreed. When the Government decrees it does so ALWAYS behind the force of the Armed Forces and Police that is how laws work.
How am I aligning myself here? I've not made a political statement in regards to anything other than I don't personally enjoy the ACA....I also wanted to see others' views on the NHS.
You don't go to jail for not paying the penalty.
If whatever the GOP come up with to replace Obamacare contains penalties for not taking out insurance will you still think it's tyranny?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
You see right there @Beanz right there! You are making stuff up and then doubling down on it, trying to invent ways to confirm your bias. You have no qualms about portraying me as one who cannot tolerate a differing opinion. You conclude that I in some way should've "bought into" not Trump but Clinton and 4 more years of "cops are bad/open the borders/don't detain ARRESTED illegals/catch&release/obamacare/PC INFINITY....and because Trump voters protested that fecal matter.named HillObama, it makes me a royal.
Mate you just couldn't make.this stuff up.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
You don't go to jail for not paying the penalty.
If whatever the GOP come up with to replace Obamacare contains penalties for not taking out insurance will you still think it's tyranny?
OK, so you have your refund taken. The government keeps the money you overpaid in taxes until they have an amount equal to what you owe and if you choose not to file or pay taxes you will end up in jail.
I do not want healthcare to be a requirement for me to be considered a legal and law abiding citizen, is that so difficult to understand? I will still not like the healthcare plan if it's mandated by the government regardless of who is currently running the government because that changes and will no doubt change many times during my lifetime and should some party that does not like me personally be in charge of the government then they'd have more of my life at their finger tips ready to control....so no I will not like it if the Republicans have penalties in there....is that OK?
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
You just can't make this stuff up. Lyle. Its like the euro-lefties/socio-commies just can't fathom anything but a Nanny State like the UK.
You couldn't make this up if you tried.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
You see right there @
Beanz right there! You are making stuff up and then doubling down on it, trying to invent ways to confirm your bias. You have no qualms about portraying me as one who cannot tolerate a differing opinion. You conclude that I in some way should've "bought into" not Trump but Clinton and 4 more years of "cops are bad/open the borders/don't detain ARRESTED illegals/catch&release/obamacare/PC INFINITY....and because Trump voters protested that fecal matter.named HillObama, it makes me a royal.Mate you just couldn't make.this stuff up.
There is no way I would have suggested you vote for Clinton. Ever. I wouldn't have suggested you teach illegal Immigrants either but you seem to be in as much denial as the Donald.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
Beanz only 15% of my students are illegal. 85% are on Catastrophe Visas/Earthquake Visas (Nepali and Bhutanese), Domestic Violence Victim/Battered Woman status, Southeast Asian Women's Empowerment programs and F-1 student visas.
So of my 4 permanent classes @16 per class, there are over 56 LEGAL immigrants. That leaves no.more than 10 illegals. So what are you on about me being a royal? If I were any farther from being a royal, the NYPD would have zoomed in already.
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Trump is the American equivalent of Royalty except unlike most of those hideous reptiles he hasn't even served his country in the armed services. You love him. In the face.Two times.
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Re: The Myth of the British National Health Servi
I love Donald Trump. He defeated the MSM Mind Control PC SJW SCUM even though everything was rigged against him.
You bet I love him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
I love Donald Trump. He defeated the MSM Mind Control PC SJW SCUM even though everything was rigged against him.You bet I love him.
Yes he was a virtual unknown. Nobody who watched mainstream American network television or crappy reality shows had ever heard of him. Despite working his way up from being a penniless orphan and becoming a long term underground political activist he was roundly ignored throughout the campaign so nobody gave him any coverage whatsoever. Then on top of that some teenage girls were really mean to him on snapbebotwatterbook and a baby was even hypnotised and trained to cry when he picked it up. What a hero. Despite all that, he made it.
