Who do you think wins this fight and how?
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Who do you think wins this fight and how?
I heard/read so many people post Jacobs saying don't mention GGG in the same sentence as Hagler ever again which to me at least, is pathetic.
I know there's an unwritten rule that contemporary fighters dont stand a chance against their counterparts from years gone by, it will be no different in years to come.
Hagler GGG would be an absolute war and I cant split them.
I think GGG would do him
Hagler couldn't beat a blown up welterweight
I'd have to take The Marvelous One in that bout....if he could take anything Tommy Hearns threw at him he'd have no trouble with GGG unless GGG were going to try to out box him and even then he's going to have to work extremely hard for all 12/15 rounds to do that and I don't think many would be able to handle that.
Hagler looks like a titch compared with todays middles.
I'd like to see how well he fares against Billy Joe, Eubank Jr or Stevens before feeding him to Golovkin, Lemiuex or Jacobs.
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
Yeah I agree with you there. When Hagler beat Hearns in that classic, he went up a few notches in my view. I'm a big GGG fan... and it wouldn't be an easy fight for either of them. But I gotta go with Hagler in the end. Either way, it would be a tremendous match.
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Originally Posted by Fenster
I absolutely agree that the 24 hour weigh in rules have made a bit of a mockery of every weight division (apart from heavy, obviously).
It was brought in for the tight reasons, i.e. To prevent fighters dangerously dehydrating to make weight. The unintended consequence is that every single weight division is actually the one ABOVE it.
Having said that, I do think GGG is a natural true middleweight. He is a lot smaller than some of the guys out there now and I reckon he would have been about the same size as Hagler.
The Marvelous One chews up and spits out Saunders, Eubank Junior and the like.
Him and Golovkin would be a fight for the ages. Two big punchers, with absolute iron chins. I can't see either guy being stopped so I reckon this goes to points. Both guys are very underrated boxers ... I can't split these guys, both of whom I think are outstanding fighters
Marvin is one of the all time great middle weights.
GGG is a great fighter but Marvin would beat him a fan of both but Hagler is King.
I think it would be a competitive fight at times but Hagler would bust GGG up late. Especially over 15 rounds.
It's hard for me seeing GGG win. Here's why. GGG wouldn't be able to hurt haglar. GGG is a great technical boxer but has slow feet. He relies on breaking down his opponent which he wouldn't do to haglar.
I think the scorecards would be fairly close, but I think that haglar out boxes GGG and even hurts him a bit because GGG is willing to take a punch to give one.
Two best of their time but Hagler was every bit the fighter and the better boxer than Golovkin and he would need to be. He also benefits from the complete picture career wise. Up until his last fight I cannot remember seeing Golovkin face that level of adversity. Probably one of the best things that happened to Hagler was being hit on by Monroe at such an early stage and he did nothing but improve. Hagler is enshrined in a legendary era and by no fault of his own Golovkin has the 'best match up/fighter' in Canelo running from him and has to collect trinkets in assumed steamrollers. But even without that Hagler runs too deep for me and keeps Golovkin turning and touched often for a win. Gears!
I don't see GGG hurting Hagler but I do see Hagler hurting GGG. That and like @Spicoli says his ability to turn it up a notch makes for a hard night for Golovkin. Hagler fought a lot of tough opposition even before getting a shot. I just don't see GGG being able to hang with The Marvelous One as the fight progressed.
Have to admit that I'm shocked at some of the answers. People tend to remember Hagler as the warrior who stood toe to toe vs Hearns, Mugabi, and Leonard (tried to vs Ray), understandably. Prime Hagler was much much better than that version, and was probably one of the top two or three most complete fighters ever. People forget that he was pretty quick, was a great boxer, and was able to fight effectively from the southpaw and orthodox stance, usually because Marvin's punch, chin, and stamina/work ethic overshadow everything else. I see Marvin boxing GGG silly, and stopping him late through attrition and accumulation of punishment.
you can never have a debate like this on a boxing forum or with boxing fans and get an accurate answer, even with those that are not really old enough to have experienced hagler
Boxing is a nostalgic sport and Hagler would win every single time, when in reality he would probably be knocked out like most of Golovkins other opponents
I agree Hagler wins because prime Hagler may have been before he even won the title as he had to beat even tougher (but less well known) fighters to get to the title. Marvin was a skilful southpaw boxers with great speed and endurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
However GGG is also a rated boxer with pedigree at amateur and professional level so I could not see him being boxed silly and stopped. It would be on points and I think Marvellous speed may be the decisive factor in winning.
You think Hagler would be knocked out by GGG? Or were you just saying that people automatically choose fighters of previous generations for reasons related to nostalgia. Can see your point regarding nostalgia clouding judgement. Completely disagree that Hagler is stopped by any middleweight who ever lived, let alone GGG.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Any middleweight who ever lived???? So let's say a Middleweight RJJ fought Hagler....RJJ wouldn't be able to stop him? Ezzard Charles as a middleweight wouldn't stop him? I just find that a bit hard to believe. Hagler was solid and had a granite chin, but un-knock-out-able I don't think he was.
I don't see Roy stopping him. I just don't see it. At best Roy would outspeed him similar to his fights vs Hop and Toney. He never had either of those two in trouble and I don't see either having a better chin than Hagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Charles was a great fighter, in my opinion the GOAT at light heavy, but haven't seen much film of him at 160. He peaked at 175, so that leads me to believe that his strength/power may have suffered at 160. Things just "click" for certain fighters at certain weights. Hagler clicked at 160, and Charles clicked at 175. I don't see either being stopped at either weight by anyone.
GGG does his best work when the opponent takes time off. When would he get his best work done against Hagler? Bad matchup for GGG
Is it over 12 or 15 ?
I don't see anyone stopping Golovkin either but there are many fighters who seem unknockoutable until it happens. My head says Hagler on points because of his ability to readjust and find angles but maybe Gennady is more Marvelous than Marvin where heart is concerned, hard to tell until someone is able to really put it on him.
Hagler- close points decision.
I have seen both fighters in their time frame an Marvin aka the worker and man of war vs. the modern man of war but GGG takes coffee breaks during his defenses. He can't with Marvin but if he took his break after the fight, I feel war would have a new definition.
Hagler's chin was one of the best in history, any fighter who can withstand the right hand of Hearns is unstoppable.
OK, I understand that, I accept that, BUT just because I'm me how's about we consider just for a second Tommy Hearns' legs in the Hagler fight. It is well known that Tommy's legs were in poor shape in that fight ergo the toe to toe war we got because Tommy couldn't move, but that being the case, if your legs are injured at all it's going to take SOMETHING away from your power because power punchers punch with their entire body, feet all the way to the knuckles, Tommy didn't have his legs at 100% and therefore his power wasn't at 100%.....Marvin Hagler had some set of whiskers and maybe who knows, maybe if Tommy is 100% healthy maybe Marvin still looks Marvelous taking those shots but who knows, it's certainly something to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I believe Hearns went for broke earlier while he still had power of his legs and it sliced Hagler's head.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOK, I understand that, I accept that, BUT just because I'm me how's about we consider just for a second Tommy Hearns' legs in the Hagler fight. It is well known that Tommy's legs were in poor shape in that fight ergo the toe to toe war we got because Tommy couldn't move, but that being the case, if your legs are injured at all it's going to take SOMETHING away from your power because power punchers punch with their entire body, feet all the way to the knuckles, Tommy didn't have his legs at 100% and therefore his power wasn't at 100%.....Marvin Hagler had some set of whiskers and maybe who knows, maybe if Tommy is 100% healthy maybe Marvin still looks Marvelous taking those shots but who knows, it's certainly something to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
If Hagler was going to be stopped it would be for that or being stopped standing on his feet like La Motta.
Come on this is a no-brainer. You could hit Marvelous Marvin Hagler with the kitchen sink nothing would stop that guy. John the Beast mugabi hit just as hard as Triple G take a look at some of the shots that we landed period no way can Triple G stop Hagler from coming forward absolutely nobody could stop her from coming forward. Triple G is No Sugar Ray Leonard. Only a Sugar Ray Leonard can win that fight. Marvelous Marvin Hagler would beat the living crap and Daylights out of this guy slowly but surely by about the ninth round Triple G would be down on the floor crying with cracked ribs
Hagler has the options available to him from what I've seen of Golovkin when he was actually pressed hard. Can see him honestly staying one step ahead as it goes deep and staying smart. I'd be more worried about his body than his head though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
In the dressing room just before the fight, one of Tommy's buddies (a guy called Skidoo) was giving his legs a rubdown. He thought he was trying to help, but it warms down the muscles and puts them into recovery mode.
Thats the last thing you want BEFORE a fight.
Manny Stewart went completely apeshit and threw all the guys out of the dressing room. When they were alone, Manny told Tommy to change his tactics and jump on Hagler straight away.
He didn't tell him that his legs were going to gas out after the rubdown, to avoid putting doubt in his boxer's mind. Tommy didn't have any leg injury.
By that point in his career, Hearns was in love with his straight right. He wanted to absolutely devastate Hagler and he was confident he would do it, so he loved Manny's advice and certainly took it.
Funnily enough, Tommy was a master boxer and once he had severely cut Hagler, he could have gone on his bike for a couple of rounds and the ref would have stopped the fight.
Problem is, in his mind, Tommy was just a right hand and nothing else in that fight.
I can buy an argument that GGG could beat hagler (although I disagree), but you could never get me to buy an argument that GGG would KO him. Hagler has a top notch chin. He got hit by huge shots during his career. Shots that would have put out most other fighters and he just walked through them unfazed.
Tommy also injured, if not broke, that right hand when it landed on Hagler's hard head.Quote:
Originally Posted by XQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
In the dressing room just before the fight, one of Tommy's buddies (a guy called Skidoo) was giving his legs a rubdown. He thought he was trying to help, but it warms down the muscles and puts them into recovery mode.
Thats the last thing you want BEFORE a fight.
Manny Stewart went completely apeshit and threw all the guys out of the dressing room. When they were alone, Manny told Tommy to change his tactics and jump on Hagler straight away.
He didn't tell him that his legs were going to gas out after the rubdown, to avoid putting doubt in his boxer's mind. Tommy didn't have any leg injury.
By that point in his career, Hearns was in love with his straight right. He wanted to absolutely devastate Hagler and he was confident he would do it, so he loved Manny's advice and certainly took it.
Funnily enough, Tommy was a master boxer and once he had severely cut Hagler, he could have gone on his bike for a couple of rounds and the ref would have stopped the fight.
Problem is, in his mind, Tommy was just a right hand and nothing else in that fight.
Just as I do not see Hagler being stopped I do not see GGG being stopped. If a full blown cruiser weight who can punch could not hurt Golovkin then Hagler would not either.
It would be a small list of middleweights that would have been able to stop Hagler. Jackson, Ketchel, McClellan, Benn, Graziano, Hearns, Robinson, Jones Jr., Fitzsimmons, Langford, Fernandez. Possibly a few more I'd give a chance. Not saying these guys would knock him out but if they landed clean they could have.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I'm assuming that any person in the history of the world could possibly be knocked out by a hard shot. Hagler had as granite of a chin as there ever was in boxing history. So is it possible he got KO'd? Sure. But it would be about as likely as McGregor beating mayweather in a boxing match.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIt would be a small list of middleweights that would have been able to stop Hagler. Jackson, Ketchel, McClellan, Benn, Graziano, Hearns, Robinson, Jones Jr., Fitzsimmons, Langford, Fernandez. Possibly a few more I'd give a chance. Not saying these guys would knock him out but if they landed clean they could have.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Not only did hagler have a great chin, but he was a good enough boxer that he didn't just get hit flush over and over. It's not as if he didn't know how to move if he were hurt.
Hagler is one of my top 3 all time favorite boxer, I still voted draw and I explain why; Hagler was a legend in itself, an adamantium chinned god of perfect movement on the ring and he fought against the hell of an opposition. It's always hard to pit a boxer from today against such a legend of the past, especially because of the halo that comes with it.
On paper, I think that GGG has wonderful tools that could have fared very well against Marvelous. Enough to beat him? That's where it gets hard to tell; GGG hasn't fought enough top of the league competitors and his best years are slowly crawling behind him. We haven't seen enough to know for sure, but there's no doubt that the kid's special.
For that reason, the lack of data vs the legend, I'll be careful and speculate that a draw could be possible.
Exactly and it would have to be someone in the company of those punchers to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherI'm assuming that any person in the history of the world could possibly be knocked out by a hard shot. Hagler had as granite of a chin as there ever was in boxing history. So is it possible he got KO'd? Sure. But it would be about as likely as McGregor beating mayweather in a boxing match.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaIt would be a small list of middleweights that would have been able to stop Hagler. Jackson, Ketchel, McClellan, Benn, Graziano, Hearns, Robinson, Jones Jr., Fitzsimmons, Langford, Fernandez. Possibly a few more I'd give a chance. Not saying these guys would knock him out but if they landed clean they could have.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Not only did hagler have a great chin, but he was a good enough boxer that he didn't just get hit flush over and over. It's not as if he didn't know how to move if he were hurt.
Marvelous Marvin Hagler used to do 1000 push-ups and 1000 sit-ups per day. His punches would penetrate through the opponent's bones and out the other side like a bullet. He was the most compact fighter in the history of boxing besides Rocky Marciano and they both came from Brockton Massachusetts. Marvelous Marvin Hagler wouldve ended the career of Triple G because Triple-G likes to come forward. Anybody on this boxing Forum thinks that any fighter who comes forward would stand a chance against Marvin Hagler is just as asinine as any other poster who thinks a fighter who comes forward will stand a chance against George Foreman. It's just not going to work ...keep dreaming
"He was the most compact fighter in the history of boxing besides Rocky Marciano" is the dumbest statement ever posted on saddo.
Rocky was never the most compact fighter and to compare him to Hagler is ridiculous.
Even dumber than that is your failure to understand what compact meansQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Says the English teacher who equates Rocky to being compact. Rocky was many things but compact compared to Hagler is certainly not the first thing that comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustEven dumber than that is your failure to understand what compact meansQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
I guess that depends on Whose mind we're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSays the English teacher who equates Rocky to being compact. Rocky was many things but compact compared to Hagler is certainly not the first thing that comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustEven dumber than that is your failure to understand what compact meansQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Not sure if you have dictionaries over there in Wolverhampton but the definition of compact is small solid and well-proportioned as well as having all of the necessary components in a very small space. I believe Rocky Marciano and Marvin could both be described as small and solid and well-proportioned. Marvin Hagler was only five foot eight and a half which is rather short for a middleweight and Rocky Marciano was not very tall either but both extremely solid. You are correct I am the English teacher and apparently you are not
I agree