Lomachenko? Name 1-3 fighters he needs to face to satisfy you.

Lots of people disappointed with his opposition - even though it's incredible for someone with 10 fights - so who should he fight?

It's not about 10 fights. It's about him being called number 1 P4P.

People saying he's the best fighter in 30 years

On the 10 fights scale his opposition is great.

He should fight Rigo who wants the fight, Berchelt who wants the fight or Mikey who wants the fight

Well since you ask......

For someone who was anointed as one of the best p4p with just a handful of professional fights, I'd say I'd like him to face the likes of Mikey Garcia in order to satisfy me. Someone who won't be overwhelmed by the hype by the time he steps into the ring. Someone who won't let Loma clown him like Marriaga just did.

At 130 he's got Berchelt, Davis and Corrales. Add in Rigo as he apparently is willing to come to 130. At 135 there's Garcia and Linares. Flanagan and Easter are unbeaten belt holders. 140 might be a bit high but Crawford is the monster in the room.

Right, so we have...

Garcia - who just fought at 140, two weight divisions above Loma's current weight.

Rigo - who just fought at 122, two weight divisions below Loma's current weight.

Berchelt - someone at his current weight.

Is that it? For a man that's had 10 fights he only has ONE worthwhile opponent in his own/current weight division that could satisfy fans? Doesn't leave him many options, does it?

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Garcia - who just fought at 140, two weight divisions above Loma's current weight.

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Right. And the fight before last he was at 135... and before that he was at super featherweight.
In this day and age where fighters go through weight divisions like pancakes at an "all you can eat", it's anything but a stretch to see Loma in there with Mikey.

Or should we keep feeding him wide-eyed youngsters?

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Right, so we have...

Garcia - who just fought at 140, two weight divisions above Loma's current weight.

Rigo - who just fought at 122, two weight divisions below Loma's current weight.

Berchelt - someone at his current weight.

Is that it? For a man that's had 10 fights he only has ONE worthwhile opponent in his own/current weight division that could satisfy fans? Doesn't leave him many options, does it?

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I get your point, no top fighter should ever fight a top fighter.

But look how deceptive you are. You bring up Garcia fighting at 140 as if he is a 140 fighter. He isn't, he's chasing big fights. It was what, 3 fights ago Mikey was at Loma's current weightclass? They can meet at 135 no problem.

And then you go to "has ONE worthwhile opponent in his own/current weightclass that could satisfy fans?" Because I only mentioned 1. But I didn't only mention one because there is only one. You said name 1-3 fighters that could satisfy fans. I had already named 3. So why would I name more when I've already named 3 that openly want to fight him? Should I also name great fighters that aren't looking at him? You've changed your question, perhaps tell me all the ways you intend to change it so I know exactly what picture you are trying to paint

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Garcia - who just fought at 140, two weight divisions above Loma's current weight.

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Right. And the fight before last he was at 135... and before that he was at super featherweight.
In this day and age where fighters go through weight divisions like pancakes at an "all you can eat", it's anything but a stretch to see Loma in there with Mikey.

Or should we keep feeding him wide-eyed youngsters?

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So you want a guy with 10 fights to move up in weight to challenge one of the P4P best in the world. A guy with 10 fights that hasn't even cleaned out his current division. For a guy with 10 fights he sure must be special.

That was my point. Thanks. :)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Garcia - who just fought at 140, two weight divisions above Loma's current weight.

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Right. And the fight before last he was at 135... and before that he was at super featherweight.
In this day and age where fighters go through weight divisions like pancakes at an "all you can eat", it's anything but a stretch to see Loma in there with Mikey.

Or should we keep feeding him wide-eyed youngsters?

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So you want a guy with 10 fights to move up in weight to challenge one of the P4P best in the world. A guy with 10 fights that hasn't even cleaned out his current division. For a guy with 10 fights he sure must be special.

That was my point. Thanks. :)

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He's already been anointed. He was given a title shot in his 2nd pro fight.

Sure... he hasn't "cleaned out his division yet"... he's only got 10 pro fights. There's a little more than 10 contenders at 130. ;)

So.... again.... should we continue feeding him wide-eyed youngsters? So he can mug for the camera?

I'll probably get tired of it.







Thanks.

I'm confused at your motive here. Loma has only 10 professional fights. We get that. He has about 400 amateur fights so he isn't some normal fighter with 10 fights. We all know that he is one of the best fighters in the world. In order to prove that he is the best though, he has to have a signature win.

There are a few fighters at his weight class that would be good fights. Loma would definitely be favored in them all but they are better than Marriaga for sure. Rigo is obviously under him in weight but is a very good fighter and would be a great technical fight. I would love a Garcia fight at 135 too.

Here is the thing though, I'm fine if he wants to stay at 130 and clean out the division. He needs to fight the top guys of the division though. Not just decent competition. I mean why not make the Vladez fight instead of the fighter that Valdez beat? I just don't think Loma needs to take easier fights at this time in his career.

You can't on the one hand claim lofty p4p status on a guy with 10 pro fights, and then back away when given worthy candidates to fight. It's hypocritical. Don't think anyone really enjoyed tonight's main event, as it was anything but competitive. If a guy's gonna be crowned p4p # 1... or Top 3... or whatever... then put him in against other top fighters who won't be intimidated by the hype train. To also claim weight differences, especially given these guys are basically the same size.... smells of Canelo avoiding GGG all over again.

In any case, I'll stick to my answer. Lomachenko facing Mikey Garcia would really satisfy me.

I think every fight from here needs to be relevant for Loma. I'm not really interested in a Salido rematch anymore unless he does something to warrant it (win a belt or defeats a contender). If Loma stays at 130 it needs to be unification's. If he wants to challenge himself and back up his talk he targets Mikey. There was talk of Loma going to 135 for Flanagan, why does the tune change when Garcia will be in the other corner?

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

I'm confused at your motive here. Loma has only 10 professional fights. We get that. He has about 400 amateur fights so he isn't some normal fighter with 10 fights. We all know that he is one of the best fighters in the world. In order to prove that he is the best though, he has to have a signature win.

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Well that right there explains exactly why he can be considered P4P no.1

Amateur fights?

He's not just a unique incredibly skilled two weight world champion within 10 fights he's also the greatest ever amateur. If his amateur career is a reason to fasttrack him then equally it must be factored into his current standing.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

If he wants to challenge himself and back up his talk he targets Mikey. There was talk of Loma going to 135 for Flanagan, why does the tune change when Garcia will be in the other corner?

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Loma has said he wont fight Garcia?

Barring Garcia - which is clearly everyones favourite - i'd prefer Davis at 130 than Linares/Flanagan etc at lightweight, although they're all top matchups.

Both guys seem to want the fight but there is already politics at play. The Davis fight is probably just as hard to make. Personally I think Berchelt or Corrales are easier fights to make on ESPN. I just hope Loma isn't kept treading water. I give him a pass here as the Salido fight fell through, as well as Corrales I think. And the ESPN dealing coming into affect. Mikey is trying to make big fights. Loma has to keep pace.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

I'm confused at your motive here. Loma has only 10 professional fights. We get that. He has about 400 amateur fights so he isn't some normal fighter with 10 fights. We all know that he is one of the best fighters in the world. In order to prove that he is the best though, he has to have a signature win.

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Well that right there explains exactly why he can be considered P4P no.1

Amateur fights?

He's not just a unique incredibly skilled two weight world champion within 10 fights he's also the greatest ever amateur. If his amateur career is a reason to fasttrack him then equally it must be factored into his current standing.

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I agree. So then why are you keep bringing up the point that he only has 10 pro fights as an excuse to not fight too competition?

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Originally Posted by Alpha

I think every fight from here needs to be relevant for Loma. I'm not really interested in a Salido rematch anymore unless he does something to warrant it (win a belt or defeats a contender). If Loma stays at 130 it needs to be unification's. If he wants to challenge himself and back up his talk he targets Mikey. There was talk of Loma going to 135 for Flanagan, why does the tune change when Garcia will be in the other corner?

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Because Mikey Garcia is the total package and is a star in his own right. He's been a bit under the radar, as opposed to Loma, but he's got every bit as much self-confidence that Loma has. Frankly, I wouldn't blame Loma for avoiding him.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

I'm confused at your motive here. Loma has only 10 professional fights. We get that. He has about 400 amateur fights so he isn't some normal fighter with 10 fights. We all know that he is one of the best fighters in the world. In order to prove that he is the best though, he has to have a signature win.

---

Well that right there explains exactly why he can be considered P4P no.1

Amateur fights?

He's not just a unique incredibly skilled two weight world champion within 10 fights he's also the greatest ever amateur. If his amateur career is a reason to fasttrack him then equally it must be factored into his current standing.

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I agree. So then why are you keep bringing up the point that he only has 10 pro fights as an excuse to not fight too competition?

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You're reading into my posts something that's not intended. I'm not a fan of any fighter i'm a fan of boxing. If it was up to me I would match all fighters against the toughest possible opposition EVERY fight. No "gimmes," no soft defenses, no easy touches. I couldn't care less about what any fighter earns, their life, career, anything.

I'd have Loma facing Crawford at 140 next let alone Garcia.

I'll be honest I'm beginning to hold the toying and cocky shat against him. Not his "greatness" and dominance but conduct while possessing overwhelming advantages as we saw last night. If you're superior...just hammer the nail don't tickle and tap it. Showmanship makes the sport go round but ffs they were running on like he was beating an elite when all he was doing as it went was carrying him to clown. Especially when the opponent was coming -up- in weight and conveniently stuffed into top rankings in a division he had never competed just to make another showcase easier to swallow. His reputation and rep was based on losses, however tough he was. For starters he can fight someone his own flipping size. He has 3 fellow champs in same division. Move to clear it out with Corrales being more likely as he was also featured on espn but I do think Berchelt would provide more of a contest. Davis would be good after a couple more fights, maybe, but think hell would freeze over before promotions work together. Or move up and be represent the weight you're already actually at. Forget all the Crawford stuff..lets slow the roll and do the time and advance properly not leap frog divisions based on anointed 'superiority'. Oh and don't get so cocky he takes wind up hooks he has no business being hit with. Boredom and that sort of thing becomes part of a guys overall presentation and it catches up quick.

If Arum does a longer term deal with ESPN and guys like Lomachenko and Crawford are stuck there for several fights I just don't think ESPN will come up with the scratch to make fights like Lomachenko-Garcia or Crawford-Spence a possibility and that's even if Arum wants to make them which is questionable to say the least. Does anybody know the purses for Saturday night's fights or the purses for the upcoming Crawford fight?

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

It's not about 10 fights. It's about him being called number 1 P4P. People saying he's the best fighter in 30 yearsOn the 10 fights scale his opposition is great.He should fight Rigo who wants the fight, Berchelt who wants the fight or Mikey who wants the fight

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Yes, exactly. His achievements in the ring pale in comparison to Andre Ward. There's now way on earth he should be rated #1 pound for pound. I have serious doubts he could have beaten the trio of JMM, Barrera, or Morales at featherweight. They were NEVER P4P #1. Now, if he beats Rigondueax and Garcia then sure he's pound for pound. Definitely if he beats Crawford.

Garcia looked to have moved out of the weight classification.... so that looks like that being out of the question....

But, Rigo should be there... rematch Salido.... and probably Rances Barthelemy........ that would do for me. Just to make him more legit without chasing the prima donna's... ya know?!

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

It's not about 10 fights. It's about him being called number 1 P4P. People saying he's the best fighter in 30 yearsOn the 10 fights scale his opposition is great.He should fight Rigo who wants the fight, Berchelt who wants the fight or Mikey who wants the fight

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Yes, exactly. His achievements in the ring pale in comparison to Andre Ward. There's now way on earth he should be rated #1 pound for pound. I have serious doubts he could have beaten the trio of JMM, Barrera, or Morales at featherweight. They were NEVER P4P #1. Now, if he beats Rigondueax and Garcia then sure he's pound for pound. Definitely if he beats Crawford.

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Agreed.

And that's great he's had over 400 amateur fights but were they all against taxi drivers?

Sorry, but he needs to prove himself in the pro ranks with champions before putting him anywhere near Ward.

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

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Ward is undefeated too. Plus he is in a heavier weight class and guys duck him more than the other way around.

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Fenster

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

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Ward is undefeated too. Plus he is in a heavier weight class and guys duck him more than the other way around.

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Ward "ducked?" Never has a fighter been more mollycoddled than him. He's had every meaningful fight at home on his promotion - judges, officials, never even left America. Made his name in the super-six yet refused to fight Dirrell. Forced Dawson to near kill himself to get to 168.

Chayaphon Moonsri is a 47-0 WBC champion. Don't see you boys waffling about his P4P-ness because he's unbeaten?

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Originally Posted by Fenster

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

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And your point? You are just pointing out that Ward has more credentials and a better case for p4p king.

Also, weren't you the one saying how rankings were bogus so you can't use that as an argument but you are using world champions (obviously worthless titles for the most part) as a legitimate argument? At this point, Ward has easily beaten the better fighters. It's not close

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Fenster

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

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And your point? You are just pointing out that Ward has more credentials and a better case for p4p king.

Also, weren't you the one saying how rankings were bogus so you can't use that as an argument but you are using world champions (obviously worthless titles for the most part) as a legitimate argument? At this point, Ward has easily beaten the better fighters. It's not close

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The point?

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Originally Posted by imp

Sorry, but he needs to prove himself in the pro ranks with champions before putting him anywhere near Ward.

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I was providing balance. Knowledge.

Feel free to point out where I've said Ward can't be ranked P4P no.1? I'm not the one tripping over myself in an attempt to enforce my opinion about a fantasy concept.

Loma has already lost.
("But it was unfair! The referee! The judges! The low blows! Yada yada ya)

To compare him against Ward at this level is pathetic.

We all know Loma is getting on in years so the fans and media are obviously trying to rush him along into this undeserved position.

What makes matters worse is that Top rank and corrupt Bob arum will milk this for all it's worth.

Body shots ruined Loma in his first loss.

https://youtu.be/18xFTNGE2xs

There's a reason why Floyd, Ward and Calzaghe will retire undefeated..they are special.

Loma has a long road ahead of him so let's not jump the gun and follow all the hype.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by Fenster

In four years/10 fights Loma has fought 5 "world" champions and a further three world title challengers. Ward has been a pro for 13 years, fought 7 "world" champions in 32 fights.

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Ward is undefeated too. Plus he is in a heavier weight class and guys duck him more than the other way around.

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Ward "ducked?" Never has a fighter been more mollycoddled than him. He's had every meaningful fight at home on his promotion - judges, officials, never even left America. Made his name in the super-six yet refused to fight Dirrell. Forced Dawson to near kill himself to get to 168.

Chayaphon Moonsri is a 47-0 WBC champion. Don't see you boys waffling about his P4P-ness because he's unbeaten?

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Might be mistaken and don't know this Moonsri but weren't you the one discounting the p4p'ness of Ricardo Lopez a bit because of the obscure names and same division ;D. Truth be told I can't stand Ward and while both are clearly p4p on skills and both rode amateur success, Wards roll out cannot compare to the way Loma was coddled with pre set 'greatness' blabber and network stroking. A debut on ppv right under the guy you'll be fighting for the title next fight ffs. All that said, Loma did beat Russell in his 3rd fight and that seems to be dismissed to easily.

Context, @Spicoli, it's all about context. I don't recall the Lopez thing, however, I wouldn't put it past me. I may have been trying to show why Lopez is an all-time great even though he doesn't have a bunch of famous fighters on his ledger. Fans love shitting on fighters that don't have "great" names on their record yet conveniently ignore this qualifier when dealing with their own "great" favourtites like Lopez (cutmemeick :D).

What I personally think and what is fair/reasonable/inconsistent/hypocritical/flawed reasoning are two entirely different things. What I say is not always meant to be taken literally.

As far as this thread goes - a guy says Loma needs to fight world champions, I provide world champions he's already faced, then I get a bunch of guys diving on me for making out Loma has a better record than Ward. Err.. what? All I did was provide a fact, never even expressed an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Context, @Spicoli, it's all about context. I don't recall the Lopez thing, however, I wouldn't put it past me. I may have been trying to show why Lopez is an all-time great even though he doesn't have a bunch of famous fighters on his ledger. Fans love shitting on fighters that don't have "great" names on their record yet conveniently ignore this qualifier when dealing with their own "great" favourtites like Lopez (cutmemeick :D).

What I personally think and what is fair/reasonable/inconsistent/hypocritical/flawed reasoning are two entirely different things. What I say is not always meant to be taken literally.

As far as this thread goes - a guy says Loma needs to fight world champions, I provide world champions he's already faced, then I get a bunch of guys diving on me for making out Loma has a better record than Ward. Err.. what? All I did was provide a fact, never even expressed an opinion.

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Man I totally get that and you're right about names. Just I don't think names are always big qualifier in p4p and can actually be additional knock on guys in 'smaller' divisions because they often get the cold shoulder. Strawweight wasn't even rated by some ranking rags, world bodies before Lopez came. Mick had it right ;D just watch a guy box p4p. Guess it all comes back to subjectivity of p4p, it's basically pick your preference and flavor of the month that fans are all so good at ;D. No one needs to be dived on for it. Frankly I can only defend Ward once in my life time and that was it. If I base it heavily on 'skill and just watch a guy box' Ward finishes lower. It's liked having a tooth pulled imo.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Context, @Spicoli, it's all about context. I don't recall the Lopez thing, however, I wouldn't put it past me. I may have been trying to show why Lopez is an all-time great even though he doesn't have a bunch of famous fighters on his ledger. Fans love shitting on fighters that don't have "great" names on their record yet conveniently ignore this qualifier when dealing with their own "great" favourtites like Lopez (cutmemeick :D).

What I personally think and what is fair/reasonable/inconsistent/hypocritical/flawed reasoning are two entirely different things. What I say is not always meant to be taken literally.

As far as this thread goes - a guy says Loma needs to fight world champions, I provide world champions he's already faced, then I get a bunch of guys diving on me for making out Loma has a better record than Ward. Err.. what? All I did was provide a fact, never even expressed an opinion.

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Man I totally get that and you're right about names. Just I don't think names are always big qualifier in p4p and can actually be additional knock on guys in 'smaller' divisions because they often get the cold shoulder. Strawweight wasn't even rated by some ranking rags, world bodies before Lopez came. Mick had it right ;D just watch a guy box p4p. Guess it all comes back to subjectivity of p4p, it's basically pick your preference and flavor of the month that fans are all so good at ;D. No one needs to be dived on for it. Frankly I can only defend Ward once in my life time and that was it. If I base it heavily on 'skill and just watch a guy box' Ward finishes lower. It's liked having a tooth pulled imo.

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You seem to think i'm arguing the very opposite of what i'm arguing. ;D

With mick I was the one highlighting Lopez is an all-time great without having a resume full of famous all-time great opponents. I've never said Lopez isn't a great (again, you've probably misconstrued my argument, there's a world of difference between highlighting someones hypocrisy and my own personal opinion).

Couldn't agree with you more about P4P, i've been saying the same for years. Some guys don't understand it's a fantasy concept, fun, they believe there's a right or wrong. Hence I like to point out inconsistencies, hypocrisy and flaws in some arguments.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Might be mistaken and don't know this Moonsri but weren't you the one discounting the p4p'ness of Ricardo Lopez a bit because of the obscure names and same division

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I just realised that you thought that I personally was saying this guy is P4P. No, I was showing Imp (and his ilk) that if unbeaten records are so important then why not give this unbeaten champ a mention?

Obviously because he's not known. Popular.

Arum saying it's down to Rigo or Salido next.

So is Loma P4P 1 when he beats up the little old boy?

I’m not saying it won’t be an impressive win but it can only hold so much weight when Rigo has to step up two weight classes to get the fight. I will most likely still have Crawford as #1.