Why can't American fighters sell the same amount of tickets as UK fighters?

I've just been reading about how AJ has sold 230,000 tickets in his last 3 fights compared to Wilders 42,000
We all know that Wilder isn't a huge star in America despite being HW champ and a KO artist but what sort of tickets to Thurman, Crawford and Spence sell?

In the UK we have a fight on TV pretty much every Saturday whether it be on Sky Sports, BoxNation or Sky PPV, Does America have cards on TV that often, over here we get all the big fights from across the pond but do you have domestic fights televised every week that we don't see, what is the promotion like for them, should they be doing more to get peoples interest?

It seems that the UK turn out in their droves for a fair few of our fighters, and boxing in general seems to be gaining more and more popularity over here, as much as I hate to say it credit has to go to Hearn for that, aside from the Sky promotion machine he puts time into building the youngsters up, putting televised cards on of a Friday night just to showcase the 'NXTGEN' fighters, its clever in the sense that he can just chuck some of the kids on a PPV undercard and they are names that people recognize and they won't cost Matchroom the earth to get them on.

At the same time the way they promote absolute meaningless fights like Bellew v Haye, I think that the big wigs in charge realize that the hardened boxing fan won't have a lot of interest but the casuals will eat it up, do American fights get the same sort of promotion or is it only the real big fights that get that sort of treatment?

Is it because America is so much bigger than the UK that people find it harder to throw their support behind American fighters whereas over here we feel that fighters from London to Newcastle are 'our own'

I don't mean for this to become a 'UK v USA' thread, I'm genuinely interested about the promotion and regularity of your fight nights.

UK record viewing figures (Millions)

Ali v Frazier 1971 BBC 27.3
McGuigan v Cabrera 1986 BBC 18.3
McGuigan v Pedroza 1985 BBC 18.0
Eubank v Benn 1993 ITV 16.3
Malinga v Eubank 1992 ITV 13.3
Benn v McClellan 1995 ITV 13.1
Rocchigiani v Eubank 1994 ITV 12.3
Eubank v Close 1993 ITV 11.5
Eubank v Thornton 1992 ITV 10.3
Eubank v Holmes 1993 ITV 10.1,
Bruno v Marin 1995 ITV 10.1

You young fans and casuals don't know how infuriating it is after 20 years of constantly putting up with - "he needs to prove himself in the States," "not a true champion until you fight in the States," "padded record British bums," "needs to fight an American," "America is the only country you get a fair shake," "Americans can't leave home they'll get robbed," "corrupt UK judges/refs," "he's not a real world champion until he fights in the States"...

And the coup de grace, the one thing all these ignorant blowhards always had as a trump card was - "America is where the money is at!!!" Game set and match. It was true, Britain couldn't compete financially with America, so to expect a fighter to travel for a paycut didn't make sense.

However, the minds of jaded, casual and young fans have been so badly polluted with "America is the bestest," that still to this day, even with the economic situation being turned on its head, Britain being the worlds hot bed for tickets sales and TV figures, Brit stars are expected to pander to American fighters. British fans, not just Americans, believe AJ needs to PROVE himself in America, give Wilder all his money, chase, chase, chase a man that offers NOTHING other than he is American. Utterly pathetic.

Hope this helps.

By the way, that 42,000 is a fudged number, they "comp" the tickets in the States, which means they give away mass unsold seats at the last minute to make it look better on TV (like the Oscars), literally take people off the streets. Whatever number they declare halve it (I was told that by a man that earns a living through selling tickets) :)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

You young fans and casuals don't know how infuriating it is after 20 years of constantly putting up with - "he needs to prove himself in the States," "not a true champion until you fight in the States," "padded record British bums," "needs to fight an American," "America is the only country you get a fair shake," "Americans can't leave home they'll get robbed," "corrupt UK judges/refs," "he's not a real world champion until he fights in the States"...

And the coup de grace, the one thing all these ignorant blowhards always had as a trump card was - "America is where the money is at!!!" Game set and match. It was true, Britain couldn't compete financially with America, so to expect a fighter to travel for a paycut didn't make sense.

However, the minds of jaded, casual and young fans have been so badly polluted with "America is the bestest," that still to this day, even with the economic situation being turned on its head, Britain being the worlds hot bed for tickets sales and TV figures, Brit stars are expected to pander to American fighters. British fans, not just Americans, believe AJ needs to PROVE himself in America, give Wilder all his money, chase, chase, chase a man that offers NOTHING other than he is American. Utterly pathetic.

Hope this helps.

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Not really what I was asking Fenners, I was on about boxing in America on a domestic level as well as the big international stage, look at Haye v Bellew, just a few months back they managed to make a big deal of Burns v Crolla, Jesus we even had Okolie v Chamberlain, do the Americans not enjoy these domestic dust ups or are they only interested in the big fights or do they take place, sell tickets and get put on TV but we don't hear about it?

As you said the trump card was always 'America is where the money is at what has changed, is it just not as popular, are they still hungover from Floyd?

@Batman, The thing is , in the states , the crowds don't come together in their droves for domestic or top fights. It's a culturally different thing. yes, there have been some Stadium fights, but few and far between. Usually with an "Immigrant" fanbase , (Mexican , Puerto Rican) . But for the Major part , the money for the big fights is generated by the TV companies (Like the UK) but Atlantic City or Vegas etc. more than the volume of fans.
This is just my opinion , but it would be better if somebody Stateside could either confirm or shoot down this theory.

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Originally Posted by Batman

I've just been reading about how AJ has sold 230,000 tickets in his last 3 fights compared to Wilders 42,000
We all know that Wilder isn't a huge star in America despite being HW champ and a KO artist but what sort of tickets to Thurman, Crawford and Spence sell?

In the UK we have a fight on TV pretty much every Saturday whether it be on Sky Sports, BoxNation or Sky PPV, Does America have cards on TV that often, over here we get all the big fights from across the pond but do you have domestic fights televised every week that we don't see, what is the promotion like for them, should they be doing more to get peoples interest?

It seems that the UK turn out in their droves for a fair few of our fighters, and boxing in general seems to be gaining more and more popularity over here, as much as I hate to say it credit has to go to Hearn for that, aside from the Sky promotion machine he puts time into building the youngsters up, putting televised cards on of a Friday night just to showcase the 'NXTGEN' fighters, its clever in the sense that he can just chuck some of the kids on a PPV undercard and they are names that people recognize and they won't cost Matchroom the earth to get them on.

At the same time the way they promote absolute meaningless fights like Bellew v Haye, I think that the big wigs in charge realize that the hardened boxing fan won't have a lot of interest but the casuals will eat it up, do American fights get the same sort of promotion or is it only the real big fights that get that sort of treatment?

Is it because America is so much bigger than the UK that people find it harder to throw their support behind American fighters whereas over here we feel that fighters from London to Newcastle are 'our own'

I don't mean for this to become a 'UK v USA' thread, I'm genuinely interested about the promotion and regularity of your fight nights.

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Frankly, I had never seen you write more than 3 sentences before.



Anyway, it's an interesting subject, so I'll add my thoughts.

Boxing popularity in the U.S. is on the decline. Here's a few reasons why:



1. UFC has taken a big bite out of boxing. Let's face it... before UFC it was either boxing or pro wrestling. Not much of a choice, IMO. Now that UFC exists, many fans, particularly younger ones, have gravitated toward that instead of boxing.

2. The U.S. currently lacks marquee stars in the sport. Other than Wilder, there has been a huge void in U.S. heavyweights since the days of Holmes and Tyson. So interest in general has waned, because like I've always said, casual fans only like to see big guys fighting. They couldn't care less about the lighter guys.

3. The few transcendent U.S. stars in boxing as of late have been, let's say..... difficult to rally behind. Think Mayweather, who more people hate than not. Think Ward, who used to fight every other year before he up and beat Kovalev twice.... then retired.

4. U.S. fans tend to lose interest in sports where they are not dominating. Sounds harsh, but it's true. The converse is also true. When they begin to dominate, popularity picks up. Look at curling. Curling's always been viewed as the laughing stock of Winter Olympic sports in the U.S. All of a sudden, the men win the gold, and now it seems curling popularity has picked way up.

5. U.S. boxing has always been a smaller piece of the sports panorama pie than its counterpart in the UK. Meaning that U.S. sports fans have infinitely more sports interests to divvy up its attention. Boxing is seen as a fringe sport. Look up any sports site, and you'll see a dozen links for major sports up on top, followed by the "Other Sports" category. In that category, you'll find boxing.



The UK has always been constant in its support of its boxers, and has suffered through time periods of "drought". So now that the number of champs has increased and the level in general has been upped.... the interest is obviously going to be multiplied.

Everyone is insulting Batman today.

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Originally Posted by Master

Everyone is insulting Batman today.

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Bastards the lot of ya

Boxing in the states in way down on list of important sports. Baseball, American football, and basketball are by far the biggest. Americans like highlights. That’s why football (soccer to us Americans) isn’t as big. It’s looked at as boring. Although it is getting much bigger here and there is becoming a huge niche. UFC is also pretty popular. People talk about it a lot. I have a brother and a cousin who used to watch boxing but have basically quit and only watch UFC now.

The US is huge too and boxing is only popular in specific areas. Like Wilder is from Alabama and that is not a boxing state. Crawford is from Nebraska which is not a boxing state. I never run into boxing fans and I live in a city. It’s just not that popular here. Americans have too many other sports they focus on.

We can fill huge stadiums for professional and college sports. Stadiums of 100,000 but not for boxing. Just doesn’t have the demand.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

Boxing in the states in way down on list of important sports. Baseball, American football, and basketball are by far the biggest. Americans like highlights. That’s why football (soccer to us Americans) isn’t as big. It’s looked at as boring. Although it is getting much bigger here and there is becoming a huge niche. UFC is also pretty popular. People talk about it a lot. I have a brother and a cousin who used to watch boxing but have basically quit and only watch UFC now.

The US is huge too and boxing is only popular in specific areas. Like Wilder is from Alabama and that is not a boxing state. Crawford is from Nebraska which is not a boxing state. I never run into boxing fans and I live in a city. It’s just not that popular here. Americans have too many other sports they focus on.

We can fill huge stadiums for professional and college sports. Stadiums of 100,000 but not for boxing. Just doesn’t have the demand.

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How times have changed....

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Originally Posted by smashup

UK record viewing figures (Millions)

Ali v Frazier 1971 BBC 27.3
McGuigan v Cabrera 1986 BBC 18.3
McGuigan v Pedroza 1985 BBC 18.0
Eubank v Benn 1993 ITV 16.3
Malinga v Eubank 1992 ITV 13.3
Benn v McClellan 1995 ITV 13.1
Rocchigiani v Eubank 1994 ITV 12.3
Eubank v Close 1993 ITV 11.5
Eubank v Thornton 1992 ITV 10.3
Eubank v Holmes 1993 ITV 10.1,
Bruno v Marin 1995 ITV 10.1
Eubank Jr.v all his PPV’s except Groves. 2017/18 ITV. 17 (Not in Millions.)

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Fixed that for you. ;D;D

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Originally Posted by Fenster

You young fans and casuals don't know how infuriating it is after 20 years of constantly putting up with - "he needs to prove himself in the States," "not a true champion until you fight in the States," "padded record British bums," "needs to fight an American," "America is the only country you get a fair shake," "Americans can't leave home they'll get robbed," "corrupt UK judges/refs," "he's not a real world champion until he fights in the States"...

And the coup de grace, the one thing all these ignorant blowhards always had as a trump card was - "America is where the money is at!!!" Game set and match. It was true, Britain couldn't compete financially with America, so to expect a fighter to travel for a paycut didn't make sense.

However, the minds of jaded, casual and young fans have been so badly polluted with "America is the bestest," that still to this day, even with the economic situation being turned on its head, Britain being the worlds hot bed for tickets sales and TV figures, Brit stars are expected to pander to American fighters. British fans, not just Americans, believe AJ needs to PROVE himself in America, give Wilder all his money, chase, chase, chase a man that offers NOTHING other than he is American. Utterly pathetic.

Hope this helps.

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Bloody hell, I am in 100% agreement, America is not a mainline provider of decent fighters any more, only the media hype to bull them up to the rest of the world. Triple G beats any American intermediate, and there are at least 4 Euro heavyweights who would make a mug out of Wilder. They have learned nothing from the Klitscho years. I'm not saying our heavyweights are great, its just that the yanks are currently piss poor because they can make more money playing American football. No wonder Dillyan White is screaming for a fight with Wilder, easy money, but the others are hanging back to get higher dibs in the money game, so its all politics, the top four or five know Wilder is an easy fight, but are trying to work out how two or three of them can have a worthwhile bite, the fact is that he gets spanked by any one of them and disappears and no more money making opportunities for both sides.

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Originally Posted by Batman

I've just been reading about how AJ has sold 230,000 tickets in his last 3 fights compared to Wilders 42,000
We all know that Wilder isn't a huge star in America despite being HW champ and a KO artist but what sort of tickets to Thurman, Crawford and Spence sell?

In the UK we have a fight on TV pretty much every Saturday whether it be on Sky Sports, BoxNation or Sky PPV, Does America have cards on TV that often, over here we get all the big fights from across the pond but do you have domestic fights televised every week that we don't see, what is the promotion like for them, should they be doing more to get peoples interest?

It seems that the UK turn out in their droves for a fair few of our fighters, and boxing in general seems to be gaining more and more popularity over here, as much as I hate to say it credit has to go to Hearn for that, aside from the Sky promotion machine he puts time into building the youngsters up, putting televised cards on of a Friday night just to showcase the 'NXTGEN' fighters, its clever in the sense that he can just chuck some of the kids on a PPV undercard and they are names that people recognize and they won't cost Matchroom the earth to get them on.

At the same time the way they promote absolute meaningless fights like Bellew v Haye, I think that the big wigs in charge realize that the hardened boxing fan won't have a lot of interest but the casuals will eat it up, do American fights get the same sort of promotion or is it only the real big fights that get that sort of treatment?

Is it because America is so much bigger than the UK that people find it harder to throw their support behind American fighters whereas over here we feel that fighters from London to Newcastle are 'our own'

I don't mean for this to become a 'UK v USA' thread, I'm genuinely interested about the promotion and regularity of your fight nights.

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Whilst I agree that the boxing significance of Haye Vs Bellend is insignificant, the media interest is, and brit media is immediately putting the winner up as a 'contender' bloody ridiculous, as much as I am a Haye fan. I guess we've got more interest at the lower end and the yanks only watch the 'top' end which is currently Wilder against some insignificant stiff.

The UK also buy into ridiculous fights like Haye vs Bellew 🤮

Good thread.

UFC must be stealing a bit of the US market.

USA must be 30-40 times bigger than the UK and should have a much better stranglehold on the boxing community..perhaps it’s just about quality rather than quantity.

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Originally Posted by imp

Good thread.

UFC must be stealing a bit of the US market.

USA must be 30-40 times bigger than the UK and should have a much better stranglehold on the boxing community..perhaps it’s just about quality rather than quantity.

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The US just have way more popular sports. The US has some good fighters but many more people care about UFC.

The thread starts on a false premise. That nobody knows Wilder. This is people falling for Eddie's tricks. Amazing people fall for this.

For example, one 430k watched Joshua vs Parker.(average) That is the prime time showing. The afternoon showing had less. The next afternoon had less still.

Where as Wilder vs Ortiz averaged 1.1 million. Wilder consistently has the best numbers in the states.

So don't fall for Eddie's tricks.

Like others have said Boxing falls under "other sports" here. Every Saturday my local University packs more than 110,000 in for a football game. There are 118 such Division I universities. There is also Division II, III, NAIA. There is pro football. There is pro basketball, college basketball, and on And on. America is one big distraction so the people don't notice how quickly the country crumbles around them. And we don't support by nationality. I would say about 1/3 of my boxing fandom an American was my favorite.

Add in that boxing can't be seen in a stadium. Frankly anyone going to a stadium fight is going to enjoy the atmosphere, not watch a fight.

The reasons can go On and On why a stadium fight in U.S.
is an awful idea

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

The thread starts on a false premise. That nobody knows Wilder. This is people falling for Eddie's tricks. Amazing people fall for this.

For example, one 430k watched Joshua vs Parker.(average) That is the prime time showing. The afternoon showing had less. The next afternoon had less still.

Where as Wilder vs Ortiz averaged 1.1 million. Wilder consistently has the best numbers in the states.

So don't fall for Eddie's tricks.

Like others have said Boxing falls under "other sports" here. Every Saturday my local University packs more than 110,000 in for a football game. There are 118 such Division I universities. There is also Division II, III, NAIA. There is pro football. There is pro basketball, college basketball, and on And on. America is one big distraction so the people don't notice how quickly the country crumbles around them. And we don't support by nationality. I would say about 1/3 of my boxing fandom an American was my favorite.

Add in that boxing can't be seen in a stadium. Frankly anyone going to a stadium fight is going to enjoy the atmosphere, not watch a fight.

The reasons can go On and On why a stadium fight in U.S.
is an awful idea

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I agree with your comments on Stadium fights . But you have to admit that :
1. Joshua getting 430k viewers as a foreign boxer compared to Wilder’s 1.1 million is more impressive. For example when Wilder is shown in the UK, he wouldn’t get anywhere 35% of the viewers that Joshua would get.
2. When you do a pro rata calculation based on the population of the US as opposed to the population of the UK , 1.1 million viewers is pretty pathetic for somebody holding one of the most prestigious positions of World Sport, a WORLD Heavyweight Champion.
Furthermore when you consider the rich heritage of US World HW Champions , Louis, Ali, Liston,Frazier, Foreman, Holmes,Tyson, etc.etc. Etc. It’s blatantly obvious that the public just aren’t buying him. Hence, why he has to try to get attention by saying some of the most idiotic things you’ve ever heard in your life, like how “he wants a body on his record” and “I thought I had one when Zpilica went down as he stopped breathing.” He’s a cunt and he should be banned for minimum one year.
Before he said that, I was ok with him, but that is unacceptable.
The Americans are very choosy in their sporting heroes, much more so than the Brits. Americans will only go overboard about someone who is actually the real deal and not just hype. Which is exactly how it should be.
I don’t think that it’s about the volume of sports in the US, I think Boxing is more popular than that. Now if you had given that reason about Michael Johnson or John McEnroe not getting their dues, I would fully accept it , because their sports are minority in the US.

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

The thread starts on a false premise. That nobody knows Wilder. This is people falling for Eddie's tricks. Amazing people fall for this.

For example, one 430k watched Joshua vs Parker.(average) That is the prime time showing. The afternoon showing had less. The next afternoon had less still.

Where as Wilder vs Ortiz averaged 1.1 million. Wilder consistently has the best numbers in the states.

So don't fall for Eddie's tricks.

Like others have said Boxing falls under "other sports" here. Every Saturday my local University packs more than 110,000 in for a football game. There are 118 such Division I universities. There is also Division II, III, NAIA. There is pro football. There is pro basketball, college basketball, and on And on. America is one big distraction so the people don't notice how quickly the country crumbles around them. And we don't support by nationality. I would say about 1/3 of my boxing fandom an American was my favorite.

Add in that boxing can't be seen in a stadium. Frankly anyone going to a stadium fight is going to enjoy the atmosphere, not watch a fight.

The reasons can go On and On why a stadium fight in U.S.
is an awful idea

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I agree with your comments on Stadium fights . But you have to admit that :
1. Joshua getting 430k viewers as a foreign boxer compared to Wilder’s 1.1 million is more impressive. For example when Wilder is shown in the UK, he wouldn’t get anywhere 35% of the viewers that Joshua would get.
2. When you do a pro rata calculation based on the population of the US as opposed to the population of the UK , 1.1 million viewers is pretty pathetic for somebody holding one of the most prestigious positions of World Sport, a WORLD Heavyweight Champion.
Furthermore when you consider the rich heritage of US World HW Champions , Louis, Ali, Liston,Frazier, Foreman, Holmes,Tyson, etc.etc. Etc. It’s blatantly obvious that the public just aren’t buying him. Hence, why he has to try to get attention by saying some of the most idiotic things you’ve ever heard in your life, like how “he wants a body on his record” and “I thought I had one when Zpilica went down as he stopped breathing.” He’s a cunt and he should be banned for minimum one year.
Before he said that, I was ok with him, but that is unacceptable.
The Americans are very choosy in their sporting heroes, much more so than the Brits. Americans will only go overboard about someone who is actually the real deal and not just hype. Which is exactly how it should be.
I don’t think that it’s about the volume of sports in the US, I think Boxing is more popular than that. Now if you had given that reason about Michael Johnson or John McEnroe not getting their dues, I would fully accept it , because their sports are minority in the US.

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I don't think foreign has anything to do with it. Clenelo gets good numbers, Pac got great numbers, Morales, JCC, Tito, can go On and On and on.

I think Americans don't like bigger lumbering athletes. Holyfield was more popular than Bowe who dominated him. Tyson was more popular than Holyfield who dominated him. The more explosive athlete is more popular.


AJ fights more like Klitschko all the time, great for his career but won't draw American fans. Look at Lennox, Americans love winners right, he never caught on, safety first style.

If AJ fought with reckless abandon his numbers would go up. It's a cage fight country now. Very few of us want to see skill.

If UK will take the reigns as the place to fight I say fine. I just hope you all start making the demands we made of fighters here over the years. The softer matchmaking needs to go if you will run the market. And scorecards need to improve.(no offense, I know US had its share of BS cards)

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Originally Posted by Batman

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Originally Posted by Fenster

You young fans and casuals don't know how infuriating it is after 20 years of constantly putting up with - "he needs to prove himself in the States," "not a true champion until you fight in the States," "padded record British bums," "needs to fight an American," "America is the only country you get a fair shake," "Americans can't leave home they'll get robbed," "corrupt UK judges/refs," "he's not a real world champion until he fights in the States"...

And the coup de grace, the one thing all these ignorant blowhards always had as a trump card was - "America is where the money is at!!!" Game set and match. It was true, Britain couldn't compete financially with America, so to expect a fighter to travel for a paycut didn't make sense.

However, the minds of jaded, casual and young fans have been so badly polluted with "America is the bestest," that still to this day, even with the economic situation being turned on its head, Britain being the worlds hot bed for tickets sales and TV figures, Brit stars are expected to pander to American fighters. British fans, not just Americans, believe AJ needs to PROVE himself in America, give Wilder all his money, chase, chase, chase a man that offers NOTHING other than he is American. Utterly pathetic.

Hope this helps.

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Not really what I was asking Fenners, I was on about boxing in America on a domestic level as well as the big international stage, look at Haye v Bellew, just a few months back they managed to make a big deal of Burns v Crolla, Jesus we even had Okolie v Chamberlain, do the Americans not enjoy these domestic dust ups or are they only interested in the big fights or do they take place, sell tickets and get put on TV but we don't hear about it?

As you said the trump card was always 'America is where the money is at what has changed, is it just not as popular, are they still hungover from Floyd?

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Sorry about that, but I can't believe people that visit a boxing forum everyday are surprised to learn British boxing is thriving compared with the US. When I read all the comments slagging off Hearn and domestic cards and what not I just assume everyone knows how promoters/TV companies/sanctioning bodies/commissions etc work (apart from clueless Master).

What changed in America? Nothing. You need to look at what changed in the UK ;)

Plenty has changed in the U.S. regarding boxing. Ali and company used to routinely grace the covers of mags like Sports Illustrated and such. Boxing was a bigger slice of the sports pie in the U.S. Enter UFC, X-Games, and a variety of new-fangled sports aimed at the Millenials.... and the slice of pie shrinks. My earlier point about the U.S. only being interested in sports it dominates still holds. If it can't dominate a sport, it loses interest. Plain and simple. Meanwhile, boxing has always held a special place in the UK. Only difference now is that it's finally getting better after a lot years of mediocrity. That'll tweak the interest of most any country.

Floyd and Pac have been on the cover of Sports Illustrated in recent years.

We have sports called Snooker and Darts that get much more TV viewers than a regular "world" championship boxing night here. Boxing is considered fringe in this country too, compared with Football, Rugby, Cricket, Tennis, Golf, Formula One.

Not all UK "world" champions are big stars or pack out venues, it depends on the fighter and who represents them.

Billy Joe Saunders, for example, is well known by Americans on here yet small fry in Britain, whereas Josh Warrington (yeah, who? Most of the UK fans here wont know him either) has a huge following regularly packing out arenas (20,000+ for upcoming fight).

You said nothing has changed in America. I gave you several reasons why that is simply not true. Pac's and Floyd's covers in SI can hardly be compared to the many times Ali and company made the cover. Also, the coverage in those days was infinitely bigger than it is today. An Ali-Frazier fight might grab 5-7 pages in SI. Boxing in general nowadays barely gets a column, if that much. In terms of what has changed or not changed in America regarding boxing over the years, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I probably have a time and geographical edge on you.

If you claim boxing is "fringe" in the UK also, you're obviously in a more privileged position than I to assess that. The U.S. has golf, tennis, and car racing too. But I'm not using those to make my case for boxing being fringe in the U.S. American football, basketball, baseball, hockey, and the aforementioned UFC and X Games have taken up most of the sports pie. I would venture to say that boxing's percentage of the pie in the U.S. is probably significantly smaller than its percentage in the UK, no matter how "fringe" it may be in the UK.

Boxing was bigger in the U.S. back in the days of Ali and company. Now, you go to any sports web page, and it's relegated to the "Other Sports" category. Let me tell you what's across the top of the MSN sports page in my computer:

NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, NCAA BK, NCAA FB, Golf, NASCAR/Motors, Tennis, Soccer, MMA/UFC, and.......................... More Sports.

Had the Internet been around before, pretty sure Boxing would've had its own category.

I don't disagree with your points, Titofan, I said about the Sports Illustrated thing because batman asked what changed since "Floyd," I agree 100% boxing was far more popular in the 70s and 80s and 90s.

I also agree with your point about America not supporting underdogs, "failures" like small nations do. Britain LOVES a glorious loser/trier. Words like "journeyman" and "bum" have a different connotation in the UK (far less demeaning).

Things like race are a huge factor in America compared with Britain.

Let me tell you whats across the BBC sports page right now - Football, Formula One, Cricket, Rugby U, Rugby L, Tennis, Golf, Athletics, other sports.

I'm not saying boxing is a small sport in the UK, it does great numbers, i'm just offering some balance, as in it competes with plenty of more popular sports, I understand not as much as the US, just like I understand in the UK you can basically drive anywhere in one day whereas that's impossible without a plane in the US.

I just wish boxing interest in the U.S. right now was more like the interest in the UK. As everyone in here, I love boxing and have for a long time. It irks me to see boxing relegated to "curling" status in the U.S. And now that the U.S. won a gold medal in that... it probably moves past boxing in the conga line.... LOL. U.S. fans are a bit frivolous. That bit about them not being interested in any sport they don't dominate is a big one as far as I'm concerned. I was really hoping they'd make it to the World Cup this year, just so the typical U.S. fan would be more interested. Of course there's some like Lyle and myself, who will follow the proceedings no matter what. But many U.S. fans will only watch when the U.S. is playing and has a realistic chance of winning. I find it much more "noble" to maintain interest even when you're not dominating.

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

Just asking on the 800 lb gorilla in the room...but how much has Mayweather being 'the face' of American boxing until recently helped or hurt the sports popularity here. I've never heard a single casual I come across say a good thing about him, matches or style. Not once. Also sports in the U.S are very regional and run deep. Even High School football in some States is treated like a religion. Also boxing takes an attention span and patience to see a guy bare out of not, an established following per individual or favorite. There was certainly a time when fighters abroad 'needed' to crash the shores to make a massive breakout in the sport but mass media changes have a lot to do with it. After mid 90's the gates flew wide open as far as international exposure and communications and lots of business could be done from comforts of home.

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

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Boom big part of the problem here. It's like boxing has been hidden behind a paywall for so long only us diehards will drop the 60 to 100 on a fight. These bullshit judges don't help much.

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

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But on another thread, you encourage ppv for a $100 million fight .

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

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But on another thread, you encourage ppv for a $100 million fight .

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I do not encourage it. I hate the business model which has killed boxing from mainstream tv by your mates Sky and Eddie.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

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But on another thread, you encourage ppv for a $100 million fight .

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I do not encourage it. I hate the business model which has killed boxing from mainstream tv by your mates Sky and Eddie.

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“ hold out for forty million”! Is that not encouraging ppv, cos he won’t get that on BBC!!! Eddie never invented ppv, I think you’ll find the concept came from the U.S. and then the Brits raped it.
Are you gonna Close every KFC & McDonalds down as well?

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

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But on another thread, you encourage ppv for a $100 million fight .

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I do not encourage it. I hate the business model which has killed boxing from mainstream tv by your mates Sky and Eddie.

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“ hold out for forty million”! Is that not encouraging ppv, cos he won’t get that on BBC!!! Eddie never invented ppv, I think you’ll find the concept came from the U.S. and then the Brits raped it.
Are you gonna Close every KFC & McDonalds down as well?

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I would be well up for closing every KFC and McDonalds, even without free to air boxing ;D

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

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But on another thread, you encourage ppv for a $100 million fight .

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I do not encourage it. I hate the business model which has killed boxing from mainstream tv by your mates Sky and Eddie.

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“ hold out for forty million”! Is that not encouraging ppv, cos he won’t get that on BBC!!! Eddie never invented ppv, I think you’ll find the concept came from the U.S. and then the Brits raped it.
Are you gonna Close every KFC & McDonalds down as well?

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I would be well up for closing every KFC and McDonalds, even without free to air boxing ;D

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I knew I set myself up for that, I just thought Master would’ve beaten you to it.;)

No one in the U.K. has the money that Floyd Mayweather has. You have give people something to see. Plus Sky sports do a outstanding job at promoting fights.