Why can't American fighters sell the same amount of tickets as UK fighters?

[imp]

Good thread.

UFC must be stealing a bit of the US market.

USA must be 30-40 times bigger than the UK and should have a much better stranglehold on the boxing community..perhaps it’s just about quality rather than quantity.

[powerpuncher]

Good thread.

UFC must be stealing a bit of the US market.

USA must be 30-40 times bigger than the UK and should have a much better stranglehold on the boxing community..perhaps it’s just about quality rather than quantity.

The US just have way more popular sports. The US has some good fighters but many more people care about UFC.

[Ron Swanson]

The thread starts on a false premise. That nobody knows Wilder. This is people falling for Eddie's tricks. Amazing people fall for this.

For example, one 430k watched Joshua vs Parker.(average) That is the prime time showing. The afternoon showing had less. The next afternoon had less still.

Where as Wilder vs Ortiz averaged 1.1 million. Wilder consistently has the best numbers in the states.

So don't fall for Eddie's tricks.

Like others have said Boxing falls under "other sports" here. Every Saturday my local University packs more than 110,000 in for a football game. There are 118 such Division I universities. There is also Division II, III, NAIA. There is pro football. There is pro basketball, college basketball, and on And on. America is one big distraction so the people don't notice how quickly the country crumbles around them. And we don't support by nationality. I would say about 1/3 of my boxing fandom an American was my favorite.

Add in that boxing can't be seen in a stadium. Frankly anyone going to a stadium fight is going to enjoy the atmosphere, not watch a fight.

The reasons can go On and On why a stadium fight in U.S.
is an awful idea

[Primo Carnera]

The thread starts on a false premise. That nobody knows Wilder. This is people falling for Eddie's tricks. Amazing people fall for this.

For example, one 430k watched Joshua vs Parker.(average) That is the prime time showing. The afternoon showing had less. The next afternoon had less still.

Where as Wilder vs Ortiz averaged 1.1 million. Wilder consistently has the best numbers in the states.

So don't fall for Eddie's tricks.

Like others have said Boxing falls under "other sports" here. Every Saturday my local University packs more than 110,000 in for a football game. There are 118 such Division I universities. There is also Division II, III, NAIA. There is pro football. There is pro basketball, college basketball, and on And on. America is one big distraction so the people don't notice how quickly the country crumbles around them. And we don't support by nationality. I would say about 1/3 of my boxing fandom an American was my favorite.

Add in that boxing can't be seen in a stadium. Frankly anyone going to a stadium fight is going to enjoy the atmosphere, not watch a fight.

The reasons can go On and On why a stadium fight in U.S.
is an awful idea

I agree with your comments on Stadium fights . But you have to admit that :
1. Joshua getting 430k viewers as a foreign boxer compared to Wilder’s 1.1 million is more impressive. For example when Wilder is shown in the UK, he wouldn’t get anywhere 35% of the viewers that Joshua would get.
2. When you do a pro rata calculation based on the population of the US as opposed to the population of the UK , 1.1 million viewers is pretty pathetic for somebody holding one of the most prestigious positions of World Sport, a WORLD Heavyweight Champion.
Furthermore when you consider the rich heritage of US World HW Champions , Louis, Ali, Liston,Frazier, Foreman, Holmes,Tyson, etc.etc. Etc. It’s blatantly obvious that the public just aren’t buying him. Hence, why he has to try to get attention by saying some of the most idiotic things you’ve ever heard in your life, like how “he wants a body on his record” and “I thought I had one when Zpilica went down as he stopped breathing.” He’s a cunt and he should be banned for minimum one year.
Before he said that, I was ok with him, but that is unacceptable.
The Americans are very choosy in their sporting heroes, much more so than the Brits. Americans will only go overboard about someone who is actually the real deal and not just hype. Which is exactly how it should be.
I don’t think that it’s about the volume of sports in the US, I think Boxing is more popular than that. Now if you had given that reason about Michael Johnson or John McEnroe not getting their dues, I would fully accept it , because their sports are minority in the US.

[Ron Swanson]

The thread starts on a false premise. That nobody knows Wilder. This is people falling for Eddie's tricks. Amazing people fall for this.

For example, one 430k watched Joshua vs Parker.(average) That is the prime time showing. The afternoon showing had less. The next afternoon had less still.

Where as Wilder vs Ortiz averaged 1.1 million. Wilder consistently has the best numbers in the states.

So don't fall for Eddie's tricks.

Like others have said Boxing falls under "other sports" here. Every Saturday my local University packs more than 110,000 in for a football game. There are 118 such Division I universities. There is also Division II, III, NAIA. There is pro football. There is pro basketball, college basketball, and on And on. America is one big distraction so the people don't notice how quickly the country crumbles around them. And we don't support by nationality. I would say about 1/3 of my boxing fandom an American was my favorite.

Add in that boxing can't be seen in a stadium. Frankly anyone going to a stadium fight is going to enjoy the atmosphere, not watch a fight.

The reasons can go On and On why a stadium fight in U.S.
is an awful idea

I agree with your comments on Stadium fights . But you have to admit that :
1. Joshua getting 430k viewers as a foreign boxer compared to Wilder’s 1.1 million is more impressive. For example when Wilder is shown in the UK, he wouldn’t get anywhere 35% of the viewers that Joshua would get.
2. When you do a pro rata calculation based on the population of the US as opposed to the population of the UK , 1.1 million viewers is pretty pathetic for somebody holding one of the most prestigious positions of World Sport, a WORLD Heavyweight Champion.
Furthermore when you consider the rich heritage of US World HW Champions , Louis, Ali, Liston,Frazier, Foreman, Holmes,Tyson, etc.etc. Etc. It’s blatantly obvious that the public just aren’t buying him. Hence, why he has to try to get attention by saying some of the most idiotic things you’ve ever heard in your life, like how “he wants a body on his record” and “I thought I had one when Zpilica went down as he stopped breathing.” He’s a cunt and he should be banned for minimum one year.
Before he said that, I was ok with him, but that is unacceptable.
The Americans are very choosy in their sporting heroes, much more so than the Brits. Americans will only go overboard about someone who is actually the real deal and not just hype. Which is exactly how it should be.
I don’t think that it’s about the volume of sports in the US, I think Boxing is more popular than that. Now if you had given that reason about Michael Johnson or John McEnroe not getting their dues, I would fully accept it , because their sports are minority in the US.

I don't think foreign has anything to do with it. Clenelo gets good numbers, Pac got great numbers, Morales, JCC, Tito, can go On and On and on.

I think Americans don't like bigger lumbering athletes. Holyfield was more popular than Bowe who dominated him. Tyson was more popular than Holyfield who dominated him. The more explosive athlete is more popular.


AJ fights more like Klitschko all the time, great for his career but won't draw American fans. Look at Lennox, Americans love winners right, he never caught on, safety first style.

If AJ fought with reckless abandon his numbers would go up. It's a cage fight country now. Very few of us want to see skill.

If UK will take the reigns as the place to fight I say fine. I just hope you all start making the demands we made of fighters here over the years. The softer matchmaking needs to go if you will run the market. And scorecards need to improve.(no offense, I know US had its share of BS cards)

[Fenster]

You young fans and casuals don't know how infuriating it is after 20 years of constantly putting up with - "he needs to prove himself in the States," "not a true champion until you fight in the States," "padded record British bums," "needs to fight an American," "America is the only country you get a fair shake," "Americans can't leave home they'll get robbed," "corrupt UK judges/refs," "he's not a real world champion until he fights in the States"...

And the coup de grace, the one thing all these ignorant blowhards always had as a trump card was - "America is where the money is at!!!" Game set and match. It was true, Britain couldn't compete financially with America, so to expect a fighter to travel for a paycut didn't make sense.

However, the minds of jaded, casual and young fans have been so badly polluted with "America is the bestest," that still to this day, even with the economic situation being turned on its head, Britain being the worlds hot bed for tickets sales and TV figures, Brit stars are expected to pander to American fighters. British fans, not just Americans, believe AJ needs to PROVE himself in America, give Wilder all his money, chase, chase, chase a man that offers NOTHING other than he is American. Utterly pathetic.

Hope this helps.

Not really what I was asking Fenners, I was on about boxing in America on a domestic level as well as the big international stage, look at Haye v Bellew, just a few months back they managed to make a big deal of Burns v Crolla, Jesus we even had Okolie v Chamberlain, do the Americans not enjoy these domestic dust ups or are they only interested in the big fights or do they take place, sell tickets and get put on TV but we don't hear about it?

As you said the trump card was always 'America is where the money is at what has changed, is it just not as popular, are they still hungover from Floyd?

Sorry about that, but I can't believe people that visit a boxing forum everyday are surprised to learn British boxing is thriving compared with the US. When I read all the comments slagging off Hearn and domestic cards and what not I just assume everyone knows how promoters/TV companies/sanctioning bodies/commissions etc work (apart from clueless Master).

What changed in America? Nothing. You need to look at what changed in the UK

[TitoFan]

Plenty has changed in the U.S. regarding boxing. Ali and company used to routinely grace the covers of mags like Sports Illustrated and such. Boxing was a bigger slice of the sports pie in the U.S. Enter UFC, X-Games, and a variety of new-fangled sports aimed at the Millenials.... and the slice of pie shrinks. My earlier point about the U.S. only being interested in sports it dominates still holds. If it can't dominate a sport, it loses interest. Plain and simple. Meanwhile, boxing has always held a special place in the UK. Only difference now is that it's finally getting better after a lot years of mediocrity. That'll tweak the interest of most any country.

[Fenster]

Floyd and Pac have been on the cover of Sports Illustrated in recent years.

We have sports called Snooker and Darts that get much more TV viewers than a regular "world" championship boxing night here. Boxing is considered fringe in this country too, compared with Football, Rugby, Cricket, Tennis, Golf, Formula One.

Not all UK "world" champions are big stars or pack out venues, it depends on the fighter and who represents them.

Billy Joe Saunders, for example, is well known by Americans on here yet small fry in Britain, whereas Josh Warrington (yeah, who? Most of the UK fans here wont know him either) has a huge following regularly packing out arenas (20,000+ for upcoming fight).

[TitoFan]

You said nothing has changed in America. I gave you several reasons why that is simply not true. Pac's and Floyd's covers in SI can hardly be compared to the many times Ali and company made the cover. Also, the coverage in those days was infinitely bigger than it is today. An Ali-Frazier fight might grab 5-7 pages in SI. Boxing in general nowadays barely gets a column, if that much. In terms of what has changed or not changed in America regarding boxing over the years, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I probably have a time and geographical edge on you.

If you claim boxing is "fringe" in the UK also, you're obviously in a more privileged position than I to assess that. The U.S. has golf, tennis, and car racing too. But I'm not using those to make my case for boxing being fringe in the U.S. American football, basketball, baseball, hockey, and the aforementioned UFC and X Games have taken up most of the sports pie. I would venture to say that boxing's percentage of the pie in the U.S. is probably significantly smaller than its percentage in the UK, no matter how "fringe" it may be in the UK.

Boxing was bigger in the U.S. back in the days of Ali and company. Now, you go to any sports web page, and it's relegated to the "Other Sports" category. Let me tell you what's across the top of the MSN sports page in my computer:

NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, NCAA BK, NCAA FB, Golf, NASCAR/Motors, Tennis, Soccer, MMA/UFC, and.......................... More Sports.

Had the Internet been around before, pretty sure Boxing would've had its own category.

[Fenster]

I don't disagree with your points, Titofan, I said about the Sports Illustrated thing because batman asked what changed since "Floyd," I agree 100% boxing was far more popular in the 70s and 80s and 90s.

I also agree with your point about America not supporting underdogs, "failures" like small nations do. Britain LOVES a glorious loser/trier. Words like "journeyman" and "bum" have a different connotation in the UK (far less demeaning).

Things like race are a huge factor in America compared with Britain.

Let me tell you whats across the BBC sports page right now - Football, Formula One, Cricket, Rugby U, Rugby L, Tennis, Golf, Athletics, other sports.

I'm not saying boxing is a small sport in the UK, it does great numbers, i'm just offering some balance, as in it competes with plenty of more popular sports, I understand not as much as the US, just like I understand in the UK you can basically drive anywhere in one day whereas that's impossible without a plane in the US.

[TitoFan]

I just wish boxing interest in the U.S. right now was more like the interest in the UK. As everyone in here, I love boxing and have for a long time. It irks me to see boxing relegated to "curling" status in the U.S. And now that the U.S. won a gold medal in that... it probably moves past boxing in the conga line.... LOL. U.S. fans are a bit frivolous. That bit about them not being interested in any sport they don't dominate is a big one as far as I'm concerned. I was really hoping they'd make it to the World Cup this year, just so the typical U.S. fan would be more interested. Of course there's some like Lyle and myself, who will follow the proceedings no matter what. But many U.S. fans will only watch when the U.S. is playing and has a realistic chance of winning. I find it much more "noble" to maintain interest even when you're not dominating.

[Master]

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

[Spicoli]

Just asking on the 800 lb gorilla in the room...but how much has Mayweather being 'the face' of American boxing until recently helped or hurt the sports popularity here. I've never heard a single casual I come across say a good thing about him, matches or style. Not once. Also sports in the U.S are very regional and run deep. Even High School football in some States is treated like a religion. Also boxing takes an attention span and patience to see a guy bare out of not, an established following per individual or favorite. There was certainly a time when fighters abroad 'needed' to crash the shores to make a massive breakout in the sport but mass media changes have a lot to do with it. After mid 90's the gates flew wide open as far as international exposure and communications and lots of business could be done from comforts of home.

[walrus]

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

Boom big part of the problem here. It's like boxing has been hidden behind a paywall for so long only us diehards will drop the 60 to 100 on a fight. These bullshit judges don't help much.

[Primo Carnera]

Boxing has slowly been dying by being obsessed about PPV which has killed boxing as a majority sport and not built the infrastructure to support it with mainstream TV turning its back.

But on another thread, you encourage ppv for a $100 million fight .