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Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
HBO dominated the televised boxing market for decades, but recently decided to no longer televise the sport due to decreasing interest from customers. Where HBO enjoyed once enjoyed a stable of most of the top fighters, in recent years it watched that stable reduce to Canelo, GGG, Danny Jacobs, and some smaller weight fighters. While many will point to rival Showtime’s superior business model and talent, as well as Floyd’s departure from HBO to join Showtime as the main reasons, I feel that Roy shares some of the blame as well.
Roy was a phenomenal fighter, an ATG, and a good/smart businessman. Remember that prior to Roy ascending to the top p4p spot you had fighters like Hagler, Chavez, Meldrick Taylor, James Toney, Whitaker, Holyfield, and Tyson taking on top notch competition. Even while Roy was on top you had fighters like Oscar, Shane Mosley, and Fernando Vargas doing the same. After dominating Toney, Roy changed from fighting the best and focused more on minimizing risk while maximizing reward.
Fans initially supported Roy because he was such a dominant and amazing fighter. Potential super fights against Benn, Collins, Liles, And Eubank never came to fruition at 168. Roy unified at 175, but super fights with his most dangerous rival, lineal champ Darius McZlewski, and potential fights with Jirov and Douglas were left to the imagination as well. Roy, and HBO, eventually suffered a “Roycott” that hurt their bottom line, but did result with Roy facing legitimate threats in Ruiz and Tarver.
Where I think Roy shares some blame is that he was the first to put business ahead of what the fans and the suits wanted (a good thing for Roy). I don’t blame Roy at all for that, as the sport has left many great fighters worse off after their careers ended. My point is that Roy changed the way the game was played on HBO and they never adapted, which let Showtime steal their position by creating a superior business model.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
The title blames Roy Jones but upon reading the thread he get partial blame for killing HBO.
I do not blame Roy, he had long since retired before HBO slowly started disinvesting in boxing and watched their boxing ship sink by all its competitors.
No one is to blame but HBO themselves. If they were interested and motivated they could easily compete. Unfortunately they are not.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Rewriting boxing history to fit a personal bias, see it every single day.
A more plausible argument if you want to cast blame is GofT. HBO has had wild success with created content.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
RJJ didn't kill boxing on HBO
He was a prodigy, he fought great fighters in his era, he toyed with great fighters in his era, he won titles from middleweight up to a heavyweight title (and he could have done so earlier against Buster Douglas instead of Ruiz which he had planned on but wow Prime RJJ at heavyweight vs Evander Holyfield WHAAAAAAAT would have been crazy). At light heavyweight he ruled supreme and was untouchable until he came back down from heavyweight and from there his career sucks.
He missed some big fights, but hell half that wasn't his fault...Benn, Collins, Eubank...I don't think they wanted him. To some those fighters were more concerned with success in the UK rather than worldwide success. Ottke didn't fight outside of Germany, Michalczewski wanted the fight in Europe, Calzaghe wanted to fight in England, and for whatever reason he didn't even dip a toe in the cruiserweight division...Jirov, Toney II. He never got to fight Gerald McClellan who was injured or Watson who was injured.
Could RJJ have had those bigger fights...yeah I guess, but hell I can look at anyone's record and see where names are missing.
What killed boxing on HBO wasn't Roy at all it was a lack of star power (not great or good or fun to watch fighters, but true STARS), promoters, the rapid rise of UFC and their guerrilla promoting style, and the cards as a whole sucked whereas UFC has worked to build good cards first and superstars second. Boxing doesn't have the stars so now we focus on the cards or we should...and it ain't that other fighters shouldn't be stars like right damn now, but it's that boxing drags behind the time and fans wait until a boxer is finished to lavish them with praise and honors....it's screwy that way.
Also Max Kellerman is a douchebag....where's my old school boxing announcers? Papa, Bernstein, hell I'd take Larry fucking Merchant over Max Kellerman (and I was a dude calling for Kellerman to replace Merchant!!!!).....man how wrong I was. Max Kellerman is just God awful at calling a fight now...I dont' know if ESPN has got to him or Lampley has or what but holy shit he sucks now.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
RJJ didn't kill boxing on HBO
He was a prodigy, he fought great fighters in his era, he toyed with great fighters in his era, he won titles from middleweight up to a heavyweight title (and he could have done so earlier against Buster Douglas instead of Ruiz which he had planned on but wow Prime RJJ at heavyweight vs Evander Holyfield WHAAAAAAAT would have been crazy). At light heavyweight he ruled supreme and was untouchable until he came back down from heavyweight and from there his career sucks.
He missed some big fights, but hell half that wasn't his fault...Benn, Collins, Eubank...I don't think they wanted him. To some those fighters were more concerned with success in the UK rather than worldwide success. Ottke didn't fight outside of Germany, Michalczewski wanted the fight in Europe, Calzaghe wanted to fight in England, and for whatever reason he didn't even dip a toe in the cruiserweight division...Jirov, Toney II. He never got to fight Gerald McClellan who was injured or Watson who was injured.
Could RJJ have had those bigger fights...yeah I guess, but hell I can look at anyone's record and see where names are missing.
What killed boxing on HBO wasn't Roy at all it was a lack of star power (not great or good or fun to watch fighters, but true STARS), promoters, the rapid rise of UFC and their guerrilla promoting style, and the cards as a whole sucked whereas UFC has worked to build good cards first and superstars second. Boxing doesn't have the stars so now we focus on the cards or we should...and it ain't that other fighters shouldn't be stars like right damn now, but it's that boxing drags behind the time and fans wait until a boxer is finished to lavish them with praise and honors....it's screwy that way.
Also Max Kellerman is a douchebag....where's my old school boxing announcers? Papa, Bernstein, hell I'd take Larry fucking Merchant over Max Kellerman (and I was a dude calling for Kellerman to replace Merchant!!!!).....man how wrong I was. Max Kellerman is just God awful at calling a fight now...I dont' know if ESPN has got to him or Lampley has or what but holy shit he sucks now.
Kellerman is a douche. IMO Steve farhoud on showtime is quite good but they only utilize him for scores
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
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Originally Posted by
walrus
Kellerman is a douche. IMO Steve farhoud on showtime is quite good but they only utilize him for scores
Farhoud is solid!
Hell look and listen to Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan or whoever else they have....they hardly ever bash fighters or a fight, they talk strategy, they don't pick a side and cheer, they call/called it pretty straight....where is that in boxing? Is there nobody that does that.
Tessitore is great about that, Teddy Atlas is a classic color commentator HE gives the opinions, he breaks down the strategy, Tessy calls the match and asks some digging questions to Teddy, they do great. Teddy could work on his analogies, but he's better than anyone HBO has.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
What killed boxing on hbo was that they didn't have the stamina to keep scouting. They had previous looked for young up and coming talent (bojado, ricardo williams) to fill their ranks later on and they just stopped and just started renting themselves to big fights for guaranteed money. A couple of events I would link this too:
The departure of ross greenburg to showtime after 33 years. Hes probably someone responsible for the groundwork that showtimes operating on now.
The wane of the heavyweight division and the onset of fighters trying to win Olympic style fights. When stuff started getting boring is around the same time that HBO refused to pay fighters to televise boring fights/styles. The Klitchskos, Ward and Rigondeaux are people i remember being particularly boring.
And the aforementioned rise of homegrown programming
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
i think about how HBO conducted business during its heyday, and remember the business model being elite fighters signed to exclusive, long term contracts. It worked when you had a sweet pea Whitaker who moves up to 140 after cleaning out 135 and white washing the #2 fighter (Pineda), before moving up again to face #3 p4p McGirt to force #1 p4p Chavez to fight him. It works when Oscar fights Sweet Pea, Ike Quartey, Tito, Mosley, Vargas...etc., and his “easy” fights are against Miguel Angel Garcia, David Kamau, and Oba Carr.
That model broke when Roy was signed to a long contract and didn’t fight his topped perceived threats after James Toney until the Tarver fight. This is not to say Roy was solely to blame, or even wrong for his mindset and business savvy. This is just to point out the different perspective Roy brought and how that changed the game with how fighters viewed the risk of fighting consistent top notch competition.
As for some of the comments on bias and Roy fighting and toying with great comletition: get a grip. Some facts about Roy:
1. He never completely unified any division he was in (Darius was lineal champ and they never even fought).
2. The only p4p ranked fighter Roy ever beat (while they were ranked p4p) was Toney.
3. Roy is the only elite fighter I can remember who was boycotted for fighting sub par opposition. This isnt me being biased, this boycott was orchestrated by a number of fans who felt as a collective that Roy was ducking Benn, Eubank, Collins, Liles, Nunn, Darius, Graciano, Jirov...etc.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Shit I blame Vladimir more than Roy. It used to be the heavyweights who turned on casual fans but clinchko turned everyone off.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
i think about how HBO conducted business during its heyday, and remember the business model being elite fighters signed to exclusive, long term contracts. It worked when you had a sweet pea Whitaker who moves up to 140 after cleaning out 135 and white washing the #2 fighter (Pineda), before moving up again to face #3 p4p McGirt to force #1 p4p Chavez to fight him. It works when Oscar fights Sweet Pea, Ike Quartey, Tito, Mosley, Vargas...etc., and his “easy” fights are against Miguel Angel Garcia, David Kamau, and Oba Carr.
That model broke when Roy was signed to a long contract and didn’t fight his topped perceived threats after James Toney until the Tarver fight. This is not to say Roy was solely to blame, or even wrong for his mindset and business savvy. This is just to point out the different perspective Roy brought and how that changed the game with how fighters viewed the risk of fighting consistent top notch competition.
As for some of the comments on bias and Roy fighting and toying with great comletition: get a grip. Some facts about Roy:
1. He never completely unified any division he was in (Darius was lineal champ and they never even fought).
2. The only p4p ranked fighter Roy ever beat (while they were ranked p4p) was Toney.
3. Roy is the only elite fighter I can remember who was boycotted for fighting sub par opposition. This isnt me being biased, this boycott was orchestrated by a number of fans who felt as a collective that Roy was ducking Benn, Eubank, Collins, Liles, Nunn, Darius, Graciano, Jirov...etc.
So it’s Roy’s fault fans are stupid? Who cares what P4P rankings say, BHop was great long before people knew it. He was great when Roy fought him, regardless of ignorance.
Roy never said he wouldn’t fight his subordinates, he said he needed to be paid accordingly. Everyone should have been chasing Roy, anyone that wasn’t desperate to fight the top guy is at fault. The guy in the lead doesn’t chase those behind him.
Lots of people hate Roy because he was so damn good. They invent nonsense like saying BHop was better because he was good longer, it’s gibberish because he was never as good. That’s how you tell how good someone is, by how good they are. Jirov, Jirov, we’re really talking about Jirov hahahaha
Roy Jones is the most talented fighter any of us has ever seen live, by FAR. Appreciate it
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
How would Roy singlehandedly have had so much as a role in it? He disappeared from the upper echelon of the sport 15 years ago... HBO has had plenty of top fighters and shown plenty of top cards since then, but they were slowly phasing boxing out for ages. I don’t know how theyre doing overall, but as was said they’ve always had far more lucrative programming.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Roy Jones has been a fine commentator/analyst. I always appreciated his insights.
Max Kellerman is awful though. I'm sure he's one of the reasons for HBO boxing's demise, he's so fake and disingenuous - he turned a lot of people off.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Losing Greenburg to the rival was massive and the inundation of so many forms of competition followed. I think partially hbo got to full of themselves and fans helped them do it thinking it was THE only platform of star potential and massive fights. In fairness it was to a degree but they lost their way when they started thinking they knew what was best for fans by effectively black balling top caliber fighters. Remember when they tried using Ed Lover to host a KO hbo brand or something? That certainly didn't help them. They had a bad run of trying to microwave potential phenoms to star class as mentioned. Bojado, Williams, and even Vargas to a degree and at the end were trying the same failed process with the likes of a Cletis Seldin and calling him a Mike Tyson ffs. Roy Jones was given a red carpet and at the time had the largest contract they had ever afforded and they shipped in one to many rotating 'mandatories' all in the name of Roy covering himself in a layer of belts. Hyping the whole two sports schtick and rolling him out literally on a Broadway stage and allowing middleweights like Otis Grant to be butchered for the lt heavyweight title. I don't blame him completely as he just milked the cow that was given to him but still fans fell for what were some guaranteed mismatches and just yelled greatness. In hindsight you get the feeling the writing was on the wall for hbo for some time but they kept plugging along riding a ghost ship and went out meek.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
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Originally Posted by
p4pking
How would Roy singlehandedly have had so much as a role in it? He disappeared from the upper echelon of the sport 15 years ago... HBO has had plenty of top fighters and shown plenty of top cards since then, but they were slowly phasing boxing out for ages. I don’t know how theyre doing overall, but as was said they’ve always had far more lucrative programming.
Yeah I'm gonna agree with that. HBO Boxing was too big at its peak to be "killed off" by any one commentator, analyst, etc. HBO bigwigs said it themselves. They just felt boxing wasn't the attraction it used to be. So they moved on. I likened them to the girl at the bar who will leave with whoever has the nicest car and I still feel that way. It's a cold business, with no room for melancholy. To me, some marketing gurus up there must've whispered in the executives' ears that extreme sports, documentaries, and whatever else HBO is into now... that's where it's at.
IMO, blame lies with boxing itself, and also the fans to an extent. Boxing has done itself no favors with shitty decisions, questionable treatment of cheaters in boxing, favoritism, and other issues. Fans are by large a fickle bunch with a "what have you done for me lately" mentality. Unfortunately we can't have 3-4 mega fights a year like in the golden days. Maybe it's because we don't have the star power boxers we used to have.... maybe it's because promoters are a greedy bunch of bastards sucking the blood out of boxing while the boxing fans turn away... who knows.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
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Originally Posted by
Freedom
Roy Jones has been a fine commentator/analyst. I always appreciated his insights.
Max Kellerman is awful though. I'm sure he's one of the reasons for HBO boxing's demise, he's so fake and disingenuous - he turned a lot of people off.
I’m the opposite. I actually don’t mind Kellerman. He has some annoying things about him, but I don’t mind him. Roy was insufferable as a commentator. Extremely biased and always seemed to want to argue. Couldn’t stand him. I really hope no one picks him up.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Roy Jones is one of the greatest fighters of all time
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
i think about how HBO conducted business during its heyday, and remember the business model being elite fighters signed to exclusive, long term contracts. It worked when you had a sweet pea Whitaker who moves up to 140 after cleaning out 135 and white washing the #2 fighter (Pineda), before moving up again to face #3 p4p McGirt to force #1 p4p Chavez to fight him. It works when Oscar fights Sweet Pea, Ike Quartey, Tito, Mosley, Vargas...etc., and his “easy” fights are against Miguel Angel Garcia, David Kamau, and Oba Carr.
That model broke when Roy was signed to a long contract and didn’t fight his topped perceived threats after James Toney until the Tarver fight. This is not to say Roy was solely to blame, or even wrong for his mindset and business savvy. This is just to point out the different perspective Roy brought and how that changed the game with how fighters viewed the risk of fighting consistent top notch competition.
As for some of the comments on bias and Roy fighting and toying with great comletition: get a grip. Some facts about Roy:
1. He never completely unified any division he was in (Darius was lineal champ and they never even fought).
2. The only p4p ranked fighter Roy ever beat (while they were ranked p4p) was Toney.
3. Roy is the only elite fighter I can remember who was boycotted for fighting sub par opposition. This isnt me being biased, this boycott was orchestrated by a number of fans who felt as a collective that Roy was ducking Benn, Eubank, Collins, Liles, Nunn, Darius, Graciano, Jirov...etc.
So it’s Roy’s fault fans are stupid? Who cares what P4P rankings say, BHop was great long before people knew it. He was great when Roy fought him, regardless of ignorance.
Roy never said he wouldn’t fight his subordinates, he said he needed to be paid accordingly. Everyone should have been chasing Roy, anyone that wasn’t desperate to fight the top guy is at fault. The guy in the lead doesn’t chase those behind him.
Lots of people hate Roy because he was so damn good. They invent nonsense like saying BHop was better because he was good longer, it’s gibberish because he was never as good. That’s how you tell how good someone is, by how good they are. Jirov, Jirov, we’re really talking about Jirov hahahaha
Roy Jones is the most talented fighter any of us has ever seen live, by FAR. Appreciate it
Are fans “stupid” because they want to see competitive fights??? As for what p4p rankings say, it isn’t that people “care” as much as it is a way to gauge who the top fighters are at the the time. P4P rankings show top fighters in the sport at the time of the rankings- you may disagree with the order/placement, but there is no denying they are among the best in the sport.
The point was someone like Oscar fought Tito, Quartey, Sweet Pea, Moseley...etc., while they were in there prime and at their best (p4p ranked high at the time). Mosley fought Oscar, Winky, Floyd, and Margarito. Holyfield fought Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, Moorer...etc. BHop fought Tito, Winky, Tarver, Pavlik...etc., while they were ranked p4p. Roy fought Toney. Regardless of whose fault it was in your opinion, or should’ve chased who in your opinion...etc., the fact remains that you will be hard pressed to find another elite fighter who fought as weak competition during their prime years.
As for me “hating” Roy, you lose all credibility when I say he was an amazing fighter and talent, as well as an ATG and your response is that I hate him. You lose more credibility when you make your point about BHop not being considered better than Roy. Both guys were great in their own ways, and who you prefer is just that: personal preference. Valid cases can be made for both, however, and anyone who can’t see or admit that is irrationally biased.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
How would Roy singlehandedly have had so much as a role in it? He disappeared from the upper echelon of the sport 15 years ago... HBO has had plenty of top fighters and shown plenty of top cards since then, but they were slowly phasing boxing out for ages. I don’t know how theyre doing overall, but as was said they’ve always had far more lucrative programming.
Master was correct in his initial post/observation that my title asks if Roy killed boxing on HBO, but my post asks if Roy added to HBO boxing’s demise. My son would call that “click bait” (I think), but I really was only trying to keep the title short (not misrepresent). For the record, I think everyone has been correct in their observations of additional factors of the demise.
The point is that Roy changed the approach of fighters from fighting to get the long term contract on HBO, and then fighting the best like the suits wanted to fighting the best to get the contract and then minimizing risk by fighting inferior competition for as long as possible. Floyd used a similar strategy of minimizing risk (both in opponent selection and during the fight), but in my opinion Floyd was better at the game and fought better competition overall. This isn’t to say I think either guy was wrong, or not great, or scared...etc., just that both put money over what the fans wanted to see.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Floyd is the bigger killer, how TV executives overpaid for the primadonna I do not know.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
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Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is the bigger killer, how TV executives overpaid for the primadonna I do not know.
I’m torn over Floyd. Some days I agree with you 100% because I think of the Manny fight and some of the times Floyd played it safe and didn’t get the stoppage when he could have. Other days I think his brand, his character (Money May)/schtick, and events like the Connor fight brought boxing to another level. I love the guy’s skill in the ring, his intelligence (very street smart), and the fact that he had the courage to believe in himself, buy his contract out from Arum and make himself the success he is. It’s hard for me to tell what is just an act and how much is actually him being a douche.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
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Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Floyd is the bigger killer, how TV executives overpaid for the primadonna I do not know.
I’m torn over Floyd. Some days I agree with you 100% because I think of the Manny fight and some of the times Floyd played it safe and didn’t get the stoppage when he could have. Other days I think his brand, his character (Money May)/schtick, and events like the Connor fight brought boxing to another level. I love the guy’s skill in the ring, his intelligence (very street smart), and the fact that he had the courage to believe in himself, buy his contract out from Arum and make himself the success he is. It’s hard for me to tell what is just an act and how much is actually him being a douche.
Fair enough but I think he is more douche bag than pioneer.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
I agree with master. Floyd Mayweather Jr completely destroyed the sport of boxing
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
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Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Roy Jones is one of the greatest fighters of all time
I don’t disagree with you on this. I think he is the most gifted ever, even more than Meldrick Taylor, Ali, and Floyd. I also agree with most that if he had fought all of the others considered his biggest threats he would’ve won almost all of them (everyone has style issues n bad days) and had the potential to surpass Ray Robinson as the GOAT. He didn’t accomplish those things however and that is the larger point of this post.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Roy Jones is one of the greatest fighters of all time
I don’t disagree with you on this. I think he is the most gifted ever, even more than Meldrick Taylor, Ali, and Floyd. I also agree with most that if he had fought all of the others considered his biggest threats he would’ve won almost all of them (everyone has style issues n bad days) and had the potential to surpass Ray Robinson as the GOAT. He didn’t accomplish those things however and that is the larger point of this post.
I do agree with you that he did not accomplish those things.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Roy didn't do anything to HBO. HBO did in HBO with not reigning in LARRY MERCHANT when he dissed Floyd Mayweather and Mayweather had already had in mind to bolt to Showtime and carry all of Al Haymon's talent/stars with him. That was the beginning of the end. Merchant had been on Floyd's ass for nearly two years calling him boring and not watchable, breaking down the man's marketability. Merchant should have been reprimanded before it got that far- He did it to RJJ too and Lampley began to jump in on it for a while too.
Arum and King could not carry HBO up against a lineup like that. King was already out of the business, effectively, about that time and he never exclusively workd with HBO over Showtime anyway. Arum has a good stable, but you need more than just Manny Pac to carry a network.
All of this, and while I like Jim Lampley, he involves himself with the fighters so much and turns it into a sob-fest and that turns off hardcore, blood and guts guys who want CARNAGE and BLOODLAYS and NEAR FATAL ASSAULTS...
Gatta give it to Mauro Ronallo, he makes a brutal beatdown look exciting even though he is kinda like a cunt about it. ESPN is just doing what it can, but I submit, there is NO WAY ESPN or Fox Sports should be having TOP TIER boxing lineups with multiple titles on the line and HBO has NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT!!!
In the day, a Crawford fight of that magnitude could have only have been PPV. But HBO lost it's marketing prowess along the line somewhere- Right now a cuntish-feminist is in charge of the sports packaging or some cuck of a batty-boy who thinks contact sports should be replaced with soccer or tennis. Cunts!
Merchant should have just sat there and shut his yap and let Floyd be. Shortly after that run in on air with Mayweather where he said he would kick Mayweather's ass, he too was no longer on the air- as well he should have been fired for being a bias asshole.
Also, what Merchant's old ass did not seem to factor in while he was talking SHIT: Showtime, owned by CBS, had just gotten that (and was planning around that) 2013 SuperBowl money to help finance a Floyd multi-fight deal with what it was. SuperBowl 2013 broke records in TV revenue as well as put millions of dollars in side-revenue into CBS's pockets by promoting New Orleans.
Once CBS had that SuperBowl money counted for and counted out, Floyd did what every employee wished they could do when working for a cuntish boss: BITCH, FUCK YOUR JOB! I QUIT! ... and started his own business!
Mayweather and Manny's fight generated $600 MILLION in revenue for Showtime. The single highest grossing one day sport event until the 2016 Super Bowl and Mayweather MORE than paid back what he got paid for with Showtime and CBS.
And, even though HBO's production and output is FAR SUPERIOR to Showtime, Fox, NBC and ESPN, they forgot the core essence of fight fans an what they want to see.
They can come back: FIRE THE CUNTS IN THE FRONT OFFICE and get someone who knows what side the bread is buttered on.
PS: Kellerman is doing a good job as a boxing analyst, by the way. Lampley needs to retire and pass the reigns over.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Larry Merchant was right about Floyd.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
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Originally Posted by
Master
Larry Merchant was right about Floyd.
He lost money, though. I'm learning this adult thing- Sometimes being right does not mean it will help you!
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
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Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Larry Merchant was right about Floyd.
He lost money, though. I'm learning this adult thing- Sometimes being right does not mean it will help you!
The fights Floyd could STILL have amaze me. The ones he might have don't intrigue me they would be Globetrotters vs Generals exhibition bouts....he could do it too not even hating.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
There was a change in leadership and the new leader didn't see boxing as a priority.
In late 2014, arly 15, HBO was invested in a series focusing on boxing. Specifically on the comeback, from alcoholism, of two former fighters. One had been a world champion, the other had tried twice. Two fighters we're being brought in from out of town to train in LA- a gym in East LA, and at the Wild Card West.
The talk at the time was of a huge commitment to boxing but there was a change in leadership and by August of 15 the whole program was dead. That was the start of the finish.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
RJJ didn't kill boxing on HBOHe was a prodigy, he fought great fighters in his era, he toyed with great fighters in his era, he won titles from middleweight up to a heavyweight title (and he could have done so earlier against Buster Douglas instead of Ruiz which he had planned on but wow Prime RJJ at heavyweight vs Evander Holyfield WHAAAAAAAT would have been crazy). At light heavyweight he ruled supreme and was untouchable until he came back down from heavyweight and from there his career sucks.He missed some big fights, but hell half that wasn't his fault...Benn, Collins, Eubank...I don't think they wanted him. To some those fighters were more concerned with success in the UK rather than worldwide success. Ottke didn't fight outside of Germany, Michalczewski wanted the fight in Europe, Calzaghe wanted to fight in England, and for whatever reason he didn't even dip a toe in the cruiserweight division...Jirov, Toney II. He never got to fight Gerald McClellan who was injured or Watson who was injured.Could RJJ have had those bigger fights...yeah I guess, but hell I can look at anyone's record and see where names are missing.What killed boxing on HBO wasn't Roy at all it was a lack of star power (not great or good or fun to watch fighters, but true STARS), promoters, the rapid rise of UFC and their guerrilla promoting style, and the cards as a whole sucked whereas UFC has worked to build good cards first and superstars second. Boxing doesn't have the stars so now we focus on the cards or we should...and it ain't that other fighters shouldn't be stars like right damn now, but it's that boxing drags behind the time and fans wait until a boxer is finished to lavish them with praise and honors....it's screwy that way.Also Max Kellerman is a douchebag....where's my old school boxing announcers? Papa, Bernstein, hell I'd take Larry fucking Merchant over Max Kellerman (and I was a dude calling for Kellerman to replace Merchant!!!!).....man how wrong I was. Max Kellerman is just God awful at calling a fight now...I dont' know if ESPN has got to him or Lampley has or what but holy shit he sucks now.
Unfortunately, Max is also a libtard these days too.
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Re: Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?
Missed opportunities abound as HBO exits boxing with a whimper
https://s.yimg.com/it/api/res/1.2/B1...01be48906ef983
For 45 years, HBO has been the one constant in a boxing fan’s life. The premium cable network took a while to get rolling after it entered the boxing space by airing the 1973 heavyweight title match between Joe Frazier and George Foreman in Kingston, Jamaica, and it’s kind of chugged to an unnatural death over the last five or so years.
But for 35 of those 45 years, you couldn’t be a boxing fan without a subscription to HBO. It kept the sport alive, when network television turned its back on boxing, and when basic cable channels didn’t have the budget to obtain the rights to mega-fights.
The final episode of HBO’s once-iconic “World Championship Boxing,” franchise will be on Saturday in Atlantic City, when Dmitry Bivol defends the WBA light heavyweight title against Jean Pascal. There will be one more HBO show after Saturday, a “Boxing After Dark” card on Dec. 8, but HBO’s reputation was built on its WCB series, so in many ways, Saturday’s show is the end.
It’s this kind of show — a one-sided mismatch — that has pushed HBO to this point. Bivol is one of boxing’s best young fighters, and has big-time star potential. Instead of showcasing him in a compelling bout that will force him to display his many skills, HBO has green-lighted a long over-the-hill Pascal as the opponent.
Odds range as high as 20-1 in Bivol’s favor. If this was the Bivol of 2018 against the Pascal of, oh, 2010, maybe this would be a date you’d circle on the calendar. Pascal is long past his use-by date and it figures to be an easy win for Bivol.
Instead of this kind of dreck, HBO would have been far better producing a 90-minute, or two-hour, retrospective looking back at the last 45 years. HBO does plan to do a look back on its final show, on Dec. 8, but it won’t be a separate program and won’t go into the depth that it should.
This was an opportunity for HBO to pass the baton in a meaningful way. It’s a no-brainer to show highlights of the hundreds of incredible fights HBO broadcast in its nearly half-century in the boxing business, but it could and should have done so much more.
How about a show that convened experts to look at the state of boxing and assess where it is going? It could have examined what went wrong that led to boxing’s decline, how it has responded to the growth of MMA and what it needs to do in the future to regain some of its lost stature.
It could have dispatched its “Real Sports” team to examine boxer safety, and exposed holes in the system that need to be patched.
Certainly a countdown of, say, the 10 or 25 greatest fights in HBO history would have been merited.
But no, instead of any of that, “World Championship Boxing” goes out with a whimper, with a fight which has little competitive interest and without a nod to a sport that literally helped build the network.
Its final show will get next-to-no ratings. Fight-wise, it will go head-to-head with ESPN’s offering of Vasiliy Lomachenko against Jose Pedraza and UFC 231, which features an incredible main event between Max Holloway and Brian Ortega.
Boxing seems to be on an upswing. Top Rank’s super lightweight title fight last week between champion Maurice Hooker and challenger Alex Saucedo did shockingly well in the ratings. The bout started just before midnight ET, and averaged 950,000 viewers, peaking at just over a million.
In recent years, that’s the kind of bout that would have gotten an audience of maybe a half-million, likely less. Its lead-in was an NBA game between the Milwaukee Bucks and Chicago Bulls, which averaged 1.7 million viewers. But the boxing card maintained more than half its audience despite starting at 11:51 p.m. ET, and it fared well with men 18-49 and 12-34.
It shows there is an appetite for the sport. It needs to be promoted and marketed far better than it has been, but what has become abundantly clear over the last year or so is that A) boxing isn’t simply an old man’s sport; B) fans aren’t inherently turned off by boxing; and C) a compelling match will get, and retain, a considerable audience.
HBO made a business decision to leave the sport, and no one can quarrel with that.
But it owed the many fans who subscribed to the network for years only for its boxing coverage more on its way out the door. It could have put on a far better, more compelling fight, for starters, but it could have used its institutional knowledge of the boxing business and its great team of reporters to dig into where the sport has been, where it is and where it is heading.
Instead, we see up-front why boxing failed on HBO and why it is succeeding at rival Showtime: Showtime has a passion and a commitment to the sport from the top down that is missing at HBO. It’s hard to imagine that if Showtime Sports president Stephen Espinoza were forced to quit airing boxing, he’d try to slip away like a thief in the night instead of doing a grand send-off.
HBO was a boxing fan’s best friend for years — Who can forget Ali-Frazier III, Arguello-Pryor, Barrera-Morales, Leonard-Hearns, Tyson-Douglas and Gatti-Ward? — but its demise is the result of self-inflicted wounds.
P.T. Barnum is alleged to have once said “Always leave them wanting more,” but let’s be honest: HBO is going away because it chose to air bouts like Bivol-Pascal far too often over the last decade. Enough is enough and on Saturday, it will come to a merciful end.
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