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Wilder alleges that he broke his arm 12 weeks before the fight. That is quite an assertion and a broken arm something that requires considerable time to recover from. Why would you not just postpone the fight considering its magnitude? Do you believe him? Should he provide medical proof to back up what he is saying?
Didn’t hear that, any details? Fracture during training? What arm? I’ll look it up see what I seeQuote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
And yes miles, if he says that he should prove it. I’ve broken many bones. What is this surgery thing about? Usually that is about putting in hardware to rejoin to break. Even young and in top physical form that is a big heal and your biggest weapon. if he says this I’d like to see more proof. People had money on the fight, I don’t know if things like this should be hidden
Walrus, there are a few links and comments in the RBR thread in the final page or two. I would get it if he broke a bone in his hand during the fight or something like that, but 12 weeks before a fight sounds a bit ridiculous. And not the hand, but the arm? Is there any photo footage of him around that time? Is he willing to back that up? Absolutely, most who picked Wilder were picking by KO and would have likely had some money on it too. That's a kind of con job if true. I get that you cannot reveal every ache and pain, but with a serious injury you have a responsibility to those watching the fight and yourself to be at your very best.
Meh...... to me it's neither here nor there.
Looking at the type of fight and how he was able to land with full force several times I would kind of agree, but to say you broke your arm 12 weeks before a fight is pretty extreme. It is not quite on Tyson broken back territory, but still rather eyebrow raising.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfLooking at the type of fight and how he was able to land with full force several times I would kind of agree, but to say you broke your arm 12 weeks before a fight is pretty extreme. It is not quite on Tyson broken back territory, but still rather eyebrow raising.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Fighters gonna lie about stuff like that, or at least stretch the truth a whole lot. ;D
With me it's like... if you step into the ring, then you're ready, come what may. Not sure what Wilder is trying to accomplish here... but we've all seen this song and dance from many a fighter after they've lost.
That's why I'd love a rematch, to settle things once and for all. They fought well enough to deserve it.
Honestly still trying to figure if it's supposedly his arm or his hand, he has said both in different interviews :dontknow:. He had surgery after the arreola fight too. For both. It's all very confusing right now. But I bet he stops running around punching Mexican mascots without getting paid at least. Might want to work on proper punching technique.
Boxers lie to make excuses for their poor performances all the time! Remember Manny's shoulder...?
It is the socks I remember more, but hey, I am a dandy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Breaking his arm three months before his training camp started seems very plausible to me and not really any excuse, they went ahead with everything as normal so I don't see why he should prove it. It's a mildly interesting thing to happen but so far before the fight, who cares really. People have various degrees of broken too, I doubt it was a mortal kombat style bone breaker.
No doubt there are several types of breaks. Fractures, even hairline fractures are still breaks. What gets me in the surgery part. That would point to a more severe injury. I’ve broken fingers and didn’t even wear a cast type thing on it. I’d just like him to go into more detail at least. I broke an arm as well, no surgery on that but did have surgery on a broken hand. So three months healing sounds sounds right but in many cases three months wouldn’t put u at 100pQuote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
Show the medical report!
If he wants to say he broke his arm 12 weeks before camp started, whatever. The more important point to me is if he did break his arm, why negotiate for that fight AND the possible AJ fight.
To me , that is conning the public and he should be brought before the authorities to justify that and if they feel he wasn’t 100% , withhold a portion of his purse. He’s such a thick cunt he doesn’t see this.
He is such a desperate wanker. He’s also posted on Social media “PROOF” that it was a long count in the 12th. So there’s a stopwatch showing from the moment Fury hit the canvas, and stops at 10 seconds dead, when Fury is nearly up.
However , the prick forgets that the count doesn’t start till he’s in an neutral corner! So when he’s standing over Fury and doing his funny walk , the ref doesn’t start the count. The guy has shown himself to be a complete fucking dullard.
It's all getting daft and taking a bit of gloss off of what was a fabulous event and fight that was punctuated with one of the greatest moments in heavyweight history.
No one cares that you broke your arm 12 weeks before camp started. If it healed it healed, if it didn't, you still managed to throw possibly the best right hand you've ever thrown in your life in the final round of the fight. Don't be giving us no 'I wasn't 100%' now.
If Wilder needs some turd on Twitter to explain to him the difference between 10 seconds on a stop watch, and a ten second count in a boxing ring then his boxing education needs more tweaking than I initially thought.
I agree he is a dullard but that is not how the count works. The referee instructs the fighter to go to the corner and picks the time up from the time keeper. If it takes him 4 seconds to get Deontay to the corner he starts his at 5 etcetera. But....if he instructs Deontay to his corner, Deontay goes and comes back out of the corner interrupting his count then the count stops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
From the get go I knew the trash talk would fall flat and by the end of things one if not both fighters would have to answer for the result so when faced with an excuse I will sing you the song of my people.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG-qCyYZRms
This guy does more MMA stuff than boxing but if you’re bored and have 25 minutes here’s a breakdown of the fight
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_IPruFOsAU&t=1134s
I understand casual-type fans getting all excited by "long counts" and getting out stopwatches and whatnot but any hardcore/nerd fan knows these are fine line decisions which happen every single week.
A different ref would've waved the fight off instantly when Fury hit the floor, another stopped him from getting up, another stopped it when he got to his feet, another maybe wave the fight after he reached 9.
Not one of those decisions would have been wrong/unjust, it's just Reiss made a "great" call (and had Fury been knocked unconcious Reiss would currently have calls for his head).
The count was great as was not stopping it immediately. My issue was with Fury being given 13 seconds to hug the ref and jog around. It should be 'Are you okay?' 'Yes'. 'Fight'. Should be a couple of seconds rather than the time of another count and a half.
You can’t legislate for every second after a boxer gets back up from being knocked down. There are numerous things that a boxer can do to delay the contest from re-starting which the ref should be aware of to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The main point was Fury got up and fought back hard. The couple of seconds really made no difference.
Too right. It's neither here nor there. Week in week out there are variations. It's not an exact science so no point applying the stopwatch to try to retrospectively make it one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
As it happens, that video that shows 'Fury beat the count' is actually proof that he didn't.
Even hardcore boxing fans often misunderstand. You don't have ten seconds to just about get clear of the floor (other than feet), you get ten seconds to be upright, and addressing the ref ready to fight. So if your legs are still in the process of extending when the count reaches 10, you haven't made it. Even if you are only just totally upright you still haven't made it.
That said, I think its a non-issue. Would say the same either way. What's half a second with what is an inexact process anyway and he was clearly ok to go on by the time he was upright.
The way the ref handled it could have been deemed dangerous. But as has been pointed out there are grey areas and what transpired after showed that the ref handled it appropriately. Wish we could say the same for the judges.
12-13 seconds is a long time AFTER the count has already happened. It should be a nod, arms held in front, and fight. Should be a couple of seconds. If the legs are not there then Fury goes down again. As long as the eyes are clear there is no reason for a jog to test the legs. The count was perfect, the extra time what I deem questionable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou can’t legislate for every second after a boxer gets back up from being knocked down. There are numerous things that a boxer can do to delay the contest from re-starting which the ref should be aware of to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The main point was Fury got up and fought back hard. The couple of seconds really made no difference.
Wilder should never moonwalk either. It is not a game. Go to your corner and pounce as soon as you are ready. He should not be losing focus like that. He should have been thinking immediately about how to land another deadly combo. It's work, not play. Fighters do get up. You would never see a Barrera or Marquez clowning like that. All business.
He followed the california state athletic commission rules to a tee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf12-13 seconds is a long time AFTER the count has already happened. It should be a nod, arms held in front, and fight. Should be a couple of seconds. If the legs are not there then Fury goes down again. As long as the eyes are clear there is no reason for a jog to test the legs. The count was perfect, the extra time what I deem questionable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou can’t legislate for every second after a boxer gets back up from being knocked down. There are numerous things that a boxer can do to delay the contest from re-starting which the ref should be aware of to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The main point was Fury got up and fought back hard. The couple of seconds really made no difference.
Read the rules - https://www.dca.ca.gov/csac/stats_re...ch1a8-10.shtml
It’s nice to have someone responding with FACTS rather than self-fabricated opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHe followed the california state athletic commission rules to a tee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf12-13 seconds is a long time AFTER the count has already happened. It should be a nod, arms held in front, and fight. Should be a couple of seconds. If the legs are not there then Fury goes down again. As long as the eyes are clear there is no reason for a jog to test the legs. The count was perfect, the extra time what I deem questionable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou can’t legislate for every second after a boxer gets back up from being knocked down. There are numerous things that a boxer can do to delay the contest from re-starting which the ref should be aware of to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The main point was Fury got up and fought back hard. The couple of seconds really made no difference.
Read the rules - https://www.dca.ca.gov/csac/stats_re...ch1a8-10.shtml
Shame Wilder doesn't have Don King around to lobby for phony law suits and long counts. King knew how to at least present flimsy outrage and distracting bullshat properly. Fact is..they got up intact and rendered it void and a non issue after all ???. Hindsight being 20-20 sure. If you want to flawlessly count seconds go bake a cake. Just think it's a silly argument.
On the arm if you're going that far out than you can expect to be called on it. Again, it's your own responsibility and professionalism, career and health on the line. Wilder none the less seems pretty injury prone as far as wrists and hands. Hope he heals up properly
Having a read of the California State Athletic Commission rules @Fenster posted I noticed there are some subtle but important differences with the rules of other bodies.
The CSAC rules leave much more room to interpretation about what is 'down' and the counting process generally.
The BBBofC rules, for example, regarding the issue of when the count is beat are quite clear -
3.32.1 In this Regulation 3.32, “down” shall mean one or more of the following:-
(a) when a Boxer falls from the boxing ring beyond the ring apron as a result of a legitimate blow; or
(b) when a Boxer is on one foot or both feet and at the same time any other part of his body is touching the floor of the boxing ring; or
(c) when a Boxer is supported on the ropes of the boxing ring and, in the opinion of the Referee, is unable to defend himself; or
(d) when a Boxer is in the act of rising
and in all of the above cases, a Boxer shall be considered to be down until he has regained his feet within the boxing ring and is in a position and a condition to defend himself.
So when I said earlier that that video actually shows Fury not beating the count, it seems I was applying BBBofC (and others) rules, ie that just being upright by 10 does not mean you beat the count.
If we aren't talking about beating the count, but rather the amount of time taken after the count, the CSAC say "If the boxer who is down arises before the count of ten, the referee shall evaluate his or her ability to continue. If assured that the boxer who has just arisen is fit to continue, the referee shall without loss of time, order both boxers to go on with the contest".
'Without loss of time" there seems ambiguous. But I think most would see the couple of seconds given to assess Fury as being perfectly reasonable.
Either way, I think its a non-issue. It was right that the fight continued.
Fenster, I am not sure you have proven a point there. You have made me read a lot of information and not be particularly convinced that 13 seconds extra time....beyond the count (which was fine)....is fine. It was too long and many have commented on that. A handful of seconds should have sufficed.
Either way, the fight is what it was and a draw is what we have, so I accept that along with the decision. Every fight has something a bit different.
The point is he followed the rules to a tee. I understand you don't agree with the time it took before Wilder was allowed to punch Fury again, you would have loved the old days, brutal, and as @ryanman pointed out under British rules it looks like Fury should have been counted out (I was surprsied he didn't waive it off originally). But all different commissions have slightly different rules, even down to the wrapping of hands and whether or not corners can stop fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Yes, I am a classicist. I am glad they didn't stop it though, that was proper.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe point is he followed the rules to a tee. I understand you don't agree with the time it took before Wilder was allowed to punch Fury again, you would have loved the old days, brutal, and as @ryanman pointed out under British rules it looks like Fury should have been counted out (I was surprsied he didn't waive it off originally). But all different commissions have slightly different rules, even down to the wrapping of hands and whether or not corners can stop fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Wilder should prove to us, round by round, why he felt he deserved a draw against Fury let alone a win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
That tape-session should be interesting!
Thanks for putting me right on the count thing. Now, bearing in mind he broke his arm , do you still believe that his team’s offers to AJ at the time were genuine?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI agree he is a dullard but that is not how the count works. The referee instructs the fighter to go to the corner and picks the time up from the time keeper. If it takes him 4 seconds to get Deontay to the corner he starts his at 5 etcetera. But....if he instructs Deontay to his corner, Deontay goes and comes back out of the corner interrupting his count then the count stops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera