Oliver McCall or Zab Judah...whose lack of discipline has cost them more?

[chinchekked]

Both of these fighters should of had much more heralded careers IMO. Just curious as to who people view as the biggest squanderer of God given ability between the two....and why?

[Fenster]

I don't think either had a "bad" career.

McCall had serious mental problems what with his crack addiction and stuff. I don't think he was that talented. What a chin he had though - inhuman.

Zab was very talented but a mental midget. It's just as important to be strong mentally as physically. He got what he got.

[skel1983]

I don't agree with this lack of discipline shit expecially with Judah, just because he had crazy skills there is alot more to a fighters make up than that, he just didn't have the whole package to make him a great fighter, nothing to do with discipline.

He said for the Cotto fight he was in the best shape of his life and was battered silly by a fighter who is just all round a better fighter plain and simple imo.

[p4pking]

Yeah basically what has been said here so far. You can't really look at either of them as squandered talent, because they were elite fighters for a decent chunk of time. Both guys had some serious demons in one way or another and neither were mentally strong. The fact that they both have a screw or two loose probably lent to their success in the ring as much as it detracted from it in a way, you really can't overstate how imporant a fighters mentality is during training or the fight itself.

[JonnyFolds]

The rumors of Zab Judah squandering his money, out all night in Vegas and under training have been one after another throughout his career. There has to be some truth to this. He is a wealth of talent, and could have gone down as one of the best ever. His 2nd worst decision was having his father in his corner for all those fights. He could have used a good tactician to teach him how to deal with different fighters better, and to keep it together down the stretch.
And, don't give me the Cotto/Judah fight as a reference. Judah took 3 horrific low blows in that fight that were just ungodly. Cotto should have never been allowed to fight that way without consequence. And Judah almost had him down/out of there at a couple points in the fight. One, being right before Cotto punched him square in the nuts-suck

I don't really get Oliver McCall. He was just huge powerful and obviously in incredible shape for fights. But I just didn't watch enough of him to know what the deal was. The guy has been in the ring with everyone, and is a dangerous fight for anyone even at 40+yrs.

I have to go with Judah by way of ignorance to McCall's career.

[luvfightgame]

The rumors of Zab Judah squandering his money, out all night in Vegas and under training have been one after another throughout his career. There has to be some truth to this. He is a wealth of talent, and could have gone down as one of the best ever. His 2nd worst decision was having his father in his corner for all those fights. He could have used a good tactician to teach him how to deal with different fighters better, and to keep it together down the stretch.
And, don't give me the Cotto/Judah fight as a reference. Judah took 3 horrific low blows in that fight that were just ungodly. Cotto should have never been allowed to fight that way without consequence. And Judah almost had him down/out of there at a couple points in the fight. One, being right before Cotto punched him square in the nuts-suck

I don't really get Oliver McCall. He was just huge powerful and obviously in incredible shape for fights. But I just didn't watch enough of him to know what the deal was. The guy has been in the ring with everyone, and is a dangerous fight for anyone even at 40+yrs.

I have to go with Judah by way of ignorance to McCall's career.

You mean sound effects and demonstrating how to punch your opponent isn't effective? I think the worst punishment in the world would be to have to sit behind the Judah family at a movie theater watching a scary/action movie

[Mar]

I gotta disagree, zab is a big waste of his potential. I don't see anything in zab's record that shows any type of greatness. He beat witter and since has really not beaten anyone of major significance. Most of his hype was based on potential, not what he's actually done in the ring. It's a huge mixture of dicipline and focus that is his problem.

[Spicoli]

Interesting pairing and I really see them like a man/ boy contrast. While Judah is far more naturally gifted he's always been the choreographed runner up talking the loudest but saying the least. Fell victim to his own hype and when the chips were down he faulterd mentally and physically. Peel away the shine and really....his biggest conquests were...Ward (who basically had two careers) Witter and Spinks, cough.*

McCall was just what you see is what you get. With one glaring exception I'm not sure he has had mental lapses in action,though the drugs would suggest otherwise and may have help him see his way through those punches. He was always very strong, durable and as much a threat at the end of a fight as in the beginning.*

[skel1983]

I gotta disagree, zab is a big waste of his potential. I don't see anything in zab's record that shows any type of greatness. He beat witter and since has really not beaten anyone of major significance. Most of his hype was based on potential, not what he's actually done in the ring. It's a huge mixture of dicipline and focus that is his problem.

Bingo.

[skel1983]

The rumors of Zab Judah squandering his money, out all night in Vegas and under training have been one after another throughout his career. There has to be some truth to this. He is a wealth of talent, and could have gone down as one of the best ever. His 2nd worst decision was having his father in his corner for all those fights. He could have used a good tactician to teach him how to deal with different fighters better, and to keep it together down the stretch.
And, don't give me the Cotto/Judah fight as a reference. Judah took 3 horrific low blows in that fight that were just ungodly. Cotto should have never been allowed to fight that way without consequence. And Judah almost had him down/out of there at a couple points in the fight. One, being right before Cotto punched him square in the nuts-suck

I don't really get Oliver McCall. He was just huge powerful and obviously in incredible shape for fights. But I just didn't watch enough of him to know what the deal was. The guy has been in the ring with everyone, and is a dangerous fight for anyone even at 40+yrs.

I have to go with Judah by way of ignorance to McCall's career.

Well how about we take every single fight he has had since 2005 of any significance? We have these threads about Judah all the time they are pathetic in truth his mental game is part of his make up end of story he has shown time and time again he is just not good enough over 12 rounds at the top level no disgrace with that but it's a fact.

We could sit all day and pick at certain fighters attributes and say imagine if fighter A had a chin or fighter B had stamina etc etc.

[chinchekked]

The rumors of Zab Judah squandering his money, out all night in Vegas and under training have been one after another throughout his career. There has to be some truth to this. He is a wealth of talent, and could have gone down as one of the best ever. His 2nd worst decision was having his father in his corner for all those fights. He could have used a good tactician to teach him how to deal with different fighters better, and to keep it together down the stretch.
And, don't give me the Cotto/Judah fight as a reference. Judah took 3 horrific low blows in that fight that were just ungodly. Cotto should have never been allowed to fight that way without consequence. And Judah almost had him down/out of there at a couple points in the fight. One, being right before Cotto punched him square in the nuts-suck

I don't really get Oliver McCall. He was just huge powerful and obviously in incredible shape for fights. But I just didn't watch enough of him to know what the deal was. The guy has been in the ring with everyone, and is a dangerous fight for anyone even at 40+yrs.

I have to go with Judah by way of ignorance to McCall's career.

Well how about we take every single fight he has had since 2005 of any significance? We have these threads about Judah all the time they are pathetic in truth his mental game is part of his make up end of story he has shown time and time again he is just not good enough over 12 rounds at the top level no disgrace with that but it's a fact.

We could sit all day and pick at certain fighters attributes and say imagine if fighter A had a chin or fighter B had stamina etc etc.

First of all this thread was not created to defend Judah by any stretch......I am not a fan! I was just curious as to how a man with so much God given ability not have been even better. It was a lack of discipline for sure along with not being mentally tough when it counted. Also I am one who thinks Judah should have kept his butt at junior welter(Clottey and Cotto were too strong). My point was how could someone with rare talent not put an all out effort to get their stuff together and attack his shortcomings. I will admit I thought of McCall as a comparison because I happen to look at the two Lewis fights again recently and u can't help but scratch your head after the second fight and think ....WTH.

[chinchekked]

I don't think either had a "bad" career.

McCall had serious mental problems what with his crack addiction and stuff. I don't think he was that talented. What a chin he had though - inhuman.

Zab was very talented but a mental midget. It's just as important to be strong mentally as physically. He got what he got.

Not saying they had bad careers, just saying that without the BS that both could have been easily better.

[Hulk]

Judah has/had wayyy more talent than McCall, so I would have to say that Judah wasted his talent more.

Still he was JW and WW champion of the world. And may grab a title at JW yet again.

And he went tit for tat with Floyd Mayweather for the first 8 rounds or so of their fight as well as dropping Mayweather and not gettin credit for it.

So not too shabby...

I think McCall aside from the second Lennox fight, really made the most of what God gave him.

Which is a huge physique, a GREAT chin, and some pretty good power.

[JonesJrMayweather]

ZAB....

If Zab had the right teaching with his talent he easily could have been undefeated on the night that he faced Floyd and would have stood a very serious chance in beating him...

He could have easily beaten KT, Spinks, Baldomir, clottey, cotto...

[ElTerribleMorales]

ZAB....

If Zab had the right teaching with his talent he easily could have been undefeated on the night that he faced Floyd and would have stood a very serious chance in beating him...

He could have easily beaten KT, Spinks, Baldomir, clottey, cotto...

Judah has no one to blame but himself, he lost due to his lack of focus and for being weak mentally not because he wasn't taught how to use his talent, and i don't think he ever would have EASILY beaten Clottey, Tszyu, or Cotto