From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?

[brocktonblockbust]

I count 5 fights so far....2 glaring examples are the 2nd Frazier fight and the 2nd Spinks fight and I only just STARTED reviewing the tapes. This Octopus shoulda been DQ'ed several times to say the least for flagrant, excessive, rampant grabbing and holding on for dear life. I can't even get through the first 3 rounds of the Spinks rematch, I keep stopping the film and tallying up the fouls, the neck pushing-down, the neck grabbing.

If this guy had to fight toe-to-toe he'd a got KO'ed by half of his opponents after 1971, and he KNEW it, thus the Octopus tactics.

[Dark Lord Al]

I personally dont think Clay was the greatest , he held far to much and i dont care for his jab move, holding, hands down style.
He was a terrific fighter for sure , but im not a fan of his personally.

[jahmez]

Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. It's not his fault he got away with it and looking at him now its probably a good thing he did.

[AdamGB]

You're assuming that he wouldn't have done something different if he was being penalised for it.

[jahmez]

That's true but I guess we'll never know... I've got a dvd of Ali-Frazier 2 where Ferdie Pacheco is commentating in hindsight and he mentions that the holding and applying of weight on the back of Joe's neck was something they worked on over and over in training. Surely Frazier's camp would have brought it up but it's funny how certain fighters consistently get away with things. Awestruck, pressure from promoters/teams and/or kickbacks? Has there been a case where its been proven that a big name name fighter has colluded with a ref?

[beenKOed]

Ali was allowed to cheat and he took full advantage. I blame Ali, he was the one doing the holding.
The man had no honor, I guess.

[Beanflicker]

Ali held soooo goddamn much (he stunk out the joint vs Frazier in the 2nd fight... who the hell has a boring fight with Frazier??).

Ali had a lot of great moments in the sport and beat a lot of real killers, but IMO if you look at his career as a whole, he was more boring in the ring than the Klitschko's.

[Vendettos]

Ali held soooo goddamn much (he stunk out the joint vs Frazier in the 2nd fight... who the hell has a boring fight with Frazier??).

Ali had a lot of great moments in the sport and beat a lot of real killers, but IMO if you look at his career as a whole, he was more boring in the ring than the Klitschko's.

I never find VKs fights boring.

Do you think this forum would exist if Ali wasn't the big name he was? Just curious.

I think he was the reason I ever knew about boxing as a child.

I personally think he was good at winning fights he probably shouldn't have, he won by any means.

[greynotsoold]

Eddie Futch complained loud and long about Ali's tactics on many occasions. There was quite a bit of turmoil over this, and over the referee named to work the fight in Manila. The thing about is, Ali kept saying he was the greatest, and people- even referees and commentators that should have remained neutral- bought into it. It alternately cracks me up/pisses me off when you talk to somebody who knows nothing of boxing, never watches the fights, can't tell a left hook from a straight right, but they are sure that Ali is the greatest of all time. And treat you like you're stupid if you disagree.

[El Kabong]

At his very best vs Cleveland Williams he was like a big Roy Jones Jr....at his worst he was like John Ruiz.

Joe Louis was the Greatest Heavyweight of All-Time, he fought the same way with the same style from when he started to when he retired and he dominated his era. If you were a boxer "You could run but you couldn't hide", if you were a slugger he'd beat you to the punch, & he knew his range better than any fighter I've ever seen.

[X]

I'm with Lyle on this one ..... Joe Louis was the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. A fighting machine who was so far ahead of his time in the way he fought. Cleaned out the division three times over, never ducked anyone. A fighter's fighter.

[El Kabong]

Eddie Futch complained loud and long about Ali's tactics on many occasions. There was quite a bit of turmoil over this, and over the referee named to work the fight in Manila. The thing about is, Ali kept saying he was the greatest, and people- even referees and commentators that should have remained neutral- bought into it. It alternately cracks me up/pisses me off when you talk to somebody who knows nothing of boxing, never watches the fights, can't tell a left hook from a straight right, but they are sure that Ali is the greatest of all time. And treat you like you're stupid if you disagree.

I remember HBO doing a special on Ali-Frazier and Bryant Gumbel said something to the effect of "When Frazier won, you got the feeling that the bad guy won"......




Who calls Joe Frazier "the bad guy"...everyone put their emotions in with Ali which is why he gets a pass for everything he ever did. From calling The Beatles "fags", to calling other black boxers "Uncle Toms", and calling Joe Frazier a "gorilla". Muhammad Ali was a hateful prick, a great fighter...no doubt he won a lot, but he got away with more hateful bullshit than any other fighter in the history of the game....ooooh but I should feel sorry for him because the punches caught up to him in a big way, yeah I don't think so. He can feel the pain he put Joe Frazier through for the rest of his life

[beenKOed]

Ali held soooo goddamn much (he stunk out the joint vs Frazier in the 2nd fight... who the hell has a boring fight with Frazier??).

Ali had a lot of great moments in the sport and beat a lot of real killers, but IMO if you look at his career as a whole, he was more boring in the ring than the Klitschko's.

I never find VKs fights boring.

Do you think this forum would exist if Ali wasn't the big name he was? Just curious.

I think he was the reason I ever knew about boxing as a child.

I personally think he was good at winning fights he probably shouldn't have, he won by any means.

Jesus H. Christ! I hope you don't actually think Ali is bigger than boxing.
Boxing would be different (better IMO) if Ali never existed, but it would still be doing fine.
Yes, this forum would be here if Ali never existed, the Internet is bigger than Ali and boxing. IMO

[Tyke72]

I certainly agree that Joe Louis was the greatest heavyweight , their is a wonderful article on Cox's Corner website where he goes into detail on the mans skills.Someone asked how he'd have coped with modern heavies. The answer is simple, he'd have wiped the floor with 'em

[El Kabong]

I certainly agree that Joe Louis was the greatest heavyweight , their is a wonderful article on Cox's Corner website where he goes into detail on the mans skills.Someone asked how he'd have coped with modern heavies. The answer is simple, he'd have wiped the floor with 'em

I think Louis had a timeless style. Sure guys these days could ATTEMPT to run from him, but slow down for 1 second and he'd make you pay dearly! Huge power, good fast hands.....he was deceptively fast with his hands because he knew his range and threw bombs with confidence.