So why did JMM fight Chris John for 30k instead of Pac for 750k in '05?

[generalbulldog]

PSL,

WTF do you mean by saying pacquiao "is running the show now"? when did the mythical p4p list become a world title? i think pacquiao and his fans are taking this p4p ranking a little too literal and serious! when hopkins was p4p 1, or when others were number one p4p, you didn't hear them say they're running the show now. and so what if he's no.1 of the "p4p world title", fans could give a fuck about that. they just want to see good fights not some prima donna bragging that "he's in control now", bullshit.

PSL wasn't or anyone in this thread was talking about p4p titles or being p4p no. 1. And it's true Pacquiao is running the show now. As in negotiations for fights and conditions will be in his favor and on his terms. That's pretty much "running the show." The other guy that has that kind of power in the boxing game is Mayweather. They are the 2 faces of boxing right at this moment. They have the leverage to dictate terms to other opponents they face.

That's how it is in the game. De la Hoya ran the show when he was around as did Leonard before him and so did Ray Robinson before him also. Whoever has the leverage will use it. Boxing is a business and that's how business works. The same also applies to politics and war.

[OumaFan]

LOL of course Pacquaio is running the show. He's a bigger draw than JMM and that's all that matters. Bigger draw than Hopkins ever was too fwiw.

[Violent Demise]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Very interesting. Not calling you a liar, but do you have any links to confirm that JMM was lowball in the rematch?

Me saying it should be fucking good enough. But here you go. Read it all. You'll see a third party with nothing to do with this confirm it.

Why Marquez-Pacquiao 2 didn't happen

[fan johnny]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

[generalbulldog]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Very interesting. Not calling you a liar, but do you have any links to confirm that JMM was lowball in the rematch?

Me saying it should be fucking good enough. But here you go. Read it all. You'll see a third party with nothing to do with this confirm it.

Why Marquez-Pacquiao 2 didn't happen

Thanks for the link. Sure shed some light on the situation.

LOL of course Pacquaio is running the show. He's a bigger draw than JMM and that's all that matters. Bigger draw than Hopkins ever was too fwiw.

Yeah I thought it was funny that milmascaras would argue Pac running the show. That's how it is with the bigger draw and the guy with leverage.

[Violent Demise]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

[UKPH]

VD no doubt that Beristein is not a good Manager then a Trainer, they could beat Pacquiao for the second time, and it could stop the Pac express if they were really confident to beat this guy they should accept the P750K rather going to Chris Johns turf and losing.

remember prior to Pac-Marquez I, Marquez cant even get a $650K purse without Pacquiao even with his 2 championpionship belts, he defeated Medina and Gainer still on that time Marquez is virtually unknown than Barrera and Morales, Team Marques should take the 750k.

[Hornfinger]

i think the weight will be the main stumbling block in why this fight doesn't happen. Pac will insist 147, Marquez will want 140 or lower.

I personallty think the fight should be at 140.

I would expact pac to win even though I am a marquez fan. Jaun has been in a lot of wars and is getting older.

I think the fight could happen but to make it happen I think Jaun will have to agree to pacquiao's terms which will make the fight unfair in Pac's favour. But why would that surprise anyone?

[Fenster]

The moral of the story here kids, is that if you have a big opportunity in any field of business you're in, capitalize on it, never let opportunities slip by.

It still boggles my mind that instead of a 750k payday and fighting on neutral ground in the US, Marquez took a 30k one in a fighter's backyard.

Don't forget Beristain turned down a half-million career high payday to face Naz (you can find all the details/facts in my "ridiculous" Naz-Marquez thread. Hope this helps )

He's had a reputation as a shit manager for ages.

[Fenster]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Very interesting. Not calling you a liar, but do you have any links to confirm that JMM was lowball in the rematch?

Me saying it should be fucking good enough. But here you go. Read it all. You'll see a third party with nothing to do with this confirm it.

Why Marquez-Pacquiao 2 didn't happen

That don't explain away Beristain's idiotic managment. Even Gary Shaw is subtely calling him an idiot there.

Shaw agrees with Arum that going to Indonesia was something akin to managerial malpractice.

"I was mortified that they would go over there," he says. "First of all, with no representation, and I was mortified that they would go over there for $30,000. I wouldn't have chased the belt or given up the belt, whatever the case may be."

[fan johnny]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

The "They", is the crap Bernstain is trying to sell which comes from Marquez' Promoter. Shaw was just trying to get Marquez pants. Since Marquez wouldn't fight Pacquiao, Arum was trying to get Marquez to fight Morales. But the fools went off on their own to Indonesia and would still have lost without point deductions. The negotiation failure was all on Marquez and really had little to do with Pacquiao.

[milmascaras1]

who gives a fuck who is "running the show". pacquiao uses this "running the show" crap to get unfair advantages at catchweights. this is bullshit and most of you pactards know it!!! all pacquiao is, is a prima donna who has to have advantages over his opponents. by the way, when has he ever faced a younger, fast, in his prime boxer? he's slowly beginning to get recognized as a damn fraud along with freddie roach and bob arum. deceiving the public with these fantastic wins over weight drained fighters but won't fight fighters like marquez, alexander, bradley or other fast, young fighters.

[:::PSL:::]

who gives a fuck who is "running the show". pacquiao uses this "running the show" crap to get unfair advantages at catchweights. this is bullshit and most of you pactards know it!!! all pacquiao is, is a prima donna who has to have advantages over his opponents. by the way, when has he ever faced a younger, fast, in his prime boxer? he's slowly beginning to get recognized as a damn fraud along with freddie roach and bob arum. deceiving the public with these fantastic wins over weight drained fighters but won't fight fighters like marquez, alexander, bradley or other fast, young fighters.

Seems to me Juanita is giving a fuck about it. If Pacquiao says "bow down and beg like a lil' bitch that you are", Juanita will do it in a heartbeat. Yes, right now, he is that desperate. And the other thing, Manny won a flyweight championship for christ sake. I'm sure his larger opponents wouldn't mind climbing down a pound or two for multi-million dollar deal ey?

Common sense compadre.

[Violent Demise]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

The "They", is the crap Bernstain is trying to sell which comes from Marquez' Promoter. Shaw was just trying to get Marquez pants. Since Marquez wouldn't fight Pacquiao, Arum was trying to get Marquez to fight Morales. But the fools went off on their own to Indonesia and would still have lost without point deductions. The negotiation failure was all on Marquez dd really had little to do with Pacquiao.

Nacho is known as an honorable man. He does not bullshit around. His words carry more weight than Mr. Yesterday I was lying today Im telling the truth Bob Arum. Only a fool takes Arums word as truth. The man lies so much its damn near language to him. Facts are very clear in this matter. Basking in the glow of a great fight which was Marquez-Pacquiao 1. Arum HBO and the Marquez camp quickly agreed to a rematch where both fighters would get 1.2 million. It was than that the Pacquiao people approached Arum and told him he didnt wish to fight Marquez again so quickly. He instead wanted to face Erik Morales who was coming off a loss in his 3rd fight with Barrera and who many believe was on the decline. Thats when Arum went back on his word and low balled Marquez. Knowing that the proud Marquez was not gonna let himself be lied to and would most likely decline. Which he did.

[KananKrus]

To find out why JMM fought Chris John offshore in Indonesia for 30K rather than fight Pac for 750K after the first fight, one would be better off going straight to the horse's mouth.

Checking out the post fight interview gives you an insight unto the minds of the horses themselves! (pardon the pun) The interview is the one Larry Merchant conducted for both fighters... and with little imagination, you get a real feel for emotions that goes with the responses that both Pac and JMM were saying regarding a rematch right after their brutal encounter.

Anyone a bit techie (I am not one) or maybe PacStraightLeft, can provide for a viewable version... perhaps

The video tho' that I have viewed was an HBO telecast included in a Filipino broadcast/ABS CBN and had bits with Chino Trinidad in it.

Both men then had interpreters with them handling their responses for the HBO telecast. I zoomed in to the bit were both men were asked about their willingness for a rematch. Pac and JMM both said yes to a rematch but it is in the verbiage where the telltale is.


It goes as follows...

Pac VS JMM Post Fight Interviews

Larry Merchant to Pacquiao: You were supposed to fight Erik Morales if you won this fight, since it’s a draw, do you want to do a rematch?

Manny Pacquiao through an interpreter: There should really be a rematch! so they will know who really is the best between the two of us, who really is the winner between the two of us!

Larry Merchant to Marquez: Do you want a rematch?

Juan Manuel Marquez through an interpreter: Yes. I don’t feel I need a rematch, because I feel I won this fight! But if we need to do it again, I feel I want it, let’s do it!

Curiously, it was JMM who actually said that he did not need a rematch since he felt he'd already won it, while Pac on the other hand was itching to get it on again, just to establish once and for all who really won the fight. At that moment, (IMO), he felt that he was robbed of a win, and he was not alone with that thought, Harold Lederman, providing HBO's unofficial scorecard, had Pacquiao winning, seven rounds to five, 115-110.

Draw your own conclusion, as to mine... my impression is that one was angry (Pac), while the other one was relieved (JMM).